What Laws are still valid to christians

WomanLovesTX · Oct 15, 2013

That is what GRACE is for. Neither you or I can keep the law of Torah perfectly, so therefore we are grace dependent. But here is what the Word says about law and righteousness:

(Psa 119:142) Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.

(Isa 42:21) The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

(Isa 51:7) Hearken unto me, ye that know righteousness, the people in whose heart is my law; fear ye not the reproach of men, neither be ye afraid of their revilings.

royalscot · Oct 15, 2013

eternally-gratefull said:

royalscot said:

define what the book of law is.
and should have read, revealed by the spirit of god to his children.
[8]23Before the coming of this faith,[17] we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.Galatians 3
who is the gardain now, to the children of god, jesus or a book of law.

Welshman · Oct 15, 2013

In answer to whose words are in force either Paul's or Moses? The answer is neither are in force the lords words are in force no ifs no buts no maybee s no nothing ? Jesus is the god of the Old Testament as well as The Lord of the new , it was Jesus talking to Adam not the father? You may well not accept that bt the father has never left his habitation of the highest heaven .. I and the father are one? Bt Jesus divested himself of the heavenly glory for a time ? Then ascended bk to sit at the right hand seat with the father ? No one has ever seen the father except Jesus no one? For he lives in unapproachable light ?

eternally-gratefull · Oct 15, 2013

royalscot said:

eternally-gratefull said:

what is the book of the law?

Deuteronomy 27:26 ‘Cursed is the one who does not confirm all the words of this law by observing them.’ “And all the people shall say, ‘Amen!’

which would include EVERY instruction given in the law

The gardian is the promise of God. That he will fulfill his promise apart from how well we perform by the book of the law. Because we can not perform what is required by the law ot save ourselves, even after we are saved.

eternally-gratefull · Oct 15, 2013

WomanLovesTX said:

what does that have to do with me basing on how good or bad I am by following ten commands?

And the passages you spoke of thier would include ALL the works of the law. Not just the ones people want to follow.

royalscot · Oct 15, 2013

eternally-gratefull said:

royalscot said:

what is the book of the law?

Deuteronomy 27:26 ‘Cursed is the one who does not confirm all the words of this law by observing them.’ “And all the people shall say, ‘Amen!’

which would include EVERY instruction given in the law

The gardian is the promise of God. That he will fulfill his promise apart from how well we perform by the book of the law. Because we can not perform what is required by the law ot save ourselves, even after we are saved.
[/QUOTE]
i was asking why you said yep to the ten comandments.

and this why because of the new covent i said what comandment, give i aready belelieve in jesus not law. but can read it in my bible.(history)

4In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5which was not made known to people in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets. 6This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.Ephesians 3
1You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? 3Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?
[8]
23Before the coming of this faith,[17] we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.Galatian

KohenMatt · Oct 15, 2013

HeRoseFromTheDead said:

If I'm misunderstanding your question, forgive me, but.....

Our obedience or disobedience to the commands in the Law have no effect on our salvation whatsoever.

Jesus told His disciples to follow the law and teach others to do so. If they did, they would be the greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven. If they didn't follow it, and taught others not to, they would be the least in the Kingdom of Heaven. Note that both groups are still in the Kingdom, which to me means in regard to salvation.

Because Jesus said this, and because He is God, this statement is 100% no matter what anyone else would ever say. So then Paul comes along and says some pretty controversial stuff, some of which seems to indicate Believer's shouldn't follow the Law. Now if Paul is truly anointed by God (which he was), and ordained to preach to the Gentiles (which he was), and is an authority on the Gospel (which he was), his words are obviously going to line up with the truth Jesus spoke and was.

So if Jesus tell His disciples to follow the Law forever, Paul is going to agree with Him. Which means all of those controversial verses that seem to indicate Paul is speaking against the Law can't be speaking against Jesus' words. So somewhere along the way, Paul has been taken out of context.

My interpretation? Jesus never indicated obedience to the Law affected salvation. That's what Paul was coming against; those who believed it did. That's why you see a "spiritual scizophrenia" of sorts where Paul seems to say "don't follow the Law", yet He does in several places. It's because he was putting obedience to the Law in its proper context: doing it out of love and with the truth and revelation from the Holy Spirit. Not out of obligation or religious ritual, but because we love him and because it should be our response to His love for us. "If you love me, obey my commands".

Many have spoken on here that if His righteous has been placed on us, and we are redeemed by His grace and filled with His Spirit, we will naturally do the things asked of in the Law. Very true. But that doesn't mean we should ignore the physical application of those commands. I can say all day long that I love my neighbor as myself and truly believe it in my heart, but somewhere along the way, I should physically show that love. Similarly, I can say all day long that I love God and want to give my life to Him. Somewhere along the way though, I should physically show Him that I do. Thus the Law comes into play as a means to that end. Not the only means, but a means nonetheless.

My concern is when people say that if you physically do any part of the Law, you are automatically coming against the grace and mercy and salvation of Jesus. Not true. Just because I keep a physical Sabbath or eat kosher or have my sons circumcised, doesn't negate that salvation. It is merely a response to that salvation. I was married 12 years ago in a covenant-based service. My wife and I are legally married. Am I required to was the dishes, take out the trash and buy her presents on our anniversary in order to be married or to maintain that marriage legally? No. Is my doing those things a response to the love that I have for her that was legally established 12 years ago? Of course. (And as any married person will tell you, life is a whole lot better in a marriage when you're willing to do those things

)

Now of course there are those in this world who will say that you have to do the Law to be righteous before God and attempt to be justified through that. I completely disagree with that. My caution would be to not put everyone Law-keeper in that box. There are many on here who understand and believe the same stance I've taken.

Do I believe I'm better than those who don't follow the Law? No. Do I believe that God loves me more, or that I have special revelation that others don't? No. I trust that sincere Jesus-followers love God to the best degree that they can. And as the Spirit lays on people's heart to do this or that, or to do this command or not, they will. God still does that with me today, even in regards to the law. I recognize we're all a work in progress, maturing in our relationship with God on a daily basis. That means I'm not going to get upset at myself or others for not knowing everything that should be known or lived out.

So my biggest beef with some of these arguments is the implication that if you do any of the things in the Law, you're anti-Jesus. I could care less if anyone in here ever follows anything in the Law. That shouldn't affect our relationship or the fellowship we can have together. But I want people to know that you can do both, be saved by grace, and walk out the commands of the Law. And I want the passer-by in this forum to know that as well. What they decide from there is their own decision.

Whew...a lot of typing there. Sorry for the length, but I wanted to get that off my chest, and hopefully address at 1 time several of the topics that have been brought up here. My request is that those who read this will pray and ask the Spirit for understanding on what I've said here, and not just assume something.

Peace,
Matt

WomanLovesTX · Oct 15, 2013

And a little more on the law from the Word of OT and our benefits:

Psa 37:31 The law of his God is in his heart; none of his steps shall slide.

Psa 40:8 I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.

Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

2Co 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

Psa 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

Psa 40:8 I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.

Psa 94:12 Blessed is the man whom thou chastenest, O LORD, and teachest him out of thy law;

Psa 119:18 Open thou mine eyes, that I may behold wondrous things out of thy law.

Psa 119:32 I will run the way of thy commandments, when thou shalt enlarge my heart.
Psa 119:33 HE. Teach me, O LORD, the way of thy statutes; and I shall keep it unto the end.
Psa 119:34 Give me understanding, and I shall keep thy law; yea, I shall observe it with my whole heart.
Psa 119:44 So shall I keep thy law continually for ever and ever.

Psa 119:53 Horror hath taken hold upon me because of the wicked that forsake thy law.

Psa 119:72 The law of thy mouth is better unto me than thousands of gold and silver.

Psa 119:77 Let thy tender mercies come unto me, that I may live: for thy law is my delight.

Psa 119:97 MEM. O how love I thy law! it is my meditation all the day.

Psa 119:113 SAMECH. I hate vain thoughts: but thy law do I love.

Psa 119:136 Rivers of waters run down mine eyes, because they keep not thy law.

Psa 119:165 Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.

Pro 6:23 For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life:

Pro 28:4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked: but such as keep the law contend with them.

Pro 28:9 He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.

Pro 29:18 Where there is no vision, the people perish: but he that keepeth the law, happy is he.

Isa 5:24 Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumeth the chaff, so their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust: because they have cast away the law of the LORD of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.

Isa 30:9 That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD:

Jer 6:19 Hear, O earth: behold, I will bring evil upon this people, even the fruit of their thoughts, because they have not hearkened unto my words, nor to my law, but rejected it.

Jer 16:11 Then shalt thou say unto them, Because your fathers have forsaken me, saith the LORD, and have walked after other gods, and have served them, and have worshipped them, and have forsaken me, and have not kept my law;

Eze 22:26 Her priests have violated my law, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they shewed difference between the unclean and the clean, and have hid their eyes from my sabbaths, and I am profaned among them.

Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

Amo 2:4 Thus saith the LORD; For three transgressions of Judah, and for four, I will not turn away the punishment thereof; because they have despised the law of the LORD, and have not kept his commandments, and their lies caused them to err, after the which their fathers have walked:

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Mat 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

Luk 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

I am sure there are many more scriptures that tell us the law is good, holy, and for our benefit. The failing of not being able to keep them 100% perfectly is reserved only for the One who could keep them 100% perfectly and He did this not just for Himself, but for all mankind of all the world, once dying and then living forever and forever as our High Priest making intercession for me and for you, because we are still in these bodies of flesh, although beit we are guided and stregnthened by the Holy Spirit in this fleshly life. To be separate from the world, means to unite ourselves with the whole Word of God and not separate Jesus from the Word of OT, as He is the author of the OT.

ET - you appear to be hung up on the idea that because we are unable to keep the OT Law perfectly, and to do all that it says, that it is therefore "NOT GOOD". I see things differently than you do. All the Word is good, holy and perfect, and I can't separate myself from the OT just because I once was a gentile Christan (now an ingrafted Israelite through the blood of Messiah Yeshua). To see the whole Bible as one flawless and seamless flow is the result I recieved when I opened my heart to understanding and not putting false doctrines of separation of Israel from the church or believing that Christ nullified the Law. No, we are all one in God and His Law is for both Israel and the church (who is engrafted into Israel through the blood of Messiah Yeshua.)

Enough said. I don't think anything I share of my heart and how I love the Law of God, fully preached by Rabbi/Master Yeshua/Jesus, will have any effect on your present understanding. I withdraw from any further comment. Shalom.

HeRoseFromTheDead · Oct 15, 2013

GOD told Abraham:

And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant. Genesis 17:14

Moses told the Israelites:

And in the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised. Leviticus 12:3

Jesus told believers in Christ through Paul:

Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God [is something]. 1 Corinthians 7:19

Paul makes it clear that keeping the commandments of GOD has worth. But by calling circumcision nothing, he declares that neither circumcision in the flesh, nor the covenant of circumcision, have any worth. They certainly were important at one time, but by calling circumcision nothing he makes it abundantly clear that in his time (and ours) circumcision in the flesh is not a commandment of GOD.

For those who think that all of the commandments that GOD ever gave have authority over believers in Christ in this present time, how long halt ye between two opinions? If Moses is GOD follow him. If Jesus is GOD follow him.

A double minded man is unstable in all his ways. James 1:8

KohenMatt · Oct 15, 2013

eternally-gratefull said:

I recognize completely that I don't follow all of the commands in the Law, and even the ones that I do know and try to follow, I fail at all the time. But that doesn't mean I stop trying, or ignore it all together.

(And as an aside, both of my sons have been circumcised

)

Josh321 · Oct 15, 2013

KohenMatt said:

that's the thing your not suppose to try anything when we accept Jesus in our hearts he fulfills the commandments in us so we won't be trying to do anything we would just live righteously, that is the righteousness of God

KohenMatt · Oct 15, 2013

Josh321 said:

How are we to live righteously?

HeRoseFromTheDead · Oct 15, 2013

KohenMatt said:

By obeying the law as he commanded. He said that obedience to the law is fulfilled by love. There is the letter (Moses) and there is the spirit (Christ). Choose this day whom you will follow. A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

RickShafer · Oct 15, 2013

All the laws were clearly magnified by Jesus. (Matt.5:20-48)
So who can do them? That is why He sent the Comforter(Holy Spirit) - John 17.
Also , please read I Cor. 1:30.
Who is our righteousness?
Who is our sanctification?
How are we glorified?
Jesus.
Jesus.
Jesus.
(Read John 6) - the work of God is to believe on who He has sent.

KohenMatt · Oct 15, 2013

HeRoseFromTheDead said:

How do we love God?
How do we love man?

HeRoseFromTheDead · Oct 15, 2013

HeRoseFromTheDead said:

Did GOD the father command us (through the apostles) to listen to Moses, or to listen to Christ?

[Christ] was transfigured before them, and his face shone like the sun, and his clothing became bright as the light. And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with him. So Peter answered and said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good that we are here! If you want, I will make here three shelters, one for you and one for Moses and one for Elijah.” While he was still speaking, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and behold, a voice from the cloud said, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased. Listen to him!” Matthew 17:2-5

chubbena · Oct 15, 2013

Josh321 said:

A Otolaryngologist or optometrist are in order, teacher?

RickShafer · Oct 15, 2013

KohenMatt said:

By the Holy Spirit.

HeRoseFromTheDead · Oct 15, 2013

KohenMatt said:

This is the love of GOD: that we keep his commandments.

What are his commandments? That we believe into the name of Christ, and love one another.

How do we love one another? Do to others as you would have them do to you. In other words, don't do things to them that you wouldn't want them doing to you.

Welshman · Oct 15, 2013

We can't live righteously my friend its the righteousness of Jesus living in us ? Permeating our inner parts our sinews our loins our hearts hence god is writing his laws in our inner parts? Aren't these organs our inner parts brother? Our flesh is being told by gods spirit to obey his will in and for our bodies? Not our own will or pulls or impulses , this is gods active word conforming us daily unto a perfect man ? God wants us to surrender our free will to instead obey his will? The flesh and the mind are not inclined to do this? So The Lord tells us if we follow our free will we will destroy ourself as the wages of sin is death ? Yes its true our organs our tissues our eyes ears , skin and bones is being renewed by Jesus for us so we may be as he? Jew or gentile matters not? The issue is our we doing what god asks us? And god is asking us can I come and live with you in your body and make you like me, and is this what you want also? No force its a choice? When Jesus tells the believer all or part of whats true the believer knows Jesus is god he made me a real person he brought me forth he wants me to live for and in him ? This is beyond magic, or good news this is amazing Jesus loves me that little sinner frm the village? Yes Jesus knows me by my name incredible fantastic, words simply dnt suffice? The law didnt teach me any of this no nor man bt the Holy Spirit has revealed all this and more thank you lord for all your mercy I'm not worthy not worthy at all. I deserve death for all gods laws ive broke how can I ever avoid his sentence? Thank god Jesus paid my price and served my sentence for me this fact changed everything for me

What Laws are still valid to christians

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