The Original Pentecostal Movement

[zone]

note:

this thread is to examine what has been called the Original Pentecostal Movement.

this Original Pentecostal Movement, some say, was God-ordained and intended as growth for the church...if i understand the argument correctly.

it needs to be determined what was The Original Pentecostal Movement? - there appear to be varying histories and accounts.

this thread is not for arguments - but for rational; reasonable discussion and fact-finding.

the claims and doctrines of this Original Pentecostal Movement would need to align with what The Bible says.

the goal is to determine if the Original Pentecostal Movement was orthodox in its understanding of the biblical Gospel; and was sound in doctrine generally. and what has it evolved into today, if at all.

the practices and claims, as well as doctrines will hopefully be confirmed by Scripture, and/or by objective verification.

please don't take part if only to drive-by without some substantive contribution.

thank you

 

[Stephen63]

And zone, please post the web addresses of your pieces so that others can research them. Thank you.

 

[The_highwayman]

I am the only one that thinks it is kind of funny that someone that continues to lash out against the pentecostal denomination and attack those in those denominations and movements now seeks to gather facts about the movement and their origins and portends to be doing a non combative form of discourse and now wishes substantive contribution.

I have read many posts from you and its obvious you have your beliefs and all you seek to do is cause division and discourse.

Your lack of objectivity will invariably cause this thread to just become another he said/she said bashing of those who espouse and believe in the Pentecostal Full Gospel.

As a self proclaimed reformed saint who believes in cessation, there is nothing anyone that is a Pentecostal/Full Gospel believer could say, which would convince you, of anything that is contrary to your theology.

Why not discuss this at the next potluck at the Synod, I am sure the Vicar's will seek to canonize you for being such a zealous defender of the faith, for exposing all those wolves in sheep's skin.

Your ulterior motive is glaring, have a nice day.

 

[The_highwayman]

I am the only one that thinks it is kind of funny that someone that continues to lash out against the pentecostal denomination and attack those in those denominations and movements now seeks to gather facts about the movement and their origins and portends to be doing a non combative form of discourse and now wishes substantive contribution.

I have read many posts from you and its obvious you have your beliefs and all you seek to do is cause division and discourse.

Your lack of objectivity will invariably cause this thread to just become another he said/she said bashing of those who espouse and believe in the Pentecostal Full Gospel.

As a self proclaimed reformed saint who believes in cessation, there is nothing anyone that a Pentecostal/Full Gospel believer could say, which would convince you of anything, that is contrary to your theology.

Why not discuss this at the next potluck at the Synod, I am sure the Vicar's will seek to canonize you for being such a zealous defender of the faith, for exposing all those wolves in sheep's skin.

Your ulterior motive is glaring, have a nice day.

 

[LT]

And zone, please post the web addresses of your pieces so that others can research them. Thank you.

if you ever want to know a source, just copy/paste the text into a search engine. 99% success rate for me.

As for the OP: there are too many different versions of Pentecostalism to describe it as one whole doctrine.
There are many fringe beliefs attached to many Pentecostal preachers, like:
"Oneness" doctrine, Pentecostal Holiness, Arminian (yet still hold to eternal security), or even that a person is only a "true believer" once they have been sealed by the Spirit through the speaking in tongues.
There are countless other doctrines and belief systems that are founded in the Pentecostal Movement.

 

[LT]

Oddly enough, the Catholic Church has accepted much of the Pentecostal Movement, including the entire Charismatic Movement and much of the soteriology(ideas about salvation).

 

[LT]

Oddly enough, the Catholic Church has accepted much of the Pentecostal Movement, including the entire Charismatic Movement and much of the soteriology(ideas about salvation).

This comment wasn't meant as an insult to any Pentecostals or Catholics, just a known connection. Pls don't turn this into a Papal conspiracy theory thread because of my off-the-cuff remark.

 

[The_highwayman]

Oddly enough, the Catholic Church has accepted much of the Pentecostal Movement, including the entire Charismatic Movement and much of the soteriology(ideas about salvation).

The protestant Charismatic Movement started in 1960 and the Catholic Charismatic Movement started in 1967. Charismatic Catholics in the US are actually quite rare today.

 

[The_highwayman]

A section of Lutheran churches in California also came under the Charismatic Movement during the 60's and 70's, Led by Larry Christenson.

 

[LT]

The protestant Charismatic Movement started in 1960 and the Catholic Charismatic Movement started in 1967. Charismatic Catholics in the US are actually quite rare today.

The only outspoken Catholics that I know are VERY Charismatic. Perhaps my perspective is miscued because of that.

 

[zone]

I am the only one that thinks it is kind of funny that someone that continues to lash out against the pentecostal denomination and attack those in those denominations and movements now seeks to gather facts about the movement and their origins and portends to be doing a non combative form of discourse and now wishes substantive contribution.

I have read many posts from you and its obvious you have your beliefs and all you seek to do is cause division and discourse.

Your lack of objectivity will invariably cause this thread to just become another he said/she said bashing of those who espouse and believe in the Pentecostal Full Gospel.

As a self proclaimed reformed saint who believes in cessation, there is nothing anyone that is a Pentecostal/Full Gospel believer could say, which would convince you, of anything that is contrary to your theology.

Why not discuss this at the next potluck at the Synod, I am sure the Vicar's will seek to canonize you for being such a zealous defender of the faith, for exposing all those wolves in sheep's skin.

Your ulterior motive is glaring, have a nice day.

you have a nice day also.

to anyone else:

this is a response to a Pentecostal who asserts the The Original Pentecostal Movement was of God, ordained and foretold in Scripture.

if it was, it should be easy to show.

it's true i'm a cessationist. and it's true i reject the so-called Full Gospel Pentecostal Movement. is that okay with you?

it is The Original Pentecostal Movement (whatever or whichever it was and is) that i was hoping to find out about - since there are so many internal disagreements on that (within pentecostal/charismatic groups); which leads to confusion when trying to discuss the matter.

as well as denouncing of extremists in some Non-Original Pentecostal Movements/Charismatic Movements...by apparently the Original Pentecostal Movement proponents.

i was hoping for some clarity, and possibly (though unlikely) a definitive description of what the Original Pentecostal Movement is and was and what makes it different from the stuff some Pentecostals reject.

.....

and so The_highwayman, since you had nothing to contribute, and are not interested in rational calm discussion, please don't derail this thread. you could start your own. presumably you won't be posting here again.

have a great day!

 

[zone]

if you ever want to know a source, just copy/paste the text into a search engine. 99% success rate for me.

As for the OP: there are too many different versions of Pentecostalism to describe it as one whole doctrine.
There are many fringe beliefs attached to many Pentecostal preachers, like:
"Oneness" doctrine, Pentecostal Holiness, Arminian (yet still hold to eternal security), or even that a person is only a "true believer" once they have been sealed by the Spirit through the speaking in tongues.
There are countless other doctrines and belief systems that are founded in the Pentecostal Movement.

hi LT.
i was informed there was an Original Pentecostal Movement that was orthodox and foretold in scripture and ordained by God.
it is that Original and orthodox Pentecostal Movement i was interested in - NOT the Charismatics.


NOT THE CHARISMATICS or more recent pentecostal hybrid groups...this thread is not about them.

i am interested in the Original Pentecostal Movement.

 

[zone]

The protestant Charismatic Movement started in 1960 and the Catholic Charismatic Movement started in 1967. Charismatic Catholics in the US are actually quite rare today.

after having you rant following the OP, The_highwayman, now you are off topic.

this thread is NOT about Charismatic Movement started in 1960 and the Catholic Charismatic Movement started in 1967.
do not derail this thread please.

i'm interested in information on The Original Pentecostal Movement only.

kindly post on it, or start another thread. thx.

 

[zone]

A section of Lutheran churches in California also came under the Charismatic Movement during the 60's and 70's, Led by Larry Christenson.

just a reminder about the very specific topic of this thread.
start another if you wish to discuss the Charismatic Movement during the 60's and 70's.
that's not the focus of this thread.

Re: The Original Pentecostal Movement

thanks.

 

[zone]

And zone, please post the web addresses of your pieces so that others can research them. Thank you.

hi stephen. i try to cite all sources.

i was actually hoping you could link to some sources that i could study:

Re: The Original Pentecostal Movement

i want to be certain i know what you have referred to.
thank you.

 

[1still_waters]

I'd think a major positive fruit of the movement was the racial integration in their meetings.
Given the time of the movement, this was ground breaking.

A History of the Pentecostal Church in America

The next year, Mr. Seymour began to preach the new Pentecostal creed in a ramshackle former stable on Azusa Street in downtown Los Angeles, and he quickly attracted an avid multiracial audience. The Azusa Street revival, the first institutional practice of Pentecostalism, would endure for three years, drawing curious Christians from around the world. And while its multiracial character scandalized much of Los Angeles, many worshippers saw the revival’s racial integration as a sign of God’s presence. One participant famously proclaimed that the color line had been "washed away in the blood."

The same couldn't be said of Charles Parham. He actually segregated his meetings.

n 1905, when William J. Seymour attended Charles F. Parham’s Bible school in Houston, Mr. Parham required him to sit in the hallway and listen to lectures through an open door. Mr. Seymour was black, the son of former slaves, and the mores of the times in Texas dictated that he could not sit with his white counterparts.But Mr. Seymour, a short, stocky man who had been blinded in one eye by smallpox, was willing to endure that humiliation in order to learn the radical new theology being taught by Mr. Parham. It was Mr. Parham who had first theorized, only a few years earlier, that glossolalia, or speaking in tongues, provided the "Bible evidence" that a Christian was infused with the Holy Spirit, a doctrine that became the central tenet of Pentecostal thought.

Same source as above.

 

[zone]

I'd think a major positive fruit of the movement was the racial integration in their meetings.
Given the time of the movement, this was ground breaking.

A History of the Pentecostal Church in America

that was a good thing, i'd agree with that

but then this' from the same source:

"When Mr. Parham came to visit his former student’s revival in October 1906, he was dismayed to find scenes of ecstatic praying and frenzied dancing. A Ku Klux Klan sympathizer, he was particularly displeased by the mixing of the races at services that he derided as "Southern darky camp meetings."

The two men dissociated, and not long after the revival ended the Pentecostals split along racial lines into two major denominations, one black, the Church of God in Christ, and one white, the Assemblies of God, with which the Tabernacle in Atlanta affiliated in the 1940's. The Pentecostal faith spread like fire, most rapidly in the deeply segregated South, but white Southerners were far from ready to embrace the multiracial ethic of Azusa Street.

With few theological distinctions, the two denominations and other Pentecostal groups thrived independently through much of the 20th century. While the Assemblies of God placed a heavy emphasis on missionary work overseas, including in Africa, it remained almost thoroughly segregated at home..."

....

but, i would want some confirmation on all that though.
it seems there are different versions of the same beginnings.

i wonder if the Original Pentecostal Movement goes back even further than this, though?

Stephen, is Azusa Street the beginning of the Original Pentecostal Movement?
was hoping you could just set the starting point; list some defining features and post some links and whatnot.
k. ttyl

 

[1still_waters]

Pentecostal historians usually date the beginning of Pentecostalism to the experience of two key figures at the turn of the Twentieth Century. Charles Fox Parnham (1873-1929), the founder of Bethel Bible College in Topeka, Kansas, became convinced from his study of Paul’s letters that the gifts of the Holy Spirit (especially the speaking in tongues) were available to Christians of his day also. The first incident of such tongues-speaking happened at Bethel Bible in 1901. In April, 1906, one of Parnham’s former students, W. J. Seymour, who was preaching in Los Angeles became a catalyst for an outpouring of the Holy Spirit. As he was preaching at a Methodist Church on Azusa Street on the need for every Christian to have a personal Pentecost experience (as it happened to the 120 believers in Acts 2:1-4), many in attendance were baptized in the Holy Spirit, which was evidenced in some by the speaking of tongues, and others by miraculous healings. The revival and the outpouring of the Spirit lasted for three months. Word quickly spread, and thousands traveled to Los Angeles, many of whom were also allegedly baptized in the Holy Spirit. These then gladly took the Pentecostal message and experience back to their homes. By 1909 there were 12 Pentecostal preaching stations in Los Angles. Within a generation the Pentecostal movement had spread all over America and was a new force in Christendom.

Actually, the origins of Pentecostalism go back much farther. The first Pentecostals were members of the Nineteenth Century Holiness Movement, which began to reassert John Wesley’s teaching of Christian perfection, sometimes known as entire sanctification. Wesley’s teaching of entire sanctification had in turn had been influenced by German pietism (the Moravians). Each of these movements taught that the Christian was to seek and experience a second work of grace (the first work of grace being justification), namely, Christian perfection and entire sanctification. The Holiness Movement was associated with the revivals of evangelist Charles Finney (1792-1875) in the 1820s and 1830s. More than anyone else, Finney was responsible for popularizing the teaching of entire sanctification, which he said was an instantaneous act following conversion, which granted perfect liberation from all sin, including sinful thoughts. He also claimed that this entire sanctification is the normal experience of Christians. After the Civil War, when a spirit of worldliness had entered the churches, Methodist churches began holding revivals stressing the need for the experience of entire sanctification. This in turn started a national Holiness Movement, which caused schism within the Methodist Church. Its proponents became known as “holy rollers.”


The family tree of Pentecostalism is, therefore, as follows: Pietism -- the Moravians -- Wesley -- Finney -- Holiness Movement -- Pentecostalism.The Holiness Movement continues today, the largest body being the Church of the Nazarene. Generally speaking, they reject various forms of popular entertainment, such as dancing, movies, popular music, smoking, drinking, gambling, and even make-up and ornate clothing.The key difference between the Holiness Movement and Pentecostalism has to do with their understanding of what the Baptism in the Holy Spirit does. Pentecostals assert that the purpose of the Baptism in the Spirit is to bestow Pentecostal gifts, such as the speaking of tongues, miraculous healings, and power for living. Holiness churches teach that the purpose of the Baptism in the Spirit is the bestowal of entire sanctification.

Pentecostalism

 

[zone]

thanks Still...i have not seen this particular article before.

"Actually, the origins of Pentecostalism go back much farther...."

will study it now.

"Distinctive Teaching of Pentecostalism" - hopefully this can be confirmed, by someone in the Movement if possible.

seems like this is where the disagreements come in....that's fine. i'm sure we can narrow it down.

k....ttyl

 

[unclefester]

I won't post the entire article again but I will provide the following link that traces the history of Pentecostalism and it's keynote personalities from it's beginnings. This article can be read in it's entirety or one can simply choose to read the isolated pieces per keynote person as interested. It is the most thorough writing on the topic and persons I have read to date ... without becoming overly cumbersome. This link is posted with the express consent of it's author, David W. Cloud.


THE STRANGE HISTORY OF PENTECOSTALISM

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