Why are we allowing our government to trample our Christian values?

[just-me]

Nazi Germany had some lessons we can learn. Here is how he got German people to be part of his government of immorality.

He was once a Catholic, he did not discourage people from attending church, as long as it didn't interfere with people agreeing to his government policies. The church was to have no influence in what he did, it was to be completely separate. School prayers were banned, carols and nativity plays forbidden. The word Christmas was changed to Yuletide. Easter was the arrival of spring, based on that church was to have nothing to do with how people lived.

He announced that he gave churches freedom, as long as they kept their place.

The churches liked his attitude and his use of the words freedom and tolerance in relation to them. Some Lutheran pastors even decided to eliminate the OT from the bible based on that it was too Jewish.

A lady moved to our town after WW11 who had been part of Hitler's Youth. I asked her how she could be part of something so wicked. She said that it seemed wonderful to march and sing as part of something greater than she was. She felt that God builds this desire in every person, Hitler used that. She was told it was good.

We are slowly being groomed the same way Hitler groomed the Germans. It will result in a call for civil disobedience if we do like Daniel did when the Babylonian government asked him to obey something against God. These policies are warning us, are we ready? The German people were not, they even helped Hitler murder. Already there have been lawsuits against Christian organizations and churches not being part of homosexual marriages based on discrimination.

Hitler ordered pastors to teach Romans 13, asking us to obey the government. Pastors have been approached by our administration, also, to teach this chapter. They are not to teach that government is not to legislate against what God asks of us, and as Daniel led the way for us, we are to stand on the words of our Lord first.

This is very enlightening. My dad, born in 1902, was old enough to be my grandfather, always used to say that man is our own worst enemy. He was right, and knew those times in our history from the 1st WW. I have seen, in my lifetime, most church denominations, ready to compromise, in that the first sign of that is dividing of the Word improperly concerning Old Testament and the New. I know this will cause a little contention when I mention this, but neglecting certain parts of the Bible causes a certain unawareness of current reality. My dad also mentioned, that not only does history repeat itself, but if we don't learn from our mistakes, we are bound to make those same mistakes over and over again, and each time that happens, it gets worse.

 

[just-me]

Is it our reasonable service?

Romans 12:1-2 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

 

[Delivery]

The number 1 reason Christians let the government squash their rights, freedoms, civil liberties, etc. is because they're afraid of persecution. "They love the praise of men more than the praise of God." We need to stand up for the truth even if they kill us for it. and they probably will kill some.

18 And they called them, and commanded them not to speak at all nor teach in the name of Jesus.

19 But Peter and John answered and said unto them, Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye.

20 For we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard.

The one law or rule or ordinance of man that the Lord expects, even requires, His children to disobey is any rule that prohibits you from preaching Jesus and confessing Jesus as your Lord and Savior. and as it says again in the book of Acts, " Did not we straitly command you that ye should not teach in this name? and, behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this man's blood upon us.

29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

33 When they heard that, they were cut to the heart, and took counsel to slay them.

If we refuse to confess Jesus, we are in affect, denying Him. And Jesus said,:

Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.

33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

But He also said we are not to be afraid of man. We are to fear God more.


28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

We are not to be ashamed of the Gospel of Christ.

Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

So, we can't be afraid of persecution. we have to preach the gospel and trust in the Lord to take care of us.

Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father.

30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.

31 Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows.

17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.

18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish.

19 In your patience possess ye your souls.

 

[just-me]

The number 1 reason Christians let the government squash their rights, freedoms, civil liberties, etc. is because they're afraid of persecution. "They love the praise of men more than the praise of God." We need to stand up for the truth even if they kill us for it. and they probably will kill some.

John 5:43-44 (KJV)
[SUP]43 [/SUP]I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
[SUP]44 [/SUP]How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?

 

[Grey]

Best way to fight this? I think:

-vote
-live a good life as an example
-teach your children
-have many children
-bring more folks into the faith
-do good works as an example for others, not just within the church body
-vote, your allowed to vote more than once now, aren't you??

Voting? That's a good one...

 

[Brother_Don]

want to say sorry to Crossnote, i have a problem saying things from emotion and not thinking before it comes from mouth. i was raised to respect my elders. some times things get my head spinning, like things against gov, i should be mad about what they have done to me, then i see the Lord say He will fight our battles, i see it in the word, and believe God will take care of every thing. i feel sorry to every one that i've seemed disrespectful to, i would really like to comunicate better.

 

[Brother_Don]

i watched a sermon by Charles Stanley this morning, that gos with this thread called the courage to stand by your convictions, its on youtube if any one would like to look at it, talks about how Daniel stood by his convictions, dare to be Daniel.

 

[Starcrash]

You know, it's a running joke that FOX News is conservative propaganda, in much the same way that MSNBC is liberal propaganda, and stories coming solely from these networks are often suspicious. The fact that this story is explicitly labeled "opinion" strikes me as extra suspicious, as this may be a way to shield FOX News from reprisal if it turns out that the facts of this case are made up. But I can't say for sure, because there are literally no other sources for their story... this is where they stem from, and the FOX News journalist says that he heard all of this himself.

 

[just-me]

You know, it's a running joke that FOX News is conservative propaganda, in much the same way that MSNBC is liberal propaganda, and stories coming solely from these networks are often suspicious. The fact that this story is explicitly labeled "opinion" strikes me as extra suspicious, as this may be a way to shield FOX News from reprisal if it turns out that the facts of this case are made up. But I can't say for sure, because there are literally no other sources for their story... this is where they stem from, and the FOX News journalist says that he heard all of this himself.

Rather than set our minds on the laws of this land that are ungodly, (adding more and more laws without addressing the real problems) we as believers in Christ should set our minds on what really works for a nation. That information can be found in the truth of God's Word. We should be endorsing what worked right for Israel, and what didn't work right, in the realm of self governing. Originally, God didn't want Israel to have a king, and we don't want that in our country either. But we, as God's children, have neglected those things in Biblical history, evidently, so here we are.

 

[Stephen63]

During the days of the early church, Christianity as well as Judiaism saw a great deal of repression & hate.

The church prayed & preached Christ & Him crucified. The church flourished & grew by the thousands against all odds in a few short years.

Judiaism, on the other hand, had the Maccabean revolt & was nealy wiped off the face of the earth.

So many times we forget the scripture:

Romans 12:17-21 (KJV) [SUP]17 [/SUP]Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men. [SUP]18 [/SUP]If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. [SUP]21 [/SUP]Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

 

[Starcrash]

Rather than set our minds on the laws of this land that are ungodly, (adding more and more laws without addressing the real problems) we as believers in Christ should set our minds on what really works for a nation. That information can be found in the truth of God's Word. We should be endorsing what worked right for Israel, and what didn't work right, in the realm of self governing. Originally, God didn't want Israel to have a king, and we don't want that in our country either. But we, as God's children, have neglected those things in Biblical history, evidently, so here we are.

We don't have a king -- our president was elected by popular vote. Obama's children will not become rulers, and his term isn't a lifetime appointment. Nor do his edicts take effect unless a body of 300+ people allow them to proceed, followed by an acceptance by 100 more people. This ought to be strikingly clear after observing how hard it was for the Affordable Care Act to be enacted, despite Obama's clear endorsement.

Your analogy to Israel is even poorer than your comparison of Obama to a king. While Israel also has an elected leader, this wasn't what happened after Israel found "what worked right" and "what didn't work right". According to the bible, even after the Israelites were put into captivity and then formed a nation again, they still elected kings (such as Herod). And even now, while they have a democratic government, I wouldn't look at Israel in its perpetual gridlock of warfare with the Palestinians and think, "that's the kind of country I want to live in".

But these arguments are overall irrelevant because you're attacking a straw man. My argument stands by itself whether or not Obama is a king, and whether or not Israel learned from the past. What I said was that the citation was rather unsound because it came from a clearly biased source... the story may yet be true, but it's difficult to verify due to the nature of FOX News reporting.

 

[wisebeardman]

our president was elected by popular vote.

you mean the president (he ain't mine) stole the election with fraud.

 

[Starcrash]

you mean the president (he ain't mine) stole the election with fraud.

That's something you'd have to back up with evidence... something perhaps that counters evidence that shows Obama had the popular vote. Wishful thinking doesn't make your fraud theory true.

The seated president typically gets re-elected, which is why many politicians such as Sarah Palin and Chris Christie sat out on the race... it was practically a foregone conclusion before the race started.

 

[wisebeardman]

That's something you'd have to back up with evidence... something perhaps that counters evidence that shows Obama had the popular vote. Wishful thinking doesn't make your fraud theory true.

The seated president typically gets re-elected, which is why many politicians such as Sarah Palin and Chris Christie sat out on the race... it was practically a foregone conclusion before the race started.

how about the several counties he got 100% of the vote.. only way that is possible is by fraud.

 

[Hizikyah]

Electoral vote...

Rothschilds Choice!

Goldman Sachs favorite!

Kissinger's guy!

Brzezinski's marionette!

 

[Stephen63]

That's something you'd have to back up with evidence... something perhaps that counters evidence that shows Obama had the popular vote. Wishful thinking doesn't make your fraud theory true.

The seated president typically gets re-elected, which is why many politicians such as Sarah Palin and Chris Christie sat out on the race... it was practically a foregone conclusion before the race started.

My friend, before you get on the patriotic bandwagon, perhaps you ought to investigate who owns the voting machine companies.... just sayin'

 

[Stephen63]

Here's a hint: 2004 election & Ohio's state govt catching these companies with 300-400 ballets already in them for George Bush. That, & the fact this never made it to the national news.

 

[just-me]

It really shouldn't be a discussion about who is elected, and how that was done whether above board or below board. To be blunt, have we neglected the Biblical principles given to Israel for an example to the children of God for the sake of endorsing faith and the grace of God? For years I have witnessed this, and seen a greater separation between church doctrine and the reality of life. I present a rhetorical question, has the church forsaken their witness to the county for the sake of religious doctrine? This is putting together the reality of life 24/7 to the reality of the truth given to us by the grace of God. Is it true that we have become disconnected from reality on Sunday morning by preaching the grace of Jesus Christ, and openly denying the reality of that grace from the beginning?

 

[just-us-2]

Now that this thread has been hijacked to a political avenue away from the general failure of the church to keep our society in the God-fearing state of mind the founding fathers laid out and intended for us, an observation can be made.

In Deuteronomy 11:16 (KJV) we are told, "Take heed to yourselves, that your heart be not deceived, and ye turn aside, and serve other gods, and worship them;"
America was pretty good about this for several generations before the "other gods" of the carnal world captured the attention and eventually the dedication of Americans. For example, they became infatuated with the idea of government handouts and succumbed to the easy way out of letting the government provide for them. Recently this particular character flaw that developed, or perhaps I should be more gentle and call it a 'mistake', has accelerated in scope. Supposedly, Americans were deceived in the election of 2008, which I find hard to believe, but again in 2012? I find it much easier to believe there was massive fraud - after all we have all seen on the news that people voted as many as 15 times, voted for dead people and voted in place of dogs. At any rate the Washington Post, notoriously liberal newspaper even compares our current president to Machiavelli. Look at these comparisons of scripture with statements of Machiavelli, whom Obama emulates so closely:

"While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage." 2 Peter 2:19 (KJV)
“Never attempt to win by force what can be won by deception.” Niccolo Machiavelli

"And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you:" Mark 13:5 (KJV)
"One who deceives will always find those who allow themselves to be deceived. Niccolo Machiavelli


"For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple." Romans 16:18 (KJV)
"Men are so simple and yield so readily to the desires of the moment that he who will trick will always find another who will suffer to be tricked." Niccolo Machiavelli

 

[Starcrash]

how about the several counties he got 100% of the vote.. only way that is possible is by fraud.

Yes, it probably would be, if it were true. Do you have evidence that this happened? A cursory Google search turned up absolutely zilch for me.