19 children.... Irresponsible??

[Leilanii]

So i was reading something in the news today, It was about the Duggar family, for anyone who is not aware of this family, they have 18 children none adopted and their pregnant with their 19th.

The article was talking about this woman having a talent for giving birth to that many children. I've heard alot of people say that she is irresponsible for having that many kids, because she cant spend really any quality time with them because there are so many, also because its making the government pay more to support all of them. Now here are my questions, i would love everyones opinion on this.

1. Do you feel this is irresponsible, to have chid after child after child? If you do, explain why. If you dont feel its irresponsible explain why as well.


Also im curious because back in the 18 1900s even way before then it was perfectly normal to have 7 or 8 kids. My grandmother was one of 9 children. There is A russian woman in the guiness book of world records for having 69 chidren. She had 16 sets of twins.

2. Why do you think this is no longer socially acceptable?

 

[carpetmanswife]

ive watched their tv show ...from the way they appear , they seem to have it quite under control, they r a loving happy christian family who supports themselves , hes(dad) big into real estate and their home is paid for, they live debt free...as far as quality time that i know little about but certainly they cant be lonely or bored! lol...i say if you have that gift and yes havin that big of a family with the patience they seem to have ..its a gift..i say more power to ya..especially when they are self supporting ..not living off of the government .

 

[grace]

They do live COMPLETELY debt free....they homeschool all their children and teach them piano and violin...their children seem happy and very kind and respectful.

If this were a family that had no reguard for anything and took handouts constantly, and STILL continued to have children..then I would think it is a concern. I think they are a lovely example of how God provides.

 

[Amy81986]

I love that show. I would love to have as many childeren as that family and still be able to support them. Plus who are we to judge people who let God lead there life, I believe children are a gift from God and should be treated as such.

 

[Sharp]

I wouldn't want to be one of 19 children. I wouldn't get the attention I deserve. I think its not a good idea, unless neither parent has a job, and they have a maid to do all the house work. I think it would be ok then, because the parents would have heaps of time to spend with the children.

 

[chelsers]

I wouldn't want to be one of 19 children. I wouldn't get the attention I deserve. I think its not a good idea, unless neither parent has a job, and they have a maid to do all the house work. I think it would be ok then, because the parents would have heaps of time to spend with the children.

I second this.

 

[pickles]

When I had my five there were those that said that was too many. All is what you choose to see. My five are happy and well loved and are loving , caring and good. I see the same in the family desribed. The more that there are, the more there is. In both laundry and love. God bless, pickles

 

[Harley_Angel]

When you have 17-18 brothers and sisters, I dont' think getting attention is the worse of your problems, maybe privacy is! Honestly, if you can handle that many children and raise them to be caring and Godly, then I don't think there is a number for responsible or irresponsible. I've seen people who having one kid was a huge mistake, and i've seen families of 8-9 who worked out perfectly. Octomom, that was irresponsible...me having a single kid...that's irresponsible, but someone who wants a family and is ready to support and teach them, then, yeah, let them breed!

 

[ChristopherMichael]

Good questions Leilanii!

I don't think it's irresponsible at all to have a large family. I would actually swing the other way, and say it shows a lack of faith in God to use birth control for non-medical reasons. Also, hormonal and IUD types of birth control often work by aborting the young child, which is straight up murder!

As for why people nowadays are against large families, I think people don't really understand the financial and management costs of a large family, so they rag on them. People assume that you'll be broke, and spend all of your time chasing down children. If you recycle clothing between siblings, or just sew your own, and raise the older children to watch over the younger, you'll be fine. Also, a lot of people just don't want to have their lives interfered with. Forget that nonsense though; children rule!


The short of it is that children are a gift from God. If you walk in him, he will take care of you and the children he's given you! Pure and simple.

Psalm 127:3-5
3 Behold, children are a heritage from the Lord,
the fruit of the womb a reward.
4 Like arrows in the hand of a warrior
are the children of one's youth.
5 Blessed is the man
who fills his quiver with them!
He shall not be put to shame
when he speaks with his enemies in the gate.

Matthew 6:31-34
31 Therefore do not be anxious, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ 32 For the Gentiles seek after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them all. 33 But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.
34 “Therefore do not be anxious about tomorrow, for tomorrow will be anxious for itself. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.

 

[Harley_Angel]

"Also, hormonal and IUD types of birth control often work by aborting the young child, which is straight up murder! "

This is very much wrong. Most hormonal and IUD trick your body into thinking it's already pregnant, so you don't ovulate so there is no egg to fertilize. If an egg does slip through, the pill does nothing to abort the egg, fertilized or not.

 

[SandStorm]

"Also, hormonal and IUD types of birth control often work by aborting the young child, which is straight up murder! "

This is very much wrong. Most hormonal and IUD trick your body into thinking it's already pregnant, so you don't ovulate so there is no egg to fertilize. If an egg does slip through, the pill does nothing to abort the egg, fertilized or not.

What the smart young lady said!!! Peace Love N' Rock and Roll....Sands of Storm

 

[ChristopherMichael]

"Also, hormonal and IUD types of birth control often work by aborting the young child, which is straight up murder! "

This is very much wrong. Most hormonal and IUD trick your body into thinking it's already pregnant, so you don't ovulate so there is no egg to fertilize. If an egg does slip through, the pill does nothing to abort the egg, fertilized or not.

Incorrect!

There are primarily two types of IUDs, copper ones, and hormone-releasing ones. The copper devices work twofold. First, they agitate the walls of the uterus to prevent implantation by a fertilized egg. Since the "control" part of "birth control" is taking place after fertilization, it's indistinguishable from abortion. Second, they because copper itself is toxic to sperm, and will often destroy sperm before they get a chance to fertilize the egg.

Now, for the hormone-releasing IUDs, and hormonal birth control pills in general. There are different combinations and types of birth control hormones, but they mostly all work by convincing the body that it's already pregnant. This means that the ovaries stop releasing eggs into the fallopian tubes, the cervix thickens (which prevents sperm from reaching the eggs), and the lining of the uterus thins (which prevents fertilized eggs from implanting). So, it's basically a three-punch combo to prevent pregnancy.

However, and here's the rub. Even when on birth control, an egg can still be released, sperm can still sometimes reach the egg, and the fertilized cell can make contact with the wall and start to divide and begin to develop into a human. When this happens, the hormones in the birth control usually terminate the embryo. This is the same process (basically) that takes place with a morning-after pill (which itself is can just be a concentrated dose of birth-control hormones). Artificial termination of a fertilized and dividing cell-group, as I mentioned earlier, can't really be distinguished from abortion.

The short of it is that if you're using an IUD or a form of hormonal birth control for any significant length of time, and you're having intercourse (without condomes), you will (most likely) wind up aborting a child that tried to grow inside you.

It's a very inconvenient truth, and something that I am very passionate about. If you would like more information, just ASK YOUR DOCTOR. This is the reason that a lot of Christian doctors refuse to provide hormonal birth control for non-medical reasons! Ask them if there's a chance that an embryo will implant while you're on the pill, and that the hormones you're taking will cause your body to abort the embryo. You'll get a "Yes".

Here's a good overview, if you've never heard anything about this before.
http://www.prolife.com/BIRTHCNT.html

Yours in Christ,
- Topher

 

[grace]

"Also, hormonal and IUD types of birth control often work by aborting the young child, which is straight up murder! "

This is very much wrong. Most hormonal and IUD trick your body into thinking it's already pregnant, so you don't ovulate so there is no egg to fertilize. If an egg does slip through, the pill does nothing to abort the egg, fertilized or not.

I have three amazing children! (but have had four pregnancies). I got pregnant with all of them while on birth control. (the pill and the shot) The case with me is that my body was not *tricked*..lol.....my body does not recognize synthetic estrogen...so I would still ovulate and so I kept getting pregnant.

 

[Harley_Angel]

I'm about to make one of "those" appointments, and when I do, I'll ask my doctor and come back with some professional evidence. But honestly, once an embryo is fertalized and implanted, the hormones your body produces change considerably, which is why a lot of women get morning sickness. Once your body goes through a hormonal change, the hormones, estrogen and progestrone stop working because our bodies override them. Your own body has just as much of a chance of aborting a fertalized egg off the pills as it would on the pills. I think the misconception is that some people on pills do get pregnant, and their body has a miscarriage and the pill is to blame. The morning after pill also isn't an abortion pill. It's designed to flush out sperm and an egg before it can be fertilized which is why it has to be done within 48 hours. Once the embryo attaches, the morning after pill can't do anything. Morning after pills are NOT abortion pills, they are what I like to call post-consideration contraceptive.

Women can have many many miscarriages throughout their life from a VARIETY of different factors. If a birth control pill is one of those factors, then just add it to the LONG LONG list of things in this world that could POTENTIALLY maybe be a part of that. For the most part it's our body that flushes the embryo, not the pill.

 

[Harley_Angel]

See Grace, I believe if God wants us to have children in our lives, no amount of birth control is going to stop it. We can plan and chose up to a point, but when God wants it, He gets it. I've known people who were on birth control, had a vesectomy, and still used a condom and the girl STILL got pregnant.

 

[ChristopherMichael]

I'm about to make one of "those" appointments, and when I do, I'll ask my doctor and come back with some professional evidence.

I'm glad for you! Most people wouldn't go so far to check things things out for themselves, so that's pretty cool. Be sure to ask him/her specifically if birth control hormones could result in aborting a fertilized egg attached to the uterine wall, or even prevent it from implanting in the first place. Specific questions get specific answers, and I'm sure those are the kind you probably want.

Your own body has just as much of a chance of aborting a fertalized egg off the pills as it would on the pills.

Your doctor will let you know how all this works, but there's a fundamental problem with your reasoning here. It's a question of agency. If your body aborts a baby when you're not on BC, it falls within the realm of a natural occurrence. If you're taking artificial hormones to simulate pregnancy, and that results in the death of a fertilized cell or embryo, you're the one terminating your unborn child. It's like the difference between a child dying from carbon monoxide poisoning, and a child dying form a mother locking it in a running car in a garage. The mechanism and end-result are the same for both, but it's who's responsible that's different.

The morning after pill also isn't an abortion pill. It's designed to flush out sperm and an egg before it can be fertilized which is why it has to be done within 48 hours. Once the embryo attaches, the morning after pill can't do anything.

This is not correct. A hormone pill is not capable of functioning in any sort of flushing-out manner. As I mentioned in an earlier post, hormone pills work by thickening the cervix, preventing the release of eggs, and creating inhospitable conditions in the uterus for the implantation of a fertilized egg. Since the sperm are most likely past the cervix, the morning after pill can really only work through the last two mechanisms. If the egg has already been released (comes down to a game of chance at that point), then the hormones work to artificially prevent the egg from implanting. This is abortion. If the egg does manage to implant, the sharp spike in hormone levels can cause it to abort a newly implanted fetus (not just from that occasion) to abort. This is also abortion.

The group "Canadian Physicians for Life" has a great breakdown of how the morning after pill actually works, and some of the other risks associated with it.

http://www.physiciansforlife.ca/html/life/abortion/articles/morningafterpill.html

Yours in Christ
- Topher

 

[Harley_Angel]

Thanks Topher, I'll check out those links.

 

[pickles]

I have three amazing children! (but have had four pregnancies). I got pregnant with all of them while on birth control. (the pill and the shot) The case with me is that my body was not *tricked*..lol.....my body does not recognize synthetic estrogen...so I would still ovulate and so I kept getting pregnant.

How very true about God giving us our children. I had my five while practicing birth controll. Guess thats why its called practicing. Smiles The mirical part is that if I had not had my children when I did, I may have never had children. I had multiple tumors in my uterus and shortly after my last child I had a hysterectomy. Our Lord God knows very well what is good. God bless, pickles

 

[Cobblepot]

Oh, I don't know. How many TV's do they have?

 

[HollyC]

Definately not irresponsible. I love that show. It shows me and encourages me to achieve that type of family. All those children are well taken care of...not on government cheese, own their own homes, debt free and first and foremost: Godly. Everything they do is to Glorify God. I can't fault anyone for that. They could have 30 children and its still fantastic. We need more children and families like that in the world.