The Original Pentecostal Movement

[zone]

I use it also, but I'm not a KJV onlyist. David Cloud IS.​ Please don't make excuses for him or you.

but....the website just lists the same leaders listed in The Dictionary of Pentecostal-Charismatic Movements.
they're listed alphabetically.

THE STRANGE HISTORY OF PENTECOSTALISM

it might be useful, if Mr. Cloud has something wrong to provide an alternative source which disproves the thing.
i would think.

the point (for me at least), is that these are recognized leaders...aren't they?
are we not to pay heed to what they say?
if not....why not?

 

[Stephen63]

""the original movement of the early 1900's"

okay thank you. this was really what i was asking.

so is it safe to say now that you basically consider the Pentecostal Movement of the early 1900s the beginning of the Movement?

is this reasonably accurate?:

Origin/History

Pentecostal historians usually date the beginning of Pentecostalism to the experience of two key figures at the turn of the Twentieth Century. Charles Fox Parnham (1873-1929), the founder of Bethel Bible College in Topeka, Kansas, became convinced from his study of Paul’s letters that the gifts of the Holy Spirit (especially the speaking in tongues) were available to Christians of his day also. The first incident of such tongues-speaking happened at Bethel Bible in 1901. In April, 1906, one of Parnham’s former students, W. J. Seymour, who was preaching in Los Angeles became a catalyst for an outpouring of the Holy Spirit. As he was preaching at a Methodist Church on Azusa Street on the need for every Christian to have a personal Pentecost experience (as it happened to the 120 believers in Acts 2:1-4), many in attendance were baptized in the Holy Spirit, which was evidenced in some by the speaking of tongues, and others by miraculous healings. The revival and the outpouring of the Spirit lasted for three months. Word quickly spread, and thousands traveled to Los Angeles, many of whom were also allegedly baptized in the Holy Spirit. These then gladly took the Pentecostal message and experience back to their homes. By 1909 there were 12 Pentecostal preaching stations in Los Angles. Within a generation the Pentecostal movement had spread all over America and was a new force in Christendom.

Pentecostalism

if not, could you say what the author has wrong?
hoping to just get your approved history so that we might narrow down the discussion.
hopefully - the discussion can be about what you see went wrong with the Original Movement (if anything)....and so on.

that way, when the subject comes up, we won't need to wade through the stuff you reject to get to what you approve.

Are you really researching this, or are you copying what Stilly showed you?

 

[zone]

Why feed the penguins Stephen?
Let them splash in their own dialectic.
It's their happiness.
Leave them be.

Rick, please don't derail this thread with drive-bys
there's no reason i can think of to not offer the accepted History of the Pentecostal Movement.
specifically, The Original Pentecostal Movement...since the claim has been made it was different in some way from what we see today (which most seem to agree is not Biblical...or at least distance themselves from it - i mean Benny Hinn et al).

 

[zone]

Are you really researching this, or are you copying what Stilly showed you?

??

i'm trying to keep the number of histories to a minimum (for something to work with) until you provide the official history.
it's your opinion of the origin of the Pentecostal Movement i was interested in.
you know that.

in the meantime, we'll work with what we have.
if you're not interested in just providing sources you approve of, just say so stephen.

 

[zone]

anyway....:

Actually, the origins of Pentecostalism go back much farther. The first Pentecostals were members of the Nineteenth Century Holiness Movement, which began to reassert John Wesley’s teaching of Christian perfection, sometimes known as entire sanctification. Wesley’s teaching of entire sanctification had in turn had been influenced by German pietism (the Moravians). Each of these movements taught that the Christian was to seek and experience a second work of grace (the first work of grace being justification), namely, Christian perfection and entire sanctification. The Holiness Movement was associated with the revivals of evangelist Charles Finney (1792-1875) in the 1820s and 1830s. More than anyone else, Finney was responsible for popularizing the teaching of entire sanctification, which he said was an instantaneous act following conversion, which granted perfect liberation from all sin, including sinful thoughts. He also claimed that this entire sanctification is the normal experience of Christians. After the Civil War, when a spirit of worldliness had entered the churches, Methodist churches began holding revivals stressing the need for the experience of entire sanctification. This in turn started a national Holiness Movement, which caused schism within the Methodist Church. Its proponents became known as “holy rollers.”

The family tree of Pentecostalism is, therefore, as follows: Pietism -- the Moravians -- Wesley -- Finney -- Holiness Movement -- Pentecostalism.

Pentecostalism

Distinctive Teaching of Pentecostalism

In the words of Frederick Dale Bruner: “The distinctive teaching of the Pentecostal movement concerns the experience, evidence, and power of what Pentecostals call the baptism in the Holy Spirit.

Pentecostalism

....

so is it reasonable to say: The distinctive teaching of the Pentecostal movement concerns the experience, evidence, and power of what Pentecostals call the [baptism in the Holy Spirit?

 

[Stephen63]

??

i'm trying to keep the number of histories to a minimum (for something to work with) until you provide the official history.
it's your opinion of the origin of the Pentecostal Movement i was interested in.
you know that.
in the meantime, we'll work with what we have.
if you're not interested in just providing sources you approve of, just say so stephen.

My "opinion" to you is just a voodoo doll to stab full of pins & needles.
1. Why would I do that?
2. Why would anyone else here care about my opinion?

 

[zone]

not even a link to an approved history?
okay then.

 

[RickShafer]

Rick, please don't derail this thread with drive-bys
there's no reason i can think of to not offer the accepted History of the Pentecostal Movement.
specifically, The Original Pentecostal Movement...since the claim has been made it was different in some way from what we see today (which most seem to agree is not Biblical...or at least distance themselves from it - i mean Benny Hinn et al).

What drive-bys?





Behold the great emperor secessionists.......

 

[The_highwayman]

Just as I thought would happen. The entire thread is just smoke screens for attacking Pentecostal Beliefs and nothing more and nothing less. I find it boring that whenever this topic is brought up, we only discuss Speaking in Tongues and nothing else.

I find it very funny that those who believe in cessation and the non full Gospel and have zero experience and closed minds to the Full Gospel always seem to be the ones that try to convince those that do believe in the full Gospel how it all should work or does not work.

Do us heathens a favor, and stop trying to save us from ourselves. We are perfectly fine and understand we have some bad seeds in our own camp and we can discern for ourselves the bad seeds without all your expertise on the subject, which would be a big fat GOOSE EGG.

 

[zone]

What drive-bys?

View attachment 61459

View attachment 61461

Behold the great emperor secessionists.......

they're adorable.

 

[zone]

we can discern for ourselves the bad seeds

are they a secret? an inhouse type thing?
no, in reality all doctrine and practices are to be examined.
with or without your help.
apparently without.

please start your own thread.

 

[SarahM777]

not even a link to an approved history?
okay then.

How about this one Zone?

Oral Roberts University
The Origins of the Pentecostal Movement

by Vinson Synan, Ph.D.
(Formerly Director of the Holy Spirit Research Center; now Dean, the College of Divinity Regent University)


Although the Pentecostal movement had its beginnings in the United States, it owed much of its basic theology to earlier British perfectionistic and charismatic movements. At least three of these, the Methodist/Holiness movement, the Catholic Apostolic movement of Edward Irving, and the British Keswick "Higher Life" movement prepared the way for what appeared to be a spontaneous outpouring of the Holy Spirit in America.


Perhaps the most important immediate precursor to Pentecostalism was the Holiness movement which issued from the heart of Methodism at the end of the Nineteenth Century. From John Wesley, the Pentecostals inherited the idea of a subsequent crisis experience variously called "entire sanctification,"" perfect love," "Christian perfection," or "heart purity." It was John Wesley who posited such a possibility in his influential tract, A Plain Account of Christian Perfection (1766). It was from Wesley that the Holiness Movement developed the theology of a "second blessing." It was Wesley's colleague, John Fletcher, however, who first called this second blessing a "baptism in the Holy Spirit," an experience which brought spiritual power to the recipient as well as inner cleansing. This was explained in his major work, Checks to Antinominianism (1771). During the Nineteenth Century, thousands of Methodists claimed to receive this experience, although no one at the time saw any connection with this spirituality and speaking in tongues or any of the other charisms.

In the following century, Edward Irving and his friends in London suggested the possibility of a restoration of the charisms in the modern church. A popular Presbyterian pastor in London, Irving led the first attempt at "charismatic renewal" in his Regents Square Presbyterian Church in 1831. Although tongues and prophecies were experienced in his church, Irving was not successful in his quest for a restoration of New Testament Christianity. In the end, the "Catholic Apostolic Church " which was founded by his followers, attempted to restore the "five-fold ministries" (of apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers) in addition to the charisms. While his movement failed in England, Irving did succeed in pointing to glossolalia as the "standing sign" of the baptism in the Holy Spirit, a major facet in the future theology of the Pentecostals.

[TABLE="width: 95%"]
[TR]
[TD]Another predecessor to Pentecostalism was the Keswick "Higher Life" movement which flourished in England after 1875. Led at first by American holiness teachers such as Hannah Whitall Smith and William E. Boardman, the Keswick teachers soon changed the goal and content of the "second blessing" from the Wesleyan emphasis on "heart purity" to that of an "enduement of spiritual power for service." Thus, by the time of the Pentecostal outbreak in America in 1901, there had been at least a century of movements emphasizing a second blessing called the "baptism in the Holy Spirit" with various interpretations concerning the content and results of the experience. In America, such Keswick teachers as A.B. Simpson and A.J. Gordon also added to the movement at large an emphasis on divine healing "as in the atonement" and the premillenial rapture of the church.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]



The Origins of the Pentecostal Movement - Oral Roberts University - A Christian College, based in Tulsa Oklahoma.

 

[RickShafer]

Listen you penguins, the gifts were always in the body of Christ.
From the day of Pentecost until now.
- No change.....as I have shown you two in the scriptures, yet you refuse to hear.
- Thus proving the point that the dull eyes must be opened, and the deaf ears must be unstopped.....
by the Holy Spirit .
There was a reason Paul wiped the dust off of his feet and went to the gentiles.
- - -What was it?
- - - Religion. - I implore you two to search the scriptures.

 

[SarahM777]

Listen you penguins, the gifts were always in the body of Christ.
From the day of Pentecost until now.
- No change.....as I have shown you two in the scriptures, yet you refuse to hear.
- Thus proving the point that the dull eyes must be opened, and the deaf ears must be unstopped.....

UMM But Rick,the Assemblies teach it's a restoration of the gifts. (I was AOG) Even within the movement itself they first said it was a RESTORATION of the gifts not a continuation. It is a second blessing etc etc. not a continuation. Many make the claim it's a restoration of the gifts for the end times.

You continue to refused to actually read the history of what they said about this. They even point to the gifts having ceased and are being RESTORED in these latter times.

And what's wrong with penguins?

 

[SarahM777]

Listen you penguins, the gifts were always in the body of Christ.
From the day of Pentecost until now.
- No change.....as I have shown you two in the scriptures, yet you refuse to hear.
- Thus proving the point that the dull eyes must be opened, and the deaf ears must be unstopped.....
by the Holy Spirit .
There was a reason Paul wiped the dust off of his feet and went to the gentiles.
- - -What was it?
- - - Religion. - I implore you two to search the scriptures.

Sorry again Rick but this is from the AOG own website

Brief History of the Assemblies of God


The Pentecostal Revival



One of the focal points of the emerging Pentecostal movement was known as the Azusa Street revival (1906-09). It was an unlikely location for an event that would change the face of Christianity. In the summer of 1906, revival erupted in the newly-formed congregation meeting at the small, run-down Apostolic Faith Mission at 312 Azusa Street in Los Angeles, California. Critics attacked the congregation because its mild-mannered African-American Holiness preacher, William J. Seymour, preached racial reconciliation and the restoration of biblical spiritual gifts. The revival soon became a local sensation, then attracted thousands of curiosity seekers and pilgrims from around the world.

History of the Assemblies of God

Are they lying Rick when they themselves state very clearly it was a restoration of the gifts? And even more so when it was one of the very founders of the movements who even preached so.

 

[RickShafer]

Sarah, read it, it says a movement, it does not say a restarting of the gifts.
It speaks of a certain revival that happened.
It never says the gifts were dormant from the apostles until 1906 or whenever.

 

[SarahM777]

Sarah, read it, it says a movement, it does not say a restarting of the gifts.
It speaks of a certain revival that happened.
It never says the gifts were dormant from the apostles until 1906 or whenever.

UMMM Rick did you know the definition of restoration?

Merriam Webster

[h=2]res·to·ra·tion[/h] noun \ˌres-tə-ˈrā-shən\: the act or process of returning something to its original condition by repairing it, cleaning it, etc.
: the act of bringing back something that existed before
: the act of returning something that was stolen or taken

 

[RickShafer]

Mere words.
Please, to revive is to refresh.
To bring back fervor?
To bring back fire?
To refresh?
It is a word describing a certain happening.

Name when the gifts ceased, or when the AoG or Pentecostal Movement said the gifts ceased?

 

[SarahM777]

Mere words.
Please, to revive is to refresh.
To bring back fervor?
To bring back fire?
To refresh?
It is a word describing a certain happening.

Name when the gifts ceased, or when the AoG or Pentecostal Movement said the gifts ceased?

Sorry Rick,

Posted it all before. It does not appear you read it then and what makes me think you will read it now? I don't have time to go through the effort if someone will not actually read it. (Too many other things that I also need to get done also)

 

[RickShafer]

[SUP]12 [/SUP]For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

So, you say this has happened.
And on top of that, you claim the gifts of the Holy Spirit have stopped.
- So not only do you claim that you know.....(not only yourself)....BUT GOD HIMSELF as He is right now!
What? - That is what you the scripture claims.
Unless you say,....."No, it only means that I (through the Word) see the gospel and so know I see (as it were), 'face to face'.