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Just a small note on “ezer kenegdo” which is what Eve was called by God in the Garden of Eden.
There are only 20 other uses of this term in the Old Testament. 17 refer to God helping, and the other 3 refer to military allies.
Seems like this is something much more than just a wife who cooks and cleans for her husband. You really do need to look at the other uses in the Bible to get a glimpse of the scope and meaning of the word. ALL the words in the Bible are picked for a reason. “Ezer kenegdo” is no exception!
There are only 20 other uses of this term in the Old Testament. 17 refer to God helping, and the other 3 refer to military allies.
Seems like this is something much more than just a wife who cooks and cleans for her husband. You really do need to look at the other uses in the Bible to get a glimpse of the scope and meaning of the word. ALL the words in the Bible are picked for a reason. “Ezer kenegdo” is no exception!
T
And does the bible not also say "submit to one another"? And there is neither "male or female" in Gods kingdom? I think what happened to Job after meeting God is an excellent example of him understanding this equality when he gave his daughters and inheritance just like his sons. He broke ALL tradition. Jewish women had no rights and were not even allowed to study scripture but here was Job finally seeing his daughters as equals with his sons.
Most men, I find, speak like the only way to keep a woman "safe" in her spiritual walk in THROUGH the husband. So all you single ladies out there be prepared to replace Jesus as your Head, your comforter, your healing, the lover of your soul who leads you, restores you in every way shape or form possible and replace Him with a husband if you plan to get married...OR think very carefully about equal yolking. Does your guy walk the same path as you? Does he hear God as clear as you? Does he show Gods characteristics in his life? Will He love you as Christ loves His bride? Is he holy spirit led? Will he do everything to set you free by being your spiritual warrior, protecting you from the enemy....or will he use scripture to control you?
I think men often forget that not all women are married and are quit capable of having a very deep and personal relationship with God without a husband. Does the bible not say "nolonger shall you call me my master but husband"? Jesus can be the best husband a woman could ever hope for. He loves UNCONDITIONALLY and brings total freedom. He heals and restores and never tries to control. I have been very fortunately in my life to be around many Godly Christian men that show that example to their wives. Its rare. But then again Jesus did say "narrow is the way and FEW find it". That's why I am asking women to PRAY for the men. To understand the deeper context of why men are spiritually abusive and controlling.
As for Paul, I can definitely relate to his sufferings and persecution and I know of many other women too who have suffered for their faith...but no you don't often hear them....because men like to keep women silent. Paul was refering to that specific church in Ephesus about being quiet. God would never have made women Prophetesses MOUTH PIECE of God otherwise. God is NOT double minded...that would make Him unstable would it not? He cannot make a woman a mouth piece of God SENT to MEN and then on the other hand tell them to be quiet. You have to take the WHOLE council of God.
Most men, I find, speak like the only way to keep a woman "safe" in her spiritual walk in THROUGH the husband. So all you single ladies out there be prepared to replace Jesus as your Head, your comforter, your healing, the lover of your soul who leads you, restores you in every way shape or form possible and replace Him with a husband if you plan to get married...OR think very carefully about equal yolking. Does your guy walk the same path as you? Does he hear God as clear as you? Does he show Gods characteristics in his life? Will He love you as Christ loves His bride? Is he holy spirit led? Will he do everything to set you free by being your spiritual warrior, protecting you from the enemy....or will he use scripture to control you?
I think men often forget that not all women are married and are quit capable of having a very deep and personal relationship with God without a husband. Does the bible not say "nolonger shall you call me my master but husband"? Jesus can be the best husband a woman could ever hope for. He loves UNCONDITIONALLY and brings total freedom. He heals and restores and never tries to control. I have been very fortunately in my life to be around many Godly Christian men that show that example to their wives. Its rare. But then again Jesus did say "narrow is the way and FEW find it". That's why I am asking women to PRAY for the men. To understand the deeper context of why men are spiritually abusive and controlling.
As for Paul, I can definitely relate to his sufferings and persecution and I know of many other women too who have suffered for their faith...but no you don't often hear them....because men like to keep women silent. Paul was refering to that specific church in Ephesus about being quiet. God would never have made women Prophetesses MOUTH PIECE of God otherwise. God is NOT double minded...that would make Him unstable would it not? He cannot make a woman a mouth piece of God SENT to MEN and then on the other hand tell them to be quiet. You have to take the WHOLE council of God.
T
jonathan, imagine you started dating a lady. All your friends tell you she is married but everything you see around you tells you something different. She has her own place, no "hubbys" belongings in there. She is always available when you call her up for a date, there are never any signs that she is married. Eventually you ask her outright cos your friends keep telling you she is and she says no. One day on a date her husband shows up! The place she is living in is just an apartment she uses when she works away and she works away a few months at a time.
BEING DECEIVED is very different to DELIBERATELY doing something wrong.
Are you still guilty of dating a married woman? YES!!!!!!
God told ADAM not to eat of the tree...he heard it first hand from God. And thats why God said to Adam "you ate of the tree I told YOU not to"....He did not say those words to Eve
BEING DECEIVED is very different to DELIBERATELY doing something wrong.
Are you still guilty of dating a married woman? YES!!!!!!
God told ADAM not to eat of the tree...he heard it first hand from God. And thats why God said to Adam "you ate of the tree I told YOU not to"....He did not say those words to Eve
If a woman felt loved like Christ loved the church, she would have no problems submitting to a husband like that.
It is very unfortunate that we read in the KJV "help meet" which became "help mate". The original old English understanding of the word meet simply meant "suitable for". So the text says, "I will find a helper suitable for him." Total equality, no degradation. The word helper is then used of God in Ex. 18:4 so it's not a subservient term.
God recognizes gender in both nature and role. He Himself is the source of all gender attributes, in His image we're created male and female.
It is very unfortunate that we read in the KJV "help meet" which became "help mate". The original old English understanding of the word meet simply meant "suitable for". So the text says, "I will find a helper suitable for him." Total equality, no degradation. The word helper is then used of God in Ex. 18:4 so it's not a subservient term.
God recognizes gender in both nature and role. He Himself is the source of all gender attributes, in His image we're created male and female.
T
exactly...for her to "desire her husband" to meet her needs is a product of the fall. He sure cant do that,
only God can fill her physical, emotional, relational, and spiritual needs.....and some of the chatty also
only God can fill her physical, emotional, relational, and spiritual needs.....and some of the chatty also
T
Thats right, God is not American...and neither am I. The ladies on here have a very valid point. Why would a woman , growing into the fullness of Christ have such a bad effect on men? Surely, if a mans heart is right in Christ he would not only be joyful in that but will rise up also into all a man should be...not seek to pull a woman down to make himself better?
Twofeet, do you want Job to be your doctrine and proof of Truth? So you say job UNDERSTOOD and you UNDERSTAND....
Then you need to CHANGE YOUR MIND AND REPENT FROM THINGS YOU UNDERSTAND NOT.... Like Job did in Job 42...
Jod DID NOT UNDERSTAND, for the things of GOD WAS NOT UNDERSTOOD BY HIM.... Look how JOB REPENT from his actions and words... So all you did REFERING to JOB is proove I am right in God's Word and you and Job, the old Job aware not in God's WAY...
Look what Job said and done... I hope you still follow HIS EXAMPLE...
I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not.
Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.
Read it in Job 42... Like you he build a GOD AND GOSPEL what he heard from FALSE TEACHERS that ALSO do not KNOW GOD. I teach you God's Word, and you argue on and on... Job DID NOT ARGUE on when the TRUTH HIT HIM... I just hopw you SEE THE TRUTH I PREACH, or if not of me, AT LEAST BELIEVE WHAT YOU READ RIGHT HERE.... JOB WAS WRONG AND HAD TO WITHDRAW (ABHORE) ALL HE SAID, AND REPENT IN DUST AND ASHES.... I DID AS WELL, NOW I HAVE ALSO SEEN THE TRUTH, AND I AM MADE FREE BY THE TRUTH.
Then you need to CHANGE YOUR MIND AND REPENT FROM THINGS YOU UNDERSTAND NOT.... Like Job did in Job 42...
Jod DID NOT UNDERSTAND, for the things of GOD WAS NOT UNDERSTOOD BY HIM.... Look how JOB REPENT from his actions and words... So all you did REFERING to JOB is proove I am right in God's Word and you and Job, the old Job aware not in God's WAY...
Look what Job said and done... I hope you still follow HIS EXAMPLE...
I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not.
Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.
Read it in Job 42... Like you he build a GOD AND GOSPEL what he heard from FALSE TEACHERS that ALSO do not KNOW GOD. I teach you God's Word, and you argue on and on... Job DID NOT ARGUE on when the TRUTH HIT HIM... I just hopw you SEE THE TRUTH I PREACH, or if not of me, AT LEAST BELIEVE WHAT YOU READ RIGHT HERE.... JOB WAS WRONG AND HAD TO WITHDRAW (ABHORE) ALL HE SAID, AND REPENT IN DUST AND ASHES.... I DID AS WELL, NOW I HAVE ALSO SEEN THE TRUTH, AND I AM MADE FREE BY THE TRUTH.
T
Job had to repent of his self righteous attitude Cobus. This does not change the fact that after he had an encounter with God, after he had humbled himself, he gave his daughters an inheritance breaking all tradition. God changed him, God changed how he viewed life. God changed how he viewed his daughters. I pray for more Jobs in this life.
I ask you this...IF WE ARE NOT MALE OR FEMALE in Christ? Can a male take over the BEARING CHILDREN? If the woman is able to take the man's place who is going to bear the children?
IT is just redicilous to think man and woman are same in Christ... Same Spirit, DEFFERENT ROLES... And i showed you how you sill be saved.... 1 Timothy 2... A woman shall besaved in CHLDBEARING, NO man can do this.... IF SHE CONTINUE IN FAITH AND CHARITY AND HOLINESS WITH SOBRIETY... Let me expand the word SOBRIETY for you... SELF CONTLOL is one of them.... Self control of a woamn is NOT TO PUT HE ABOVE HER HUSBAND... NEVER.. but to SUBMIT TO HIM.. Like the man to Jesus, how can I even think of going above Jesus... Amd yes I am ALSO ONE WITH JESUS, but I will NEVER BE THE MESSIAH! Just as the woman is one with JEsus as the man is, but she will NEVER BE THE MAN....
If you people cannot understand this, I cannot help you, and neither can God is you keep being IGNORANT, even God will leave you ignorant....
God says if you are ignorant, and you are, I should leave you ignorant... Will God tell me something to do and He did not do it himself? Ignorance is NO EXCUSE to sin... NEVER!
IT is just redicilous to think man and woman are same in Christ... Same Spirit, DEFFERENT ROLES... And i showed you how you sill be saved.... 1 Timothy 2... A woman shall besaved in CHLDBEARING, NO man can do this.... IF SHE CONTINUE IN FAITH AND CHARITY AND HOLINESS WITH SOBRIETY... Let me expand the word SOBRIETY for you... SELF CONTLOL is one of them.... Self control of a woamn is NOT TO PUT HE ABOVE HER HUSBAND... NEVER.. but to SUBMIT TO HIM.. Like the man to Jesus, how can I even think of going above Jesus... Amd yes I am ALSO ONE WITH JESUS, but I will NEVER BE THE MESSIAH! Just as the woman is one with JEsus as the man is, but she will NEVER BE THE MAN....
If you people cannot understand this, I cannot help you, and neither can God is you keep being IGNORANT, even God will leave you ignorant....
God says if you are ignorant, and you are, I should leave you ignorant... Will God tell me something to do and He did not do it himself? Ignorance is NO EXCUSE to sin... NEVER!
T
As I said Cobus...Im not married......I sit with the Lord in His presence and have to say your attitude is very different to His. We are both made in His image, different qualities and yes women give birth not men so how can you even understand what God does with a woman in childbirth? You are just reading words from a bible with no understanding. Do you know that the pain equivalent is of over 20 bones being broken all at the same time? Do you know what that feels like to go through just to bring life? Do you know how a womans spirit clings to God in that time? You speak of things you know not of.
M
Exactly. If it wasn't for the inconvenience of anatomy, these feminists would have men giving birth, and nursing their babies, also.
I think you are right to correct once or twice, and certainly, to keep highlighting further deceptions so others will not be deceived by false doctrines. But I think for many or most feminists, their decision is made from hardness of heart, and appeals to scripture fall on ears that hear not.
As God said to Eve in Genesis "Your desire will be for your husband...". The feminists cannot stand the thought that a man rule over them (hence their common objection to marriage), and constantly desire to usurp the God-given authority of men.
I think you are right to correct once or twice, and certainly, to keep highlighting further deceptions so others will not be deceived by false doctrines. But I think for many or most feminists, their decision is made from hardness of heart, and appeals to scripture fall on ears that hear not.
As God said to Eve in Genesis "Your desire will be for your husband...". The feminists cannot stand the thought that a man rule over them (hence their common objection to marriage), and constantly desire to usurp the God-given authority of men.
T
If you had read the posts between me and Abiding on this thread then you would have understanding on that scripture.And yes, Abiding is a man, and he understands it. Not the "controlling" attitude you are displaying here and still demanding your rights for. The whole point of this thread is to actually show up this attitude and where it is rooted in...it is rooted in the fall of man. Jesus does not behave in this way at all. He does not control or DEMAND to control.
M
I read what you believe, but it's incorrect. The word desire is a desire to control and rule over, the same word used when God warned Cain of his sinful nature, which desired to control Cain (Genesis 4). Hence God's words "Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you". Being ruled over would not be a problem by itself - the problem occurs because of the desire (of the woman) to rule or have authority over the ruler (the man).
I'm not displaying any controlling attitude, nor demanding any rights. I tell things as they are (contrary to Adam's silence, in the garden with Eve). It is your choice to believe me or not, to obey God or not.
Jesus never turned a blind eye to sin. I certainly don't compare to Him. But in this case, all I have stated is the truth.
I'm not displaying any controlling attitude, nor demanding any rights. I tell things as they are (contrary to Adam's silence, in the garden with Eve). It is your choice to believe me or not, to obey God or not.
Jesus never turned a blind eye to sin. I certainly don't compare to Him. But in this case, all I have stated is the truth.
K
My deceased wife and my wife-to-be were/are both highly anointed and appointed by God for ministry. I find that in ministry I think of us as equals. I find that in sex I think of us being as different as possible. As I read the divergence of opinions on this topic, I wonder if that is the deciding factor, what the man wants from the woman? I have posted many times that Greek and Hebrew languages work differently than English, and when that is allowed for, Scripture supports the position that women in ministry are very different from women in marriage. Could it be that the extreme positions on this matter come from the physical desires of the people expressing them?
M
Exactly. I think most men would find it easier to take a position subordinate to their wives. Just as most women would find it easier to attempt to rule over their husbands. I'm not saying either would do a good job in such a worldly arrangement, nor would it be healthy or effective. But this is our fallen nature, and scripture explains that the man is the head of the woman, and she should submit to him. It is our God-given duty as men to lead, and women likewise have a God-given duty to submit, despite the cravings of the flesh (i.e. physical desires).
Twofeet were you EVER with man? Then you are married to that man until one of you die. And t obe with man and be freed bu dicorce is another ubject...... Sorry ONLY virgin maidens have other duties, YET NOT THOSE OF THE MAN... But look at this... A virgin man can be DEFILED by a woman, but a woman cannot be defiled by a man...
And is it not strange that a virgin eve having sex became a WOMAN, and the virgen man having sex still was MAN... Do you know why? Ask your DOCTOR... Or better yet ask God.... The moment a virgin lies with man she becomes woman, but the MAN STILL IS MAN...
If two people (virgins) marry and the MAN TAKE the viginity of the wife, he does good, but if he does not HE DOES BETTER... For who the wife of himself? ....HE WILL NOT BE DEFILED... God did not say... Let you woman in church be silent, but the vigin madens speak... NOPE, they even have to be quiet to the woman,,,, even more wrong for them to teach...
But a virgin maiden has straight access to the Word... that is true... SHe has no head but Jesus, but do NOT misuse this to try and proof she is not EVE... Eve will NEVER be ADAM, NEVER. And Adam will NEVER be Eve... God even hates a man that is womanly, God made it a sin.... I did not say God must do that, HE JUST DID..
God made Adam FIRST HIS WILL, Then God made EVE as A HELP, not co-man... HELP. His will... And SHE WAS decieved, not ADAM. God kept Adam undecieved... HIS WILL...
Toady God wants woman quiet in the church.... HIS WILL. And HE appointed the man as... the one that MUST NOT COVER HIS HEAD... And the UNCOVERED HEAD is the HEAD OF THE COVERED head... We do not have to believe it, then we also do not have to do it... No problem, just do not expect GOD to be part of where HIS WILL IS NOT WANTED...
I do not care how wone my wife and I are in Christ... if she has short hair, she will have to wear a cover when we pray. and i will NEVER pray with a cover on my head... If we are in church she will be quiet, and she always had that, even before I met her, has to be a Godly gift to obey God as naturally as she does... If she wants to know something she asks me, and that keeps me on my toes and in contact with God...
The man is the IMAGE AND GLORY OF GOD, and the woman the image and glory of the man... I am a fine example of the image of the glory of God, by HIS GRACE.. and my wife is a fine example of the glory of me, BY HIS GRACE.... I am NOT ashamed of my wife. NEVER have been NEVER will be, she sure is a fine GLORY of me....
I have ALWAYS felt sorry for the men whose women speak in church,,,, IT IS TRULY A SHAME TO THEM, even if they do not know it, and they think they as men is in HIS IMAGE AND HIS GLORY... when the women stole the glory and they display SHAME...
This was one sin I NEVER committed, I ALWAYS knew it was wrong and a shame... Women should be quiet in church.
And is it not strange that a virgin eve having sex became a WOMAN, and the virgen man having sex still was MAN... Do you know why? Ask your DOCTOR... Or better yet ask God.... The moment a virgin lies with man she becomes woman, but the MAN STILL IS MAN...
If two people (virgins) marry and the MAN TAKE the viginity of the wife, he does good, but if he does not HE DOES BETTER... For who the wife of himself? ....HE WILL NOT BE DEFILED... God did not say... Let you woman in church be silent, but the vigin madens speak... NOPE, they even have to be quiet to the woman,,,, even more wrong for them to teach...
But a virgin maiden has straight access to the Word... that is true... SHe has no head but Jesus, but do NOT misuse this to try and proof she is not EVE... Eve will NEVER be ADAM, NEVER. And Adam will NEVER be Eve... God even hates a man that is womanly, God made it a sin.... I did not say God must do that, HE JUST DID..
God made Adam FIRST HIS WILL, Then God made EVE as A HELP, not co-man... HELP. His will... And SHE WAS decieved, not ADAM. God kept Adam undecieved... HIS WILL...
Toady God wants woman quiet in the church.... HIS WILL. And HE appointed the man as... the one that MUST NOT COVER HIS HEAD... And the UNCOVERED HEAD is the HEAD OF THE COVERED head... We do not have to believe it, then we also do not have to do it... No problem, just do not expect GOD to be part of where HIS WILL IS NOT WANTED...
I do not care how wone my wife and I are in Christ... if she has short hair, she will have to wear a cover when we pray. and i will NEVER pray with a cover on my head... If we are in church she will be quiet, and she always had that, even before I met her, has to be a Godly gift to obey God as naturally as she does... If she wants to know something she asks me, and that keeps me on my toes and in contact with God...
The man is the IMAGE AND GLORY OF GOD, and the woman the image and glory of the man... I am a fine example of the image of the glory of God, by HIS GRACE.. and my wife is a fine example of the glory of me, BY HIS GRACE.... I am NOT ashamed of my wife. NEVER have been NEVER will be, she sure is a fine GLORY of me....
I have ALWAYS felt sorry for the men whose women speak in church,,,, IT IS TRULY A SHAME TO THEM, even if they do not know it, and they think they as men is in HIS IMAGE AND HIS GLORY... when the women stole the glory and they display SHAME...
This was one sin I NEVER committed, I ALWAYS knew it was wrong and a shame... Women should be quiet in church.
Kenisyes, there is an old saying you can fool some people some of the time, but not all people all of the time... It would be VERY difficult to hear God's Gospel if the person that wants to give the Gospel is not permitted to speak in church...
You tried to twist the Scriptures to get them accepted as TRUTH... just as Satan does ALL the time.. twisting a verse in such a fashion that it actually says the opposite of what is written. I saw this many times... So did Paul.... Kenisyed do you pray with a hat on? will you pray with a hat on? If not why not?
You tried to twist the Scriptures to get them accepted as TRUTH... just as Satan does ALL the time.. twisting a verse in such a fashion that it actually says the opposite of what is written. I saw this many times... So did Paul.... Kenisyed do you pray with a hat on? will you pray with a hat on? If not why not?