Perfection, Holyness, Purity.

[Cobus]

Herose can the Spirit of God make alive my flesh to WALK IN HIS STAUTES? Can the HEART OF GOD IN ME SIN? Can the Holy Spirit sin... My spirit is GONE! God says He gives me a NEW heart and a NEW Spirit.... HIS... where is my Spirit if God PUTS HIS SPIRIT IN ME? And where is my heart/soul if God puts HIS soul in me?

Why do you not get it... GOD DOES NOT COME AND ABIDE WITH SINNERS... HE DOES NOT... He abides with the ones that KEEPETH HIS WORD....

And they KEEP ALL OF HIS WORD... NOT SIN HIS WORD.... God say tight through the Bible.... SINNERS REPENT... TURN TO GOD.... WALK FROM EVIL... RULE OVER SIN.... BE RIGHTEOUS.... BE HOLY.... OBEY GOD.... STAND AGAINST SATAN.... TURN FROM DARKNESS.... COME TO GLORY..... SEEK GOD IN ALL YOUR HEART....

There is not ONE verse where God says.... Go sin and be blessed.... NOT ONE... why do you people fight for the sin in your life...THERE IS NO JUSTIFICATION OF SIN WITHOUT REPENTANCE... TURN FROM YOUR SIN, OR YOU ARE ALREADY DEAD IN THEM...

Some people are already DEAD in their sin... but you ALL HAVE HOPE... REPENT and go to GOd for forgiveness justification sanctification and SALVATION... The SET FREE INDEED IN CHRSIT JESUS!!!!

May God have mercy on all and grace that SAVES COMPLETELY fro all of you... I am out for now...

Lord please Show them the PERFECT SALVATION IN CHRIST JESUS.... AMEN!

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Herose can the Spirit of God make alive my flesh to WALK IN HIS STAUTES? Can the HEART OF GOD IN ME SIN? Can the Holy Spirit sin... My spirit is GONE! God says He gives me a NEW heart and a NEW Spirit.... HIS... where is my Spirit if God PUTS HIS SPIRIT IN ME? And where is my heart/soul if God puts HIS soul in me?

No. The flesh must die. Corruption cannot inherit incorruption. Only the spirit is incapable of sinning. He gave you a new spirit, but he did not give you new flesh.

Why do you not get it... GOD DOES NOT COME AND ABIDE WITH SINNERS... HE DOES NOT... He abides with the ones that KEEPETH HIS WORD....

Of course he does. If you don't understand that fact, you do not understand grace or holiness.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

There is not ONE verse where God says.... Go sin and be blessed.... NOT ONE... why do you people fight for the sin in your life...THERE IS NO JUSTIFICATION OF SIN WITHOUT REPENTANCE... TURN FROM YOUR SIN, OR YOU ARE ALREADY DEAD IN THEM...

You are mischaracterizing our position based on your ignorance. We do not advocate the practice of sin, but fight for the truth that we are by nature sinners who have been saved and made holy by grace through faith.

You seem to be unable in your mind to distinguish the difference between being a sinner by nature and being a sinner by deed. So your way of dealing with the problem of sin is to believe that you are no longer a sinner by nature, and therefore incapable of sin. If that's true, satan has truly blinded your mind.

 

[Delija]

Problem with him is literally interpretation of Bible in some verses.

 

[RickShafer]

Here are christians in three continents with three entirely different world views telling Cobus something.

 

[RickShafer]

Cobus,
Surrender to the blood of Jesus and stop trying to be holy for Him, so you can do some good.
The holiness is His.
The righteousness is His. (He will lead you into all good works through His Spirit ....)

 

[posthuman]

First he said, “Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them”—though they were offered in accordance with the law. Then he said, “Here I am, I have come to do your will.” He sets aside the first to establish the second. And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Hebrews 10:8-10

by faith in Him, not by works, is our righteousness established before God, and by works is it made manifest to all men.

 

[Cobus]

Ok let me ASK the WHOLE world... EVERY sinner out there.... Is there a God you know that do nt want you to sin? Ok there is... He not only do not want you to sin, but He wants you to KEEP HIS WORD... And he even has the audasity to tell you as sinner.... BE PERFECT!!! Now this God of HIGH ... HEAVENLY HIGH standards... Is He a FAIR GOD? Or does he LIE... He did not really mean you should be perfect as He si righte here on earth, did He?

Now If this RAIR and JUST God demanded you to be Perfect, do you believe he has the power to make you perfect? Even here on earth... I mean He did say BE PERFECT... not BECOOME PERFECT AS I AM WHEN YOU COME INTO HEAVEN AFTER YOU DIED AS SINNER... that is not what He said....

So if He wants you to NOT sin... Can HE actually make you a NON SINNER HERE? If He can't and does not do so, then HE WANTS WHAT HE CAN'T GET... then SATAN WINS... Satan wants sin, God wants righteousness (no sin) We are all very capable of sin, but who is capable of a HOLY LIFE AND PERFECT AS HE IS PERFECT.... JESUS....ONLY JESUS....

That is why God HAS to cleanse you AND REMOVE YOU FROM THE FLESH... God REMOVES YOU FROM THE FLESH AND HE PUTS HIS SON'S SPIRIT AND SOUL IN YOU...God does not clean you and leave you to get dirty AGAIN... He REMOVES YOU FROM THE FLESH.... ANd it is true....IF HE DOES NOT PUT HIS SPIRIT IN THAT FLESH AND HIS SOUL IN THAT FLESH THEN IT IS JUST A DEAD BODY....

But if the Spirit of GOD ENTERS... That VERY moment yours LEAVE... then God HIMSELF filled that flesh... And see there, Another person is BORN OF GOD.... Jesus is BORN AGAIN IN FLESH.... YIPEEEEE now they get it God....

Every statement I make I can prove with a verse EVERY SINGLE ONE IS IN GOD'S WORD... that is the Gospel of Jesus saving a sinner....

 

[Cobus]

Rick if I EVER will be holy, it will be the Spirit of God that makes me holy, NOT MY OWN... mine can only be pure, and taken to Father.... There is only ONE HOLY SPIRIT, and HE IS THE ONLY SPIRITIN ALL GOD's CHILDREN.... And he ONLY Witness with PURE SPIRITS...NOT SINNING SIRITS...

So sinners GET PURE... PURIFY THYSELVES AS HE IS PURE... AND REMEMBER IN HIM IS NO SIN... SO PURIFY THEE-SELVES AS HE IS PURE, THAT is your ONLY HOPE....


Lok Ricky do you have this hope to be called a child of God... God calling you a child of Himself.. not yuo calling yourself a child of God and still you sin... that is ridicilous... Sinners called God's Children when he says expressivey His children does not sin and CANNOT sin..1 John 3:9 1 John 3:18... MAtt hew 5:48...


Look here Rick, if you have hope that GOD WILL CALL YOU HIS CHILD this is what you HAVE to do.... It is YOUR JOB...NOTE THE... PURIFIETH HIMESELF... 1 John 3: 3.... And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
PURE AS HE IS PURE RICK ALL BY YOURSELF ME MAN.... PURIFY YOURSELF.. NOT MAKE DIRTY WITH SIN PURIFY...

 

[Cobus]

I will ask God if it is His will I will post the SEED of God in a thread... SEEMS to me many here has NO UNDERSTANDING WHAT THE SEED OF GOD IS.... I mean itis the SEED that makes us without sin, is it not....KEEPS us absolutely sanctified.....

We will do that Study GOD WILLING... May the Lord give me wisdom and understanding to relate HIS SEED to you.... Amen!

 

[Nick01]

Cobus, regarding your 1 John post. I think you misuse 1 John a little bit. The opening verses are describing the fact that Christ was incarnate, and amongst us in the flesh. It's much more focused on the fact of Christ and his righteousness than anything else. Of course Christians don't walk in the darkness - no one is debating that. What we're discussing is at which point a Christian can be considered to be holy in their own right and action, not simply as imputed or represented by Christ.

I agree with you (I think, given you didn't actually answer my question from Luke) that we are justified at the point of repentance, precisely because Jesus cleanses us. But I don't think it follows then that we are instantly unable to sin (i.e. we cannot perform actions that are sinful). If that were the case, that would seem to cause problems for numerous instances where Jesus, Paul, John, James, etc seem to assume that those who are disciples of Christ may need to repent. Like the very next verses in 1 John:

2 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; 2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

You seem to mostly argue from the premise that when we are made a new creation, we literally become Jesus clones, that our old spirit is completely gone, and only the Spirit of Christ remains, in some ultimate ontological sense. Thus it is impossible to ever sin, and we are 100% sanctified in the present. I'm not sure if that holds up for the reasons that I've already outlined, and others - you are still you. I am still me. Paul is still Paul, who talks with both the voice of the Lord, but also his own (1 Cor 7). So clearly, there is a sense in which he speaks as himself, not on behalf of the Lord. So you'll have to clarify what you mean when you say "Cobus is DEAD ... Cobus died on the cross with Jesus". Certainly you are in one sense, but you are also still you in another sense. Which sense are you meaning?

It seems clear to me we will not truly be like Jesus until the end. Again, as John says:

3 See what great love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him. 2 Dear friends,now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. 3 All who have this hope in him purify [ongoing present] themselves, just as he is pure.

Now, of course, let us not be disobedient, and plunge into sin. But I do not think that means that we will not ever sin post conversion, and that we are perfect. We are still in the flesh, in a world of flesh. We hold to our justification, the work achieved by Christ alone, we listen to his words taught by his Spirit who shapes our hearts and continues to sanctify us, and we await the future glorification when the old order of things passes away and we are made like Christ. But that has not happened yet. In some ways it's the fallacy of Hymenaeus and Philetus, except you seem to say you cannot commit sin, whereas it seems they taught that your actions didn't matter at all (i.e. proto-Gnosticism)

15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth. 16 But avoid worldly and empty chatter, for it will lead to further ungodliness, 17 and their talk will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, 18 men who have gone astray from the truth saying that the resurrection has already taken place, and they upset the faith of some.19 Nevertheless, the firm foundation of God stands, having this seal, “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Everyone who names the name of the Lord is to abstain from wickedness.”

 

[p_rehbein]

You are mischaracterizing our position based on your ignorance. We do not advocate the practice of sin, but fight for the truth that we are by nature sinners who have been saved and made holy by grace through faith.

You seem to be unable in your mind to distinguish the difference between being a sinner by nature and being a sinner by deed. So your way of dealing with the problem of sin is to believe that you are no longer a sinner by nature, and therefore incapable of sin. If that's true, satan has truly blinded your mind.

Just wondering here, but when we are born again, do we not receive a new "nature?"

Being "dead" to sin IMO simply means sin no longer has dominion over us, we are now children of the Promise. Those who have been buried in Christ, also are risen in Christ, and does this not change our "nature?"

 

[Nick01]

Just wondering here, but when we are born again, do we not receive a new "nature?"

Being "dead" to sin IMO simply means sin no longer has dominion over us, we are now children of the Promise. Those who have been buried in Christ, also are risen in Christ, and does this not change our "nature?"

Sure. I agree sin no longer has dominion over me. But I still disagree with the extent to which Cobus proposes it is impossible for Christians to sin or otherwise be contaminated in toto.

 

[p_rehbein]

Cobus,
Surrender to the blood of Jesus and stop trying to be holy for Him, so you can do some good.
The holiness is His.
The righteousness is His. (He will lead you into all good works through His Spirit ....)

there must be a misunderstanding between the various posters here. As I read Cobus, I see that he is saying it is NOT HIM, but the Holy Spirit that resides within him. He HAS surrendered his life to Jesus and states that more than once.

Just saying........now as for "trying to be holy," are we not to strive to live Christ-like? Is Christ not Holy? If Christ is Holy, and we are to strive to live Christ-like, then why should we not strive to live a holy life? Once we are saved, do we just find a wee little space somewhere we can go and sit in and cry Holy, Holy, Holy.......or do we get busy with doing the work that God has called us to do?

Yes, Sanctification is a life process, however that in and of itself reasons that we are to strive to live a holy life does it not?

 

[Nick01]

I will ask God if it is His will I will post the SEED of God in a thread... SEEMS to me many here has NO UNDERSTANDING WHAT THE SEED OF GOD IS.... I mean itis the SEED that makes us without sin, is it not....KEEPS us absolutely sanctified.....

We will do that Study GOD WILLING... May the Lord give me wisdom and understanding to relate HIS SEED to you.... Amen!

I know a cool story about seeds.

35 But someone will say, “How are the dead raised? What kind of body will they have when they come?”36 Foolish one! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37 And as for what you sow—you are not sowing the future body, but only a seed, perhaps of wheat or another grain. 38 But God gives it a body as He wants, and to each of the seeds its own body. 39 Not all flesh is the same flesh; there is one flesh for humans, another for animals, another for birds, and another for fish.40 There are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is different from that of the earthly ones. 41 There is a splendor of the sun, another of the moon, and another of the stars; for one star differs from another star in splendor. 42 So it is with the resurrection of the dead:
Sown in corruption, raised in incorruption;
43 sown in dishonor, raised in glory;
sown in weakness, raised in power;
44 sown a natural body, raised a spiritual body.

If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So it is written: The first man Adam became a living being; the last Adam became a life-giving Spirit. 46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, then the spiritual.

47 The first man was from the earth
and made of dust;
the second man is from heaven.
48 Like the man made of dust,
so are those who are made of dust;
like the heavenly man,
so are those who are heavenly.
49 And just as we have borne
the image of the man made of dust,
we will also bear
the image of the heavenly man.

50 Brothers, I tell you this: Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, and corruption cannot inherit incorruption. 51 Listen! I am telling you a mystery:

We will not all fall asleep,
but we will all be changed,
52 in a moment, in the blink of an eye,
at the last trumpet.
For the trumpet will sound,
and the dead will be raised incorruptible,
and we will be changed.
53 For this corruptible must be clothed
with incorruptibility,
and this mortal must be clothed
with immortality.
54 When this corruptible is clothed
with incorruptibility,
and this mortal is clothed
with immortality,
then the saying that is written will take place:
Death has been swallowed up in victory.
55 Death, where is your victory?
Death, where is your sting?
56 Now the sting of death is sin,
and the power of sin is the law.
57 But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory
through our Lord Jesus Christ!

58 Therefore, my dear brothers, be steadfast, immovable, always excelling in the Lord’s work,knowing that your labor in the Lord is not in vain.

 

[p_rehbein]

Here are christians in three continents with three entirely different world views telling Cobus something.

........ok, and? ........ there is Cobus, a Christian, telling Christian on three continents with three entirely different world views something...... and? ...........

Not for nothing, but this "world views" thing seems worldly does it not? I don't know if I would put much faith in "world views." Just saying. No sure where in Scripture we are taught to put our faith in "world views."

 

[Nick01]

there must be a misunderstanding between the various posters here. As I read Cobus, I see that he is saying it is NOT HIM, but the Holy Spirit that resides within him. He HAS surrendered his life to Jesus and states that more than once.

Just saying........now as for "trying to be holy," are we not to strive to live Christ-like? Is Christ not Holy? If Christ is Holy, and we are to strive to live Christ-like, then why should we not strive to live a holy life? Once we are saved, do we just find a wee little space somewhere we can go and sit in and cry Holy, Holy, Holy.......or do we get busy with doing the work that God has called us to do?

Yes, Sanctification is a life process, however that in and of itself reasons that we are to strive to live a holy life does it not?

I believe Cobus is arguing that you are already sanctified. There's no striving involved, there is no process - you are either sinless, or you are not. Saved, or not. One sin, you have shown that you were never truly justified, you were never sanctified, God's Spirit never dwelt in you.

 

[p_rehbein]

1st Timothy 2:1) I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; 2 .) For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. 3 .) For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4 .) Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 .) For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 .) Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. 7 .) Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not, a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity. 8 .) I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.

Psalms
134


1 .) Behold, bless ye the LORD, all ye servants of the LORD, which by night stand in the house of the LORD. 2 .) Lift up your hands in the sanctuary, and bless the LORD. 3 .) The LORD that made heaven and earth bless thee out of Zion.

 

[Cobus]

Nick you are so close to see that GOD does whith the FLESH he puts His seed into...

But I do not want to spoil th study of the SEED that keeps us in God's wil

Nick I would NEVER hammer one verse to something else it does not mean.. So remember to continue to read 1 John ... It only STARTS with the fellowship and cleansing and sins confesing...1 John runs right into the BORN OF GOD...

Nick God is only sattisfoed and pleased with ONE LIFE on earth... The life Christ JEss lives on this world. God says we should strive hard to enter into the straight gate... MANY try who shall not be able too...

Nick who are the people that are these MANY that seek to enter, but shall not be albe... Give me your take on the MANY that seek to enter... who are tehy, and why are they not able to enter into the narrow gate?

In that lies a LOT of answers about the Word of God...

I did not want to twist 1 John 1, I just packed a bit of 1 John 2, 3 and 5 in there...


I look at a saved person in this fashion... It is a person that GOD KEEPS FROM EVIL...JOhn 17, It is a person that is filled with God's Spirit... Ezek 36, John 3 and 2 Peter 1 and many more... It is a person that God did call, he did justify, and he did glorify... God completed the person from sinner to a man BORN OF GOD... I see a BORN of GOD person as a person that God started off as sinner, made him a Christian, that bcame saint by obeying the FAITH, and then God glorified the Saint with HIS HEART AND HIS SPIRIT to be a Perfect man unto the fulness, stature and measure of Christ Jesus HIMSELF...

Now let me just tell you how I beleive the process goes... God calls sinner. then God snctify, justify and purify that sinner to be as pure as God Himself is PURE... Pure meaning squeecky clean ...Red as ocre he was white as snow he is now...but this clean person is only a Saint... and not perfect yet... only without sin and living without sin... then God lets the world hate this SAINT for HIS NAME sake... and if the Saint endures t the end of SAINTSHIP, God make him PERFECT... Eph4:11 to 13.

So in short... Sinner to christian to saint to perfect man.... Getting clean is our Faith FOLLOWING CHRIST IN TRUTH... Making perfect is God's GLORY IN US. Christ Jesus IN US...
I tink you know enought o know this is how God does HIS SALVATION to save a sinner from evil to His Glory for HIS GLORY...

 

[RedTent]

I think all the people who say the law is nothing, we can't be perfect are just copping out from hearing anything teaching them to do anything the Lord asks them to do.

We are to listen to all scripture, it all is God breathed. It is the same God who said be perfect that said we are under grace, not the law. The same God told us that we are not saved by works that told us to obey. The same God told us how to use animal blood as our sacrifice as told us not to use animal blood but the blood of Christ. God does not change His mind about how we can walk with Him, the principles of that walk was built into creation and they remain the same. It is up to us to listen to God and understand. If we don't we are to study, and go on our knees before Him until we do understand that this is not an indication that God says different things but we are to understand the principles behind it and obey.