S
StandStrong
Guest
sorry i think we are thinking of two different judgments. I was thinking of the final judgement spoken of in revelation when Jesus comes back for His church
When Jesus died, what kind of saints were resurrected ?
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sorry i think we are thinking of two different judgments. I was thinking of the final judgement spoken of in revelation when Jesus comes back for His church
If you are really a Jew
Romans 11
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear
unto this day.9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins
The Throne in the vision of John represent what we have achieved in life, and which God is coming to take a period of His time to see what we have achieved in our lives. The images that are in the vision has symbolic meanings, they are not necessarily meant the way how we perceive it to be, but it has spiritual meanings behind these images, like the dreams that the prophets has had in the past that's written in the scriptures.
2 Corinthians 4:18So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen, since what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal.
This verse is saying that we perceive the things of the spiritual nature not of physical nature.
Romans 6:19I am using an example from everyday life because of your human limitations. Just as you used to offer yourselves as slaves to impurity and to ever-increasing wickedness, so now offer yourselves as slaves to righteousness leading to holiness.
1 Corinthians 2:13This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words.
John 3:12I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?
If you are really a Jew
Romans 11
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear
9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins
I know this question and my answer is a bit off topic and Im not really sure of its intended purpose. People really should check on these things and quit believing everything they're told by those presumed to know better because they have a degree or wear a funny collar. Likewise I expect anything I say should be check on compared with scripture too.
#1: I don't know where it was written God gave a spirit of slumber to the Jews. Where is it written can you find it?
#2: OK, David did say; "let their table be made a snare, and a trap" etc. etc. But if one ever read the entire Psalm and kept in context they would find David was speaking to God concerning those who persecuted and pursued him. The account of persecution and who it was that persued him can found in 1st and 2nd Samuel. How the writer, in verse 11, turns it into something to do with salvation and Gentiles is beyond me. Where I come from we call that cherry picking. Im sure I could take a verse out of context too and make it sound as if space aliens are going to invade us.
#3: In verse 26 it appears another verse is perverted it for the writters own use. FOR IT IS WRITTEN Isaiah 59:20; And a redeemer shall come to Zion, and to those in Jacob who turn from transgression, says the Yehovah. Also it doesn't mention anything about a covenant where by some demi-god, human sacrifice or blood of animals or anything about taking away sins. FOR IT IS WRITTEN Isaiah 59:21; As for me, this is my covenant with them, says the Yehovah; My spirit that is upon you, and my words which I have put in your mouth, shall not depart from your mouth, nor from the mouth of your seed, nor from the mouth of your seed’s seed, says the Yehovah, from now on and forever. rather it God says the redeemer will come to those who turn from transgression. Can you figure out what words God is speaking about? Hint: it has to do with the words given to Moses.
I would like to think my eyes and ears are open.
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chubbena
Guest
Spirits or glorified bodies probably are not bound by place nor time. Probably like Moses and Elijah. Just my guess.
What Paul wrote is supported by other scriptures: Isaiah 6:10, Isaiah 29:10
Paul quoted Isaiah 59:20 from the LXX (or a pre-Masoretic Hebrew text).
As for verse 21, Paul is obviously not quoting the entire prophecy verbatim, but is employing poetic license and ad libbing, conflating the beginning of Isaish 59:21 with possibly Jeremiah 31:34 and/or Psalms 103:12.
And if you think that verse 21 refers to the law of Moses, then no, your eyes and ears aren't open.
Wait,what to prove?Did Moses and Eliah appeared with Jesus?Prophets and all righterious people of Old Testament resurrected,New Testament started from that day.I believe that u read Bible every day,so it is impossible not to see this.
The way I read it. Paul once again is cherry picking certain portions of the words of God to suite his beliefs. Because if one reads those verses you found in Isaiah chapters 6 and 29 in the historical context in which they were used they have absolutley nothing to do with what Paul is writing about that Jews are blind to this New Testement of his.
Whats your point here?
Well I agree he obviously DID NOT quote the entire prophecy and did appear to take poetic license and ad lib. Which leads me to believe these are the words of Paul, a man, and not God.
Well I do believe those are the words. If not, what then? Just don't give me the same old christian song and dance about how everyone is blind because Paul said so. What covenant and words was God referring too in verse 21?
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The_highwayman
Guest
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timberdoodle
Guest
What do mean which Torah? Torah can mean 'wisdom', 'instruction' and that word christians hate 'law'. The Torah given to Moses before all of Israel, that Torah.
The same Torah ... many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of Yehovah, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths; for Torah shall go forth from Zion, and the word of Yehovah from Jerusalem. Which seems to imply that if you are living when king messiah comes you will be living by the same instruction given to Israel too.
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LT
Guest
Why do you say that Christians hate the Law? I am a follower of Christ (Christian) and I love the instruction of the Torah.
As for being 'under the Law', I have been given freedom from the penalty of Law, through the Blood of Jesus.
I don't know about which faith do we now discuss here?Are we discuss about Christianity or some tales?
Sorry LT for offending you I will choose my words more carefully. I have in my experience gathered from previous conversations with christians the 'law' doesn't apply today to them because they have been nailed to the cross. But when I say the 'law' still pertains to all of us even today. I don't mean to imply we do them in order to obtain salvation as if we could do so by our works. Salvation is and always has been on the grounds of God great mercy and nothing else, Daniel expresses that in his heartfelt prayer so very well recorded in Chapter 9:3-19. When I read Torah, everytime God says why we should be obedient to his instruction he equate it with loving Him and living a long life. Those that have children will understand a child who listens to his father and obeys his instruction is a child who loves his father. A subject who loves his king will abide by the his kings rule of law or constitution if you will, when he desires to abide in the kings land.
The rebellious bunch hates their father and king and seeks only his own pleasure. But like the father who forgave the prodigal son so too will our Father in heaven forgive us. All throughout Torah it IS WRITTEN we can at anytime with a repentant heart turn from our ways and walk in His and ask for His forgiveness and He said He would forgive us. No blood was ever required. In fact according to Torah no blood could ever atone for willful transgression.
The rebellious bunch hates their father and king and seeks only his own pleasure. But like the father who forgave the prodigal son so too will our Father in heaven forgive us. All throughout Torah it IS WRITTEN we can at anytime with a repentant heart turn from our ways and walk in His and ask for His forgiveness and He said He would forgive us. No blood was ever required. In fact according to Torah no blood could ever atone for willful transgression.
We are not discussing faith we are discussing words and the whereabouts of people who left the grave and went on walk about. And the fact nobody throughout history except Matthew ever said such a thing happened.
I have no idea to which religion u belong,but i think that u read a Bible.And u know that all 4 Gospels speaking about the same thing,life and miracles of Jesus Christ,His death and resurrection.Holy Fathers of the Church gave us fully explanation and everything is very clear,or for us Orthodox is clear.Godman Jesus Christ resurrected the 3rd day,at Sunday and with Him rised on Heavens all righterious people who believed in His preaching at Had.I firmly believe that between them were not just righterious Jews,because God have love for all man kind,and everyone who believe in Him will have eternal life.
IC XC NI KA
i thought that no one goes to heaven that is what the bible says . the meek shall inherit the earth not heaven