What Laws are still valid to christians

HeRoseFromTheDead · Oct 10, 2013

All you had to say is 'no, I don't believe that.' But once again you have avoided being direct and clear.

I think it would be edifying for all of us to hear from you that you don't believe a man is justified or saved by works of law. Can you do that?

HeRoseFromTheDead · Oct 10, 2013

Hizikyah said:

The bible says that if we believe in Christ we have already received eternal life, and have passed from death into life.

just-me · Oct 10, 2013

Hizikyah said:

I believe NONE will have eternal life unless Yahweh gives it to them, not even debateable in my mind.

Of course recieveing eternal life from Yahweh is conditional. Yahweh has set a criteria to enter HIS kingdom, entrance is not gained by what I choose, its gained but HIS criteria only.

It is summed up here.

Revelation 14:12, "In this manner are the saints purified--by keeping the Laws of Yahweh, in conformity with the faith in Yahshua Messiah."

If you disagree with this you disagree with the Creator of all that is.

...........

Works only = dead

Faith only = dead

Faith + works = alive

Yaaqob 2:26, "For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so the faith without works is dead also."

The seed of satan fights against those who keep Yahweh's Laws and have the faith in Yahshua:

Revelation 12:17, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went to make war with those who forsook her seed; her seed being those who keep the Laws of Yahweh, and have the testimony of Yahshua Messiah."

Well said. It looks like that is Bible to me. It's good to read the Word of God with clarity, and purpose.

Hizikyah · Oct 10, 2013

HeRoseFromTheDead said:

Originally Posted by Hizikyah

My brother I do not believe any man is justified by works, ...

Hoffco · Oct 10, 2013

LOL., "fish a wife"??? how is that done, ah, maybe, fish for a wife, LOL. that's better, but what I meant was to put a "," after fish, marry a wife,"take a sister with us." as Paul put it. But, back too the important error here, No one wants to agree with James 2:24 "You see then that a man is justified by works , and not by faith only." If you would "seriously" read my posts, you would see the Bible teaching that "only the righteous are saved". It is a good thing thing ,you are not in my church, you would leave real Quick, We would not be able to work together. LOL, We are all free to serve God the way we want to and the Judgment seat of Christ will take care of the rewards for "faithful" service. God will judge us all according to our "works"; Sorry, but alot of people are not going to make it to eternal life. Only those who trust and obey will be there. Take head to yourself lest you lose your reward of eternal life. Love to all, Hoffco

Hizikyah · Oct 10, 2013

Hoffco said:

Yaaqob 2:26, "For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so the faith without works is dead also."

Yaaqob 2:24, "You see then that a man is also justified by works, and not by faith alone."

Yes, but lets go back 2 more verses:

Yaaqob 2:22, "Do you see that the faith worked together with his works, and by works the faith makes perfect?"

Elin · Oct 10, 2013

cfultz3 said:

No problem. . .

It means a principle (law) that consistently operates.

My sinful nature (law, principle) consistently operates toward sin, despite the desire to do what is right, "law of sin" at work. (Ro 7:23)

Because of the new birth, I consistently desire to obey God completely, "law of my mind" at work.
(Ro 7:23)

My sinful nature (flesh) consistently resists my desire to obey God, "law of my members (flesh)" at work. (Ro 7:23)

The practice of sin consistently operates toward death, "law of sin and death" at work. (Ro 8:2)

Justification is by faith alone, "law of faith" at work. (Ro 3:27)

Belief in the gospel into which one looks with delight in its teachings, which belief consistently operates toward liberty from sin, "law of liberty" at work. (Jas 1:25)

The establishment of the Aaronic earthly priesthood, in contrast to the establishment of Christ's eternal priesthood in the order of Melchizedek, both Priest and King, "law of a carnal (fleshly) commandment," in contrast to divinity of Christ's priesthood.

Josh321 · Oct 10, 2013

want to know what faith and works truly means? look at what abraham did he showed he had faith by doing the works, what work was that? he said me an 5 And Abraham said unto his young men, Abide ye here with the ass; and I and the lad will go yonder and worship, and come again to you.6 And Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering, and laid it upon Isaac his son; and he took the fire in his hand, and a knife; and they went both of them together.
7 And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?
8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.
[h=3]Genesis 22:5-8[/h]
do you see that? that is faith and works right there, he had faith that when he got there God will provide a burnt offering for him and he did the work of his faith by carrying out what he was told to do, that is faith and works right there

john832 · Oct 10, 2013

eternally-gratefull said:

You know what I believe here...

2Co 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

And who receives the gift of the Holy Spirit?

Act 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Elin · Oct 10, 2013

Hoffco said:

That's man's thinking, not God's.

According to the NT, you've got that in reverse.

Justification is by faith alone (Ro 3:27-28).

There is no sanctification without faith, ergo, faith precedes sanctification.

According to the NT, it's

faith--->justification--->sanctification, as the result of faith and justification, not the cause.

john832 · Oct 10, 2013

HeRoseFromTheDead said:

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Josh321 · Oct 10, 2013

john832 said:

but something has to happen to tell you that you are doing the right thing and your going down the right path, i might be wrong but i believe to truly accept him we gotta make our heart empty( clean the way for him ) what i mean by this, i'm not to sure if it's true or not but when i had confess all the wrong i did to my mom my heart felt empty and needed something else to fill it, i believe that we gotta clean our hearts first say that we were wrong in whatever we did or that thing will still have a hold on you

cfultz3 · Oct 10, 2013

Elin said:

Thank you for taking the time to explain to me privately.

I must now agree with you.

The Law of Sin states that according to our fallen nature, we naturally sin.
The Law of my Mind states that if we were to die to the flesh, our soul would desire to obey God.
The Law of my Members states that I desire to please my flesh.
The Law of Sin and Death states, "The day that you eat from it, you surely will die".

I hope I finally understand

eternally-gratefull · Oct 10, 2013

Hizikyah said:

Ok, I can agree with you here. God has to be the one who gives eternal life.

Ok. So what you just did is prove that HeRoseFromTheDead was correct. When he said you beieve one is saved by the works of the law.

On the contrary my friend, jesus himself gave the criteria.

John 3: 16. Whoever believes HAS (already been given) Eternal life.
John 6. Whoever believes in me HAS (already been given) eternal life. He also states they will never die, Be ressurected by Him, Will live forever etc etc.

So on the contrary my friend. To say one has to obey to be saved, is preaching law. And deny's the very words Jesus gave to us himself.

You just misinterpreted what James said, and made him contradict paul. If this is true, The whole of scripture is false. because scripture can not contradict itself.

James did not say faith alone is dead. Did you even read what he said,. He said FAITH is dead (non existant) Can anyone be saved who does not have faith in Christ?? NO!!

Paul said the same exact thing James said, only in a different way, because paul was talking to a legalistic croud trying to add law. James spoke to a licentious crowed believing in mere belief (no changed life) Paul said we are saved by faith apart from works (eph 2: 8-9) and those saved WILL DO WORKS (eph 2: 10)

No the seed of satan tries to add the works of the law to faith, to keep people away from true faith in Christ, and thus away from God. He got you hooked line and sinkered into this false phariseeicle faith in self and not God.

Again, As Paul said, Those saved WILL WORK. WILL OBEY, and WILL show signs of faith. It is not the other way around.. as you would wish us to believe.

eternally-gratefull · Oct 10, 2013

Hizikyah said:

Yes you do. You proved you did in the last post I responded to. Sorry to be blunt, But what you claim you believe, and what you teach does not conform to each other, It actually contradicts each other.

eternally-gratefull · Oct 10, 2013

john832 said:

So you believe in the eternal seal of the spirit. yet you believe it can be lost if we do not obey to some set standard. (meaning it is not really an eternal seal)

What is that standard? what is the moment where one would obey enough to be ok, and disobey enough to fall from grace and into condemnation? You must know what this is, since you believe it..

eternally-gratefull · Oct 10, 2013

Josh321 said:

thats the problem with being stuck on law.

1. We are still depending on self
2. We are still trying to turn a unmerited gift into a merited reward
3. we have to decieve ourselves into thinking the right standard in the law God requires is way lower than it actually is (if we did not we could never believe we obey enough to not lose salvation)
4. We have failed to empty ourself. and give everything we have, incuding our eternal souls to God.

Elin · Oct 10, 2013

Hizikyah said:

Not quite. . .that doesn't fit the text.

Two kinds of slavery (Ro 6:20-23):

Slaves to sin = free from control of righteousness

Slaves to God = righteousness, eternal life

One is the wages of death, the other is the gift of eternal life.

Died to the law = the law has no more hold on, no power to condemn the believer who has died in Christ Jesus (6:2-7).

It's not about being freed from the world/sin,
it's about being freed from the condemnation of the law through faith in Christ Jesus (Ro 8:1).

Almost. . .

Actually, it's the operation of the principle that sinning leads to eternal death.

Elin · Oct 10, 2013

just-me said:

Yes, his divine nature, the Son of God, existed always.

His human nature, Jesus of Nazareth, did not exist at the giving of the law of Moses.

It did not exist until the Word, the Son, was made flesh (Jn 1:14).

RickShafer · Oct 10, 2013

eternally-gratefull said:

This is rightly said.
As long as you have the ten commandments posted in front of you....you will never realize the grace of the cross.
As long as you are trying to uphold laws you are missing it.
The Holy Spirit is the law.
It engraves on your conscience the right thing.
The right being the very heart of God......we miss it all of the time - - -but the Holy Spirit does not.
And so our consciences are pricked.

Listen, to the world, christians are complete wusses - because we have the conscience of God.
- But that conscience is also the Holy Spirit. (Which they don't understand anyway)

What Laws are still valid to christians

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