What Laws are still valid to christians
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please watch out on the wish to suffer, rather suffer to learn to truth, see what flesh suffers to for us to be perfected in God. For the world comes against the believer to stop him the believer in trusting God as what the book of Job is about, and Job stood fast as in not to curse God,
suffering in this body brings about God's perfection working through us. Us self out of the way
Hope this helps in your walk Brother
suffering in this body brings about God's perfection working through us. Us self out of the way
Hope this helps in your walk Brother
Hizikyah, if your born of God the law is fulfilled in you, you will not go against it, in other words.. your life will be BASED on it AUTOMATICALLY because it is written in our hearts and mind, i think i ran out of examples to explain to you what that means, what is happening here is that when you see the word fulfill you think that it means yea we can now follow the commandments physically, but no it's in you.. your life will be based upon it that is the fulfillment, that is why it is called led by the spirit, if your about to enter a situation that is wrong the spirit will lead you out of it
Through belief in the finished work of Christ Jesus at the cross, first the death for sins committed by all, unto those that believe he took it all at his death , to make you holy before Father, and through this being forgiven we hold up this sacrifice in the utmost appreciation to God for this, and agree to God that we need to be dead to self flesh that is selfish. And alive to God
So by belief through death of Christ at the cross we are to see, now the resurrected Christ forever alive for us to be born again.
Now for this to take place Christ through his bodies death on the cross had to make us perfect before new life could be possible
God the Father who knows no sin, and so we are by Christ death made perfect so Father seeing us as such deals with us on the Basis of our new nature. If it were on sin, that he does not see now, thanks be to the son, otherwise we would just plainly be dead without new life, being taught to us by Father not man
Colossians 1:22 in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
Once one sees this as truth, is there any improvement any of us can ever do? if that scripture is true, I think it is true, how about you.
therefore see Romans 6 where it starts out about how then being born again we should not sin anymore, being now dead to flesh sin and alive to God. Again if one does not believe this to be true, then there is no reception as this is true, just not true if one does not believe God
Too simple!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So by belief through death of Christ at the cross we are to see, now the resurrected Christ forever alive for us to be born again.
Now for this to take place Christ through his bodies death on the cross had to make us perfect before new life could be possible
God the Father who knows no sin, and so we are by Christ death made perfect so Father seeing us as such deals with us on the Basis of our new nature. If it were on sin, that he does not see now, thanks be to the son, otherwise we would just plainly be dead without new life, being taught to us by Father not man
Colossians 1:22 in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
Once one sees this as truth, is there any improvement any of us can ever do? if that scripture is true, I think it is true, how about you.
therefore see Romans 6 where it starts out about how then being born again we should not sin anymore, being now dead to flesh sin and alive to God. Again if one does not believe this to be true, then there is no reception as this is true, just not true if one does not believe God
Too simple!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
one's effort in the flesh is nailed to the cross, for no flesh in his sight can ever please Father, only Christ Jesus's did this, so we can be alive to God in the Spirit of God through the cross. The full cross that includes the resurrection in order to give us new life in the Spirit of God. Dead to flesh efforts to obey and alive to God's done work in us and through us so that we are no longer triers we are doers of the Love of God that God imputed into us those that believe God, about his Son
Mattithyah 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your hneighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."
If any of the following are broken, one of these two is broken:
Deuteronomy 10:16, "Therefore circumcise the foreskin of your heart, and do not be stiff-necked any longer."
Love in practice, not in jaw flappin:
Leviticus 19:9-18,29-31 "When you reap the harvest of your land, you shall not completely harvest the corners of your field, nor shall you gather the gleanings of your harvest. You shall not glean your vineyard, nor shall you gather every grape of your vineyard. You shall leave them for the poor and the stranger; I am Yahweh your Father. You shall not steal, nor deal falsely, nor lie one to another. Do not vow falsely with My Name, and so profane the Name of your Father. I am Yahweh. You shall not defraud your neighbor, nor rob him. Do not hold back the wages of a hired man overnight. Do not curse the deaf or put a stumblingblock in front of the blind; but reverence your Father. I am Yahweh. Do not pervert judgment: You shall not show partiality to the poor, nor honor to the person of the great. In righteousness you shall judge your neighbor fairly. You shall not go about tale-bearing or slandering among your people. Do not do anything that endangers your neighbor's life. I am Yahweh. You shall not hate your neighbor in your heart. Rebuke your brother or your sister frankly, so you will not share in his or her guilt. Do not seek revenge nor bear a grudge against one of your own people; but you shall love your neighbor; whether a brother or an enemy, as yourself. I am Yahweh.Do not prostitute your daughter, to cause her to be a harlot; or the land will fall into harlotry, and the land will become full of wickedness. Do not turn to mediums nor familiar spirits. Do not seek after them, to be defiled by them. I am Yahweh. You shall stand up before the gray headed, and you shall honor the presence of an Elder or Teacher; thereby giving reverence to your Heavenly Father. I am Yahweh. If a stranger lives with you in your and, do not mistreat him. The stranger living with you must be treated as one of your native-born, and you shall love him as yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt. I am Yahweh. Do not use dishonest standards when measuring length, weight, or quantity. You shall have honest balances, honest weights, an honest ephah; a dry measure, and an honest in; a liquid measure. I am Yahweh your Father Who brought you out of the land of Egypt; Therefore, you must observe all My statutes and My judgments, and perform and do them. I am Yahweh."
If any of the following are broken, one of these two is broken:
Deuteronomy 10:16, "Therefore circumcise the foreskin of your heart, and do not be stiff-necked any longer."
Love in practice, not in jaw flappin:
Leviticus 19:9-18,29-31 "When you reap the harvest of your land, you shall not completely harvest the corners of your field, nor shall you gather the gleanings of your harvest. You shall not glean your vineyard, nor shall you gather every grape of your vineyard. You shall leave them for the poor and the stranger; I am Yahweh your Father. You shall not steal, nor deal falsely, nor lie one to another. Do not vow falsely with My Name, and so profane the Name of your Father. I am Yahweh. You shall not defraud your neighbor, nor rob him. Do not hold back the wages of a hired man overnight. Do not curse the deaf or put a stumblingblock in front of the blind; but reverence your Father. I am Yahweh. Do not pervert judgment: You shall not show partiality to the poor, nor honor to the person of the great. In righteousness you shall judge your neighbor fairly. You shall not go about tale-bearing or slandering among your people. Do not do anything that endangers your neighbor's life. I am Yahweh. You shall not hate your neighbor in your heart. Rebuke your brother or your sister frankly, so you will not share in his or her guilt. Do not seek revenge nor bear a grudge against one of your own people; but you shall love your neighbor; whether a brother or an enemy, as yourself. I am Yahweh.Do not prostitute your daughter, to cause her to be a harlot; or the land will fall into harlotry, and the land will become full of wickedness. Do not turn to mediums nor familiar spirits. Do not seek after them, to be defiled by them. I am Yahweh. You shall stand up before the gray headed, and you shall honor the presence of an Elder or Teacher; thereby giving reverence to your Heavenly Father. I am Yahweh. If a stranger lives with you in your and, do not mistreat him. The stranger living with you must be treated as one of your native-born, and you shall love him as yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt. I am Yahweh. Do not use dishonest standards when measuring length, weight, or quantity. You shall have honest balances, honest weights, an honest ephah; a dry measure, and an honest in; a liquid measure. I am Yahweh your Father Who brought you out of the land of Egypt; Therefore, you must observe all My statutes and My judgments, and perform and do them. I am Yahweh."
W
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Moses Ethiopian Wife
"And Miriam and Aaron spoke against Moses because of the Ethiopian woman whom he had married; for he had married an Ethiopian woman" (Num. 12.1).
Every now and again someone asks how it could be that Moses, the champion of the Lord for the chosen people, could have married an Ethiopian who was therefore of the descendants of Ham, youngest son of Noah. There was strong objection in Israel to such marriages although the assumption that Moses had married before he left Egypt only raises the second question how he later came to marry Zipporah the Midianite when he apparently had left one wife back in Egypt. The word "Ethiopian" is the Greek equivalent of the Hebrew word "Cush" who in Genesis 10.8 is recorded as one of the sons of Ham. The Cushites became the people known to history as the Sumerians. Eventually many of their tribes migrated, some down the eastern side of the Persian Gulf and into India, where they established the Indus civilization which endured from about 2000 BC to 1500 BC. Others moved down the western side and across Arabia and over the Red Sea into Africa where they became the people known to the Egyptians as Cush, living mainly in what is now the Sudan. Jewish legend has it that Moses when at the court of Pharaoh led an invading army into Cush and returned in triumph but there is probably no truth in that.
"Ethiopia" in the A.V. is taken from old Anglo-Saxon versions that were based largely on the Greek Septuagint. It used this word to translate the Hebrew "Cush", but to the Greeks the whole of the southern world from Africa to India was denoted by the word Ethiopia (English travellers as late as the 17th Century still used the name in that sense). The Egyptians despised the Cushites and called them "vile Cush" and lost no opportunity of waging war on them. It would have been social suicide for Moses to marry into that nation while still at the Egyptian court and most unlikely. Another factor is that by deduction from Scripture records, at that time in history a man was rarely below the age of fifty at marriage, and since Moses fled to Midian at age forty, his marriage whilst there and return forty years later with two sons is perfectly logical. There is no evidence aside from this questionable statement in Num. 12.1 that he had been married before.
Zipporah, his Midianite wife (Exodus 2.15-22) was a descendant of Abraham through his wife Keturah. She was therefore of Semitic race and there would be no valid objection on that score against the union. Midianites were scattered all over the lands south of Canaan and the tribal name of the Sinai Midianites was Cushan (referred to only once in the O.T. in Habakkuk 3.7 "I saw the tents of Cushan in affliction and the curtains of the land of Midian did tremble". The almost certain explanation of Num. 12.1 is that by an early copyist's mistake Cushan was turned into Cush by the omission of the final N. The archaic Hebrew N in the days before Ezra was a very insignificant little "squiggle" and could easily have been missed. On this basis the text tells us that Moses had married a Cushan Midianite, which is what Exodus 2 says anyway. The objection raised by Aaron and Miriam to the nationality of his wife was probably evoked by jealousy. They feared that one of Moses' own sons by Zipporah would be appointed by him to succeed him as Israel's leader when the time came. They, and probably most of their fellows, would much prefer a full blooded son of Israel. They need not have worried; when the time did come, the Lord brought forth His own choice for leader, the stalwart Joshua. This is one of the lessons we all find hard to learn, that the Lord is perfectly able to raise up His own instrument to carry on any section of His work when the torch begins to fall from failing hands. We need not plan and devise and agonize for the continuance of that which He has left in our charge for a space of time.
One has to realise that many of the women of the Old Testament history were not of Israel, although of Semitic race Isaac married Rebecca who was of Nahor, brother to Abraham. Jacob married Rachel and Leah of the same stock. Salmon prince of Judah at the entry to the Land married Rahab of Jericho whose name shows she was Semitic, either of Abraham through Esau, Ishmael or Keturah, or of Nahor. Tamar who carried on the Messianic line from Judah was not of Jacob but her name too reveals that she was Semitic. Ruth who married Boaz was a Moabite, from Lot the son of Haran another brother of Abraham. There was no inconsistency therefore in the case of Moses.
There are theories that assert that the name "Cush" means black and that he was a black man, the ancestor of the African races. While it is true that purely Hebrew names often have a meaning which can be traced by the construction of the word as for example Jesus in Greek is the Hebrew Joshua, or more properly Jehoshua, which means God is Saviour, the same practice cannot be applied to non-Hebrew names. There is no Hebrew word closely resembling Cush that means black. Cush was given his name long before there were any Hebrews or any Hebrew language. He was certainly the ancestor of the Sumerians and that language is the oldest one that is now known, but the Sumerian word for black is "gig" - not very similar. No one knows what the nature of the language spoken by Noah and his sons was and only that later languages were derived from it. It is probably true that many of the black peoples of Africa are descended from Cush but their black colour developed after they had settled in Africa and not before. The various, colours of men in different climes are the result of long habitation under specialised conditions of climate and food, and probably other factors not yet completely understood. There is no reason for thinking that Noah had grandsons in a variety of colours,. In fact there is evidence to the contrary. According to Genesis 10, Cush had a brother named Phut. The Phutites in later generations also crossed into Africa and colonised the north, right across the continent to the Atlantic in days when the present Sahara desert was a fertile well-watered country abounding in forests and animal life. Today there are cave-paintings still existing in that barren and uninhabited waste executed by, and depicting, those Phutites of four thousand years ago but they are not shown as black. They are painted with red and yellow skins; their descendants today are deep brown.
There is no means of determining the colour of the first men, nor yet that of Noah and his sons. The white races tend to think that they must have been white; but the Chinese insist, quite as logically, that they were yellow. We just do not know. What we do know is that God "hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on the face of the earth. (Acts 17.16) and that all men everywhere, of whatever colour, are able to propagate their own kind with each other.. Perhaps the Lord, who is the supreme Artist in creation, sees some advantage in having men ultimately develop five outward colours, whilst still being men inside, just as He has ordained variety in the rest of His Creation.
Coming back to the main point, there is not much doubt that the only woman Moses married, the mother of his children was the daughter of the Midianite Chieftain. Jethro gave him hospitality during his term of exile and proved to be as much a reverential worshipper of the true God as was Moses himself.
AOH
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Moses Ethiopian Wife
"And Miriam and Aaron spoke against Moses because of the Ethiopian woman whom he had married; for he had married an Ethiopian woman" (Num. 12.1).
Every now and again someone asks how it could be that Moses, the champion of the Lord for the chosen people, could have married an Ethiopian who was therefore of the descendants of Ham, youngest son of Noah. There was strong objection in Israel to such marriages although the assumption that Moses had married before he left Egypt only raises the second question how he later came to marry Zipporah the Midianite when he apparently had left one wife back in Egypt. The word "Ethiopian" is the Greek equivalent of the Hebrew word "Cush" who in Genesis 10.8 is recorded as one of the sons of Ham. The Cushites became the people known to history as the Sumerians. Eventually many of their tribes migrated, some down the eastern side of the Persian Gulf and into India, where they established the Indus civilization which endured from about 2000 BC to 1500 BC. Others moved down the western side and across Arabia and over the Red Sea into Africa where they became the people known to the Egyptians as Cush, living mainly in what is now the Sudan. Jewish legend has it that Moses when at the court of Pharaoh led an invading army into Cush and returned in triumph but there is probably no truth in that.
"Ethiopia" in the A.V. is taken from old Anglo-Saxon versions that were based largely on the Greek Septuagint. It used this word to translate the Hebrew "Cush", but to the Greeks the whole of the southern world from Africa to India was denoted by the word Ethiopia (English travellers as late as the 17th Century still used the name in that sense). The Egyptians despised the Cushites and called them "vile Cush" and lost no opportunity of waging war on them. It would have been social suicide for Moses to marry into that nation while still at the Egyptian court and most unlikely. Another factor is that by deduction from Scripture records, at that time in history a man was rarely below the age of fifty at marriage, and since Moses fled to Midian at age forty, his marriage whilst there and return forty years later with two sons is perfectly logical. There is no evidence aside from this questionable statement in Num. 12.1 that he had been married before.
Zipporah, his Midianite wife (Exodus 2.15-22) was a descendant of Abraham through his wife Keturah. She was therefore of Semitic race and there would be no valid objection on that score against the union. Midianites were scattered all over the lands south of Canaan and the tribal name of the Sinai Midianites was Cushan (referred to only once in the O.T. in Habakkuk 3.7 "I saw the tents of Cushan in affliction and the curtains of the land of Midian did tremble". The almost certain explanation of Num. 12.1 is that by an early copyist's mistake Cushan was turned into Cush by the omission of the final N. The archaic Hebrew N in the days before Ezra was a very insignificant little "squiggle" and could easily have been missed. On this basis the text tells us that Moses had married a Cushan Midianite, which is what Exodus 2 says anyway. The objection raised by Aaron and Miriam to the nationality of his wife was probably evoked by jealousy. They feared that one of Moses' own sons by Zipporah would be appointed by him to succeed him as Israel's leader when the time came. They, and probably most of their fellows, would much prefer a full blooded son of Israel. They need not have worried; when the time did come, the Lord brought forth His own choice for leader, the stalwart Joshua. This is one of the lessons we all find hard to learn, that the Lord is perfectly able to raise up His own instrument to carry on any section of His work when the torch begins to fall from failing hands. We need not plan and devise and agonize for the continuance of that which He has left in our charge for a space of time.
One has to realise that many of the women of the Old Testament history were not of Israel, although of Semitic race Isaac married Rebecca who was of Nahor, brother to Abraham. Jacob married Rachel and Leah of the same stock. Salmon prince of Judah at the entry to the Land married Rahab of Jericho whose name shows she was Semitic, either of Abraham through Esau, Ishmael or Keturah, or of Nahor. Tamar who carried on the Messianic line from Judah was not of Jacob but her name too reveals that she was Semitic. Ruth who married Boaz was a Moabite, from Lot the son of Haran another brother of Abraham. There was no inconsistency therefore in the case of Moses.
There are theories that assert that the name "Cush" means black and that he was a black man, the ancestor of the African races. While it is true that purely Hebrew names often have a meaning which can be traced by the construction of the word as for example Jesus in Greek is the Hebrew Joshua, or more properly Jehoshua, which means God is Saviour, the same practice cannot be applied to non-Hebrew names. There is no Hebrew word closely resembling Cush that means black. Cush was given his name long before there were any Hebrews or any Hebrew language. He was certainly the ancestor of the Sumerians and that language is the oldest one that is now known, but the Sumerian word for black is "gig" - not very similar. No one knows what the nature of the language spoken by Noah and his sons was and only that later languages were derived from it. It is probably true that many of the black peoples of Africa are descended from Cush but their black colour developed after they had settled in Africa and not before. The various, colours of men in different climes are the result of long habitation under specialised conditions of climate and food, and probably other factors not yet completely understood. There is no reason for thinking that Noah had grandsons in a variety of colours,. In fact there is evidence to the contrary. According to Genesis 10, Cush had a brother named Phut. The Phutites in later generations also crossed into Africa and colonised the north, right across the continent to the Atlantic in days when the present Sahara desert was a fertile well-watered country abounding in forests and animal life. Today there are cave-paintings still existing in that barren and uninhabited waste executed by, and depicting, those Phutites of four thousand years ago but they are not shown as black. They are painted with red and yellow skins; their descendants today are deep brown.
There is no means of determining the colour of the first men, nor yet that of Noah and his sons. The white races tend to think that they must have been white; but the Chinese insist, quite as logically, that they were yellow. We just do not know. What we do know is that God "hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on the face of the earth. (Acts 17.16) and that all men everywhere, of whatever colour, are able to propagate their own kind with each other.. Perhaps the Lord, who is the supreme Artist in creation, sees some advantage in having men ultimately develop five outward colours, whilst still being men inside, just as He has ordained variety in the rest of His Creation.
Coming back to the main point, there is not much doubt that the only woman Moses married, the mother of his children was the daughter of the Midianite Chieftain. Jethro gave him hospitality during his term of exile and proved to be as much a reverential worshipper of the true God as was Moses himself.
AOH
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W
Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull
jesus tells us in matt 5 to follow more than the law. The law is not complete. as he said, The OLD law says this, But I tell you, it includes this.
And if your gonna follow law. Again, you should follow every part. we can;t pick and chose what to follow and what not to
Why do you insist that one who is willfully obedient to following the law SHOULD FOLLOW EVERY PART? You say "We can't pick and choose what to follow and what not to".
Jesus did not follow ALL OF THE LAW!!!
There are commandments for women. Jesus is not a woman.
There are commandments for farmers. Jesus was not a farmer.
There are commandments for judges and Sanhedrin. Jesus was not a judge or of the Sanhedrin.
There are commandments for the Levites. Jesus was not a Levite.
And on and on we can go.
Jesus did not do the whole Law of God! and NEVER will.
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
How is "fulfil" defined? Some believe it means "to do away with". Others believe it means He came "to fully preach the Word of God".
FULFIL - STRONG'S G4137
πληρόω
plēroō
play-ro'-o
From G4134; to make replete, that is, (literally) to cram (a net), level up (a hollow), or (figuratively) to furnish (or imbue, diffuse, influence), satisfy, execute (an office), finish (a period or task), verify (or coincide with a prediction), etc.: - accomplish, X after, (be) complete, end, expire, fill (up), fulfil, (be, make) full (come), fully preach, perfect, supply.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Has heaven and earth passed? No! So the law cannot be all fulfilled, can it?
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
What on earth is Jesus saying? That we don't have to keep or teach the commandments? So whose authority do we follow? If we believe Paul was teaching that the OT commandments are done away with or nailed to the cross (meaning law of sin and death was nailed to the cross....the record of our sins was nailed to the cross), then it is our understanding what Paul taught that is screwed or twisted.
Peter said 2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
No! I don't have to follow "every part" of the law as you keep repeating over and over again. I think you do so ignorantly. You say you had a bad experience in a fellowship of believers who kept the law but were poor Christians? So sad to hear that. My fellowship of believers that we study together Old and New Testament, all of the Word, both being the Whole word of God and is ALL APPLICABLE to our lives today.
There is no possible way for each individual to keep ALL THE LAW. Jesus is our best example, and He couldn't. So why do you accuse others of being wrong when it is impossible to keep all of the laws, many which are not applicable? You posted this yesterday womanlovestx and as il show you say something completely different today?
jesus tells us in matt 5 to follow more than the law. The law is not complete. as he said, The OLD law says this, But I tell you, it includes this.
And if your gonna follow law. Again, you should follow every part. we can;t pick and chose what to follow and what not to
Why do you insist that one who is willfully obedient to following the law SHOULD FOLLOW EVERY PART? You say "We can't pick and choose what to follow and what not to".
Jesus did not follow ALL OF THE LAW!!!
There are commandments for women. Jesus is not a woman.
There are commandments for farmers. Jesus was not a farmer.
There are commandments for judges and Sanhedrin. Jesus was not a judge or of the Sanhedrin.
There are commandments for the Levites. Jesus was not a Levite.
And on and on we can go.
Jesus did not do the whole Law of God! and NEVER will.
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
How is "fulfil" defined? Some believe it means "to do away with". Others believe it means He came "to fully preach the Word of God".
FULFIL - STRONG'S G4137
πληρόω
plēroō
play-ro'-o
From G4134; to make replete, that is, (literally) to cram (a net), level up (a hollow), or (figuratively) to furnish (or imbue, diffuse, influence), satisfy, execute (an office), finish (a period or task), verify (or coincide with a prediction), etc.: - accomplish, X after, (be) complete, end, expire, fill (up), fulfil, (be, make) full (come), fully preach, perfect, supply.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Has heaven and earth passed? No! So the law cannot be all fulfilled, can it?
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
What on earth is Jesus saying? That we don't have to keep or teach the commandments? So whose authority do we follow? If we believe Paul was teaching that the OT commandments are done away with or nailed to the cross (meaning law of sin and death was nailed to the cross....the record of our sins was nailed to the cross), then it is our understanding what Paul taught that is screwed or twisted.
Peter said 2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
No! I don't have to follow "every part" of the law as you keep repeating over and over again. I think you do so ignorantly. You say you had a bad experience in a fellowship of believers who kept the law but were poor Christians? So sad to hear that. My fellowship of believers that we study together Old and New Testament, all of the Word, both being the Whole word of God and is ALL APPLICABLE to our lives today.
There is no possible way for each individual to keep ALL THE LAW. Jesus is our best example, and He couldn't. So why do you accuse others of being wrong when it is impossible to keep all of the laws, many which are not applicable? You posted this yesterday womanlovestx and as il show you say something completely different today?
W
Please tell me sister which one is correct? Jesus did not do all the law? Or as you say here Jesus did fulfill all the law , you seem to be forgetting what you wrote only 24 hr ago , clarity is required here sister ? And a piece of advice if one can accept in love if you cnt divide the word of god properly I wouldn't attempt to divide it at all rather I'd seek to learn first then offer your view. There are many learned men and women on here so I think a time of learning is needed first and then perhaps you'll have a better understanding in the word . Amen
W
Not posted by eternally grateful as first post stated bt by womanlovestx ? I missed the first lines so apologies to eternally grateful my friend your response when we messaged yesterday agree with my original reply as we mentioned to each other last night? But I do think womanlovestx needs to clarify her status on this one even since yesterday the primacy of law is still at play in the posts and not one reply of many posts has altered the approach hence I said before 100+ pages plus and still no further forward? We either have loads members who dnt have a clue here or a refusal by some to listen no matter what? I know which I believe to be true ... Amen
it's pretty hard to explain, but take it this way, use to covet can't anymore after jesus change me, that's just the thing it's almost impossible to do things like that after God changes someone because the law is fulfilled in them, look at the testimony for example the guy had a gun use to steal probably had many woman but look what happen to him when God changed him, see what i'm getting at? because the law was fulfilled in him it's almost impossible to go back to that life, do you atleast understand what i'm trying to say? really trying my best to explain it, i can only say this from my experience also
To begin, it should be understood that the word "ordinances" in Colossians 2:14 and Ephesians 2:15 do not refer to God's laws. It is translated from the Greek word dogma and refers generally to opinions, judgments, and decrees. Such ordinances could be public decrees by government officials or religious decrees by religious officials. We should, however, treat these two verses separately because they deal with different subjects.
Colossians 2:14 should be seen in its context, specifically with the preceding verse:
Christ came to pay the penalty for all our sins. Accepting His sacrifice releases us from the penalty of death incurred through our sin and cleanses our conscience from all guilt (Ephesians 1:7; Hebrews 9:14; I John 1:7; 2:2). God says that when He forgives our sins, He removes it "as far as east is from the west" (Psalm 103:12). This truly is "tak[ing] it out of the way"!
Ephesians 2:15 uses dogma in a different way, and again, we need to see the context of Paul's argument:
We can solve our dilemma with one passage from Jesus' own mouth, speaking to the scribes and Pharisees of His day:
In Paul's day, many newly-begotten Christians continued to suffer from the burden of their former teachings. Some converted Jews found it difficult to forget and change that deeply-ingrained part of their lives. It affected even someone as converted as the apostle Peter (see Galatians 2:11-12). Paul explains to the Ephesians, mostly Gentiles, that Christians comprise an entirely new community that is not dependent at all upon the manmade laws and regulations of their former religions, but only upon what God had revealed: "Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, having been built on the foundation of the apostles and the prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone" (Ephesians 2:19-20).
Christ abolished the Talmudic traditions—all of which were yokes of bondage (Galatians 5:1; Matthew 23:4)—as necessary for salvation. Jesus, however, did not do away with any part of God's law. In fact, He made it possible for both Jew and Gentile to become spiritual Israelites, the children of God (Galatians 3:26-29; 6:16), so they might live together in freedom within His perfect law (James 1:25). He says in Matthew 5:17, "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill."
Yes, to fulfill, to observe, to keep, and by doing so, He set us a perfect example as to how we ought to live. We are "to walk just as He walked" (I John 2:6). The apostle Peter writes that Christ left "us an example, that you should follow His steps" (I Peter 2:21). Paul says, "Imitate me, just as I also imitate Christ" (I Corinthians 11:1).
God's law is good and for our benefit: "You shall therefore keep His statutes and His commandments, which I command you today, that it may go well with you and with your children after you, and that you may prolong your days in the land which the LORD your God is giving you for all time" (Deuteronomy 4:40).
Jesus Christ did indeed do away with the unnecessary and unprofitable requirements of men, but the law of God is binding on us more than ever. We are to keep it in the Spirit as well as the letter. Even so, the benefits of keeping God's laws are wonderful and many. Jesus says, "If you know these things, happy are you if you do them" (John 13:17).
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
(Rom 11:17) And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
(Rom 11:24) For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Hoffco, the differences I see is that some are ingrafted Israelites through the blood of Messiah Yeshua and others believe that they are not part of the commonwealth of Israel. Those who believe they are not of the commonwealth of Israel have themselves put up "the middle wall of division", the very thing Jesus Christ tore down. No heresy here in believing the Word of God. Many times much verses showing from the New Testament we Christians/ingrafted Israelites are to keep the commandments.
Remember these 9 verses?
(Mat 19:17) And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
(Joh 14:15) If ye love me, keep my commandments.
(Joh 15:10) If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
(1Jn 2:3) And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
(1Jn 3:22) And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
(1Jn 5:2) By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
(1Jn 5:3) For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
(Rev 12:17) And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
(Rev 14:12) Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Colossians 2:14 should be seen in its context, specifically with the preceding verse:
And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. (verses 13-14)
The New King James version has rendered dogma as "requirements," a perfectly justifiable translation. The phrase "handwriting of requirements," however, begs an explanation. Its basic meaning is "a written statement of obligation," much like a traffic citation, which lists the laws that its recipient broke. Thus, it is a record of wrongdoing or guilt. We can verify this by seeing that the clause in which it appears restates the one just before it: "having forgiven you all trespasses." What Paul is telling these Colossians is that the sacrifice of Jesus Christ has "wiped out" all record of their guilt in breaking God's law. That is good news!
Christ came to pay the penalty for all our sins. Accepting His sacrifice releases us from the penalty of death incurred through our sin and cleanses our conscience from all guilt (Ephesians 1:7; Hebrews 9:14; I John 1:7; 2:2). God says that when He forgives our sins, He removes it "as far as east is from the west" (Psalm 103:12). This truly is "tak[ing] it out of the way"!
Ephesians 2:15 uses dogma in a different way, and again, we need to see the context of Paul's argument:
For He Himself is our peace, who has made both [Jew and Gentile] one, and has broken down the middle wall of division between us, having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. (Verses 14-16)
Paul himself defines what this "law of commandments contained in ordinances" is; it is "the enmity"—which he mentions twice (verses 15-16)—between Jews and Gentiles (see verses 11-12). He also calls it "the middle wall of division" in verse 14. Whatever "the law of commandments contained in ordinances" is, it causes hatred and division. This rules out right away that it refers to God's law, for it, Paul writes in Romans 7:12, "is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good."
We can solve our dilemma with one passage from Jesus' own mouth, speaking to the scribes and Pharisees of His day:
Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? . . . Thus you have made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition. Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying: . . . "And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men."
These "commandments of men" were the restrictive pharisaical decrees burdening the Jews and those among the Gentiles who desired to worship God. These human ordinances—additions by men to what God revealed in the Old Testament—contributed to feelings of prejudice, animosity, suspicion, and separation between the Jews and Gentiles who were being called into God's church. These ordinances acted as a "middle wall of division." However, Jesus abolished that barrier through His supreme sacrifice: "For He Himself is our peace" (Ephesians 2:14).
In Paul's day, many newly-begotten Christians continued to suffer from the burden of their former teachings. Some converted Jews found it difficult to forget and change that deeply-ingrained part of their lives. It affected even someone as converted as the apostle Peter (see Galatians 2:11-12). Paul explains to the Ephesians, mostly Gentiles, that Christians comprise an entirely new community that is not dependent at all upon the manmade laws and regulations of their former religions, but only upon what God had revealed: "Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, having been built on the foundation of the apostles and the prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone" (Ephesians 2:19-20).
Christ abolished the Talmudic traditions—all of which were yokes of bondage (Galatians 5:1; Matthew 23:4)—as necessary for salvation. Jesus, however, did not do away with any part of God's law. In fact, He made it possible for both Jew and Gentile to become spiritual Israelites, the children of God (Galatians 3:26-29; 6:16), so they might live together in freedom within His perfect law (James 1:25). He says in Matthew 5:17, "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill."
Yes, to fulfill, to observe, to keep, and by doing so, He set us a perfect example as to how we ought to live. We are "to walk just as He walked" (I John 2:6). The apostle Peter writes that Christ left "us an example, that you should follow His steps" (I Peter 2:21). Paul says, "Imitate me, just as I also imitate Christ" (I Corinthians 11:1).
God's law is good and for our benefit: "You shall therefore keep His statutes and His commandments, which I command you today, that it may go well with you and with your children after you, and that you may prolong your days in the land which the LORD your God is giving you for all time" (Deuteronomy 4:40).
Jesus Christ did indeed do away with the unnecessary and unprofitable requirements of men, but the law of God is binding on us more than ever. We are to keep it in the Spirit as well as the letter. Even so, the benefits of keeping God's laws are wonderful and many. Jesus says, "If you know these things, happy are you if you do them" (John 13:17).
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
(Rom 11:17) And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
(Rom 11:24) For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Hoffco, the differences I see is that some are ingrafted Israelites through the blood of Messiah Yeshua and others believe that they are not part of the commonwealth of Israel. Those who believe they are not of the commonwealth of Israel have themselves put up "the middle wall of division", the very thing Jesus Christ tore down. No heresy here in believing the Word of God. Many times much verses showing from the New Testament we Christians/ingrafted Israelites are to keep the commandments.
Remember these 9 verses?
(Mat 19:17) And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
(Joh 14:15) If ye love me, keep my commandments.
(Joh 15:10) If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
(1Jn 2:3) And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
(1Jn 3:22) And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
(1Jn 5:2) By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
(1Jn 5:3) For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
(Rev 12:17) And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
(Rev 14:12) Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
W
Again I ask womanlovestx ?, what is your reply to my earlier post? Yesterday Jesus did not do all the law , yet today you post he did indeed do all the law? I've kept your posts close at hand, and I would be grateful for an answer ? Which is it sister the truth I mean?, yesterday's post or today's post ?, most grateful....