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Tintin
Guest
Good gravy, that's rough! What part of the Bible do they base their beliefs on concerning this?
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Good gravy, that's rough! What part of the Bible do they base their beliefs on concerning this?
The bible doesn't say the early church used instruments in worship. We speak where the bible speaks and silent where it's silent. I'm also sure that in a few posts a certain someone will say that my church is satanic. He does that a lot.
According to the Scriptures Christian are supposed to be NO PART OF THE WORLD. The fact that you identify a church as the world and that churches allow Halloween celebrations, tells me that they don't really know God or what his word the Bible says. It tells me that the churches you speak of are part of the world and they don't want to be different. They want to be accepted so they adopt pagan celebrations for the sake of making religion palatable for their followers. That's how Christianity has always been soiled by religious church leaders...they compromise because they don't think God's Word and expectations are attractive enough alone to win over converts. I guess clean, unadulterated worship to God isn't interesting enough, so they incorporate holiday rituals and make up some kind of twisted justification. They don't really care what God thinks, they care what other people think.
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jimmydiggs
Guest
I think there is a marked difference between imitating evil and the question of eating meat sacrificed to idols.
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Tintin
Guest
Hmm... so are you allowed to listen to music, ever? Seems rather strict to me.
God loves creativity, that's why he gave us all that gift. How we use it however, is a different story. Do all things for Gods own glory. Praise him in everything we do. We need to be discerning about content and even how we are affected psychologically by certain sounds. Satan uses music to get into our heads all the time. We may not get the lyrics, but the messages and attitudes are still preached. Familiar with a group called MGMT? Good example....but they sound so harmless....That's Satan's MO, he's cunning and crafty.
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Tintin
Guest
Acapella, got it. But can you listen to music with instruments if it's not for worship? Or is that also forbidden? I don't know. It just seems more of a Gnostic understanding than a freedom-in-Christ understanding of the Bible.
I listen to instruments outside worship. Some don't. It's my preference. I don't knock anyone who does otherwise either. I also don't think one is going to hell if you have instruments in worship. I prefer not to have it. What others prefer is up to them.
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Tintin
Guest
Okay. I've just never heard of this church imitative before. Maybe it's an American thing.
Gen 4:19-22) "Lamech married two women, one named Adah and the other Zillah. 20 Adah gave birth to Jabal; he was the father of those who live in tents and raise livestock. 21 His brother's name was Jubal; he was the father of all who play stringed instruments and pipes. 22 Zillah also had a son, Tubal-Cain, who forged all kinds of tools out of bronze and iron. Tubal-Cain's sister was Naamah."
According to the Bible not only did God give mankind the gift of making music; He gave them skill to make instruments. He also, gave them skills to work with bronze and iron; agriculture and livestock. Which some still think was part of an evolutionary process. But the Bible clearly states that our skills were given to us and if God gave us the ability to make music it doesn't mean that it was intended to represent or promote sin. Not everyone who plays instruments uses them that way.
According to the Bible not only did God give mankind the gift of making music; He gave them skill to make instruments. He also, gave them skills to work with bronze and iron; agriculture and livestock. Which some still think was part of an evolutionary process. But the Bible clearly states that our skills were given to us and if God gave us the ability to make music it doesn't mean that it was intended to represent or promote sin. Not everyone who plays instruments uses them that way.
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jimmydiggs
Guest
I don't know that I would call it satanic, but it certainly has pelagian tendencies. The speaking part isn't always true either. It's kind of hit and miss with the CoC, especially in believing that anyone who isn't baptized isn't saved because the work of baptism is a requirement. That's kind of anti-thetical to Ephesians 2, but I don't know if I could call it Satanic.
Probably a Church of Christ thing. That's the predominant denomination that is against musical instruments in worship. If you bring up the instruments mentioned in Psalms, for example, the response is usually something about it not being mentioned in the New Testament worship services. (I grew up Baptist but dated a couple of Church of Christ).
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Tintin
Guest
CoC? Church of Christ? You guys in America do denominational doctrines differently from us Aussies. The Church of Christ churches here have none of this acapella worship only. Hmm...
My only request when discussing holiday-related convictions is that we be logically consistent. If you want to be against Halloween because of the demon/monster/witch/gore stuff, I respect that. If celebrate it because you view it as fantasy/make-believe, that's fine, too. But it is logically inconsistent to be against Halloween because of the pagan origins while still celebrating Christmas and Ester, using door wreaths or wedding rings, or saying "Bless you" when someone sneezes. Getting rid of "ugly" paganism while keeping "pretty" paganism is just naive.
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rosh037
Guest
Dear Misty,
There is a difference between celebrating Christmas/Easter and Halloween.You are correct in saying that Christmas/Easter(i think I'll call it C/E,for purposes of brevity) have pagan origins.However,people celebrate these festivals to remember Christ's birth and resurrection.Is it sinful to remember the life of Our Savior?There is a CHRISTIAN significance attached to them.But Halloween?A festival in memory of Samhain?What's the significance here?You decide!
This is my last postIf this does not convince people,then nothing else will.As Christians,we are commanded to keep away from occultism(Ephesians 5:11)
There is a difference between celebrating Christmas/Easter and Halloween.You are correct in saying that Christmas/Easter(i think I'll call it C/E,for purposes of brevity) have pagan origins.However,people celebrate these festivals to remember Christ's birth and resurrection.Is it sinful to remember the life of Our Savior?There is a CHRISTIAN significance attached to them.But Halloween?A festival in memory of Samhain?What's the significance here?You decide!
This is my last postIf this does not convince people,then nothing else will.As Christians,we are commanded to keep away from occultism(Ephesians 5:11)
On that same note, is it sinful to put on silly clothes and eat candy?
Theology is not a buffet line, people. You can't just pick and choose the parts that are most palatable to you. Rather, it needs to adhere to Biblical truth and sound logic.
I pray for a world, or even a little part of a world, where I could be part of a group who built their life around the Lord and what He wants of us. In this world the holidays, even, would come from God's word. We would gather often for fun and companionship, but we would be too busy for witches and goblins for fun.
If there got to be sin among us, we would only love and build each other. If it seemed too much, we would take it to the elders of the church and be dealt with as scripture told us to, but not with bickering.
If there got to be sin among us, we would only love and build each other. If it seemed too much, we would take it to the elders of the church and be dealt with as scripture told us to, but not with bickering.
Many in the COC are legalistic about it. I'm not. I'm certainly not gonna say you're going the hell if you play amazing grace on a piano.
As far as baptism we do feel its necessary but it is a common misconception for ppl to think that we think baptism is what saves. One must understand the word and believe it before they even can confess they're a sinner. After that one is baptized. If you didnt do these things then baptism is nothing more than taking a bath.