I never said I was baptized as an infant. (I was two at the time and I don't remember it) HMM if I remember correctly I said the second time was over 30 years ago but if one were to look to the side I am 55. Seems I would have been an adult not a child at the time. Because Jesus said believe and be baptized and I wanted to do so. See I am one that can not point to a single day and say that I was saved on Dec 15th 1984 etc. His hand was always on my life to bring me to Him. I see Him working through the first to bring me to Him,a Godly mother who insisted that we go a Christian school. A Godly aunt who prayed for me. etc etc.
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hi SARAH, i wanted to address this post to you.
i find this interesting:
Matthew 19:14
Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these."
paidion: a young child
Original Word: παιδίον, ου, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: paidion
Phonetic Spelling: (pahee-dee'-on)
Short Definition: a little child, an infant
Definition: a little child, an infant, little one.
3813 paidíon – properly, a child under training; the diminutive form of 3816 /país ("child"). 3813 /paidíon ("a little child in training") implies a younger child (perhaps seven years old or younger). Some scholars apply 3816 (país) to a son or daughter up to 20 years old (the age of "complete adulthood" in Scripture).
...
the context would determine the presumed age of the child in any given reference.
this is the part i find interesting:
Some scholars apply 3816 (país) to a son or daughter up to 20 years old (the age of "complete adulthood" in Scripture).
do Believer's Baptism folks wait until 20 yrs of age?
if not, why not?
...
warning wiki alert > may not be appropriate for all audiences:
Believer's baptism (occasionally called credobaptism', from the Latin word credo) is the Christian practice of baptism as this is understood by many Protestant churches, particularly those that descend from the Anabaptist and English Baptist tradition. According to their understanding, a person is baptized on the basis of his or her profession of faith in Jesus Christ and as admission into a local community of faith.
The contrasting belief, held in other Christian churches, is infant baptism (pedobaptism or paedobaptism, from the Greek paido meaning “child”), in which infants or young children are baptized if one or both parents professes the faith.
Baptisms are performed in various ways: believer's baptism by immersion or pouring also called affusion and infant baptism by affusion or aspersion (sprinkling) or immersion. Believer's baptism is often erroneously referred to as adult baptism, even though children may be baptized so long as they are old enough to earnestly profess their faith.
...
Sarah, since little kids attend the service with their families in certain denoms
, it's possible to hear them chattering; praying; singing hymns; drawing pictures of Noah, and David; and Jesus...and professing their faith - some quite earnestly.
one particular 4 year i have in mind...(i've heard a smiling 2 year old say 'Jesus' on more than one occassion)
should that 4 year old child (defined as an infant, and "a little child in training" by paidíon) be baptized?
wouldn't that be infant baptism?
....
i wonder why that earnestly professing 4 year old [paidíon] child in training would not be baptized, particularly since Jesus Christ The Lord said:
Matthew 19:14
Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these."
just wondered what your thoughts on that would be, SARAH.
love you too sis.
Zone H.R.H.
i find this interesting:
Matthew 19:14
Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these."
paidion: a young child
Original Word: παιδίον, ου, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: paidion
Phonetic Spelling: (pahee-dee'-on)
Short Definition: a little child, an infant
Definition: a little child, an infant, little one.
3813 paidíon – properly, a child under training; the diminutive form of 3816 /país ("child"). 3813 /paidíon ("a little child in training") implies a younger child (perhaps seven years old or younger). Some scholars apply 3816 (país) to a son or daughter up to 20 years old (the age of "complete adulthood" in Scripture).
...
the context would determine the presumed age of the child in any given reference.
this is the part i find interesting:
Some scholars apply 3816 (país) to a son or daughter up to 20 years old (the age of "complete adulthood" in Scripture).
do Believer's Baptism folks wait until 20 yrs of age?
if not, why not?
...
warning wiki alert > may not be appropriate for all audiences:
Believer's baptism (occasionally called credobaptism', from the Latin word credo) is the Christian practice of baptism as this is understood by many Protestant churches, particularly those that descend from the Anabaptist and English Baptist tradition. According to their understanding, a person is baptized on the basis of his or her profession of faith in Jesus Christ and as admission into a local community of faith.
The contrasting belief, held in other Christian churches, is infant baptism (pedobaptism or paedobaptism, from the Greek paido meaning “child”), in which infants or young children are baptized if one or both parents professes the faith.
Baptisms are performed in various ways: believer's baptism by immersion or pouring also called affusion and infant baptism by affusion or aspersion (sprinkling) or immersion. Believer's baptism is often erroneously referred to as adult baptism, even though children may be baptized so long as they are old enough to earnestly profess their faith.
...
Sarah, since little kids attend the service with their families in certain denoms
, it's possible to hear them chattering; praying; singing hymns; drawing pictures of Noah, and David; and Jesus...and professing their faith - some quite earnestly.one particular 4 year i have in mind
...(i've heard a smiling 2 year old say 'Jesus' on more than one occassion)should that 4 year old child (defined as an infant, and "a little child in training" by paidíon) be baptized?
wouldn't that be infant baptism?
....
i wonder why that earnestly professing 4 year old [paidíon] child in training would not be baptized, particularly since Jesus Christ The Lord said:
Matthew 19:14
Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these."
just wondered what your thoughts on that would be, SARAH.
love you too sis.
Zone H.R.H.
Last edited:
hi SARAH, i wanted to address this post to you.
i find this interesting:
Matthew 19:14
Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these."
paidion: a young child
Original Word: παιδίον, ου, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: paidion
Phonetic Spelling: (pahee-dee'-on)
Short Definition: a little child, an infant
Definition: a little child, an infant, little one.
3813 paidíon – properly, a child under training; the diminutive form of 3816 /país ("child"). 3813 /paidíon ("a little child in training") implies a younger child (perhaps seven years old or younger). Some scholars apply 3816 (país) to a son or daughter up to 20 years old (the age of "complete adulthood" in Scripture).
...
the context would determine the presumed age of the child in any given reference.
this is the part i find interesting:
Some scholars apply 3816 (país) to a son or daughter up to 20 years old (the age of "complete adulthood" in Scripture).
do Believer's Baptism folks wait until 20 yrs of age?
if not, why not?
...
warning wiki alert > may not be appropriate for all audiences:
Believer's baptism (occasionally called credobaptism', from the Latin word credo) is the Christian practice of baptism as this is understood by many Protestant churches, particularly those that descend from the Anabaptist and English Baptist tradition. According to their understanding, a person is baptized on the basis of his or her profession of faith in Jesus Christ and as admission into a local community of faith.
The contrasting belief, held in other Christian churches, is infant baptism (pedobaptism or paedobaptism, from the Greek paido meaning “child”), in which infants or young children are baptized if one or both parents professes the faith.
Baptisms are performed in various ways: believer's baptism by immersion or pouring also called affusion and infant baptism by affusion or aspersion (sprinkling) or immersion. Believer's baptism is often erroneously referred to as adult baptism, even though children may be baptized so long as they are old enough to earnestly profess their faith.
...
Sarah, since little kids attend the service with their families in certain denoms, it's possible to hear them chattering; praying; singing hymns; drawing pictures of Noah, and David; and Jesus...and professing their faith - some quite earnestly.
one particular 4 year i have in mind...(i've heard a smiling 2 year old say 'Jesus' on more than one occassion)
should that 4 year old child (defined as an infant, and "a little child in training" by paidíon) be baptized?
wouldn't that be infant baptism?
....
i wonder why that earnestly professing 4 year old [paidíon] child in training would not be baptized, particularly since Jesus Christ The Lord said:
Matthew 19:14
Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these."
just wondered what your thoughts on that would be, SARAH.
love you too sis.
Zone H.R.H.
i find this interesting:
Matthew 19:14
Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these."
paidion: a young child
Original Word: παιδίον, ου, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: paidion
Phonetic Spelling: (pahee-dee'-on)
Short Definition: a little child, an infant
Definition: a little child, an infant, little one.
3813 paidíon – properly, a child under training; the diminutive form of 3816 /país ("child"). 3813 /paidíon ("a little child in training") implies a younger child (perhaps seven years old or younger). Some scholars apply 3816 (país) to a son or daughter up to 20 years old (the age of "complete adulthood" in Scripture).
...
the context would determine the presumed age of the child in any given reference.
this is the part i find interesting:
Some scholars apply 3816 (país) to a son or daughter up to 20 years old (the age of "complete adulthood" in Scripture).
do Believer's Baptism folks wait until 20 yrs of age?
if not, why not?
...
warning wiki alert > may not be appropriate for all audiences:
Believer's baptism (occasionally called credobaptism', from the Latin word credo) is the Christian practice of baptism as this is understood by many Protestant churches, particularly those that descend from the Anabaptist and English Baptist tradition. According to their understanding, a person is baptized on the basis of his or her profession of faith in Jesus Christ and as admission into a local community of faith.
The contrasting belief, held in other Christian churches, is infant baptism (pedobaptism or paedobaptism, from the Greek paido meaning “child”), in which infants or young children are baptized if one or both parents professes the faith.
Baptisms are performed in various ways: believer's baptism by immersion or pouring also called affusion and infant baptism by affusion or aspersion (sprinkling) or immersion. Believer's baptism is often erroneously referred to as adult baptism, even though children may be baptized so long as they are old enough to earnestly profess their faith.
...
Sarah, since little kids attend the service with their families in certain denoms
, it's possible to hear them chattering; praying; singing hymns; drawing pictures of Noah, and David; and Jesus...and professing their faith - some quite earnestly.one particular 4 year i have in mind
...(i've heard a smiling 2 year old say 'Jesus' on more than one occassion)should that 4 year old child (defined as an infant, and "a little child in training" by paidíon) be baptized?
wouldn't that be infant baptism?
....
i wonder why that earnestly professing 4 year old [paidíon] child in training would not be baptized, particularly since Jesus Christ The Lord said:
Matthew 19:14
Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these."
just wondered what your thoughts on that would be, SARAH.
love you too sis.
Zone H.R.H.
I don't see the issue with that,because God also at the same time gave very clear warnings to them that even though they had the sign of the promise did not in and of itself mean they were following Him,they could be cut off,put to death etc. even though there were circumcisied. The parents were to teach and train the child to love and obey Him. Don't know what is hard to understand about that. And remember it was the Lord Himself that told them to do it on the 8th day.
B
The little children that were being brought to Jesus is a beautiful picture of being blessed by the Lord in his presence, where there is fulness of joy. We should not forbid this in any way but rather encourage and practice it on a regular basis. What it means for today's local church is that we bring the children into the assembly meetings to hear the word of God being preached, the gathering place where the body of Christ worships and brings their praises to God, where we sing and make a joyful noise unto the Lord and to be in the midst of God's people. This is not substituted by any water baptism and we certainly do not teach our children that water baptism is the means by which we are regenerated and saved by grace. That would be given them wrong instructions and nourishing them in bad admonitions and teaching them false doctrine, giving them a false hope in something that was not meant for that.
The Lutherans and others who teach and practice baptismal regeneration are giving a false hope to parents and to their children and getting them to trust in an ordinance instead of the cross of Christ. That is a terrible doctrine that should not exist in the church. Water baptism has no power to regenerate the sinner and is only for those who have be convicted of the gospel and have trusted Christ and his blood for salvation. This act a baptismal regeneration should be repented of by those who adhere and practice it and believers in the local assembly where it is practiced should lovingly challenge it in the grace of God or leave that local assembly in the will of God as a protest against it. To obey God and to do that takes sound doctrine and sound faith through the conviction and leading of the Holy Spirit.
The Lutherans and others who teach and practice baptismal regeneration are giving a false hope to parents and to their children and getting them to trust in an ordinance instead of the cross of Christ. That is a terrible doctrine that should not exist in the church. Water baptism has no power to regenerate the sinner and is only for those who have be convicted of the gospel and have trusted Christ and his blood for salvation. This act a baptismal regeneration should be repented of by those who adhere and practice it and believers in the local assembly where it is practiced should lovingly challenge it in the grace of God or leave that local assembly in the will of God as a protest against it. To obey God and to do that takes sound doctrine and sound faith through the conviction and leading of the Holy Spirit.
UMMM So what do you all do with passages like this?
Romans 6
What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his. 6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with,[a] that we should no longer be slaves to sin— 7 because anyone who has died has been set free from sin.
8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him.9 For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. 10 The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.
Paul points to something MORE then just an outward sign of an inward change. How do you reconcile those type of passages?
But you can't leave out that James says faith WITHOUT works is DEAD. So how does that work? You can't leave out Jesus says to believe AND OBEY. You can't leave out that all who went before believed and OBEYED also. And again the Bible does say that Abraham was justified by faith but you can't leave out the other passages that say obey also so again how do you reconcile them one to another?
Acts 1:5
[h=3]Acts 1:5[/h]New International Version (NIV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For John baptized with[SUP][a][/SUP] water, but in a few days you will be baptized with[SUP][b][/SUP] the Holy Spirit.”
Matthew 3:11
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Mark 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
Luke 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:
John 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
What was to happen after John, Baptism of who? Was or is it water and again it is obvious, read in context please
Is it clear John's Baptism was water and Christ's is the Holy Ghost?
Acts 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
Acts 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
They already received the Holy Ghost, and had not yet been water Baptized, hmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!! what is up with that?
I have not refused to be water Baptized, refused it as to be a member of any man made Church. Not a a good conscience towards God, as a Thank you. then late Peter remembered
Acts 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost
Water and Holy Ghost Baptism are separated/ when there is only one Baptism today Eph. 5. Your choice water or Holy Ghost born again Baptism.
[h=3]Acts 1:5[/h]New International Version (NIV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For John baptized with[SUP][a][/SUP] water, but in a few days you will be baptized with[SUP][b][/SUP] the Holy Spirit.”
Matthew 3:11
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Mark 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
Luke 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:
John 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
What was to happen after John, Baptism of who? Was or is it water and again it is obvious, read in context please
Is it clear John's Baptism was water and Christ's is the Holy Ghost?
Acts 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
Acts 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
They already received the Holy Ghost, and had not yet been water Baptized, hmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!! what is up with that?
I have not refused to be water Baptized, refused it as to be a member of any man made Church. Not a a good conscience towards God, as a Thank you. then late Peter remembered
Acts 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost
Water and Holy Ghost Baptism are separated/ when there is only one Baptism today Eph. 5. Your choice water or Holy Ghost born again Baptism.
only one true Baptism, and we all haqve the choice as to which saves, Holy Ghost Baptism or water? Hmm!!!!!!!!!!!!
Result
Result
- Ephesians 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Ephesians 4:4-6 (in Context) Ephesians 4 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
Come on Highwayman from you what you are saying do you even get the concept in the Bible that faith and love are NOT passive. Both are ACTIVE. The Bible is painfully clear on that. How much clearer did Jesus have to be when He said IF YOU LOVE ME YOU WILL OBEY AND KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS? The evidence that one has faith is in obeying. You CAN'T separate the two.
well diggsy, if God is not working in baptism; and if baptism isn't even about entering the New Covenant (baptized into His death, raised in His Resurrection...and baptized into One Body)...then why does it matter if infants or adults are even baptized at all?
spurgeon said God regenerates elect infants (w/o baptism). did calvin say the same (?) < i don't know.
spurgeon said God regenerates elect infants (w/o baptism). did calvin say the same (?) < i don't know.
substituted?
see, only someone struggling with what the passages clearly say would have to slip that word in there - as if ANYONE suggested any such thing.
why the dishonesty? just deal out in the open with what has been said.
do not add junk like substituted by when no one has said any such thing.
and:
what do you mean by "What it means for today's local church"? is today's local church in a different Dispensation than the 1st century church?
so you recant your earlier assertion that Israel was never promised the NT blessings/promise/Great Commission - baptism was what you said - because "water baptism involves resurrection" - BradC.?
are you separating the Great Commission instructions from grace?
someone should have rebuked Paul, then...looks like he gave everybody "wrong instructions and nourishing them in bad admonitions and teaching them false doctrine, giving them a false hope" (which you could actually believe, since you teach some other Paul):
Romans 6:3
Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
so, in keeping with your theology, i hope you never remind your congregants that:
Galatians 3:27
for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
yes....wouldn't want to bring up what Paul said repeatedly.
1 Peter 3
20who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water. 21Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you-- not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience-- through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22who is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven, after angels and authorities and powers had been subjected to Him.
i believe what Peter said. don't you?
different dispensation though i guess.
see, again with the twisting.
GOD WORKING...through the means He ordained....ya see?
1 Peter 3
20who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water. 21Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you-- not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience-- through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22who is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven, after angels and authorities and powers had been subjected to Him.
Peter already told us (thanks anyways) water does not save.
and no one has to believe in regeneration to believe that Peter said baptism is an appeal TO GOD (not a party at your church)...for a clean conscience.... - through....(now read this carefully):
the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven, after angels and authorities and powers had been subjected to Him.
so, if you have the nerve to sever the resurrection of Jesus Christ; an appeal to God for a good conscience; being baptized into Christ Jesus being baptized into his death; and the Great Commission...well, you are a brave man.
so are going to publically recant your earlier assertion that - "water baptism involves resurrection" - BradC.?
k....thanks for sorting out what you really believe.
you can dispense with the romantic flowery language of the opening portion.
please just deal with what Peter and Paul said (the real ones).
i don't really care if you agree with non-anabaptists.
this is just a request to get your real beliefs established. if that's possible.
maybe it would help if you wrote out how this Mystery of the Church Dispensation is off to the side of anything that came before or after Paul's prison epistles dispensation - today's local gap church thing.
see, only someone struggling with what the passages clearly say would have to slip that word in there - as if ANYONE suggested any such thing.
why the dishonesty? just deal out in the open with what has been said.
do not add junk like substituted by when no one has said any such thing.
and:
what do you mean by "What it means for today's local church"? is today's local church in a different Dispensation than the 1st century church?
so you recant your earlier assertion that Israel was never promised the NT blessings/promise/Great Commission - baptism was what you said - because "water baptism involves resurrection" - BradC.?
are you separating the Great Commission instructions from grace?
someone should have rebuked Paul, then...looks like he gave everybody "wrong instructions and nourishing them in bad admonitions and teaching them false doctrine, giving them a false hope" (which you could actually believe, since you teach some other Paul):
Romans 6:3
Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
so, in keeping with your theology, i hope you never remind your congregants that:
Galatians 3:27
for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
yes....wouldn't want to bring up what Paul said repeatedly.
1 Peter 3
20who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water. 21Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you-- not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience-- through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22who is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven, after angels and authorities and powers had been subjected to Him.
i believe what Peter said. don't you?
different dispensation though i guess.
see, again with the twisting.
GOD WORKING...through the means He ordained....ya see?
1 Peter 3
20who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water. 21Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you-- not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience-- through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22who is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven, after angels and authorities and powers had been subjected to Him.
Peter already told us (thanks anyways) water does not save.
and no one has to believe in regeneration to believe that Peter said baptism is an appeal TO GOD (not a party at your church)...for a clean conscience....
- through....(now read this carefully):the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven, after angels and authorities and powers had been subjected to Him.
so, if you have the nerve to sever the resurrection of Jesus Christ; an appeal to God for a good conscience; being baptized into Christ Jesus being baptized into his death; and the Great Commission...well, you are a brave man.
so are going to publically recant your earlier assertion that - "water baptism involves resurrection" - BradC.?
k....thanks for sorting out what you really believe.
you can dispense with the romantic flowery language of the opening portion.
please just deal with what Peter and Paul said (the real ones).
i don't really care if you agree with non-anabaptists.
this is just a request to get your real beliefs established. if that's possible.
maybe it would help if you wrote out how this Mystery of the Church Dispensation is off to the side of anything that came before or after Paul's prison epistles dispensation - today's local gap church thing.
Last edited:
well diggsy, if God is not working in baptism; and if baptism isn't even about entering the New Covenant (baptized into His death, raised in His Resurrection...and baptized into One Body)...then why does it matter if infants or adults are even baptized at all?
spurgeon said God regenerates elect infants (w/o baptism). did calvin say the same (?) < i don't know.
spurgeon said God regenerates elect infants (w/o baptism). did calvin say the same (?) < i don't know.
Titus 3
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
So what does Paul mean by the WASHING OF REGENERATION? Paul point blank says washing of regeneration. So if it is not in baptism then what is it?
well, there appear to be several views on that.
apparently The Lord has the Power and the Will to save through - the preaching of the Gospel!
the Trinity involved in that, i guess we all agree.
a miracle, Amen...
He has the Power and Will to ressurect a dead sinner to everlasting life through - the preaching of the Gospel.
Paul said so...he said he was NOT ashamed of the Gospel.
so what did Jesus say?
Mark 16
15And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16"He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.
after receiving the Power from On High, Peter seemed to recall what the Helper had brought to their minds about what he had talked to them about, just as Jesus said He would:
Acts 2
"Brethren, what shall we do?" 38 Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 "For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself."
Acts 3
Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord
anapsuchó: to refresh
Original Word: ἀναψύχω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: anapsuchó
Phonetic Spelling: (an-aps-oo'-kho)
Short Definition: I refresh, revive, comfort
Definition: I refresh, revive, comfort.
what's baptism doing in this passage about refreshing/revival for Israel?
Peter said in 2: Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
then in 3: Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord
did he drop baptism by chapter 3?
oh look: it's in Titus too.
Titus 3
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Acts 2
"Brethren, what shall we do?" 38 Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 "For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself."
and for "all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself"
dunno....the subject is hotly debated.
it seems.
why, i don't know...since whether the belief is
1) amniotic fluid (born of water and the Spirit)
2) the water is the word preached
3) Holy Ghost Baptism
.....ppl STILL baptize in H20, and i wonder why?
fire insurance?
apparently The Lord has the Power and the Will to save through - the preaching of the Gospel!
the Trinity involved in that, i guess we all agree.
a miracle, Amen...
He has the Power and Will to ressurect a dead sinner to everlasting life through - the preaching of the Gospel.
Paul said so...he said he was NOT ashamed of the Gospel.
so what did Jesus say?
Mark 16
15And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16"He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.
after receiving the Power from On High, Peter seemed to recall what the Helper had brought to their minds about what he had talked to them about, just as Jesus said He would:
Acts 2
"Brethren, what shall we do?" 38 Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 "For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself."
Acts 3
Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord
anapsuchó: to refresh
Original Word: ἀναψύχω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: anapsuchó
Phonetic Spelling: (an-aps-oo'-kho)
Short Definition: I refresh, revive, comfort
Definition: I refresh, revive, comfort.
what's baptism doing in this passage about refreshing/revival for Israel?
Peter said in 2: Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
then in 3: Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord
did he drop baptism by chapter 3?
oh look: it's in Titus too.
Titus 3
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Acts 2
"Brethren, what shall we do?" 38 Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 "For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself."
and for "all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself"
dunno....the subject is hotly debated.
it seems.
why, i don't know...since whether the belief is
1) amniotic fluid (born of water and the Spirit)
2) the water is the word preached
3) Holy Ghost Baptism
.....ppl STILL baptize in H20, and i wonder why?
fire insurance?
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Seems to me that Peter,Paul and Jesus all point to God doing something in Baptism. God works through baptism. Why is that is so hard to accept just as they say? But then they could be wrong,I mean after all it's nothing more then an outward sign of an inward change,right? It's just a little ceremony,right? Must have missed that in the Bible. Still trying to find those verses.
check this out:
FUNDAMENTAL CHRISTIAN THEOLOGY Vol. II.
A SYSTEMATIC THEOLOGY
By A. M. Hills.
CHAPTER XXI
BAPTISM
FUNDAMENTAL CHRISTIAN THEOLOGY - Post-Millennial Advent Theory. By A. M. Hills < click
fascinating
i'm only 1/2 way through.
FUNDAMENTAL CHRISTIAN THEOLOGY Vol. II.
A SYSTEMATIC THEOLOGY
By A. M. Hills.
CHAPTER XXI
BAPTISM
FUNDAMENTAL CHRISTIAN THEOLOGY - Post-Millennial Advent Theory. By A. M. Hills < click
fascinating
i'm only 1/2 way through.