Understand Your Local Jewish People: Tikkun olam

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Dec 21, 2012
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#1
Understand Your Local Jewish People: Tikkun olam


I'm posting this in the interest of edifying all about the cultural and religious nature of modern Judaism and how it differs from my Christian worldview. There are many substantially uninformed posts on the topic of Judaism here on Christian Chat, so I assume I will need to cover a lot of background.


Background #1 - Lack on Historical Context - Postmodernism

The 20th century brought us mechanized war, mechanized genocide, airplane warfare, etc. It was significant but not the beginning or end of history, as we know. It also brought all sorts of "philosophers" which we define as "postmodern", literally one more horrible than the other.

link -> Criticism of postmodernism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (laugh or cry I don't know)

Really, it's more like...

"It's impossible for words to describe what is necessary to those who do not know what horror means. Horror... Horror has a face... and you must make a friend of horror. Horror and moral terror are your friends. If they are not, then they are enemies to be feared. They are truly enemies!" Col. Kurtz, Apocalypse Now (1979)

I am a Christian--I seek Jesus Christ. I will not put up with forgetting history, racism, antisemitism, 20th- or 21-century "philosophy", genocide denial, commodity fetishism, advertising campaigns, television, know-nothingism, Bible versionism, false teachers, false prophets, false Jews, teachers who willfully continue to sin after they're born again, etc. because, really, I no longer care for anything other than God and what God said.

God told me to love my neighbors (that's the entire human race) so if no one's told you today that they love you, well I do!

That being said, Noam Chomsky isn't fooled by postmodern silliness and neither am I. Chomsky is a Jewish atheist anarchist (not Spirit) and I'm a born-again Christian, but that doesn't matter, we can both see right through linguistic devices and sophomoric propaganda and trickery.

None of this exists in a vacuum either, I live in the 21st century, in a post-9/11 world (cry) where it's hard to trust those who struggle for power. I may as well vote for Jesus Christ for U.S. President at this point because it's hard to separate the any White House administration or the global media from old Looney Toons cartoons. (cry)

So I look backwards in time, past the 20th century and the first thing I find is the U.S. Civil War--a necessary and just action--where over 600,000 Americans were killed. (cry again)

1 John 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things [that are] in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

I'm left with the what my grandmother said--"Believe in Jesus"--so I no longer love the world--I proclaim the Kingdom of God and the Blood of the Lamb, follow Him, not me.

Matt 22:36-38 Master, which [is] the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment.

1 Peter 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.


Background #2 - Who's Who

Acts 11:26 ... And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

Christians should, as much as possible use, the New Testament to interpret the Old Testament (the Tanakh) because we know that the New Testament is the word of God. Every word of the New Testament is better than anything my fleshy brain can come up with.

Modern Jews use other texts to interpret the Tanakh, or interpret for themselves, in case of the groups like Karaites.

link -> Who is a Jew? - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If you quote the Bible to say that Christians are the real Jews then that's a semantic issue which completely misses the point of this post--I'm a Christian as my grandparents were Christians.


Background #3 - My Motive - "Sing, O Muse, of the rage..."

I'm concerned and angry with the following trends.

(1) Real Antisemitism - the worst

- tedious, quite often out-of-context, anti-Talmudic screeds here on Christian Chat and the internet which don't reflect the fruit of my local Jewish people at all that I can see

- real recent measurable rise in antisemitism in Europe, see "forgetting history" above -> Pogroms

- assertions about "Zionist" or "Jewish" media control

MY TESTIMONY:I've been to many sobriety-related meetings, 12-step and otherwise, in the Los Angeles area, the center of the entertainment industry, for the last ten years (since 2003), so I've heard various testimonies from many people "in the industry", many of them were Jewish I'm sure, and I can say for sure that giving any credit to the concept of "Zionist" or "Jewish" media control is psychotic

(that being said I don't own a TV set or go to the movie theater, I simply don't think there's anything in it for born-again Christians)

(2) "New Antisemitism"

- conflation of modern nation of Israel with my and your local Jews, these are not the same unless one actually lives in Israel, Israel is only a small minority of people in the world

- this conflation is dangerous from a social responsibility standpoint, because actions by the IDF have nothing to my local Jews and I'm concerned about blowback which blames anyone's local Jews for the actions of Israel

(3) Cultural and Religious Identity

- attempts to abscond with sacred Jewish rituals and laws by wannabe-Jews who were not raised Jewish and have no sort of rabbinical confirmation as to who they are--most can't even read Hebrew, I am embarrassed as a Christian (and for the Jewish people that I know) that they follow wannabe-Jew "teachers" who tell us to combine Judaism and Christianity in any manner other than the New Testament tells us to


Understand Your Local Jewish People: Tikkun olam - Love your neighbor

link -> Tikkun olam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Tikkun olam is a Hebrew phrase that means "repairing the world" (or "healing the world") which suggests humanity's shared responsibility to heal, repair and transform the world. In Judaism, the concept of tikkun olam originated in the early rabbinic period. The concept was given new meanings in the kabbalah of the medieval period and has come to possess further connotations in modern Judaism.

[OP: like anything other subject, you should read and learn all you like about medieval Judaism and kabbalah, but it's not for Christians to practice]

The role of ritual mitzvot
Jews believe that performing of ritual mitzvot (commandments, connections, or religious obligations) is a means of tikkun olam, helping to perfect the world, and that the performance of more mitzvot will hasten the coming of the Messiah and the Messianic Age.

Building a model society
Some Jews believe that performing mitzvot will create a model society among the Jewish people, which will in turn influence the rest of the world. This idea sometimes is attributed to Biblical verses that describe the Jews as "a kingdom of priests and a holy nation" (Exodus 19:5-6) and "a light of the nations" or "a light to the nations" (Isaiah 42:6 and Isaiah 49:6).

Verses from -> Jewish Bible (JPS 1917)

Shemot 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will hearken unto My voice indeed, and keep My covenant, then ye shall be Mine own treasure from among all peoples; for all the earth is Mine; 6 and ye shall be unto Me a kingdom of priests, and a holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.'

Yisheyah 42:6 I HaShem have called thee in righteousness, and have taken hold of thy hand, and kept thee, and set thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the nations;

Yisheyah 42:6 Yea, He saith: 'It is too light a thing that thou shouldest be My servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the offspring of Israel; I will also give thee for a light of the nations, that My salvation may be unto the end of the earth.'


Tikkun olam lunches nourish those in need
By Jared Sichel, Los Angeles, July 17, 2013
© Copyright 2013 Tribe Media Corp. All rights reserved.

link -> Tikkun olam lunches nourish those in need | Los Angeles | Jewish Journal


For 13-year-old Odelia Safadel, serving lunch to Pico-Robertson’s poor and homeless puts things in perspective.

“Sometimes, I think to myself, ‘Oh, there’s nothing to eat. I want a new phone, I want this.’ But then when I come here, I see that these people — they are actually in desperate need,” she said, standing next to a buffet table filled with meatballs, rice and other filling dishes for the dozens of hungry people who came to B’nai David-Judea Congregation’s most recent tikkun olam — repairing the world — lunch.

At this particular meal, on a Wednesday afternoon, about 60 people filtered into two separate rooms at the Pico Boulevard Orthodox synagogue — Jews, non-Jews, blacks, Russians, mothers with babies, and people just looking for a meal and some spiritual inspiration from B’nai David’s rabbi, Yosef Kanefsky.

Odelia, a seventh-grader at Yeshivat Yavneh in Hancock Park, was one of several girls who came to serve food to the lunch’s attendees.

The tikkun olam lunches, which are held seven times per year, were inspired by congregant David Nimmer. As Nimmer tells it, at a Sukkot lunch at least 10 years ago, a rabbinic intern at the synagogue was teaching attendees a text that covered the concept of a sukkat shalom, a welcoming sukkah.

“What do I, God, want of you [the Jewish people]?” Nimmer recalled learning. “To feed the hungry, visit the sick, clothe the poor.”

When he heard that, Nimmer knew that learning tzedakah was not enough. He had to give tzedakah.

“Let’s not just learn about it in this beautiful setting of Torah study,” he remembered saying. “Let’s implement it.”

And that’s precisely what Nimmer and Kanefsky did. The first version of the tikkun olam lunch was during Sukkot of that year. But it wasn’t a lunch; it was a breakfast. And unlike the recent lunch, 60 people didn’t come — only one did.

“The first lunch literally had one semi-homeless person,” Nimmer said. “And he wasn’t terribly homeless, either. He was a very high-functioning guy.”

But since that first meal, the tikkun olam lunch has grown rapidly, so rapidly that there are now two separate meals at each lunch, one for Russian speakers who populate the neighborhood and one for others. Every lunch, before and sometimes after the meal, Kanefsky hands out $15 gift cards for Ralphs grocery store to guests.

Hurrying between the upstairs lunch — for English speakers — and the downstairs lunch — for Russian speakers — Kanefsky described how B’nai David has created a home for those in need, even if it’s only for several hours per year.

“A sukkat shalom is a sukkah that everyone is welcome to come into, and everyone feels at home, and everyone feels part of the community.”

The Russian lunch, held in B’nai David’s large banquet hall, included a local resident stopping in to play guitar for the guests and an introduction by a representative of The Jewish Federation of Greater Los Angeles explaining how people at the lunch can use the organization’s resources. Everything was translated into Russian by a volunteer, Gary Reznik.

One 76-year-old Russian woman said that she has been coming to the tikkun olam lunches for seven years. She described them as something “close to the heart,” whether she sat next to friends or just tikkun olam acquaintances.

“The food is great here, the music is great here, and the holiness of this place ...” her voice trailed off.

Upstairs, about 40 people were sitting around multiple tables, eating, chatting and singing “Sweet Home Alabama” as a B’nai David congregant led the song on guitar. When that tune ended, some of the participants — the non-Jewish ones, it turned out — began an alternate version of the same song: “Sweet Home Israel.”

“Sweet home Israel, Lord I’m coming home to you,” sang many of the guests. The most passionate singers, in fact, seemed to be devout Christians who belong to local churches. For 46-year-old Shana Gudger, this was her first lunch at B’nai David. After finishing her meal, she said that she felt good coming to a synagogue for some food and feeling welcomed. Her church, like her, is struggling financially.

“Honestly, we need to have this in our congregation,” Gudger said. “It was just good to come to another place — a different denomination — and see that they still accept us.”

Over the past decade, Kanefsky has come in touch with hundreds of people who are homeless or at least in serious financial distress, and he has developed personal bonds with many of them. That, he said, makes it tough to see people who are able to stand on their own for a few months return to a tikkun olam lunch, again in need.

“Over the many years, I’ve seen people whose lives have gotten dramatically better,” Kanefsky said. “Then six months later or a year later, they are kind of back where they started.”

As tragic as this is, it does give Kanefsky a chance to build a sort of community.

“The civic and religious obligation that we have is to extend assistance and friendship to the poor people who are in our community,” Kanefsky said. “Those people include many who are Jews and includes people who are not Jews.”

Back downstairs at the Russian lunch, a homeless Jew in his 20s, Andrew, who would only give his first name, said a prayer in Hebrew. Later, he made his way upstairs and explained that this was his first lunch. He intends to come back.

“It means love and togetherness,” he said. “It was beautiful.
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
#2
Understand Your Local Jewish People: Tikkun olam - Love your neighbor

link -> Tikkun olam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Tikkun olam is a Hebrew phrase that means "repairing the world" (or "healing the world") which suggests
humanity's shared responsibility to heal, repair and transform the world. In Judaism, the concept of tikkun olam originated in the early rabbinic period. The concept was given new meanings in the kabbalah of the medieval period and has come to possess further connotations in modern Judaism.
At the above point it departs from NT Christianity.

Jesus did not come to make the world a better place.
He came to save us out of and from the world.

Yes, we are to love our neighbor and care for him,
but not for the sake of making the world a better place.

It is for the sake of love.

The world is headed for destruction (2Pe 3:10-12),
giving way to the new heavens and new earth of eternity,
and their renewal (Ro 8:20-21) as the home of righteousness (2Pe 3:13).

It is in that light that we are to live (2Pe 3:11, 14-15).

It's a very good thing, this Tikkun olam, a work of God.

But don't load it up with an unbiblical objective, for
that is simply setting oneself up for future disappointment
at its failure to transform the world, as one sees the world
growing only worse.

It will set some up for a crisis of faith, if their faith is that
they can transform the world through it and similar efforts.

Minister to the needy for the reasons Christ gave, in love to them.
Don't load it up with an impossible goal which runs counter to
God's plan for heaven and earth (2Pe 3:10-13).

That's my two-cents worth. . .and worth every penny.:)


 
Oct 12, 2013
481
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#3
At the above point it departs from NT Christianity.

Jesus did not come to make the world a better place.
He came to save us out of and from the world.

Yes, we are to love our neighbor and care for him,
but not for the sake of making the world a better place.

It is for the sake of love.

The world is headed for destruction (2Pe 3:10-12),
giving way to the new heavens and new earth of eternity,
and their renewal (Ro 8:20-21) as the home of righteousness (2Pe 3:13).

It is in that light that we are to live (2Pe 3:11, 14-15).

It's a very good thing, this Tikkun olam, a work of God.

But don't load it up with an unbiblical objective, for
that is simply setting oneself up for future disappointment
at its failure to transform the world, as one sees the world
growing only worse.

It will set some up for a crisis of faith, if their faith is that
they can transform the world through it and similar efforts.

Minister to the needy for the reasons Christ gave, in love to them.
Don't load it up with an impossible goal which runs counter to
God's plan for heaven and earth (2Pe 3:10-13).

That's my two-cents worth. . .and worth every penny.:)


No, It's not worth a penny.

God came to improve His people to improve the world for the next generations to come.

For your children and grandchildren.

God destroys to rebuild His way.

No 2cents about it.
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
#4
No, It's not worth a penny.

God came to improve
His people to improve the world for the next generations to come.
So, is that working for you?

For your children and grandchildren.

God destroys to rebuild His way.
So it's being destroyed then?

That's what I said.

No 2cents about it.
Would you care to address Jn 15:19, 17:14, 18:36; Jas 4:4; 1Jn 2:15; 2Pe 3:10-13?
 
Oct 12, 2013
481
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#5
So, is that working for you?


So it's being destroyed then?

That's what I said.


Would you care to address Jn 15:19, 17:14, 18:36; Jas 4:4; 1Jn 2:15; 2Pe 3:10-13?
Is it working for me?
He tears down and He changes the soul, renewing it His way. You bet it worked.

No I have no need to prove it in the verses and chapters. I know it, That is all I need, thank you.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
8,048
1,609
113
#8
well as a christian who is of Jewish blood i beg to speak a little,from mainly the books(scripture) we dwelt in egypt,and then were delivered only to later be carried away into captivity into Assyria and then to Babylon,and Persia then the Greek and then Rome and then we were scattered into the many nations and we dwelt there for all of the rest of the worlds history and then in the 40's a group of christian nations after a certain war saw to re-establish the same land and today we dwell therein.

for disobedience the worlds history reflects the dwelling places of our fore fathers,,,go down to the shore of the Mediterranean,look out on the horizon at the christian 6th naval fleet keeping the booger man at bay,,wander down to Gaza,and to the northern border's and look real close at the patriot missal defense systems the christian nation gave us. the gas mask we are provided they say "made in where?",,,,

if we obey no other king will be our master,no other king shall defend us,,,,,at some point we should look at what is taking place in our lives and disregard the things we imagine in our minds,,,,,,,
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#9
Understand Your Local Jewish People: Tikkun olam


I am a Christian--I seek Jesus Christ. I will not put up with forgetting history, racism, antisemitism, 20th- or 21-century "philosophy", genocide denial, commodity fetishism, advertising campaigns, television, know-nothingism, Bible versionism, false teachers, false prophets, false Jews, teachers who willfully continue to sin after they're born again, etc. because, really, I no longer care for anything other than God and what God said.

God told me to love my neighbors (that's the entire human race) so if no one's told you today that they love you, well I do!

That being said, Noam Chomsky isn't fooled by postmodern silliness and neither am I. Chomsky is a Jewish atheist anarchist (not Spirit) and I'm a born-again Christian, but that doesn't matter, we can both see right through linguistic devices and sophomoric propaganda and trickery.
okay.
Chomsky isn't really an atheist anarchist, though.:)
brilliant guy though.

None of this exists in a vacuum either, I live in the 21st century, in a post-9/11 world (cry) where it's hard to trust those who struggle for power. I may as well vote for Jesus Christ for U.S. President at this point because it's hard to separate the any White House administration or the global media from old Looney Toons cartoons. (cry)
okay.
do they operate in a vacuum?

So I look backwards in time, past the 20th century and the first thing I find is the U.S. Civil War--a necessary and just action--where over 600,000 Americans were killed. (cry again)
it was?
why was it necessary and just?

Background #2 - Who's Who

Acts 11:26 ... And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

Christians should, as much as possible use, the New Testament to interpret the Old Testament (the Tanakh) because we know that the New Testament is the word of God. Every word of the New Testament is better than anything my fleshy brain can come up with.
agree.

Modern Jews use other texts to interpret the Tanakh, or interpret for themselves, in case of the groups like Karaites.

link -> Who is a Jew? - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If you quote the Bible to say that Christians are the real Jews then that's a semantic issue which completely misses the point of this post--I'm a Christian as my grandparents were Christians.
mkay.

I'm concerned and angry with the following trends.

(1) Real Antisemitism - the worst

- tedious, quite often out-of-context, anti-Talmudic screeds here on Christian Chat and the internet which don't reflect the fruit of my local Jewish people at all that I can see
um...anti-Talmudic 'screeds' = Real Antisemitism (the worst)? really.

have you read the Talmud?

what does the Talmud have to do with your local jews - if they're not living by it - what's the problem?

the Talmud says what it says.

here's a copy: no need for anything to be taken out of context.

Halakhah.com Babylonian Talmud Online in English

- real recent measurable rise in antisemitism in Europe, see "forgetting history" above -> Pogroms
you're getting your stats from the Holocaust Museum?
why?

- assertions about "Zionist" or "Jewish" media control
uh....huh?

When Hollywood's Jewish moguls took their cues from Berlin - Books Israel News | Haaretz
http://www.jewishjournal.com/hollyw...tes_torah_but_loves_that_jews_run_hol lywood

MY TESTIMONY:I've been to many sobriety-related meetings, 12-step and otherwise, in the Los Angeles area, the center of the entertainment industry, for the last ten years (since 2003), so I've heard various testimonies from many people "in the industry", many of them were Jewish I'm sure, and I can say for sure that giving any credit to the concept of "Zionist" or "Jewish" media control is psychotic
psychotic?
you figured this out at AA meetings?

well...okay. i guess these folks are psychotic?

When Hollywood's Jewish moguls took their cues from Berlin - Books Israel News | Haaretz
Do Jews Dominate in American Media? And So What If We Do? | Mondoweiss

[video=youtube;D0kWAqZxJVE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0kWAqZxJVE[/video]

"Anti-semitic, its a trick we always use it"

she says "...the ties between Israel and the American Jewish establishment are very strong....they have power...money...media and other things....they are not ready to hear criticism"

so, is Former Israeli Minister Shulamit Aloni psychotic?:confused:

(2) "New Antisemitism"

- conflation of modern nation of Israel with my and your local Jews, these are not the same unless one actually lives in Israel, Israel is only a small minority of people in the world
Israel asks U.S. Jews, Israelis: Where do your loyalties lie?

PM orders ministries to stop distributing the survey, which asks questions about dual allegiance and the Jewish lobby in America.

By Barak Ravid | 14:40 27.10.13 | 62
Israel asks U.S. Jews, Israelis: Where do your loyalties lie? - Diplomacy and Defense Israel News | Haaretz

i reckon we won't know, from that poll...it got quashed.

but:

Young U.S. Jews feel closer to Israel, studies find

BY TOM TUGEND
August 13, 2013

She cited Los Angeles as “the best example in creating Israeli-American organizations for children and youth” in the United States, with the local Israeli American Council (IAC, formerly the Israeli Leadership Council) setting the pace, Sanua said.

IAC’s three main missions are to support Israel, strengthen Jewish identity among young Israeli-Americans, and build connections between the Israeli-American and Jewish-American communities.
Young U.S. Jews feel closer to Israel, studies find | Nation | Jewish Journal

i see nothing at all wrong with this. this is no surprise.
i'm a canadian...and if i travel, i look for other canadians.

am i looking for them exclusively? no.

but to :

1) deny this is true - to a large degree, and that's its actually something Israeli-American Jewish communities are working toward is just dishonest, praus. the State was created for Jews - are you suggesting Israel isn't trying to encourage Jews to connect with Israel? that's just not true. what game is this?

2) to say people who know it's true (Jewish leaders who say it) are psychotic antisemites is just weird....i don't see what being open about this stuff has to do with antisemitism. isn't this connection what was supposed to happen? if not, then why create The State?

what's the issue here?

you have ADL ranting about canards and stuff...but the reality is what it is - AND WHAT'S THE BIG DEAL ABOUT THAT?
for me it's only a big deal when somebody tells me i shouldn't say something that's actually true...that to even suggest such thing means you're psychotic?

nah.....:)

see, this sort of thing contributes to the problem....not you, i know you mean well.
but like....??

not all jewish people want to align themselves primarily or ultimately with Israel...and many disown it.
but suggesting there's not a connection and a real desire to MAKE a connection?
nonsense.

- this conflation is dangerous from a social responsibility standpoint, because actions by the IDF have nothing to my local Jews and I'm concerned about blowback which blames anyone's local Jews for the actions of Israel
well that is very true.
so your local jews who aren't actively involved in AIPAC lobbying against american interests....or calling for the US to NUKE Iran for Israel aren't involved. what's the problem?

if it were me, i'd make my position known..and tell guys like this to shut up:

Adelson: US should drop atomic bomb on Iran
By MAYA SHWAYDER, JERUSALEM POST CORRESPONDENT
10/24/2013 14:58
American-Jewish billionaire blasts Obama over negotiations with Tehran; says US should show Iran nuclear capabilities.

??

why should America drop an atomic bomb on Iran?
seriously.

(3) Cultural and Religious Identity

- attempts to abscond with sacred Jewish rituals and laws by wannabe-Jews who were not raised Jewish and have no sort of rabbinical confirmation as to who they are--most can't even read Hebrew, I am embarrassed as a Christian (and for the Jewish people that I know) that they follow wannabe-Jew "teachers" who tell us to combine Judaism and Christianity in any manner other than the New Testament tells us to
agree.

okay....:)
 
Dec 21, 2012
2,982
40
0
#11
okay.
Chomsky isn't really an atheist anarchist, though.:)
brilliant guy though.
Yay! Thank you Zone for reading and considering my essay! :)

All of the sections labeled "Background" are my own writing so I will do my best to defend those first. I need Bible study and prayer so I'll return to this in a few hours.

I hope I retain some credibility with you Zone. I'll say that 2 months ago, before the start of the "Support your Local Jew" thread that I had a lot more tolerance for the nation of Israel than I do now. I read some profound things from you and Elin on that and other threads, now I think: "Zone's right!!--one state solution." I hope that removes me from the category of "Zionist shill".

Ok, more later....
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
#12
Elin said:
Elin said:
At the above point it departs from NT Christianity.

Jesus did not come to make the world a better place.
He came to save us out of and from the world.

Yes, we are to love our neighbor and care for him,
but not for the sake of making the world a better place.

It is for the sake of love.

The world is headed for destruction (2Pe 3:10-12),
giving way to the new heavens and new earth of eternity,
and their renewal (Ro 8:20-21) as the home of righteousness (2Pe 3:13).


It is in that light that we are to live (2Pe 3:11, 14-15).

It's a very good thing, this Tikkun olam, a work of God.

But don't load it up with an unbiblical objective
, for
that is simply setting oneself up for future disappointment
at its failure to transform the world, as one sees the world
growing only worse.

It will set some up for a crisis of faith, if their faith is that
they can transform the world through it and similar efforts.

Minister to the needy for the reasons Christ gave, in love to them.
Don't load it up with an impossible goal which runs counter to
God's plan for heaven and earth (2Pe 3:10-13).

That's my two-cents worth. . .and worth every penny
.:)
No, It's not worth a penny.

God came
to improve His people to improve the world for the next generations to come.
So, is that working for you?
God destroys to rebuild His way.
So it's being destroyed then?

That's what I said.
Is it working for me?
He tears down and He changes the soul, renewing it His way.
You bet it worked.
There seems to be a disconnect.

How did you get from the world to the soul?

Would you care to address Jn 15:19, 17:14, 18:36; Jas 4:4; 1Jn 2:15; 2Pe 3:10-13?
No I have no need to prove it in the verses and chapters. I know it, That is all I need, thank you.
So God came to improve the world by destroying it?

So then we can't make the world a better place, and we should not hope that we can.
 
Last edited:
Oct 12, 2013
481
0
0
#13
There seems to be a disconnect.

How did you get from the world to the soul?

And how do you know that God came to improve the world by destroying and rebuilding?
Because that is the way to salvation. WE have to die of our old ways to be reborn. And because the bible says so.
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
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#14
Elin said:
There seems to be a disconnect.

How did you get from the world in my post to your soul?

And how do you know that God came to improve the world by destroying and rebuilding?
Because that is the way to salvation. WE have to die of our old ways to be reborn. And because the bible says so.
How is destroying planet Earth the way to salvation?
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
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#15
I'm posting this in the interest of edifying all about the cultural and religious nature of modern Judaism
I just ain't in the slighest interested in 'modern' Judaism! :p
 
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PilgrimProgress

Guest
#16
I am a Christian--I seek Jesus Christ.
Awesome. :cool:



Talking about the Hebrew-Holocaust/Christian-Inquisitions, you can't have the one without the other. Impossible. They both like brothers, but because everyone wants to think that thinking collectively (like a sheep) and relativistically (like a no absolutist robot) makes them individuals, everyone is confused. This is called identity crisis (Oh, I don't actually have friends that genuinely care for me? Oh, I'm not all-knowing - who am I? Oh, getting married and having children and making a life is that easy, Oh, I've been duped! - What do I do now.) Men get this in their 40s, women in their 50s. And you (anyone reading this) could probably pull up some statistics on this.

Super-Continental Leaders (Communist, Socialist, Capitalist, Fascist, Democrat, Republican) and Powerful People (Scientists, Businessmen, Doctors) destroy people's appreciation for their own culture (False Advertising, Learned Helplessness, Brainwashing, GMO-Food Poisoning, Toxic Water), because that's the easiest way to make DO (teach a lie - learn a lie; the love of money is the root of all evil; tell a lie long enough, people will believe - Stalin and Hitler). War and Money go together like cheese and pancakes. So do the blood trails of hundreds of millions of slaughtered peoples behind Elizabeth Bethany, Vlad the Impaler, Nero, Gilgamesh, Ghengis Khan, Mao, Pol Pot, Stalin, Hitler. Whether people genuinely love/idolaze such leaders is up to them. People fear such leaders. When such leaders sit on the thrones (that actually belong to God, so rather - when they try to usurp the throne of the Most High), their rule is ended, they die without honour and they spend eternity in hell (Nebudkudnezzar was the exception. He repented. But Sadaam Insane rebuilt Babylon in his honour. Nebudkudnezzar was kicking and screaming in his sarcaphagus).

During Ages of Prosperity people become increasingly more sinful, exclude God from the equation, and invite the devil in through the "back door".

What people fail to understand is that Christianity and the Hebrew People go together like crumpets and butter. Not the "religiousity" - but Biblical Prophesy. God has "extended" His promise (to us the Gentiles), He has not forgetten His People (Hebrews). He has in fact died for the WHOLE WORLD. And thus, the oweness is on every single human being to uphold the Cross of Christ. If anyone mocks Jesus (he, she, they) that person encurs the curse of doing such a thing.

No one can dispute that Jesus Christ was martyred by both the Romans and the Hebrews. If I throw a rock at a harlot, and my brother throws ten, am I more guilty than him, or is he? Christ taught that the MERE sin (mere in our minds) of the heart is still sin - worthy of eternal hell. If it is more rediculous to say that thoughts can incur hellfire, than it is to say that Gentiles were just as guilty as the Hebrew, you (anyone reading this) decide - as for me, I follow Christ.

And last of all, remember, that Roman Catholicism extended as far as Persia (Indians, Muslims) and Asia (China, Korea, Japan) and Africa (Libya, Egypt). It represented the whole world.

And Jesus said Himself that He goes to die for the sins of the world (that is past, that is present, and that is future). Our Father Abraham was saved by Faith (Paul the Apostle said so, himself).
 
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Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
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#18
What people fail to understand is that Christianity and the Hebrew People go together like crumpets and butter. Not the "religiousity" - but Biblical Prophesy.
God has "extended" His promise (to us the Gentiles),
His promise was to the Gentiles long before Christ Jesus arrived (Dt 32:43; Isa 11:10, 52:15).

It is not an "extension,"
God's purpose from the beginning has been to save people from all over the world.

He has not forgettens His People (Hebrews). He has in fact died for the WHOLE WORLD. . .Jesus said Himself that He goes to die for the sins of the world (that is past, that is present, and that is future).
Yes, he died for those of the whole world, not just Israel, who believe in him.

And thus, the oweness is on every single human being to uphold the Cross of Christ. If anyone mocks Jesus (he, she, they) that person encurs the curse of doing such a thing.

No one can dispute that Jesus Christ was martyred by both the Romans and the Hebrews.
If I throw a rock at a harlot, and my brother throws ten, am I more guilty than him, or is he?
Christ taught that the MERE sin (mere in our minds) of the heart is still sin - worthy of eternal hell.
If it is more rediculous to say that thoughts can incur hellfire, than it is to say
that Gentiles were just as guilty as the Hebrew, you (anyone reading this) decide
What is "ridiculous" to say is determined by the testimony of the word of God.

The NT word of God assigns the murder (not the martyrdom) of Christ Jesus to certain Jews,
assisted by certain wicked Romans (Ac 7:51-52, 2:23).

It is not for us to improve on the testimony of the NT word of God.
 
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PilgrimProgress

Guest
#19
The NT word of God assigns the murder (not the martyrdom) of Christ Jesus to certain Jews,
assisted by certain wicked Romans (Ac 7:51-52, 2:23).
You see, whether the Hebrews were more guilty than the Roman Catholics is for YOU to decide, but as for me - I follow Christ. All have sinned. Is one sin worse than another? Jesus says that the mere SINFUL THOUGHT is a hell-condemning thing. If you choose to believe in purgatory, or in no existence of hell - then that is your opinion. But it is also a wrong opinion. Christ began by saying "repent". And he went on to say that the leaders present were fake and snakes and stupid, and also - they were money obsessed and war mongers.

YOUR understanding of scripture prescribes the death of the Messiah to our ancestors instead of to the whole world, every single woman, and man also - present, past and future - because you have been taught to read the scripture with your mind.

You can only understand scripture with the Holy Spirit.

Had Jesus preached in any other nation, the same outcome would have prevailed against him.

The Antichrist probably will try to mess with the Jews again, but don't be fooled. He will mess with the Christians too. He will probably have worse things planned for Christians.
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
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#20
Elin said:
The NT word of God assigns the murder (not the martyrdom) of Christ Jesus to certain Jews, assisted by certain wicked Romans (Ac 7:51-52, 2:23).
You see, whether the Hebrews were more guilty than the Roman Catholics
is for YOU to decide
,
The NT does not assign the murder of Jesus to Roman Catholics.

YOUR understanding of scripture prescribes the death of the Messiah to our ancestors
Actually, it is the NT word of Go that assigns the murder of Jesus to certain Jews and Romans.

Had Jesus preached in any other nation, the same outcome would have prevailed against him.
God sent Jesus to die as a ransom (Mt 20:28),
and God presented him as a sacrifice (death) of propitiation (Ro 3:25) for those who believe in him.
(Ro 3:25)

And the NT word of God assigns the murder of Christ Jesus to certain wicked Jews and certain wicked Romans (Ac 7:51-52, 2:23).

The Antichrist. . .will probably have worse things planned for Christians.
No surprise. . .he may well have his foot on the neck of the Church (God's people) when Christ comes to deliver her.
 
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