What Laws are still valid to christians

[WomanLovesTX]

You just did call Jesus a liar.

he claimed what came from the law of Old. And what he was trying to show was NOT according to the law of old.

Why do you think that? And can you answer this from that same Matthew 5 discourse with His disciples?

And continuing on the theme of "Looking" and committing a sin of adultery, Jesus also made this command:

Mat 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Was this also a departure from Old Testament commands? Or is it a new command to be done literally?

 

[homwardbound]

I'm not trying to be justified by the Law. Something I've said over and over again.

I CAN'T be justified by the Law. It's impossible.


Jesus told His disciples, the ones who had already given their lives over to Him, to follow the Law and to teach others to do so. I'm not aware of anywhere that Jesus His disciples not to follow the Law.

Here's the relationship between grace and law. I'm saved, justified or made righteous because of the life, death and resurrection of Jesus and the mercy and grace He extends to me.

My following the law is one of my responses to that grace. Not to gain any extra favor in His sight, but because I love Him and want to obey Him.

Thanks, not many understand what you have said
Hebrews 2:3 how shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Tell me how this does away with the seventh Commandment?

Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
Mat 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Mat 5:30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Mat 5:31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:
Mat 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

Show me where this passage cancels...

Exo 20:14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.

wow. And again the one who thinks he is so smart has to come and prove he does not understand what anyone thinks.

don';t you ever get tired of that John??

Who said it cancelled?

What it did, was prove the mere command, do not commit adultry, was not in and of iutself good enough to show us all possible sins of how one commits adultry.

According to the law. i could never physically sleep with another woman, yet every time I see her fantasize about having sex with her, yet I would not (according to the law) be a sinner, because i did not do it.

And of course this...

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

So, if there is more added to the Commandment, it simply fulfills exactly what Christ said He came to do...

Isa 42:21 The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

again, Until you start actually listen to what people are saying, I recommend you stop commenting. You continue to show you have no understanding of what people are saying and continue to say they believe something THEY DO NOT BELIEVE OR TEACH!

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

But you haven't refuted anything. You (like all of the others) simply refuse to answer. That's because it presents an impossible dilemma to the law-cultist mind. Either they have to admit that the law is not binding on believers, or they have to admit that Paul wasn't speaking for Christ. They are afraid to openly admit either, so instead of being forthright and honest, they simply refuse to answer in a simple straightforward manner.

Only the devil is afraid of coming to the light.

[Jesus said to the pharisees,] The baptism of John, whence was it? from heaven, or of men? And [the pharisees] reasoned with themselves, saying, If we shall say, From heaven; he will say unto us, Why did ye not then believe him? But if we shall say, Of men; we fear the people; for all hold John as a prophet. And they answered Jesus, and said, We cannot tell. And he said unto them, Neither tell I you by what authority I do these things. Matthew 21:25-27​

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Why do you think that? And can you answer this from that same Matthew 5 discourse with His disciples?

And continuing on the theme of "Looking" and committing a sin of adultery, Jesus also made this command:

Mat 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Was this also a departure from Old Testament commands? Or is it a new command to be done literally?

what does that have to do with all jesus said?

jesus said.

[SUP]27 [/SUP]“You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery. (this is the command of the law given to moses. to those of old. the prophets and people in Moses day and beyond.

[SUP]28 [/SUP]But I say to you (But I am here to tell you. that that law did not tell you everything you needed to know) that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Jesus did not add to the law. he explained that the law was in and of itself not complete. It is more than just not committing adultry, far more than that!

 

[Josh321]

wow. And again the one who thinks he is so smart has to come and prove he does not understand what anyone thinks.

don';t you ever get tired of that John??

Who said it cancelled?

What it did, was prove the mere command, do not commit adultry, was not in and of iutself good enough to show us all possible sins of how one commits adultry.

According to the law. i could never physically sleep with another woman, yet every time I see her fantasize about having sex with her, yet I would not (according to the law) be a sinner, because i did not do it.




again, Until you start actually listen to what people are saying, I recommend you stop commenting. You continue to show you have no understanding of what people are saying and continue to say they believe something THEY DO NOT BELIEVE OR TEACH!

lol EG you have great patients brother, because they keep going in a circle over and over and over again continuously have seen it for months frustrating sometimes

 

[eternally-gratefull]

lol EG you have great patients brother, because they keep going in a circle over and over and over again continuously have seen it for months frustrating sometimes

yes it is. Maybe one day their eyes will open.. As long as I do not get too angry and go nuts (which if I do. I pray my brothers or sisters will confront me)

 

[john832]

wow. And again the one who thinks he is so smart has to come and prove he does not understand what anyone thinks.

don';t you ever get tired of that John??

Who said it cancelled?

What it did, was prove the mere command, do not commit adultry, was not in and of iutself good enough to show us all possible sins of how one commits adultry.

According to the law. i could never physically sleep with another woman, yet every time I see her fantasize about having sex with her, yet I would not (according to the law) be a sinner, because i did not do it.




again, Until you start actually listen to what people are saying, I recommend you stop commenting. You continue to show you have no understanding of what people are saying and continue to say they believe something THEY DO NOT BELIEVE OR TEACH!

Ah, then you do support the Ten Commandments? All of them are in force? Yes or No? Pretty easy questions.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Tell me how this does away with the seventh Commandment?

Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
Mat 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Mat 5:30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Mat 5:31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:
Mat 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

Show me where this passage cancels...

Exo 20:14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.

Please quit the continual misrepresentations of our position that are taught on law-cultist websites in order to deceive people and promote their agenda. None of us say that the law is done away with or cancelled. We proclaim the manner in which obedience to the law is achieved: faith and love, which are the two preeminent laws of the old and new covenants.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Ah, then you do support the Ten Commandments? All of them are in force? Yes or No? Pretty easy questions.

Yep..

But they can't

1. Show you how to be a good boy
2. Show you all the possible sin you can have in your life
3. Show you what God wants you to do with your life
4. Show you how to love others.
5. make you saved, or help you keep your salvation.

But you have been told this over and over.. You just refuse to see it..

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Ah, then you do support the Ten Commandments? All of them are in force? Yes or No? Pretty easy questions.

All are in force against those who do not walk by the spirit. If you walk by the spirit, you are not under law.

GOD commanded circumcision in the flesh through Moses. Through Paul, Christ forbade circumcision in the flesh as a means of obedience to the law of Moses. Whose words are in force? Moses' or Paul's. Pretty easy question.

 

[Welshman]

This is for eternally grateful and to whomever he is talking too ? I received this of a brother only today and though it quite apt ? I'd rather be a blind man than sees, rather than a seeing man who is blind? Again after following a lot of your posts your knowledge and patients shows Jesus to be working thru you to bring you unto the fullness of faith and truth?, bt I'm afraid brother no matter how hard you've tried, and you have tried brother fair play blindness is still in play bt we are not to entangle ourselves again from the freedom you obviously have I our lord Jesus Christ bless you friend ....

 

[KohenMatt]

But you haven't refuted anything. You (like all of the others) simply refuse to answer. That's because it presents an impossible dilemma to the law-cultist mind. Either they have to admit that the law is not binding on believers, or they have to admit that Paul wasn't speaking for Christ. They are afraid to openly admit either, so instead of being forthright and honest, they simply refuse to answer in a simple straightforward manner.

Only the devil is afraid of coming to the light.

I don't believe the law is binding on believers. I'm not sure what you think I believe it is binding in regards to.
I also believe Paul was speaking for Jesus.

It appears you're trying really hard to put me in a box I'm not in, for the sake of being argumentative.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I don't believe the law is binding on believers. I'm not sure what you think I believe it is binding in regards to.
I also believe Paul was speaking for Jesus.

It appears you're trying really hard to put me in a box I'm not in, for the sake of being argumentative.

No, I'm actually trying to get an answer to a crucial question in order to understand what you believe. You are the only one so far who has had the honesty and courage to respond. Certainly you can understand my frustration when people claim to be brothers, yet refuse to answer a simple question.

 

[royalscot]

Yep..

But they can't

1. Show you how to be a good boy
2. Show you all the possible sin you can have in your life
3. Show you what God wants you to do with your life
4. Show you how to love others.
5. make you saved, or help you keep your salvation.

But you have been told this over and over.. You just refuse to see it.. [/
no and this is why
.Q4In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5which was not made known to people in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets. 6This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.Ephesians 3

in reading this,is it the same as listening to this

1You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? 3Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?

[8]23Before the coming of this faith,[17] we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.Galatians 3
who is the gardain law or jesus christ.

if the law cant tell you how, to do a law. then how can we decearn good and bad. give judge not or be judge, and praying for gidence for your own walk. is then revealed by the Spirit to God’s to his children.

 

[WomanLovesTX]

what does that have to do with all jesus said?

jesus said.

[SUP]27 [/SUP]“You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery. (this is the command of the law given to moses. to those of old. the prophets and people in Moses day and beyond.

[SUP]28 [/SUP]But I say to you (But I am here to tell you. that that law did not tell you everything you needed to know) that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Jesus did not add to the law. he explained that the law was in and of itself not complete. It is more than just not committing adultry, far more than that!

Because Jesus also said Matthew 5:29, immediately following Matthew 5:27-28.

I disagree, respectuflly, that Jesus "explained that the law was in and of itself not complete" and then you said "Jesus did not add to the law." That is an apparent contradiction. Perhaps I am not following in understanding what you are saying.

Did Jesus add to the law or did He fulfill the law?

Deu 12:32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

Deu 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Deu 13:18 When thou shalt hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep all his commandments which I command thee this day, to do that which is right in the eyes of the LORD thy God.

Jos 1:7 Only be thou strong and very courageous, that thou mayest observe to do according to all the law, which Moses my servant commanded thee: turn not from it to the right hand or to the left, that thou mayest prosper whithersoever thou goest.

Pro 30:5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
Pro 30:6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

Did Jesus add to the law or did He fulfill the law?

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

FULFIL = STRONG'S G4137
πληρόω
plēroō
play-ro'-o
From G4134; to make replete, that is, (literally) to cram (a net), level up (a hollow), or (figuratively) to furnish (or imbue, diffuse, influence), satisfy, execute (an office), finish (a period or task), verify (or coincide with a prediction), etc.: - accomplish, X after, (be) complete, end, expire, fill (up), fulfil, (be, make) full (come), fully preach, perfect, supply.


The following scripture also utilizes the word "Pleroo, Strong's G4137" :

Rom 15:19 Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.

Jesus did not come to destroy or anull the law in any way. He came to fully preach as a Master/Rabbi that the law is still valid. Much of the heavy burden and yoke upon the people that the Pharisees and Saducees had enacted, was just plain out "over done" and Jesus came to take that burden off of them by fully preaching the law. As OT scriptures show, Jesus could not add or diminish from the law given to Moses. Jesus kept the law perfectly and His example of how He did so is for our understanding.

You cannot have Jesus adding to the law, as you have stated, so "pleroo" makes total sense.

 

[Josh321]

All are in force against those who do not walk by the spirit. If you walk by the spirit, you are not under law.

GOD commanded circumcision in the flesh through Moses. Through Paul, Christ forbade circumcision in the flesh as a means of obedience to the law of Moses. Whose words are in force? Moses' or Paul's. Pretty easy question.

this . if you walk in the flesh you are free from the law it cannot condemn you anymore because it is fulfilled in you [h=3]Galatians 5:22-23[/h]King James Version (KJV)

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

everytime i post thing you suggest that i'm trying to say it's ok for us to be lawless, ofcourse not we are under the righteousness of God when we are born again it's almost impossible to live in sin again

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Because Jesus also said Matthew 5:29, immediately following Matthew 5:27-28.

I disagree, respectuflly, that Jesus "explained that the law was in and of itself not complete" and then you said "Jesus did not add to the law." That is an apparent contradiction. Perhaps I am not following in understanding what you are saying.

Did Jesus add to the law or did He fulfill the law?

Deu 12:32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

Deu 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Deu 13:18 When thou shalt hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep all his commandments which I command thee this day, to do that which is right in the eyes of the LORD thy God.

Jos 1:7 Only be thou strong and very courageous, that thou mayest observe to do according to all the law, which Moses my servant commanded thee: turn not from it to the right hand or to the left, that thou mayest prosper whithersoever thou goest.

Pro 30:5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
Pro 30:6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

Did Jesus add to the law or did He fulfill the law?

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

FULFIL = STRONG'S G4137
πληρόω
plēroō
play-ro'-o
From G4134; to make replete, that is, (literally) to cram (a net), level up (a hollow), or (figuratively) to furnish (or imbue, diffuse, influence), satisfy, execute (an office), finish (a period or task), verify (or coincide with a prediction), etc.: - accomplish, X after, (be) complete, end, expire, fill (up), fulfil, (be, make) full (come), fully preach, perfect, supply.


The following scripture also utilizes the word "Pleroo, Strong's G4137" :

Rom 15:19 Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.

Jesus did not come to destroy or anull the law in any way. He came to fully preach as a Master/Rabbi that the law is still valid. Much of the heavy burden and yoke upon the people that the Pharisees and Saducees had enacted, was just plain out "over done" and Jesus came to take that burden off of them by fully preaching the law. As OT scriptures show, Jesus could not add or diminish from the law given to Moses. Jesus kept the law perfectly and His example of how He did so is for our understanding.

You cannot have Jesus adding to the law, as you have stated, so "pleroo" makes total sense.

1. There were no vs in the origional text. The origional text has everything written in paragraph form.
2. what he said in vs 29 does not change what he said in the verses I posted to you. Your taking things out of context.

jesus said, The law said do not do this. But I say it goes further than that.

How does saying jesus di dnot change or add to the law contradict itself? jesus was explaining what real sin is. And warning us not to just relate to the law. The law had one purpose. Show us we are guilty. Nothing more nothing less.

And if your going to follow part. you better follow it all. Every bit of it. Not just the ten.. And in doing so. youhave major problems.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yep..

But they can't

1. Show you how to be a good boy
2. Show you all the possible sin you can have in your life
3. Show you what God wants you to do with your life
4. Show you how to love others.
5. make you saved, or help you keep your salvation.

But you have been told this over and over.. You just refuse to see it.. [/
no and this is why
.Q4In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5which was not made known to people in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets. 6This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.Ephesians 3

in reading this,is it the same as listening to this

1You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? 3Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?

[8]23Before the coming of this faith,[17] we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.Galatians 3
who is the gardain law or jesus christ.

if the law cant tell you how, to do a law. then how can we decearn good and bad. give judge not or be judge, and praying for gidence for your own walk. is then revealed by the Spirit to God’s to his children.

You did not quote very well so not sure I understand you.

Can the law tell you how to not commit adultry?
Can it tell you how to not covet
does it show you everything that both of those mean (Ie Physical vs thinking as in matt 5)

God did not give the law to tell them how to be good. he gave it to prove to them they were not good enough.

how? cursed is anyone who does not do ALL the things written in the book of the law.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I don't believe the law is binding on believers. I'm not sure what you think I believe it is binding in regards to.
I also believe Paul was speaking for Jesus.

It appears you're trying really hard to put me in a box I'm not in, for the sake of being argumentative.

what he is trying to show is you can't pick and chose what parts of the law to follow. and what parts to ignore.

The law came as a whole. You can;t say we must do this, but it is ok not to do that. that is taking the law out of context.

if your going to follow one aspect of the law. you better do it all. which would include physical circumcision. Otherwise your not following the law. and in fact taking it out of context.

just what I believe he is saying.