THE WILL OF GOD o

[jerrywlo]

Thanks. It is a lot to talk about to see the picture properly. Let me deal with some of your concerns.

Man, as the source of evil I ment to be individual or collective. Joh 10:10 has been frequently used to present the role of satan. Yet in the context of Jo 9:40 to Joh 10:10 Jesus is speaking to Pharisess in parables about blind Jewish leadership, spiritual shepherd.

In case of 2Co 12:7 the messanger of satan buffets Paul to guard him from sin. It was probably some sort of infirmity which Paul suffered as the consequence of his frequent inprisonments and beetings.
The "delivere" 1Co 5:5 also can not be Satan as his interest is just oposite according to the wordly teaching . He would be working against himself as Jesus notes. It can only be the Jew or Roman authority who persecuted Christians in barbaric ways. That, I think, looks logical.

The fact that Satan has "the article prefixed" serves no prove. I have pointed out somwhere else that Jesus was speaking to Jews the language they understood at the time. Parables was one of the means to hide things from them that they "not understand, are not converted and their sins not forgiven" Mar 4:11-12.

So let us, please, bear in mind that we read things which were said to Jews to keep them in their pogan beliefs. We need to go beyond this and unmask what has been hidden. Otherwise we will end up with them as the followers of the "harlot" of Re 17.

Paul, pointing to the "antichrist", makes it clear in 2Th 2:3 that it will be "that man of sin", V 8 "that wicked one" and not a supernatual "entity". He will be the one described in Da 7:8 as "little horn" given power by satan 2Th 2:9, Romans who gave "him" the power by Constantine in 325.

God gave evil spirit to king Saul (1Sa 16:14). God tests people by producing "false supernatural prove" (De 12:1-3) or entice people by lying spirits (2Ch 18:21).

There has been no power in the world besides the Power of God. He makes things happen to prove people if they love Him or shall follow pagan gods.

Please guys, dont frighten people with pogan gods. False teaching doesn't go unpunished. Look arround yourselves. Can you see the plagues around as predicted in De 28:16-68. Well, you say yes, I suppose. Do you know why we have so much suffering in the world today? If not, rea De 28:15.

God's wrath is hot against those who followed pogan Gods.

God bless

 

[jerrywlo]

Just to add.

Apostles were aware of the fact that blindness was a punishment for sin according to Joh 9:1-2. They knew from Ex 4:11 that it could only come from God .

We don't see much of demoniak activity in the N.T. besides the Gospels. Mar 4:34 But without a parable spake he not unto them... It was for the reason I have explained earlier.

Many of today's deformities are corrected by operations. Also illnesses are prevented by inoculation or treated succesfully by drugs. Does it mean that todays demons, if active as some clame, are "removed" by operations or scared by drugs? Ha Ha Ha.

The next evidence that God didn't want to speak directly are symbolic messages. God gave some information somewhere else and provided clarification or continued in symbols. Da 7 and Re 12 is a classical example. How often we hear someone say "it is written" pointing to Re 12? He fails to notice that it begins with a difficult symbology which he fails to understand or willingly "forgets". He treats it literally. The result is shocking but very popular.

God bless

 

[WhereToGo]

I have to admit, the "no satan" theory is a new one I haven't heard before. I can't get past Matthew 12:24-28 though, as well as in mark and luke, where Jesus is talking when he is accused of casting out demons by the power of satan. If satan were simply a created false being, why wouldn't he address this here and tell them so? Instead he tells them that satan does not cast out satan, instead of saying "there is no satan." The fact that this is repeated 3 times in the gospels I think shows that he is indeed a real being.

He only has the power we allow him to have though, he is powerless against the name of Jesus.

 

[jerrywlo]

Please remember this:

Mt 12:24-28 is a parable not a face fact. Speaking in parables was a way of hiding things from Pharisees that they "not understand, are not converted and their sins not forgiven" Mar 4:11-12. It was God's way of dealing with them for their backsliding. They were custodians of His Word yet they became so corupted that they failed to recognise their saviour. Jesus was sent to save them not to teach them things they should have known. God spoke to them through many prophets in the past, but they killed them. We need to understand that God is longsuffering. Yet His suffering ends from time to time with terrible consequences. The flood during Noah time is one to mention. 70 Year Israel's slavery in Babylon is another one. You can populate this list yourself.

 

[jerrywlo]

I would like to demonstrate how seletive we become to see what we want to see. It was proposed by NoahsDad that the accident reported in Ac 19:13-16 proves existance of real demonic forces. I don't, for a minute, argue against existance of a spiritual word arround us. What I say is that there is no power in the world which is not of God and not under His full control.

This is the quote:

Act 19:13 Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth.
Act 19:14 And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so.
Act 19:15 And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?
Act 19:16 And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.
And as you see in this account those who didnt take into consideration this was a real demon.the circomstances was disasterous...Not only were they not subscribers to the Christian belief they also didnt believe in a satanic belief either.Look at the word Vagabon Jews.Who were these folx?what was their angle?why were they tryin to do this?I'll leave this for another time as to avoid a digression.(sorry)anyhoo .you see how Not taking serious the presence of an outside sourse of evil can prove disasterous
But I can see what you are saying too,The taking of this to the extreme to the point of worship can be equally disasterous
Holla!


We know that this story continues in verses 17-19:

Act 19:17 And this was known to all the Jews and Greeks also dwelling at Ephesus; and fear fell on them all, and the name of the Lord Jesus was magnified.
Act 19:18 And many that believed came, and confessed, and shewed their deeds.
Act 19:19 Many of them also which used curious arts brought their books together, and burned them before all men: and they counted the price of them, and found it fifty thousand pieces of silver.
Act 19:20 So mightily grew the word of God and prevailed.

Let us consider the final result. The incident became known. No one made fun or money caling upon the name of Jesus. Many were converted and the Word of God grew mighty.

So what is the conclusion from this incident? We have the vagabond non Christian Jews, exorcists, casting evil spirits (A) most likely for financial gain, caling upon the name of Jesus. Enother evil spirit (B), must be of the same demoniac world, atacks and punishes the vagabongs for what? For casting his friends (A) by calling on the name of Jesus.

It is confusing, isn't it? Why would he (B) care who they ware or by whose name they did it? Shouldn't he rathe be angry that they disturb his associates work?

Do we see here an interest of satan and his house being advanced or God's Word magnified. It seems clear that the latter was the case. So let us ask ourselves: was the evil spirit (B) of God or of satan? If it was of satan than he was probably fired from his position. If it was of God than it did a great think. In one incident he made a big turn about among nonchristians. That is how God works.

So let us find out whether the evil spirit (A) was of God or of satan. We find in the Bible many verses that God did great works. God did miracle works by Jesus to show that Jesus was His approved one:
Act 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

God provided a blind man to manifest His work Joh 9:1-3. Yet the common belief was that such people ware posessed by demons. Do we realy believe today that when we get sick, with whatever desease, we are posessed by a demon? Then we go to a doctor to get drags and we get well? Are we sound?

Tell me what you think

 

[NoahsDad]

I Was under the assumption that you didnt believe at all in the spiritual world around us and that God was the only force in this world age thereby supposing that we are already in the millenial age of which I donot subscribe
At all.So if you indeed are saying that there is no power in Satanics i can whole heartedly agree but if you are denying the existance of a negative and opposing force then i can agree to disagree with you.
We all know that through the death burrial and resurection that Christ took away the sting of death and the victory of the grave that All are offered eternal life.But i still can see an outside influence on the spiritaswell an internal influence on each person

 

[jerrywlo]

Throughout the entire O.T. God and only He delt with Israel. There is no hint what so ever of existance or influence of other force beyond the one of God. Whenever they moved to observe pagan gods God aflicted them. Everything was of God. God brought them to hard labour Ps 107:12, to aflict them because of their transgressions V17. God turns fruitful land into barrenness because of wickedness of them that dwell there V 34. If they go away He brings them low through oppression, afliction and sorrow V39. This is the patern of God's predictable behaviour.

But God also sent leanness into their soul Ps 106:15. God, not Satan, the negative force turned hearts of pogan nations to hate His people Psa 105:7 He is the LORD our God: his judgments are in all the earth. Psa 99:8 Thou answeredst them, O LORD our God: thou wast a God that forgavest them, though thou tookest vengeance of their inventions. Psa 94:1 O LORD God, to whom vengeance belongeth; O God, to whom vengeance belongeth, shew thyself. Psa 94:2 Lift up thyself, thou judge of the earth: render a reward to the proud.

I hope that we can meditate on those few verses, and there is many many more, to notice where the negative force comes.

May peace of God be with you all

 

[onwingsaseagles]

Man still has dominion over the earth? I thought that was removed by the fall and lucifer was now the prince of the power of the air, this is his realm by how I read it now, until God takes it back.

Jesus reclaim the dominion man gave to Satan and gave it to those that have faith in Him. Christians have the dominion, and God does wait for our prayers to move on our behalves.

P.S. Nice O.P. babyblue.

 

[WhereToGo]

Jesus reclaim the dominion man gave to Satan and gave it to those that have faith in Him. Christians have the dominion, and God does wait for our prayers to move on our behalves.

P.S. Nice O.P. babyblue.

Yeah I didn't mean to imply that we didn't have it again through Jesus, but those outside of Jesus don't have it, that's why it only calls him a prince, because Jesus is KING.

 

[jerrywlo]

Are you sure that Satan in operation in the world?

2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

Heb 12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
Heb 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
Heb 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
Heb 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
Heb 12:11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

May peace of God be with you all

 

[Kyra]

Jerrywlo would you please clarify something for me- ( a yes or no answer would be really helpful):

1.) Do you believe the Devil/Satan/Lucifer exists?

2.) Do you believe he works to steal, kill and destroy?

 

[jerrywlo]

1.) Do you believe the Devil/Satan/Lucifer exists?

I am a Christian not a pagan. I follow God according to His Word. The Hebrew word "satan" means an adversary. Peter was Satan to Jesus for he was interested in things of men not of God.
Mat 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of
men.

2.) Do you believe he works to steal, kill and destroy?

This quote comes from Joh 10:10. When we read the context of it from Joh 9:39 we see that Jesus referes to Pharisees and not to what the world makes us to think.

May peace of God be with you all

 

[Kyra]

Jerrywlo- So the answer is no. You do NOT believe a distinct entity who is known as the Devil/Satan/Lucifer exists.

 

[jerrywlo]

Kyra, would you please, instead of asking me for a general statement, elaborate first on Heb 12:5-22 and 2Th2:11 to prove to me that those things are done by satan?

 

[jerrywlo]

Kyra, if you find Heb 12 and 2Th2 difficult to explain than i would like you to consider the following verses:
Deu 32:39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.
Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Jer 11:11 Therefore thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will bring evil upon them, which they shall not be able to escape; and though they shall cry unto me, I will not hearken unto them.
Jer 11:17 For the LORD of hosts, that planted thee, hath pronounced evil against thee, for the evil of the house of Israel and of the house of Judah, which they have done against themselves to provoke me to anger in offering incense unto Baal.
Jer 11:23 And there shall be no remnant of them: for I will bring evil upon the men of Anathoth, even the year of their visitation.
Eze 14:13 Son of man, when the land sinneth against me by trespassing grievously, then will I stretch out mine hand upon it, and will break the staff of the bread thereof, and will send famine upon it, and will cut off man and beast from it:

2.) Do you believe he works to steal, kill and destroy? This was your question to me.

Kyra, who works to steal, kill and destroy?

Kyra, please no offence, I am trying to incourage you to read the Bible. You will find dozens and dozens of such verses there. Following the story- tellers is not beneficial for Christians.

 

[pipy]

I bleive God's plan for every man kind is to rule.
The thing which I don't understand is God's will in christians life. Sometimes God come in my way and make me loose what is mine(mostly things I love having)and lighten up HIM self in a new way for me.I love this ,it made me get closer to GOD.But, I am starting to develope a new behaviour that GOD want me to loose all what i have & don't want me to have the things that i desire most.What do you think? Have you exprienced this in your life?

 

[jerrywlo]

Yes, God made me to loose a lot of matarial things before I have learned that I have nothing that doesn,t come from Him. 1Co 4:7...what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?
Look what king David knew:
1Ch 29:11 Thine, O LORD, is the greatness, and the power, and the glory, and the victory, and the majesty: for all that is in the heaven and in the earth is thine; thine is the kingdom, O LORD, and thou art exalted as head above all.
1Ch 29:12 Both riches and honour come of thee, and thou reignest over all; and in thine hand is power and might; and in thine hand it is to make great, and to give strength unto all.
1Ch 29:13 Now therefore, our God, we thank thee, and praise thy glorious name.
1Ch 29:14 But who am I, and what is my people, that we should be able to offer so willingly after this sort? for all things come of thee, and of thine own have we given thee.
1Ch 29:15 For we are strangers before thee, and sojourners, as were all our fathers: our days on the earth are as a shadow, and there is none abiding.
1Ch 29:16 O LORD our God, all this store that we have prepared to build thee an house for thine holy name cometh of thine hand, and is all thine own.

Can you see what made him so great before God? What is essential for us is this:
Mat 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

May peace of God be with you all

 

[onwingsaseagles]

Kyra, would you please, instead of asking me for a general statement, elaborate first on Heb 12:5-22 and 2Th2:11 to prove to me that those things are done by satan?

Why can you not give a yes or no answer do you believe in Satan or the Devil ect...., and if not then why did Jesus say that He saw him fall like lightning?

 

[jerrywlo]

Who were the satans, the oposers to Jesus. Not Jews? Didn't they foll in 70 AD?
Who were the promoters of the pagan doctrine about damons. Not Jews? Did you see such doctrine in the O.T?

 

[NoahsDad]

keep readin jerry you ay get it in another 100 years or so ......readin one verse at a time ....try reading the whole chapter next time