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[Praus]

You go back and re-read and study Genesis.

Ok.

you folks take pleasure in "nit picking" at the silliest things to continue in your anti-Israel rhetoric.

If nit picking is a problem for you then why do you even study the book of Genesis at all?

7 Things You Need to Know about the Torah | Mental Floss

4. There are over 4,000 laws that dictate the writing. Even the slightest slip of the pen, the smallest mistake, can be reason to burn the scroll and start over, especially if a mistake is found in the word God. Indeed, God's name is so holy, a scribe must bathe in a mikvah (ritual pool) before writing the Lord's four-letter (Hebrew) name.

 

[Married_Richenbrachen]

ok, I dont wanna run the risk of misquoting you; TO RECAP,,,,

Jesus ministry first half of 70th week AD26 - AD30 <<<<<<<<<<<< IS THIS CORRECT?
second half of 70th week AD30 - AD34 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< IS THIS CORRECT?

The one who caused the sacrifice and the oblation to cease halfway through the 70th week is THE LIVING GOD >>> IS THIS CORRECT?

Roughly, that is correct. I understand there is some uncertainty in the dates of events (e.g. Christ's crucifixion, Christ's birth), but the dates you quote are in the ball park.

 

[BradC]

sorry Red33....i don't really take instructions from false teachers.

especially guys who say "laying some guilt trip on them" < mkay



The fourth judgment is the one that most concerns us here. The time of this judgment is immediately after the Messiah returns to Earth to establish His literal kingdom in the city of Jerusalem. It is critical to your well-being that you understand what the Bible teaches about the believer’s treatment of God’s chosen people so you will not come under this judgment.

It is important to be right on the Israel question when you consider that being wrong brings you under the curse of God and headed for eternal, everlasting fire with the devil and his angels.

Israel is not a “take it or leave it” subject. It is a life and death matter-eternal life!

- John Hagee, The Lord Has Chosen Zion

Don't take what I said to you literally, just think of it symbolically and examine yourself if you think it's needed. We all do it, but it's difficult when your being ridiculed and mocked because of what you believe in the Spirit. I know you think your right on all these things but your not and that is what's troubling. The guilt trips you lay on people is there and you can't deny that no matter how hard you try because you like it that way for some reason just to be able to get your point across. That is a heck of a way to communicate with others. I wonder how many of those you have ridiculed you believe to be of the devil. You operate from the wrong premise and you are very prejudice about these matters and you take sides against those who love God and are called according to God's purpose and you don't even realize it.

BradC

 

[SarahM777]

You go back and re-read and study Genesis. Ishmael was the son of Abraham and Hagar. Isaac was the son of Abraham and Sarah. Jacob was the son of Isaac and Rebekah.

There is nothing wrong in the chronology I posted....you folks take pleasure in "nit picking" at the silliest things to continue in your anti-Israel rhetoric. It really doesn't matter if Esau married one of Ishmael's daughters and made Jacob Ishmael's step uncle. That doesn't change the fact that the nation, which we call Israel today, existed as Canaan before Ishmael and Isaac were born....and that same nation that was called Canaan, was named after Jacob, who was renamed Israel by God (Genesis 32:28).

The covenant promises God gave to Abraham in Genesis 12:1-3 and Genesis 15:18-21, were established through Isaac, not Ishmael (Genesis 17:15-21). God confirmed those same promises through Jacob (Genesis 28:13-15), not Esau, who sold his birthright for a bowl of pottage (Genesis 25:27-34).

UMM The Bible does not call it the land of Israel till 1 Samuel 13:19. Up to that time it was either called Canaan or the promised land. If the Bible itself does call the land the land of Israel till Samuel then how does that make it anti-Israel? Moses didn't call it the land of Israel nor did Joshua. Were they anti-Israel because they did not call the land Israel?

 

[BradC]

the "dispensation of grace"

here it is again...see if you can read it and still wrongly "divide the word of truth" into "dispensations.

New International Version
Surely you have heard about the administration of God's grace that was given to me for you,

New Living Translation
assuming, by the way, that you know God gave me the special responsibility of extending his grace to you Gentiles.

English Standard Version
assuming that you have heard of the stewardship of God’s grace that was given to me for you,

New American Standard Bible
if indeed you have heard of the stewardship of God's grace which was given to me for you;

King James Bible
If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

Holman Christian Standard Bible
you have heard, haven't you, about the administration of God's grace that He gave to me for you?

International Standard Version
Surely you have heard about the responsibility of administering God's grace that was given to me on your behalf,

NET Bible
if indeed you have heard of the stewardship of God's grace that was given to me for you,

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
If you have heard of the administration of the grace of God, which is given to me among you.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Certainly, you have heard how God gave me the responsibility of bringing his kindness to you.

Jubilee Bible 2000
if ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which has been given to me in you,

King James 2000 Bible
If you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me toward you:

American King James Version
If you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

American Standard Version
if so be that ye have heard of the dispensation of that grace of God which was given me to you-ward;

Douay-Rheims Bible
If yet you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me towards you:

Darby Bible Translation
(if indeed ye have heard of the administration of the grace of God which has been given to me towards you,

English Revised Version
if so be that ye have heard of the dispensation of that grace of God which was given me to you-ward;

Webster's Bible Translation
If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me on your account.

Weymouth New Testament
if, that is, you have heard of the work which God has graciously entrusted to me for your benefit,

World English Bible
if it is so that you have heard of the administration of that grace of God which was given me toward you;

Young's Literal Translation
if, indeed, ye did hear of the dispensation of the grace of God that was given to me in regard to you,

......

paul was graciously given as a steward of the gospel of salvation to the gentiles; just the very same gospel the apostles to the jews gave the jews.

Certainly, you have heard how God gave me the responsibility of bringing his kindness to you.

The word dispensation, even when it appears in scripture in this context, is unthinkable to you and you love to charge others with your disgruntled definition because it is unimaginative for you to allow anyone to come to an understanding that a stewardship of grace is connected to an appointed period of time, carved out by God through the wisdom of revelation, and associated with his eternal purpose concerning the mystery of Christ and the church. You can't have that and you must destroy it less your entire premise is ruined and your doctrine falls to the ground. I have no problem with understanding dispensations when God initiates at appointed times, by grace and the manifold wisdom of revelation, a work of faith to accomplish his eternal purposes in the life of men through the revelation of his Son. Just as the people of Israel were chosen by promise at the appointed time through Issac and set aside in unbelief at the close of the 69th week, so are the people of the church chosen by promise and placed in Christ until the fulness of the Gentiles be brought into God eternal purpose of redemption. Then God will turn his undivided attention to the people of Israel, chasten them, turn them and deliver them with a great deliverance that will involve the blood of the Lamb. All prejudice against Israel will have to take a back seat and be deflated under the revelation of God's faithfulness to his promise seed that includes the flesh and blood of Israel as a people and a nation.

 

[zone]

You operate from the wrong premise......

no, sorry....not wrong.

and you are very prejudice about these matters

well that's true.

 

[Elin]

You go back and re-read and study Genesis. Ishmael was the son of Abraham and Hagar. Isaac was the son of Abraham and Sarah. Jacob was the son of Isaac and Rebekah.

There is nothing wrong in the chronology I posted....you folks take pleasure in "nit picking" at the silliest things to continue in your anti-Israel rhetoric. It really doesn't matter if Esau married one of Ishmael's daughters and made Jacob Ishmael's step uncle. That doesn't change the fact that the nation, which we call Israel today, existed as Canaan before Ishmael and Isaac were born....and that same nation that was called Canaan, was named after Jacob, who was renamed Israel by God (Genesis 32:28).

Canaan was a land of pagans. . .not God's people, whom Joshua had to drive out
in order to possess the land.

What am I missing here?

 

[zone]

The word dispensation, even when it appears in scripture in this context, is unthinkable to you and you love to charge others with your disgruntled definition because it is unimaginative for you to allow anyone to come to an understanding that a stewardship of grace is connected to an appointed period of time, carved out by God through the wisdom of revelation, and associated with his eternal purpose concerning the mystery of Christ and the church.

nooooo.....i understand the mystery of the eternal purpose.

it wasn't a mystery gentile free grace church age gap parenthesis.

οἰκονομία, οἰκονομίας, ἡ (οἰκονομέω), from Xenophon, and Plato down, "the management of a household or of household affairs; specifically, the management, oversight, administration, of others' property; the office of a manager or overseer, stewardship": Luke 16:2-4; hence, the word is transferred by Paul in a theocratic sense to the office (duty) intrusted to him by God (the lord and master) of proclaiming to men the blessings of the gospel, 1 Corinthians 9:17; ἡ, οἰκονομία τοῦ Θεοῦ, the office of administrator (stewardship) intrusted by God, Colossians 1:25. universally, administration, dispensation, which in a theocratic sense is ascribed to God himself as providing for man's salvation: αἵτινες ... ἡ οἰκονομίαν Θεοῦ τήν ἐν πίστει, which furnish matter for disputes rather than the (knowledge of the) dispensation of the things by which God has provided for and prepared salvation, which salvation must be embraced by faith, 1 Timothy 1:4 L T Tr WH; ἥν προέθετο ... καιρῶν, which good will he purposed to show with a view to (that) dispensation (of his) by which the times (namely, of infancy and immaturity cf. Galatians 4:1-4) were to be fulfilled, Ephesians 1:9f; ἡ οἰκονομία τῆς χάριτος τοῦ Θεοῦ τῆς δοθείσης μοι, that dispensation (or arrangement) by which the grace of God was granted me, Ephesians 3:2; ἡ οἰκονομία τοῦ μυστηρίου, the dispensation by which he carried out his secret purpose, Ephesians 3:9 G L T Tr WH.


Ephesians 3
The Mystery of the Gospel Revealed
1 For this reason I, Paul, a prisoner for Christ Jesus on behalf of you Gentiles— 2assuming that you have heard of the stewardship of God’s grace that was given to me for you, 3 how the mystery was made known to me by revelation, as I have written briefly. 4 When you read this, you can perceive my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to the sons of men in other generations as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit. 6 This mystery is that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, members of the same body, and partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel.


see: it says right here what the mystery was:

This mystery is that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, members of the same body, and partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel.

gentiles are fellow heirs - with the remnant Israel
members of the same body of called out ones - equal to the remnant Israel
partakers of the promise in Jesus Christ - the promise received by faithful Israel - grafted into the single tree - one fold.
through THE GOSPEL.

so now we know what the mystery was.
now we never, ever have to twist it to be a Plan B; a division of time for a gentile church age parenthesis while blind israel is pushed to the side for 2000 years or anything like that.
we will never ever have any excuse for making the mystery anything other than what Paul said it was.

You can't have that and you must destroy it less your entire premise is ruined and your doctrine falls to the ground.

re-read what the mystery was.

I have no problem with understanding dispensations when God initiates at appointed times, by grace and the manifold wisdom of revelation, a work of faith to accomplish his eternal purposes in the life of men through the revelation of his Son.

apparently you do, since instead of just understanding that the mystery was about the Gospel of Jesus Christ....how it was revealed to his holy apostles and prophets (jews)...that the gentiles would be fellow heirs (see Peter's vision of the unclean animals for example) through the preaching of the GOSPEL....you overlay John Hagee's outlandish storyline.

THE MYSTERY:
gentiles fellow heirs of the very promises given to Israel.

what other promises would they be partakers of?
what body would they members of if ISRAEL AND THE CHURCH are separate

Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile.

and that's exactly how it happened.

no Plan B parenthesis vanishing gentile dispensation grace church.
Plan A went just they way God said it would. and continues to go the way God said it would.
see Daniel 2.

Just as the people of Israel were chosen by promise at the appointed time through Issac and set aside in unbelief at the close of the 69th week

chosen by promise; but set aside in unbelief?
to die without hope (because God 'partially' blinded them all) for 2000+ years?
i don't know your god.

there's nothing at all in Daniel that says anyone is set aside for some future purpose at the close of week 69.
Daniel says the unbelievers who refused to accept the New Covenant in Christ's Blood would perish in the city when The LORD sent the prince Titus.

Jesus revealed that prophecy to His disciples as they themselves were admiring the Temple and surrounds.
what did Jesus say would happen to it all?
did the remnant Jews escape the city? why yes we're told they did.

anyone can know what dispensationalism teaches by reading your post.
i wonder why modified or other adapted dispensationalists never say anything about the errors you teach.
maybe they agree with you completely?
i don't know....it's just left to anti-dispensationalists to debunk - then to be flamed for it from the sidelines. oh well - Que Sera, Sera.





QUESTION FOR ANYONE: is this what dispensationalism fundamentally teaches?

Just as the people of Israel were chosen by promise at the appointed time through Issac and set aside in unbelief at the close of the 69th week so are the people of the church chosen by promise and placed in Christ until the fulness of the Gentiles be brought into God eternal purpose of redemption. Then God will turn his undivided attention to the people of Israel, chasten them, turn them and deliver them with a great deliverance that will involve the blood of the Lamb. All prejudice against Israel will have to take a back seat and be deflated under the revelation of God's faithfulness to his promise seed that includes the flesh and blood of Israel as a people and a nation.

is the above section another gospel?

 

[BradC]

Ephesians 1:10 10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

The purpose God had in mind is given us in the words, “that in the dispensation of the fulness of times, etc.” The preposition is eis, “with a view to,” indicating what direction the purpose took. The word “dispensation” requires some study. It is not preceded by the definite article. The word is oikonomia, which is made up of oikos,“house,” and nomos, “law.” The compound word means, “the management of a household, or of household affairs, the management, oversight, administration of other’s property, the office of a manager, overseer, stewardship.” Thus, it speaks here of an administration by God of a certain period of human history designated as “the fulness of times.” Our word “dispensation,” used in Bible teaching nomenclature, refers to a certain period of time marked by a certain method in which God administers the affairs of mankind, such as the dispensation of grace, etc. It does not have that meaning here. Instead of referring to a dispensation itself, it speaks of the method by which God administers the particular time referred to in the words “the fulness of times.”

Paul had received by revelation a measure of grace according to God's purpose that he was to administer, dispense, oversee and manage in terms of its affairs, its doctrine and the building up of believers as a habitation of God through the Spirit. This was to be done by faith and all under the stewardship of this grace that was given. This was never offered to Israel nor was it a part of the commonwealth of Israel. It was solely offered to the church as part of the manifold grace and wisdom of God according to God's purpose to reveal the mystery of Christ and the church. It excluded Israel as a people and nation who had an immutable covenant with God but were partially blinded through the Rock of offence.

1 Peter 2:1-8 So be done with every trace of wickedness (depravity, malignity) and all deceit and insincerity (pretense, hypocrisy) and grudges (envy, jealousy) and slander and evil speaking of every kind.2 Like newborn babies you should crave (thirst for, earnestly desire) the pure (unadulterated) spiritual milk, that by it you may be nurtured and grow unto [completed] salvation,
3 Since you have [already] tasted the goodness and kindness of the Lord.
4 Come to Him [then, to that] Living Stone which men tried and threw away, but which is chosen [and] precious in God’s sight.
5 [Come] and, like living stones, be yourselves built [into] a spiritual house, for a holy (dedicated, consecrated) priesthood, to offer up [those] spiritual sacrifices [that are] acceptable and pleasing to God through Jesus Christ.
6 For thus it stands in Scripture: Behold, I am laying in Zion a chosen (honored), precious chief Cornerstone, and he who believes in Him shall never be disappointed or put to shame.
7 To you then who believe is the preciousness; but for those who disbelieve [it is true], The [very] Stone which the builders rejected has become the main Cornerstone,
8 And, A Stone that will cause stumbling and a Rock that will give [men] offense; they stumble because they disobey and disbelieve [God’s] Word, as those [who reject Him] were destined (appointed) to do.
9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a dedicated nation, [God’s] ownpurchased, special people, that you may set forth the wonderful deeds and display the virtues and perfections of Him Who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light.
10 Once you were not a people [at all], but now you are God’s people; once you were unpitied, but now you are pitied and have received mercy.
11 Beloved, I implore you as aliens and strangers and exiles [in this world] to abstain from the sensual urges (the evil desires, the passions of the flesh, your lower nature) that wage war against the soul.
12 Conduct yourselves properly (honorably, righteously) among the Gentiles, so that, although they may slander you as evildoers, [yet] they may by witnessing your good deeds [come to] glorify God in the day of inspection [when God shall look upon you wanderers as a pastor or shepherd looks over his flock].

 

[Married_Richenbrachen]

This was never offered to Israel nor was it a part of the commonwealth of Israel.

It excluded Israel as a people and nation who had an immutable covenant with God but were partially blinded through the Rock of offence.

This sounds like a different gospel. Never offered to Israel? Excluded Israel as a people and nation? Immutable covenant with God - through who, or what?

Not that anything we say will change your mind, but I think you should have a serious look at your theology. It's starting to sound heretical even to me.

 

[Elin]

The word dispensation, even when it appears in scripture in this context, is unthinkable to you and you love to charge others with your disgruntled definition because it is unimaginative for you to allow anyone to come to an understanding that
a stewardship of grace is connected to an appointed period of time,

And that time is these last days (Heb 1:1-2). There are no other days on earth after the NT Church.

The Biblie knows only two dispensations (Heb 10:9) since Adam (Heb 11:4):
the Old (Heb 8:7, 13) and the New (Lk 22:20; 2Co 3:6; Heb 8:6, 9:15),
both of grace (Ge 15:6; Gal 3:17-18; Heb 11),
the former a dispensation of types and shadows, and the latter a dispensation of the realities
themselves (Heb 10:1; Col 2:17).

I have no problem with understanding dispensations when God initiates at appointed times, by grace and the manifold wisdom of revelation, a work of faith to accomplish his eternal purposes in the life of men through the revelation of his Son. Just as the people of Israel were chosen by promise at the appointed time through Issac and set aside in unbelief at the close of the 69th week, so are the people of the church chosen by promise and placed in Christ until the fulness of the Gentiles be brought into God eternal purpose of redemption.
Then God will turn his undivided attention to the people of Israel

This is a notion of man which is totally contrary to the NT word of God :

The "stewardship of grace" is connected to these last days (Heb 1:1-2).

The Church is the fullness of Christ (Eph 1:23), there is nothing more.

The Church is the fulfillment of the ages (1Co 10:11). There is no other age to come.

The Church is the last times and the end of the ages (1Pe 1:20; Heb 1:2, 9:26).

 

[Linda70]

Canaan was a land of pagans. . .not God's people, whom Joshua had to drive out
in order to possess the land.

You completely dismiss the fact that God promised the children of Israel that He would "drive out" the pagans...which He did.

God promised that Abraham's seed will possess the land reaching to the Euphrates:

Genesis 15:18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:
Genesis 15:19 The Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites,
Genesis 15:20 And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims,
Genesis 15:21 And the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.

Joshua 1:4 From the wilderness and this Lebanon even unto the great river, the river Euphrates, all the land of the Hittites, and unto the great sea toward the going down of the sun, shall be your coast.

The Abrahamic Covenant includes much more land that the modern state of Israel possesses at the present time:

Genesis 13:14 And the LORD said unto Abram, after that Lot was separated from him, Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward:
Genesis 13:15 For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.
Genesis 13:16 And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered.
Genesis 13:17 Arise, walk through the land in the length of it and in the breadth of it; for I will give it unto thee.
Genesis 13:18 Then Abram removed his tent, and came and dwelt in the plain of Mamre, which is in Hebron, and built there an altar unto the LORD.

What am I missing here?

You are totally missing the fact that Israel's future existence, restoration and kingdom is based on God's promise to Abraham (Genesis 12:1-3,7; 13:14-18; 15:18-21).and David (2 Samuel 7:12-17). This is why the kingdom is certain in spite of Israel's rebellion. The covenants are unconditional and eternal.

Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jeremiah 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jeremiah 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jeremiah 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Jeremiah 31:35 Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:
Jeremiah 31:36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
Jeremiah 31:37 Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.

God will literally fulfill the Abrahamic covenant in the future because God is a "covenant keeping" God.

Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Romans 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Romans 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

 

[BradC]

nooooo.....i understand the mystery of the eternal purpose.

it wasn't a mystery gentile free grace church age gap parenthesis.

οἰκονομία, οἰκονομίας, ἡ (οἰκονομέω), from Xenophon, and Plato down, "the management of a household or of household affairs; specifically, the management, oversight, administration, of others' property; the office of a manager or overseer, stewardship": Luke 16:2-4; hence, the word is transferred by Paul in a theocratic sense to the office (duty) intrusted to him by God (the lord and master) of proclaiming to men the blessings of the gospel, 1 Corinthians 9:17; ἡ, οἰκονομία τοῦ Θεοῦ, the office of administrator (stewardship) intrusted by God, Colossians 1:25. universally, administration, dispensation, which in a theocratic sense is ascribed to God himself as providing for man's salvation: αἵτινες ... ἡ οἰκονομίαν Θεοῦ τήν ἐν πίστει, which furnish matter for disputes rather than the (knowledge of the) dispensation of the things by which God has provided for and prepared salvation, which salvation must be embraced by faith, 1 Timothy 1:4 L T Tr WH; ἥν προέθετο ... καιρῶν, which good will he purposed to show with a view to (that) dispensation (of his) by which the times (namely, of infancy and immaturity cf. Galatians 4:1-4) were to be fulfilled, Ephesians 1:9f; ἡ οἰκονομία τῆς χάριτος τοῦ Θεοῦ τῆς δοθείσης μοι, that dispensation (or arrangement) by which the grace of God was granted me, Ephesians 3:2; ἡ οἰκονομία τοῦ μυστηρίου, the dispensation by which he carried out his secret purpose, Ephesians 3:9 G L T Tr WH.


Ephesians 3
The Mystery of the Gospel Revealed
1 For this reason I, Paul, a prisoner for Christ Jesus on behalf of you Gentiles— 2assuming that you have heard of the stewardship of God’s grace that was given to me for you, 3 how the mystery was made known to me by revelation, as I have written briefly. 4 When you read this, you can perceive my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to the sons of men in other generations as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit. 6 This mystery is that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, members of the same body, and partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel.


see: it says right here what the mystery was:

This mystery is that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, members of the same body, and partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel.

gentiles are fellow heirs - with the remnant Israel
members of the same body of called out ones - equal to the remnant Israel
partakers of the promise in Jesus Christ - the promise received by faithful Israel - grafted into the single tree - one fold.
through THE GOSPEL.

so now we know what the mystery was.
now we never, ever have to twist it to be a Plan B; a division of time for a gentile church age parenthesis while blind israel is pushed to the side for 2000 years or anything like that.
we will never ever have any excuse for making the mystery anything other than what Paul said it was.



re-read what the mystery was.



apparently you do, since instead of just understanding that the mystery was about the Gospel of Jesus Christ....how it was revealed to his holy apostles and prophets (jews)...that the gentiles would be fellow heirs (see Peter's vision of the unclean animals for example) through the preaching of the GOSPEL....you overlay John Hagee's outlandish storyline.

THE MYSTERY:
gentiles fellow heirs of the very promises given to Israel.

what other promises would they be partakers of?
what body would they members of if ISRAEL AND THE CHURCH are separate

Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile.

and that's exactly how it happened.

no Plan B parenthesis vanishing gentile dispensation grace church.
Plan A went just they way God said it would. and continues to go the way God said it would.
see Daniel 2.



chosen by promise; but set aside in unbelief?
to die without hope (because God 'partially' blinded them all) for 2000+ years?
i don't know your god.

there's nothing at all in Daniel that says anyone is set aside for some future purpose at the close of week 69.
Daniel says the unbelievers who refused to accept the New Covenant in Christ's Blood would perish in the city when The LORD sent the prince Titus.

Jesus revealed that prophecy to His disciples as they themselves were admiring the Temple and surrounds.
what did Jesus say would happen to it all?
did the remnant Jews escape the city? why yes we're told they did.

anyone can know what dispensationalism teaches by reading your post.
i wonder why modified or other adapted dispensationalists never say anything about the errors you teach.
maybe they agree with you completely?
i don't know....it's just left to anti-dispensationalists to debunk - then to be flamed for it from the sidelines. oh well - Que Sera, Sera.





QUESTION FOR ANYONE: is this what dispensationalism fundamentally teaches?



is the above section another gospel?

There is no debate on the gospel and who it saves through the promise SEED, the problem you and others have is the favor of God upon the Jews of Israel that has been with them since the promise was given to Abraham through Isaac. You think is was annulled by the coming of Christ. God made the promise possible by sending his Son and those who believed in him received the promise of the Spirit and those that do not are blinded and remain in unbelief. How simple that is without prejudice. Those who are in unbelief are partially blinded until the time of the tribulation and second coming and we hope for their salvation now through the mercy of God under the gospel of grace being preached to them by the Gentiles. We are free to preach to the Jews the unsearchable riches of Christ so it might be by faith. Go preach the gospel and leave off your condemning of the brethren that have a burden for the lost that includes both the Jew and the Gentile. The Gentile will have the same opportunity as do the Jews to believe by faith during the great tribulation because both are in unbelief. So as you befriend with the gospel your local Gentile don't forget your local Jew, even if you know they will reject your offer of the once and for all sacrifice. How's that for dispensational compassion for the lost sheep of Israel and the sin infested Gentiles.

 

[Linda70]

There is no debate on the gospel and who it saves through the promise SEED, the problem you and others have is the favor of God upon the Jews of Israel that has been with them since the promise was given to Abraham through Isaac. You think is was annulled by the coming of Christ. God made the promise possible by sending his Son and those who believed in him received the promise of the Spirit and those that do not are blinded and remain in unbelief. How simple that is without prejudice. Those who are in unbelief are partially blinded until the time of the tribulation and second coming and we hope for their salvation now through the mercy of God under the gospel of grace being preached to them by the Gentiles. We are free to preach to the Jews the unsearchable riches of Christ so it might be by faith. Go preach the gospel and leave off your condemning of the brethren that have a burden for the lost that includes both the Jew and the Gentile. The Gentile will have the same opportunity as do the Jews to believe by faith during the great tribulation because both are in unbelief. So as you befriend with the gospel your local Gentile don't forget your local Jew, even if you know they will reject your offer of the once and for all sacrifice. How's that for dispensational compassion for the lost sheep of Israel and the sin infested Gentiles.

Amen Bro. Brad!

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

The Jewish people gave us the Scriptures:

Romans 3:1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
Romans 3:2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

 

[zone]

Ephesians 1:10 10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

The purpose God had in mind is given us in the words, “that in the dispensation of the fulness of times, etc.” The preposition is eis, “with a view to,” indicating what direction the purpose took. The word “dispensation” requires some study. It is not preceded by the definite article. The word is oikonomia, which is made up of oikos,“house,” and nomos, “law.” The compound word means, “the management of a household, or of household affairs, the management, oversight, administration of other’s property, the office of a manager, overseer, stewardship.” Thus, it speaks here of an administration by God of a certain period of human history designated as “the fulness of times.” Our word “dispensation,” used in Bible teaching nomenclature, refers to a certain period of time marked by a certain method in which God administers the affairs of mankind, such as the dispensation of grace, etc. It does not have that meaning here. Instead of referring to a dispensation itself, it speaks of the method by which God administers the particular time referred to in the words “the fulness of times.”

oikonomia primarily signifies "the management of a household or of household affairs" (oikos, "a house," nomos, "a law"); then the management or administration of the property of others, and so "a stewardship," Luke 16:2-4; elsewhere only in the Epistles of Paul, who applies it

(a) to the responsibility entrusted to him of preaching the Gospel, 1 Cor 9:17 (RV, "stewardship," AV, "dispensation");

(b) to the stewardship commited to him "to fulfill the Word of God," the fulfillment being the unfolding of the completion of the Divinely arranged and imparted cycle of truths which are consummated in the truth relating to the Church as the Body of Christ, Col 1:25 (RV and AV, "dispensation"); so in Eph 3:2, of the grace of God given him as a stewardship ("dispensation") in regard to the same "mystery;"

(c) in Eph 1:10; Eph 3:9, it is used of the arrangement or administration by God, by which in "the fullness of the times" (or seasons) God will sum up all things in the heavens and on earth in Christ. In Eph 3:9 some mss. have koinonia, "fellowship," for oikonomia, "dispensation." In 1 Tim 1:4 oikonomia may mean either a stewardship in the sense of 1(a) above, or a "dispensation" in the sense of 1(c). The reading oikodomia, "edifying," in some mss., is not to be accepted. See STEWARDSHIP.

Note: A "dispensation" is not a period or epoch (a common, but erroneous, use of the word), but a mode of dealing, an arrangement, or administration of affairs. Cp. oikonomos, "a steward," and oikonomeo, "to be a steward."

See also : oikonomia

- Vine's Greek New Testament Dictionary

Ephesians 1:10 10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

this has already happened - and is happening until the end.

it includes exactly what it says: "he might gather together in one all things in Christ".

in the fullness of times - we discover God was reconciling us to Himself through His Son - the Redeemer; The Promised Seed; Promised to Adam...and then to Abraham; and repeatedly through His servants. it's always been about Jesus.

it includes the breaking down of the hostility between jew & gentile at The Lord's Coming; the promise going first to the jew...exactly as God said it would.

so this:

Paul had received by revelation a measure of grace according to God's purpose that he was to administer, dispense, oversee and manage in terms of its affairs, its doctrine and the building up of believers as a habitation of God through the Spirit. This was to be done by faith and all under the stewardship of this grace that was given.

This was never offered to Israel nor was it a part of the commonwealth of Israel.

It was solely offered to the church as part of the manifold grace and wisdom of God according to God's purpose to reveal the mystery of Christ and the church.

It excluded Israel as a people and nation

....is blatant heresy.

1 John 2:22
Who is the liar, if not the one who denies that Jesus is the Messiah? This one is the antichrist: the one who denies the Father and the Son.

1 Peter 2:1-8 So be done with every trace of wickedness (depravity, malignity) and all deceit and insincerity (pretense, hypocrisy) and grudges (envy, jealousy) and slander and evil speaking of every kind.2 Like newborn babies you should crave (thirst for, earnestly desire) the pure (unadulterated) spiritual milk, that by it you may be nurtured and grow unto [completed] salvation,
3 Since you have [already] tasted the goodness and kindness of the Lord.
4 Come to Him [then, to that] Living Stone which men tried and threw away, but which is chosen [and] precious in God’s sight.
5 [Come] and, like living stones, be yourselves built [into] a spiritual house, for a holy (dedicated, consecrated) priesthood, to offer up [those] spiritual sacrifices [that are] acceptable and pleasing to God through Jesus Christ.
6 For thus it stands in Scripture: Behold, I am laying in Zion a chosen (honored), precious chief Cornerstone, and he who believes in Him shall never be disappointed or put to shame.
7 To you then who believe is the preciousness; but for those who disbelieve [it is true], The [very] Stone which the builders rejected has become the main Cornerstone,
8 And, A Stone that will cause stumbling and a Rock that will give [men] offense; they stumble because they disobey and disbelieve [God’s] Word, as those [who reject Him] were destined (appointed) to do.
9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a dedicated nation, [God’s] ownpurchased, special people, that you may set forth the wonderful deeds and display the virtues and perfections of Him Who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light.
10 Once you were not a people [at all], but now you are God’s people; once you were unpitied, but now you are pitied and have received mercy.
11 Beloved, I implore you as aliens and strangers and exiles [in this world] to abstain from the sensual urges (the evil desires, the passions of the flesh, your lower nature) that wage war against the soul.
12 Conduct yourselves properly (honorably, righteously) among the Gentiles, so that, although they may slander you as evildoers, [yet] they may by witnessing your good deeds [come to] glorify God in the day of inspection [when God shall look upon you wanderers as a pastor or shepherd looks over his flock].

and typically proceeding from the confusion of dispensationalism...you dare to quote Peter - Apostle to the Jews - as he preaches to the Jews....the identical Gospel Paul taught the Gentiles.

Paul had received by revelation a measure of grace according to God's purpose that he was to administer, dispense, oversee and manage in terms of its affairs, its doctrine and the building up of believers as a habitation of God through the Spirit.

This was never offered to Israel nor was it a part of the commonwealth of Israel.

It was solely offered to the church as part of the manifold grace and wisdom of God according to God's purpose to reveal the mystery of Christ and the church.

It excluded Israel as a people and nation

Ephesians 2:19
So now you Gentiles are no longer strangers and foreigners. You are citizens along with all of God's holy people. You are members of God's family.

......

[Red, i don't expect or need you to ever apologize to me for all the trash you've leveled at me over this critical issue - but you really need to repent....that means making restitution of some sort - i would think that would be to the people who currently agree with you on this false gospel...what excuse remains? i do not know.]

Galatians 1
6I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. 8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. 9As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.

10For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God? Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ.

 

[zone]

There is no debate on the gospel and who it saves through the promise SEED, the problem you and others have is the favor of God upon the Jews of Israel that has been with them since the promise was given to Abraham through Isaac. You think is was annulled by the coming of Christ.

"This was never offered to Israel nor was it a part of the commonwealth of Israel.

It was solely offered to the church as part of the manifold grace and wisdom of God according to God's purpose to reveal the mystery of Christ and the church.

It excluded Israel as a people and nation"

no dear - i'm afraid it's you who have "annulled by the coming of Christ" the promise to Israel.

perhaps the Lord will grant you repentance.
dispensationalism is blinding.

 

[Linda70]

The Mandate to Evangelize Jewish People Based Upon Romans 1:16

Franz Delitzsch, the well-known Old Testament scholar, wrote, “For the church to evangelize the world without thinking of the Jews is like a bird trying to fly with one broken wing.”

The Apostle Paul expresses it this way, For I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek (Romans 1:16).

It is in this thematic verse of Romans that one is able to see the clear progression of evangelism. The rest of the world is not to be ignored, but the first step is to reach out to God’s chosen people. Even the word “first” clearly exhibits that the Jewish people are the first priority for evangelism in time, place and rank.

…for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first…

Of course, Paul is not suggesting that the Roman believers withhold the Gospel from the Gentiles until every Jewish person in the world is reached.

Neither is the Apostle implying that the Gospel has already come to the Jewish people first and therefore preaching the Gospel to the "Jew first" no longer has any particular application to the year 2010. Romans 1:16 is written in the present tense - so let's follow the logic of the text. If the Gospel is still the power of God "unto" salvation and is still for "all who believe," then the Gospel is still "to the Jew first."

The Greek word used by Paul and translated first is protos. It implies a priority, rather then a sequential order of events. The word is also used in Matthew 6:33 where the Lord Jesus reminds us to Seek first the kingdom of God. The kingdom of God should always be sought as a priority in our lives, even as we seek other things. In a similar way, reaching Jewish people with the Gospel must be a priority concern for all who know the Lord Jesus as their Savior.

Paul, the apostle to the Gentiles, focused his ministry on reaching non-Jews with the Gospel message. But this did not lessen his concern for the salvation of the Jewish people. Wherever Paul went in his ministry among the Gentiles, he also tried preached the Gospel to the Jewish people living in that area (Acts 13:13-52; 14:1-5; 18:7-11; 19:8-10). He would regularly attempt to evangelize the Jewish people of a particular city before he spoke to the Gentiles. The salvation of the Jewish people was an ever- present concern for Paul, and his actions in the Book of Acts reveal his understanding of what he wrote in Romans 1:16.

However, all too often Jewish evangelism has become the Great Omission of the Great Commission. This is beginning to change and some church bodies are taking Jewish evangelism more seriously than ever before - and it is my hope that this will continue.

A wonderful story is told of the relationship between John Wilkinson, a Gentile missionary to the Jews who founded the Mildmay Mission to the Jews, and of J. Hudson Taylor, founder of the China Inland Mission (which is now OMF). It seems that every January, Taylor would send Wilkinson a check for a sum of money with a note attached, “To the Jew first.” Wilkinson would then the same amount back to Taylor with a note that read, “And also to the Gentiles.”

I hope this is a true story, though it has almost reached the zenith of myth within the Jewish missions community! However, it does characterize the interdependence that missions to both Jews and Gentiles have in Scripture. One mission does not negate the possibility of fulfilling the other. We can reach Jewish people as a priority founded upon God’s own choice of Abraham’s seed according to the flesh, and still reach the world as commanded by our Messiah prior to the ascension.

The Church and Jewish Evangelism|Chosen People Ministries

Does your church support Jewish missions/evangelism?

 

[zone]

There is no debate on the gospel and who it saves through the promise SEED, the problem you and others have is the favor of God upon the Jews of Israel that has been with them since the promise was given to Abraham through Isaac. You think is was annulled by the coming of Christ. God made the promise possible by sending his Son and those who believed in him received the promise of the Spirit and those that do not are blinded and remain in unbelief. How simple that is without prejudice. Those who are in unbelief are partially blinded until the time of the tribulation and second coming and we hope for their salvation now through the mercy of God under the gospel of grace being preached to them by the Gentiles. We are free to preach to the Jews the unsearchable riches of Christ so it might be by faith.

Go preach the gospel and leave off your condemning of the brethren that have a burden for the lost that includes both the Jew and the Gentile.

The Gentile will have the same opportunity as do the Jews to believe by faith during the great tribulation because both are in unbelief. So as you befriend with the gospel your local Gentile don't forget your local Jew, even if you know they will reject your offer of the once and for all sacrifice. How's that for dispensational compassion for the lost sheep of Israel and the sin infested Gentiles.

phony and desperate.

why would you offer something to Jews you claim God Himself never offered them?

"Paul had received by revelation a measure of grace according to God's purpose that he was to administer, dispense, oversee and manage in terms of its affairs, its doctrine and the building up of believers as a habitation of God through the Spirit.

This was to be done by faith and all under the stewardship of this grace that was given.

This was never offered to Israel nor was it a part of the commonwealth of Israel.

It was solely offered to the church as part of the manifold grace and wisdom of God according to God's purpose to reveal the mystery of Christ and the church.

It excluded Israel as a people and nation" - BradC

Go preach the gospel and leave off your condemning of the brethren that have a burden for the lost that includes both the Jew and the Gentile.

So as you befriend with the gospel your local Gentile don't forget your local Jew, even if you know they will reject

your gospel? no, i don't think so.

question for anyone: is this what dispensationalism fundamentally teaches?

 

[BradC]

no dear - i'm afraid it's you who have "annulled by the coming of Christ" the promise to Israel.

perhaps the Lord will grant you repentance.
dispensationalism is blinding.

You and others have made the term and doctrine of dispensations an evil thing because of your prejudice. I hate to be redundant but it is so obvious when it keep biting and nipping at my leg. The children of Israel will be completely restored to their land (and it is their land by promise) and they will rebuild the temple and Jesus Christ will reign on the throne of David for 1,000 years and there is nothing you can do to prevent it no matter how hard you believe or how many you try to convince otherwise. This is a wonderful restoration of the kingdom for Israel that I and many others are looking forward to with great joy and expectation (in our glorified bodies that is). But you and others have Jerusalem as the great whore of Babylon. That's very interesting especially when it comes to the issue of repentance.

 

[Linda70]

For all those who hate dispensational theology and teach it is false...here is something for you to read:

False Charges Against Dispensationalism

You will probably reject it, but it just might give you "food for thought".