What Laws are still valid to christians

[just-me]

And once again you have demonstrated that you are unable (or unwilling) to answer the simple question. Moses or Paul? It is impossible to obey both regarding physical circumcision. IMO you are afraid of openly admitting that you don't believe Paul's authority.

If you are going to follow Paul instead of Moses (as you present) Then quit endorsing the Law in the physical realm, rather than the Spiritual, because you are contradicting the very teachings from the man that you say you are following.

Romans 7:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Romans 7:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For we know that the law is physical: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Which one are you going to follow!?????

 

[Josh321]

This is the last days and the bible said in the last things gospel gonna be so close it's gonna deceive the elect IF POSSIBLE that's how close it will be but it can never be the truth, this is also the ONLY CHURCH AGE in which the church OF THE WORLD not the bride church, PUT GOD OUT OF THE CHURCH the only church age that does that, and we see that everyday, if the majority of the churches put God out of the church it means they don't have the holy spirit so how can they know the truth? exactly what is going on that is why the no one can understand what the spirit of the law means because they never experienced it, i can show countless testimonies or even share mine or show videos no one will ever understand it until you experience it for yourself then you would know exactly what the spirit of the law is, that is the power that changes a lustful person to righteousness

 

[eternally-gratefull]

He's concentrating on the physical only. If the law is Spiritual, as Paul said, then we should kick the mind into gear and search for the Spiritual meaning. I don't see why there needs to be a choice between Paul and Moses. They are both right. They were both called to do God's will in the time sequence God had determined. Why fight about what part of the Word of God is negated when none of it is? If God wanted it to be invalid, He wouldn't have preserved it. Shame on God for giving us something to fight over, and the non-believers laugh at us and say to themselves "I don't want any part of that." Shame on us!!!!!!!

Because he is trying to figure out what you believe. many would say we need to be physically circumcised. Or we are sinners according to the law. He is trying to find out if you are on of those people.

 

[just-me]

Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull

The question should be.

If a 25 y/o male came into their church. And his parents did not circumcize them. And he was circumcized by the hands of God in his heart. would they try to force him to be physically circumcised. And would they consider him to be in sin if he did not. and make it a yes or no answer.

Good question. I would reject that church

the church which would force him to be circumcised physically?

So you are asking a question? or are you telling me the church is demanding? You have just blown me away.
Why ask a question when I already answered the question?
How can anyone answer a question about another churches thoughts when it's hypothetical, or if they never went to that church?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull

The question should be.

If a 25 y/o male came into their church. And his parents did not circumcize them. And he was circumcized by the hands of God in his heart. would they try to force him to be physically circumcised. And would they consider him to be in sin if he did not. and make it a yes or no answer.




So you are asking a question? or are you telling me the church is demanding? You have just blown me away.
Why ask a question when I already answered the question?

1. You said you would reject that Church, So i asked, The church which would force him to be physically circumcised. Did not think it was a hard question.
2. You would be surprised at the amount of churches which would be demanding of this and other things.

That is exactly what the topic of discussion is here is it not?

 

[just-me]

1. You said you would reject that Church, So i asked, The church which would force him to be physically circumcised. Did not think it was a hard question.
2. You would be surprised at the amount of churches which would be demanding of this and other things.

That is exactly what the topic of discussion is here is it not?

How can anyone answer a question about another churches thoughts when it's hypothetical, or if they never went to that church?

Try asking questions to people about themselves, rather than question about something else that they haven't had first hand knowledge about.

 

[homwardbound]

What was the partition?
QUOTE]

Jew and gentile not being one in the Lord
Today by and through the cross we are:
1 Corinthians 12:13 Each of us is a part of the one body of Christ. Some of us are Jews, some are Gentiles, some are slaves, and some are free. But the Holy Spirit has fitted us all together into one body. We have been baptized into Christ’s body by the one Spirit, and have all been given that same Holy Spirit.

 

[just-me]

Originally Posted by just-me

He's concentrating on the physical only. If the law is Spiritual, as Paul said, then we should kick the mind into gear and search for the Spiritual meaning. I don't see why there needs to be a choice between Paul and Moses. They are both right. They were both called to do God's will in the time sequence God had determined. Why fight about what part of the Word of God is negated when none of it is? If God wanted it to be invalid, He wouldn't have preserved it. Shame on God for giving us something to fight over, and the non-believers laugh at us and say to themselves "I don't want any part of that." Shame on us!!!!!!!

Because he is trying to figure out what you believe. many would say we need to be physically circumcised. Or we are sinners according to the law. He is trying to find out if you are on of those people.

I disagree that he is trying to figure out what I believe. He already knows. The thing that he, or you, for that matter, have a problem with, is that I see all scripture as Spiritual, and both of you see certain parts of scripture as Spiritual, and other parts of scripture as only physical. That's the only difference. I'm sure both of you have known that about what I believe for some time.

 

[john832]

Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull

The question should be.

If a 25 y/o male came into their church. And his parents did not circumcize them. And he was circumcized by the hands of God in his heart. would they try to force him to be physically circumcised. And would they consider him to be in sin if he did not. and make it a yes or no answer.




So you are asking a question? or are you telling me the church is demanding? You have just blown me away.
Why ask a question when I already answered the question?
How can anyone answer a question about another churches thoughts when it's hypothetical, or if they never went to that church?

The answer is...

Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

A concept that some here seem unable to grasp.

 

[homwardbound]

I was referring to this:

"Yet because of flesh, it can try to make void the Law as to not be guilty"

and to john's response that "the light went on,"

and asking john if he were saying that
the reason believers say they are no longer under the law is because they want to avoid guilt of their sin.

Good ? and that will clear a lot up, thanks for clearing that up

 

[just-me]

The answer is...

Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

A concept that some here seem unable to grasp.

It's the carnal mind concentrating on carnal thoughts, convincing themselves of a righteousness that can only be found in less than 100% of God.

Hebrews 7:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

Romans 8:7-9 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

 

[homwardbound]

Acts 17:30 (KJV)
[SUP]30 [/SUP]And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

This is for us to change ones mind from unbelief to believe in the finished work of Christ at the cross. where we we no longer work in the energy of our own flesh, we are by the death of Christ made dead to self, and alive to God in the resurrected Christ, and thus led by God's Spirit as Christ was when here in the flesh on earth. We thus:
[h=3]2 Corinthians 5:12-14[/h]Living Bible (TLB)

[SUP]12 [/SUP]Are we trying to pat ourselves on the back again? No, I am giving you some good ammunition! You can use this on those preachers of yours who brag about how well they look and preach but don’t have true and honest hearts. You can boast about us that we, at least, are well intentioned and honest.
[SUP]13-14 [/SUP]Are we insane to say such things about ourselves? If so, it is to bring glory to God. And if we are in our right minds, it is for your benefit. Whatever we do, it is certainly not for our own profit but because Christ’s love controls us now. Since we believe that Christ died for all of us, we should also believe that we have died to the old life we used to live.

 

[homwardbound]

That is not the point. The point is why is the law week in the context of the passage.

The law only being capable of telling us we need salvation. And keeping us humble after we are saved, proves that it is weak. Thats why we need Christ is it not?

I have to say this, "the LAW is not weak" it is the flesh that is weak!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And so no flesh can be perfect and is why the Law is in place to show us to be Law breakers, not perfect, being first born in the flesh from the womb, and in need to be born again and love which is the fulfillment of all Law. So we thus
[h=3]2 Corinthians 5:14[/h]Living Bible (TLB)

[SUP]13-14 [/SUP]Are we insane to say such things about ourselves? If so, it is to bring glory to God. And if we are in our right minds, it is for your benefit. Whatever we do, it is certainly not for our own profit but because Christ’s love controls us now. Since we believe that Christ died for all of us, we should also believe that we have died to the old life we used to live.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Try asking questions to people about themselves, rather than question about something else that they haven't had first hand knowledge about.

why is it you are so difficult and unable to answer questions?

the question is would YOU AS A PERSON do this. And your answer was you would reject that church/ Your the one who brought a church up. now all you are doing again is avoiding the question.

 

[just-me]

Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull

That is not the point. The point is why is the law week in the context of the passage.

The law only being capable of telling us we need salvation. And keeping us humble after we are saved, proves that it is weak. Thats why we need Christ is it not?

I have to say this, "the LAW is not weak" it is the flesh that is weak!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And so no flesh can be perfect and is why the Law is in place to show us to be Law breakers, not perfect, being first born in the flesh from the womb, and in need to be born again and love which is the fulfillment of all Law. So we thus
2 Corinthians 5:14

Living Bible (TLB)

[SUP]13-14 [/SUP]Are we insane to say such things about ourselves? If so, it is to bring glory to God. And if we are in our right minds, it is for your benefit. Whatever we do, it is certainly not for our own profit but because Christ’s love controls us now. Since we believe that Christ died for all of us, we should also believe that we have died to the old life we used to live.

You are right on brother. I like the translation you brought forth.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Originally Posted by just-me

He's concentrating on the physical only. If the law is Spiritual, as Paul said, then we should kick the mind into gear and search for the Spiritual meaning. I don't see why there needs to be a choice between Paul and Moses. They are both right. They were both called to do God's will in the time sequence God had determined. Why fight about what part of the Word of God is negated when none of it is? If God wanted it to be invalid, He wouldn't have preserved it. Shame on God for giving us something to fight over, and the non-believers laugh at us and say to themselves "I don't want any part of that." Shame on us!!!!!!!



I disagree that he is trying to figure out what I believe. He already knows. The thing that he, or you, for that matter, have a problem with, is that I see all scripture as Spiritual, and both of you see certain parts of scripture as Spiritual, and other parts of scripture as only physical. That's the only difference. I'm sure both of you have known that about what I believe for some time.

No. to be honest we do not. Because you seem to answer questions in a way which does not answer questions.

He asked you about physical circucmicison/ You continually answer about spiritual. but do not give your view on physical. And you wonder why he gets so mad. he is NOT ASKING about spiritual. so why answer him that way?

 

[homwardbound]

I respect much of what you say, but how do you reconcile these scriptures by not agreeing with #4?

4.We have entered into a relationship with God, through Christ Jesus, and know, if our old nature has its way, we will be separated from Him until we ask for forgiveness, and be conquerors of the old nature through Him.

1 Corinthians 15:30-31 (KJV)
[SUP]30 [/SUP]And why stand we in jeopardy every hour?
[SUP]31 [/SUP]I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.

Luke 9:23-24 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.

It seems to evident that my understanding of scripture is different than most in that I believe that our carnal nature is still within us after our salvation takes place. I then call salvation a way of life. Some might believe that we are conformed into the image of Christ in a blink of an eye, and then it's all over, and the carnal nature just goes away forever form that point on. I think that there is a process of events that Christ is involved in 24/7. When we are born, we drink milk and crawl, when we grow up we eat meat and walk. Takes time and effort.

Agreed. When one is on their way to being born again, it is as if or like a Caterpillar that one day spins a cocoon and Metamorphoses takes place, then one day that cocoon breaks open and out comes a butterfly. That worm has then been born again, and is a butterfly.
Will that Butterfly ever be a worm again? Can it be or is it truly born again?
Will that butterfly also go the right places and do the right things?

Do you now see what being born again is? And will you learn to continue to try and do what is right or will you just walk by Faith in what to do and say as Christ did? The stress in Faith is gone and you find you are doing as led by God, via the Holy Ghost of promise
Galatians 5:6 And we to whom Christ has given eternal life don’t need to worry about whether we have been circumcised or not, or whether we are obeying the Jewish ceremonies or not; for all we need is faith working through love.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The answer is...

Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

A concept that some here seem unable to grasp.

So you would agree that a person who is saved, but not physically circumcized according to the law. is not in sin concerning the law?

 

[john832]

Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull


That is not the point. The point is why is the law week in the context of the passage.

The law only being capable of telling us we need salvation. And keeping us humble after we are saved, proves that it is weak. Thats why we need Christ is it not?

Psa 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
Psa 19:8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.
Psa 19:9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
Psa 19:10 More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
Psa 19:11 Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.

Just one example...

Pro 5:3 For the lips of a strange woman drop as an honeycomb, and her mouth is smoother than oil:
Pro 5:4 But her end is bitter as wormwood, sharp as a twoedged sword.
Pro 5:5 Her feet go down to death; her steps take hold on hell.
Pro 5:6 Lest thou shouldest ponder the path of life, her ways are moveable, that thou canst not know them.
Pro 5:7 Hear me now therefore, O ye children, and depart not from the words of my mouth.
Pro 5:8 Remove thy way far from her, and come not nigh the door of her house:
Pro 5:9 Lest thou give thine honour unto others, and thy years unto the cruel:
Pro 5:10 Lest strangers be filled with thy wealth; and thy labours be in the house of a stranger;
Pro 5:11 And thou mourn at the last, when thy flesh and thy body are consumed,

Pro 5:15 Drink waters out of thine own cistern, and running waters out of thine own well.
Pro 5:16 Let thy fountains be dispersed abroad, and rivers of waters in the streets.
Pro 5:17 Let them be only thine own, and not strangers' with thee.
Pro 5:18 Let thy fountain be blessed: and rejoice with the wife of thy youth.
Pro 5:19 Let her be as the loving hind and pleasant roe; let her breasts satisfy thee at all times; and be thou ravished always with her love.
Pro 5:20 And why wilt thou, my son, be ravished with a strange woman, and embrace the bosom of a stranger?

Actually, the whole book of Proverbs should be read repeatedly, but chapter 5 (and many other places) deals with the seventh Commandment. It not only should be kept in spirit, but there is great reward for not violating the letter of the Law.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I have to say this, "the LAW is not weak" it is the flesh that is weak!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And so no flesh can be perfect and is why the Law is in place to show us to be Law breakers, not perfect, being first born in the flesh from the womb, and in need to be born again and love which is the fulfillment of all Law. So we thus
2 Corinthians 5:14

Living Bible (TLB)

[SUP]13-14 [/SUP]Are we insane to say such things about ourselves? If so, it is to bring glory to God. And if we are in our right minds, it is for your benefit. Whatever we do, it is certainly not for our own profit but because Christ’s love controls us now. Since we believe that Christ died for all of us, we should also believe that we have died to the old life we used to live.

I would disagree.

the law is weak.

It can not save you as a non believer
It can not make you righteous as a believer.

Thus it is weak in what people want it to do.

It is ONLY strong in what it was intended. A schoolmaster.