What Laws are still valid to christians

[Elin]

you miss a key point in this passage, those who are in the flesh cant subject themselves to Yahweh's Law, its not about justification its about submitting one self to Yahweh. I tell you one who didnt submit, satan.

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.


Mattithyah 7:21, "But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity.

Christianity 101

Yes, and Paul's use of "flesh" here means those "without the Spirit;" i.e., those who have not been born again.

In both cases, they were not born again and, therefore, Jesus did not know them as his own.

Another directionless point.

 

[Hizikyah]

Around this bush for the umpteenth time.

The operative word is until.
And until arrived 2,000 years ago.

In NT Christianity, as distinct from Messianic Judaism, the Pentateuch has not failed,
it has been fulfilled (perfected) by and in Christ Jesus.

And according to Christ Jesus, that is when it passes away.

Therefore,
the Levitical priesthood,
the sacrifices,
the ceremonial laws of food, defilement, cleansings,
the Sinaitic (Old) Covenant,

. . .all are no more.


And that includes his words, "until the Law be fulfilled."


That is Messianic Judaism's misconstruing of the grammatical construction of the text,
as demonstrated in #451.

Yes, the cause of the enmity between Jew and Gentile; i.e., the defilement laws
which made the Gentile unclean to the Jew, was slain on the cross, and
thereby, Christ Jesus made peace between Jew and Gentile (Eph 2:15),
and also between the two of them and God (Eph 2:16),
through forgiveness of their sin by faith in the blood of Christ (Ro 3:25).

Messianic Judaism is not NT Christianity, and seeks to interpret the NT to fit Judaism.

so all things have been perfected? and all the prophecies have already been fulfilled?

because looking out my window tells me different, all things are not perfected until satan is destroyed after Yahshua's return.

it seems you dont know whtaJudaisim is, Judaisim says what the rabis says exceeds the Scriptures.

the word of Yahweh exceeds all. period.

 

[Hizikyah]

Are you talking about the Law of Faith in the finished work of Christ?
Please tell me what Law, I know the laws of Moses point to Jesus as the way, the truth and the life. and to the Faith that Noah had as well as Abraham had, and Christ is the mediator of this Covenant between God and Abraham, do you agree with this?

im talking about the Law of Yahweh that Yahshua said would NEVER PASS

 

[Hizikyah]

if only the world could experience and feel the true power of God to change a man this won't even be a debate, let me ask you this what part of christ, came to fulfill the righteousness of the law IN us, don't you understand, don't you see this when someone gets transformed? i even show you fulfillment through myself and you see it but you just can't understand it or get to grasp on what i'm talking about when you died to the world.. the righteousness of the law has been fulfilled in it, i have no idea how to explain this to you.. or anyone just won't get what i mean, but this is what fulfillment means

Hebrews 10:16-17

King James Version (KJV)

16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

see it's already in our hearts and end when we become born again, fulfill means it's already accomplished, because of that through the holy spirit we don't have to follow it we just have to love each other, why do you think people miraculously change their wicked ways when they receive the gift from God? that is the law being fulfilled in them, don't you get it? they automatically walk according to the law, not by flesh and actually doing it but by spirit it has been fulfilled in us that is why we become aware that we were living in sin and christ set us free from that, that fulfillment is what changes the unbeliever and makes them righteous

how can the Law of Yahweh be in someones heart when they hate it and call it an evil old curse?

 

[homwardbound]

Does God want us to get past the Old Testament? The New Testament makes it clear that 2 Timothy 3:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

With that in mind, Paul is referring to the Old Testament, for the New Testament writings were part of that letter Paul was writing, referring to what Timothy already had in his possession. Henceforth, the scripture Paul was endorsing was the Old Testament, as we know it. It's profitable. Why would we want to get past it, or pass it by?

And thanks just-me
The First compliments the second. and the second is the fulfillment of the first

Old and new (First and second testament) Do go hand in hand, how can I know one with out the other?
I guess I had better see it as Paul said it
[h=3]1 Corinthians 2[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

2 And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God. [SUP]2 [/SUP]For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified. [SUP]3 [/SUP]And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling. [SUP]4 [/SUP]And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man’s wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]that your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

So maybe, we might want to be careful in how we build

[h=3]1 Corinthians 3:10-23[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]10 [/SUP]According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. [SUP]11 [/SUP]For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. [SUP]12 [/SUP]Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; [SUP]13 [/SUP]every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is. [SUP]14 [/SUP]If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. [SUP]15 [/SUP]If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. [SUP]16 [/SUP]Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? [SUP]17 [/SUP]If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise. [SUP]19 [/SUP]For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness. [SUP]20 [/SUP]And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain. [SUP]21 [/SUP]Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours; [SUP]22 [/SUP]whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours; [SUP]23 [/SUP]and ye are Christ’s; and Christ is God’s.


So then how is this work done? flesh or the Spirit of God working through now our dead flesh, by the resurrected Christ?

 

[Hizikyah]

Christianity 101

Yes, and Paul's use of "flesh" here means those "without the Spirit;" i.e., those who have not been born again.

In both cases, they were not born again and, therefore, Jesus did not know them as his own.

Another directionless point.

the modern usage of "born again" is a non Scriptual thing

in Romans 8 Shaul is talking about:

Romans 8:14, "For as many as are oled by the Spirit of Yahweh, they are the sons of Yahweh!"

 

[Josh321]

brother Josh before you go plese give me your view on this verse? Is iniquity not "without Law" and is not Yahshua casting people off for iniquity?

Mattithyah 7:21, "But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity."

iniquity is:

#0458 ἀνομία anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459

Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

anyone who hasn't receive christ are workers of iniquity because they still living in sin

 

[Josh321]

how can the Law of Yahweh be in someones heart when they hate it and call it an evil old curse?

who hate and despise the law? the law is what brings people to christ because they realise they can't follow it and need help from God, know what the problem here is, everything is so close together but yet so far that is why there is an argument, because we basically talking about the same thing but it's yet so very different

 

[Hizikyah]

anyone who hasn't receive christ are workers of iniquity because they still living in sin

these people He is talking about claim to be do His work

Mattithyah 7:21-23, "Not everyone who says to Me; Teacher! Teacher! will enter into the Kingdom of Yahweh, but only he who does the will of My Father Who is in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day; Teacher! Teacher! Have we not prophesied in nYour Name, and cast out demons in Your Name, and in Your Name performed many wonderful works?
But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity."

these people thiught they were with the Messiah but did not do according to what Yahshua said

Mattithyah 5:18-19, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected. Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, hhe will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh."

Revelation 12:17, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went to make war with those who forsook her seed; her seed being those who keep the Laws of Yahweh, and have the testimony of Yahshua Messiah."

1785. entolé
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.

Revelation 14:12, "lIn this manner are the saints purified--by keeping the Laws of Yahweh, in conformity with the faith in Yahshua Messiah."

1785. entolé
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.

Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."

 

[Hizikyah]

who hate and despise the law? the law is what brings people to christ because they realise they can't follow it and need help from God, know what the problem here is, everything is so close together but yet so far that is why there is an argument, because we basically talking about the same thing but it's yet so very different

most here call Yahweh's perfect Instructions a curse, a burden, etc

Yahweh's children dont do this

Pslam 119:97-105, "O how we love Your Law! It is our meditation all the day. Your Laws make us wiser than our enemies, because they are our possession at all times.We have more understanding than all our teachers, because Your testimonies are our meditation. We understand more than the ancients, because we keep Your precepts. We have restrained our feet (from the path o)f every evil way, in order that we may keep Your Law. We have not turned away from Your judgments, for You Yourself have taught us. How sweet are Your Laws to our taste; sweeter than honey to our mouths! From Your precepts we get understanding! Therefore, we hate every path of falsehood.Your Law is a lamp to our feet, and a light to our path."

Romans 8:6-8, "For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), Yahweh; for it his not subject to the Law of Yahweh, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please Yahweh."

 

[Elin]

If the Messiah is your master, than why do you fight those who do and teach Yahweh's Law?

Jesus is my Christ.

"Messiah" is used twice in the whole Bible, in two consecutive verses. "Christ" is used over 345 times.

My disagreement is with those who do not understand the Mosaic law in the light of the revelation spoken by the Son in these last days (Heb 1:1-2), given through the NT writers, to wit:

The law of Moses was given on the basis of the Levitical priesthood (Heb 7:11).
When, to fulfill Ps 110:4, God changed the Levitical priesthood to the order of Melchizedek,
both Priest and King,
the Mosaic law which was based on that priesthood no longer had a basis,
and also had to be changed (Heb 7:12).
It was set aside (Heb 7:18-19) as weak and useless for righteousness, along with
the Levitical priesthood, in favor of the new eternal priesthood in the order of Melchizedek,
and the Sinaitic Covenant which was based on that now set-aside Mosaic law
was thereby made obsolete (Heb 8:13).

This is the revelation of the Son (Heb 1:1-2), given through the NT writers, which you deny,
and try to alter to force fit it into your Judaism.
But Jesus is neither added to nor fitted into Judaism.

He is all, or he is nothing.
Those are his terms, not ours.

its the Levitical priesthood which no longer matters, its been abolished, not the Instructions of righteous living.

Not only the Levitical priesthood,
but also the sacrifices,
the ceremonial laws of food, defilement and cleansings,
the Sinaitic (Old) Covenant. . .

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

the priestly law has been transfered from Levitical to Yahshua.

trust the words of the Messiah

Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

Whether the law fails or not is irrelevant to believers in Christ, because by virtue of Christ's death, they are no longer subject to it.

 

[Josh321]

these people He is talking about claim to be do His work

Mattithyah 7:21-23, "Not everyone who says to Me; Teacher! Teacher! will enter into the Kingdom of Yahweh, but only he who does the will of My Father Who is in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day; Teacher! Teacher! Have we not prophesied in nYour Name, and cast out demons in Your Name, and in Your Name performed many wonderful works?
But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity."

these people thiught they were with the Messiah but did not do according to what Yahshua said

Mattithyah 5:18-19, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected. Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, hhe will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh."

Revelation 12:17, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went to make war with those who forsook her seed; her seed being those who keep the Laws of Yahweh, and have the testimony of Yahshua Messiah."

1785. entolé
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.

Revelation 14:12, "lIn this manner are the saints purified--by keeping the Laws of Yahweh, in conformity with the faith in Yahshua Messiah."

1785. entolé
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.

Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."

ah hah that right there, see they haven't been truly born again yet so they thought they were doing his work but they actually wasn't because they were still in the flesh

 

[Hizikyah]

Not only the Levitical priesthood,
but also the sacrifices,
the ceremonial laws of food, defilement and cleansings,
the Sinaitic (Old) Covenant. . .

if the Sacrificial Law was "done away" how did you being born 2000 yrs later, accept the Sacrifice to be reconciled to Yahweh?

you see, all of us that have accepted Yahshua, have Sacrificed, and those who do in the future will Sacrifice, and will never have to ever sacrifice again. without that Law, the blood could do nothing, HalleluYAHWEH for His perfect Laws of peace and mercy!

so how is that Law done away? dont say anything about animals please, im not talking about animals, im talking about accepting the REAL SACRIFICE.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

so the Law is an evil bad guy to you?

Straw-man caricature. Distraction.

 

[Hizikyah]

well I can say this, as surely as Yahweh lives, we will all know wheter we should have followed His Instructions when the resurrections happen.

HalleluYAHWEH!

 

[Hizikyah]

Originally Posted by Hizikyah

these people He is talking about claim to be do His work

Mattithyah 7:21-23, "Not everyone who says to Me; Teacher! Teacher! will enter into the Kingdom of Yahweh, but only he who does the will of My Father Who is in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day; Teacher! Teacher! Have we not prophesied in nYour Name, and cast out demons in Your Name, and in Your Name performed many wonderful works?
But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity."

these people thiught they were with the Messiah but did not do according to what Yahshua said

Mattithyah 5:18-19, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected. Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, hhe will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh."

Revelation 12:17, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went to make war with those who forsook her seed; her seed being those who keep the Laws of Yahweh, and have the testimony of Yahshua Messiah."

1785. entolé
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.

Revelation 14:12, "lIn this manner are the saints purified--by keeping the Laws of Yahweh, in conformity with the faith in Yahshua Messiah."

1785. entolé
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.

Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."

ah hah that right there, see they haven't been truly born again yet so they thought they were doing his work but they actually wasn't because they were still in the flesh

?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

If I were strong and able to keep His Law perfectly I could stand before Him by my own righteousness. But I am not strong. I am weak and not able to keep His Law perfectly. This causes me to be humble and meek before Him.

How could I, being weak, try to preach the Law when I can't keep it my own self? I can't. But what I can do is tell you how I myself was saved. Even though I couldn't keep the Royal Law perfectly the Lord Jesus Christ saved me from it. From the condemnation of not being perfect before Him. He Loves me anyway. And that is the mystery.

Law-cultists deceive themselves and others into thinking that Christ makes them strong to keep the law. I think that really forms the basis for their delusion.

 

[Hizikyah]

Law-cultists deceive themselves and others into thinking that Christ makes them strong to keep the law. I think that really forms the basis for their delusion.

Revelation 12:17, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went to make war with those who forsook her seed; her seed being those who keep the Laws of Yahweh, and have the testimony of Yahshua Messiah."

1785. entolé
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.

Revelation 14:12, "lIn this manner are the saints purified--by keeping the Laws of Yahweh, in conformity with the faith in Yahshua Messiah."

1785. entolé
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.

Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."

 

[Elin]

Jesus is my Christ.
"Messiah" is used twice in the whole Bible, "Christ" is used over 340 times.

My disagreement is with those who do not understand the Mosaic law in the light of the revelation spoken by the Son in these last days (Heb 1:1-2), given through the NT writers, to wit:

The law of Moses was given on the basis of the Levitical priesthood (Heb 7:11).
When, to fulfill Ps 110:4, God changed the Levitical priesthood to the order of Melchizedek,
both Priest and King,
the Mosaic law which was based on that priesthood no longer had a basis, and also had to be
changed (Heb 7:12).
It was set aside (Heb 7:18-19) along with the Levitical priesthood, in favor of the new eternal
priesthood in the order of Melchizedek,
and the Sinaitic Covenant which was based on that now set-aside Mosaic law was thereby
made obsolete (Heb 8:13).

This is the revelation of the Son (Heb 1:1-2), given through the NT writers, which you deny,
and try to alter to force fit it into your Judaism.
But Jesus is neither added to nor fitted into Judaism.

He is all, or he is nothing.
Those are his terms, not ours.

this is the misunderstanding with most lawless ones, they cant seperate the ways of a man of Yahweh from pharisees.

Yahshua continually spoke against Pharisee/Judaisim, never did He once speak against Yahweh's Laws.

the preachers of Babylon jumble Yahweh;s Law with the teaching of the Pharisees and take advantege of the ignorance of the people.

they act like the problem was " the pharisees kept the Law but they did it without love."

this is not even close to true, only one who has no knowedge of what is in the Talmud judaisim) could ever think this.

Mattithyah 15:1-3, "Then scribes and Pharisees from Yerusalem came to Yahshua, and said; Why do Your disciples transgress the traditions of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat. But He answered, and said to them: And why do you transgress the Laws of Yahweh by your traditions?"

Another directionless point.

Non-responsive.