Strange I wasn't taught that it was Baptism that saves us in and of itself. I was taught that we needed to believe in Him to be saved. I was taught that it was in Christ crucified. I was taught that Jesus is the way the truth and the life and no man comes to Father comes BUT by Him. I was taught He is the bread of the life,the good shepherd,the resurrection and the life,the straight and narrow gate.
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B
First, you originally asked this of another poster who made the statement.
I don't disagree with StandStrong because his heart is in the right place unlike some others who live in error and are too proud to confess it. Let's clarify that we are speaking of water baptism (immersion), Correct? The one baptism that Zone keeps referring to is the one whereby the believer is immersed completely in water, it's that one and the only one and it only happens once in the believers life at the time of their salvation or shortly thereafter. The one who has professed Christ by faith has one baptism which begins with the Holy Spirit coming to indwell the believer and leads to an outward act of obedience to the mandate we have of the Lord to be baptized by water. The Eunuch was baptized immediately when he believed (Acts 8:27-39). Twelve of the disciples of John were baptized in the name of Christ and received the Holy Spirit (Acts 19:1-7). In (Acts 16:30-34) the story of the house of keeper of the prison (dungeon) goes like this.
30 And he brought them out [of the dungeon] and said, Men, what is it necessary for me to do that I may be saved?31 And they answered, Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ [[d]give yourself up to Him,[e] take yourself out of your own keeping and entrust yourself into His keeping] and you will be saved, [and this applies both to] you and your household as well.
32 And they declared the Word of the Lord [the doctrine concerning theattainment through Christ of eternal salvation in the kingdom of God] to him and to all who were in his house.
33 And he took them the same hour of the night and bathed [them because of their bloody wounds], and he was baptized immediately and all [the members of] his [household].
34 Then he took them up into his house and set food before them; and he leaped much for joy and exulted with all his family that he believed in God [accepting and joyously welcoming what He had made known through Christ].
Saul in (Acts 9:16-18) was baptized immediately after Ananias laid hands on him, recovering his sight and filling him with the Holy Spirit.
In (Acts 10:29-48) we have an account of those who were gathered of the Gentiles in the house of Cornelius and when Peter had preached to them the Holy Spirit fell upon them as they were exhorted to believe in verse 43. Here is what verse 47,48 report.
47 Can anyone forbid or refuse water for baptizing these people, seeing that they have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?
48 And he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ (the Messiah). Then they begged him to stay on there for some days.
Sarah777, do you see anything else in these passages that would indicate that those who were baptized were baptized by water and it was an outward act of obedience that was not to be forbid (hindered, denied or refused) but identified them with the salvation and Holy Spirit they received through Christ being preached to them? If their baptism was not an outward act of obedience to an inward transformation through salvation and a gift of the Holy Spirit, then what would it be and why so important that in most cases it took place immediately and was a testimony to the Jews that the Holy Spirit had also come to the Gentiles (verse 45 & 11:1)? Water baptism was being practiced at conversion and at the receptivity of the Spirit. Infant baptism is not included but children who believed were being baptized with their parents. There is not NT picture of water baptism given in scripture other than immersion, including our Lord Jesus Christ. His baptism, that fulfilled righteousness, led to the Holy Spirit falling upon him for the ministry he would be given by the Father as the Son of man and our baptism also fulfills righteousness leading us to be a follower of Christ as a new creature through the new birth as a result of believing in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ.
I don't disagree with StandStrong because his heart is in the right place unlike some others who live in error and are too proud to confess it. Let's clarify that we are speaking of water baptism (immersion), Correct? The one baptism that Zone keeps referring to is the one whereby the believer is immersed completely in water, it's that one and the only one and it only happens once in the believers life at the time of their salvation or shortly thereafter. The one who has professed Christ by faith has one baptism which begins with the Holy Spirit coming to indwell the believer and leads to an outward act of obedience to the mandate we have of the Lord to be baptized by water. The Eunuch was baptized immediately when he believed (Acts 8:27-39). Twelve of the disciples of John were baptized in the name of Christ and received the Holy Spirit (Acts 19:1-7). In (Acts 16:30-34) the story of the house of keeper of the prison (dungeon) goes like this.
30 And he brought them out [of the dungeon] and said, Men, what is it necessary for me to do that I may be saved?31 And they answered, Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ [[d]give yourself up to Him,[e] take yourself out of your own keeping and entrust yourself into His keeping] and you will be saved, [and this applies both to] you and your household as well.
32 And they declared the Word of the Lord [the doctrine concerning theattainment through Christ of eternal salvation in the kingdom of God] to him and to all who were in his house.
33 And he took them the same hour of the night and bathed [them because of their bloody wounds], and he was baptized immediately and all [the members of] his [household].
34 Then he took them up into his house and set food before them; and he leaped much for joy and exulted with all his family that he believed in God [accepting and joyously welcoming what He had made known through Christ].
Saul in (Acts 9:16-18) was baptized immediately after Ananias laid hands on him, recovering his sight and filling him with the Holy Spirit.
In (Acts 10:29-48) we have an account of those who were gathered of the Gentiles in the house of Cornelius and when Peter had preached to them the Holy Spirit fell upon them as they were exhorted to believe in verse 43. Here is what verse 47,48 report.
47 Can anyone forbid or refuse water for baptizing these people, seeing that they have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?
48 And he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ (the Messiah). Then they begged him to stay on there for some days.
Sarah777, do you see anything else in these passages that would indicate that those who were baptized were baptized by water and it was an outward act of obedience that was not to be forbid (hindered, denied or refused) but identified them with the salvation and Holy Spirit they received through Christ being preached to them? If their baptism was not an outward act of obedience to an inward transformation through salvation and a gift of the Holy Spirit, then what would it be and why so important that in most cases it took place immediately and was a testimony to the Jews that the Holy Spirit had also come to the Gentiles (verse 45 & 11:1)? Water baptism was being practiced at conversion and at the receptivity of the Spirit. Infant baptism is not included but children who believed were being baptized with their parents. There is not NT picture of water baptism given in scripture other than immersion, including our Lord Jesus Christ. His baptism, that fulfilled righteousness, led to the Holy Spirit falling upon him for the ministry he would be given by the Father as the Son of man and our baptism also fulfills righteousness leading us to be a follower of Christ as a new creature through the new birth as a result of believing in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ.
B
With this being true of your own testimony, you and Zone should readily denounce any teaching or practiced doctrine of the Lutheran church that adds to or takes away from the gospel of Jesus Christ and him crucified, and that would include the doctrine of baptismal regeneration upon infants, children or adults which has nothing to do with the finished work of Christ and believing upon His name.
You continue to leave out all the rest of the passages about baptism. I did NOT say that it wasn't part of it,again it is NOT the complete picture. You can NOT leave the rest of the passages on baptism as they all fit together. And again where does the Bible say it is ONLY an outward sign of an inward change? You have NOT shown that. And again where was there a major time gap between believing and being baptized or where they seen as being combined into one whole?
a double-minded (dispensational) man is unstable in all his ways:
Another thing, if I may, this water baptism by immersion that we have as NT believers was never given to Israel or its commonwealth because this baptism involves resurrection, out with the old and in with the new, a putting off of the old man and a putting on with the one new man, and that baptism is for the church who are in Christ through the new birth. - BradC"
well, now you have 4 positions.
1) baptism isnt even an afterthought and has nothing to do with obedience or salvation or even the church
2) water baptism involves resurrection and is a NT commandment.
3) baptism in water is for the church but even though Israel did it, it means nothing for them (youre not sure why jews should be baptized), since they are not included in the promise to be an habitation for The Spirit (the church)
4) water baptism is a declaration by the one being baptized that they acknowledge and understand the new birth through the death of the cross to their old man and the deeds of that old man. It is an act of obedience
and another position, i assume, since you agree with Spurgeon, that God indeed mysteriously regenerates elect infants (no baptism needed) so they can go to heaven
is this helping your hyper-dispensationalist case at all
1) baptism isnt even an afterthought and has nothing to do with obedience or salvation or even the church
2) water baptism involves resurrection and is a NT commandment.
3) baptism in water is for the church but even though Israel did it, it means nothing for them (youre not sure why jews should be baptized), since they are not included in the promise to be an habitation for The Spirit (the church)
4) water baptism is a declaration by the one being baptized that they acknowledge and understand the new birth through the death of the cross to their old man and the deeds of that old man. It is an act of obedience
and another position, i assume, since you agree with Spurgeon, that God indeed mysteriously regenerates elect infants (no baptism needed) so they can go to heaven
is this helping your hyper-dispensationalist case at all
5) our baptism fulfills righteousness
6) a testimony to the jews
B
Zone, your efforts are fruitless and change nothing. Those who have sound doctrine are immovable. Your premise and frame of reference is your problem and until that changes you will come out with the same conclusions. baptismal regeneration is a false doctrine that Lutherans have gotten wrong for a long time and you ascribe to that false doctrine. That is your error and your identification with the Lutheran church. The scriptures do not agree with you nor does the Holy Spirit.
BradC
BradC
Perhaps or perhaps the question could be asked is it a part of it and can not really be separated from grace any more then one can separate to love God,know God,trust God and obey God?
Jesus did say this
John 14:23-24
23 Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.24 Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.
And again Jesus said this
John 3
3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.[a]”
4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”
5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit[b] gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You[c] must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”[d]
We can't leave out that Paul does say in baptism we are buried with Christ through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
Again it's not a work of man but by faith it is a work of the Spirit.
Jesus did say this
John 14:23-24
23 Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.24 Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.
And again Jesus said this
John 3
3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.[a]”
4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”
5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit[b] gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You[c] must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”[d]
We can't leave out that Paul does say in baptism we are buried with Christ through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
Again it's not a work of man but by faith it is a work of the Spirit.
UMMM You are aware that for 3,000 people to be baptized by full water immersion in Jerusalem would be nigh impossible?
The typography and water sources make it difficult to get enough water for drinking alone let alone full water immersion.
Water in Jerusalem
For thousands of years, the Gihon spring down in the Kidron Valley at the foot of the Temple Mount remained Jerusalem´s main source of fresh water. Topographically, the city walls could not include the spring. The early Jebusites had dug a shaft to reach the water. It was through this shaft that King David and his men entered the town around 1000 BCE, and conquered it. The above mentioned tunnel was built by King Hezekiah in the 8th century BCE, thus hiding the water's course. Due to Hezekiah's foresight, Jerusalem was able to hold out against the siege layed to the city by the Assyrian king Sanherib in 701 BCE.
Through all seasons of the year, the waters of the Gihon spring flow, gushing forward intermittently like a geysir. Hence the name which means „The Gushing One“. The precious liquid was carried uphill into the city by the people of Jerusalem in earthen jars, over a steep flight of steps hewn into the bare rock. To this day, these steps lead down to a vaulted room from where one can hear the water running in the cave below. Referring to these steps, the spring is called Umm al-Daraj in Arabic, meaning 'Mother of the Steps'.In addition to the Gihon and the pertaining reservoir of Siloam, Jerusalemites came to depend on other natural springs in the surrounding areas. At the end of the dry season, when cisterns became empty, water from these springs was brought in sheep skins into the city and sold by water carriers. This method was in use as late as the beginning of the twentieth century.
Yet the city's water supply depended mostly on the precipitation falling during the rainy season. Located on top of the area's main watershed that defines the border between barren and fertile lands, the Judean Montains pierce the dark winter clouds during the short wet season, and the rain - which on occasion can turn into wild downpours - drenches the city..........
Today, the water situation is under control, but only in answer to a constant and increasing challenge. Jerusalem has an average rainfall of 57 days annually, with a mean precipitation of 486 mm (19 inches). Due to their climate, and ever since the siege laid to the city in 1948, Jerusalemites are peculiar about water, especially when used for recreational purposes. Public fountains and swimming pools which elsewhere in Israel are an integral part of everyday life, are still a rare thing in Jerusalem. Yehuda Amichai, modern Hebrew poet and resident of the city, makes an according statement:
I am a Jerusalemite. Swimming pools with
their voices and their noises are not part of my soul.
The dust is my conscious, the stone my subconscious
And all my memories are closed courtyards
at summer´s high noon.2
Water in Jerusalem | All About Jerusalem
So how did they get enough water to fully immerse 3,000 men,especially when one factors in Pentecost comes during the DRY SEASON? And please remember a good portion of Israel is also a desert.
The typography and water sources make it difficult to get enough water for drinking alone let alone full water immersion.
Water in Jerusalem
For thousands of years, the Gihon spring down in the Kidron Valley at the foot of the Temple Mount remained Jerusalem´s main source of fresh water. Topographically, the city walls could not include the spring. The early Jebusites had dug a shaft to reach the water. It was through this shaft that King David and his men entered the town around 1000 BCE, and conquered it. The above mentioned tunnel was built by King Hezekiah in the 8th century BCE, thus hiding the water's course. Due to Hezekiah's foresight, Jerusalem was able to hold out against the siege layed to the city by the Assyrian king Sanherib in 701 BCE.
Through all seasons of the year, the waters of the Gihon spring flow, gushing forward intermittently like a geysir. Hence the name which means „The Gushing One“. The precious liquid was carried uphill into the city by the people of Jerusalem in earthen jars, over a steep flight of steps hewn into the bare rock. To this day, these steps lead down to a vaulted room from where one can hear the water running in the cave below. Referring to these steps, the spring is called Umm al-Daraj in Arabic, meaning 'Mother of the Steps'.In addition to the Gihon and the pertaining reservoir of Siloam, Jerusalemites came to depend on other natural springs in the surrounding areas. At the end of the dry season, when cisterns became empty, water from these springs was brought in sheep skins into the city and sold by water carriers. This method was in use as late as the beginning of the twentieth century.
Yet the city's water supply depended mostly on the precipitation falling during the rainy season. Located on top of the area's main watershed that defines the border between barren and fertile lands, the Judean Montains pierce the dark winter clouds during the short wet season, and the rain - which on occasion can turn into wild downpours - drenches the city..........
Today, the water situation is under control, but only in answer to a constant and increasing challenge. Jerusalem has an average rainfall of 57 days annually, with a mean precipitation of 486 mm (19 inches). Due to their climate, and ever since the siege laid to the city in 1948, Jerusalemites are peculiar about water, especially when used for recreational purposes. Public fountains and swimming pools which elsewhere in Israel are an integral part of everyday life, are still a rare thing in Jerusalem. Yehuda Amichai, modern Hebrew poet and resident of the city, makes an according statement:
I am a Jerusalemite. Swimming pools with
their voices and their noises are not part of my soul.
The dust is my conscious, the stone my subconscious
And all my memories are closed courtyards
at summer´s high noon.2
Water in Jerusalem | All About Jerusalem
So how did they get enough water to fully immerse 3,000 men,especially when one factors in Pentecost comes during the DRY SEASON? And please remember a good portion of Israel is also a desert.
Yes exactly and as Peter was explaining what happened with the Cornelius family, he remembered about how they were Baptized by the holy Ghost without water Baptism.
Ephesians 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
So what is the true Baptism today that saves, water or Holy Ghost? what did John say about this? Who has already come after him? What does Jesus Baptize with? Who did he say he would send? Pretty simple to me. and thanks for that insight on your post
[h=3]Acts 11:15-17[/h]New International Version (NIV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]“As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning. [SUP]16 [/SUP]Then I remembered what the Lord had said: ‘John baptized with[SUP][a][/SUP] water, but you will be baptized with[SUP][b][/SUP] the Holy Spirit.’ [SUP]17 [/SUP]So if God gave them the same gift he gave us who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to think that I could stand in God’s way?”
And so now this is why, Peter in Peter's writings say what water Baptism is a good conscious to God the Father, and not the washing away of sins. Anyway one Baptism is of flesh and the other is from God in the Spirit of God via the resurrected Christ, whom is ascended and at the right of god making constant intercession for us the believe, for Christ is the propitiation not only for our sins, but the whole world.
Now that is good mews to appreciate, not take for granted
Ephesians 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
So what is the true Baptism today that saves, water or Holy Ghost? what did John say about this? Who has already come after him? What does Jesus Baptize with? Who did he say he would send? Pretty simple to me. and thanks for that insight on your post
[h=3]Acts 11:15-17[/h]New International Version (NIV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]“As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning. [SUP]16 [/SUP]Then I remembered what the Lord had said: ‘John baptized with[SUP][a][/SUP] water, but you will be baptized with[SUP][b][/SUP] the Holy Spirit.’ [SUP]17 [/SUP]So if God gave them the same gift he gave us who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to think that I could stand in God’s way?”
And so now this is why, Peter in Peter's writings say what water Baptism is a good conscious to God the Father, and not the washing away of sins. Anyway one Baptism is of flesh and the other is from God in the Spirit of God via the resurrected Christ, whom is ascended and at the right of god making constant intercession for us the believe, for Christ is the propitiation not only for our sins, but the whole world.
Now that is good mews to appreciate, not take for granted
So how do you deal with the fact that the Bible clearly also says that John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit while he was in his mothers womb? Wouldn't that point to the fact that even a child in the womb can be a child of God?
And again how do you deal with autistic adults who can not articulate it? Would you baptize them or they out of luck?
And again how do you deal with autistic adults who can not articulate it? Would you baptize them or they out of luck?
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Luke 1
11 Then an angel of the Lord appeared to him, standing at the right side of the altar of incense. 12 When Zechariah saw him, he was startled and was gripped with fear. 13 But the angel said to him: “Do not be afraid, Zechariah; your prayer has been heard. Your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you are to call him John. 14 He will be a joy and delight to you, and many will rejoice because of his birth, 15 for he will be great in the sight of the Lord. He is never to take wine or other fermented drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit even before he is born. 16 He will bring back many of the people of Israel to the Lord their God. 17 And he will go on before the Lord, in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the parents to their children and the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous—to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.”
11 Then an angel of the Lord appeared to him, standing at the right side of the altar of incense. 12 When Zechariah saw him, he was startled and was gripped with fear. 13 But the angel said to him: “Do not be afraid, Zechariah; your prayer has been heard. Your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you are to call him John. 14 He will be a joy and delight to you, and many will rejoice because of his birth, 15 for he will be great in the sight of the Lord. He is never to take wine or other fermented drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit even before he is born. 16 He will bring back many of the people of Israel to the Lord their God. 17 And he will go on before the Lord, in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the parents to their children and the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous—to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.”
B
Do you know of others who had the Spirit in the womb? Are you making that claim for yourself when you stated in Post 145 that you can't remember a time when you did not believe? Perhaps Zone has some comments on this. If I had made that claim she would have been all over me. Are we to believe that salvation starts in the whom along with the filling of the Spirit? Where are you Zone...hello is anybody there?
I never said I was filled with the Holy Spirit when I was in the womb. Th Bible does show it is POSSIBLE WITH GOD. You say it's not possible for a little child,yet the Bible does disagree with you. Again it is the work of the Holy Spirit. Without the working of the Holy Spirit NONE of us could ever believe. It is a know FACT that children can HEAR in the womb. So are you saying that a woman reading the gospels out loud to her unborn child has NO EFFECT at all until their born? Or is it the work of the Holy Spirit working through the preaching of the word? Are you saying God CAN NOT do that? Again the Bible point to the fact that God can do that.
And again you did not answer the second part of that post. Again how do you deal with adult's that can NOT articulate it the same way you can? Do you baptize autistic adults or do you deny them?
And again you did not answer the second part of that post. Again how do you deal with adult's that can NOT articulate it the same way you can? Do you baptize autistic adults or do you deny them?
B
"J. H. Thayer gives the term this sense: “which (baptism) now saves us [you] not because in receiving it we [ye] have put away the filth of the flesh, but because we [ye] have earnestly sought a conscience reconciled to God” (1958, 230)."
Amplified - 1 Peter 3:20,21 20 [The souls of those] who long before in the days of Noah had been disobedient, when God’s patience waited during the building of the ark in which a few [people], actually eight in number, were saved through water.21 And baptism, which is a figure [of their deliverance], does now also save you [from inward questionings and fears], not by the removing of outward body filth [bathing], but by [providing you with] the answer of a good and clear conscience (inward cleanness and peace) before God [because you are demonstrating what you believe to be yours] through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
The blood of Christ the moment we have believed and were saved has purged the conscience from dead works, works associated with the flesh that corresponds to the lust of the flesh, the eyes and the pride of life, that we might serve a living God. Water baptism that saves us is the outward expression (a figure of deliverance) of a good conscience before God, demonstrating the death, burial and RESURRECTION of Jesus Christ. Postionally, when we are saved, we were crucifed, buried and resurrected in Christ as the one new man. Water baptism is an outward expression and act of obedience unto Jesus Christ that identifies with the one new man demonstrating to the world, to the atmosphere of the spiritual realm and to those present a good conscience of faith rooted in the death, burial and RESURRECTION of Jesus Christ.
Amplified - 1 Peter 3:20,21 20 [The souls of those] who long before in the days of Noah had been disobedient, when God’s patience waited during the building of the ark in which a few [people], actually eight in number, were saved through water.21 And baptism, which is a figure [of their deliverance], does now also save you [from inward questionings and fears], not by the removing of outward body filth [bathing], but by [providing you with] the answer of a good and clear conscience (inward cleanness and peace) before God [because you are demonstrating what you believe to be yours] through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
The blood of Christ the moment we have believed and were saved has purged the conscience from dead works, works associated with the flesh that corresponds to the lust of the flesh, the eyes and the pride of life, that we might serve a living God. Water baptism that saves us is the outward expression (a figure of deliverance) of a good conscience before God, demonstrating the death, burial and RESURRECTION of Jesus Christ. Postionally, when we are saved, we were crucifed, buried and resurrected in Christ as the one new man. Water baptism is an outward expression and act of obedience unto Jesus Christ that identifies with the one new man demonstrating to the world, to the atmosphere of the spiritual realm and to those present a good conscience of faith rooted in the death, burial and RESURRECTION of Jesus Christ.
Sorry but Paul says it is in baptism we are buried with Christ
Colossians 2
9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, 10 and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and authority. 11 In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh[b] was put off when you were circumcised by[c]Christ, 12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.
Romans 6
6 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
How do you deal with those passages? Paul flat out says IN BAPTISM we are baptized INTO Christ's death,and BURIED with Him. Paul plainly says something HAPPENS in baptism. No matter how hard you try you can't get around it that it is NOT just an outward sign of an inward change.
Never mind that Paul goes through all the things about the rituals that CAN DO NOTHING only for Jesus then to command something that in and of itself that would be just another ritual. How does that make sense to remove all the other rituals only to replace with something that is nothing more then a NEW RITUAL?
Colossians 2
9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, 10 and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and authority. 11 In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh[b] was put off when you were circumcised by[c]Christ, 12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.
Romans 6
6 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
How do you deal with those passages? Paul flat out says IN BAPTISM we are baptized INTO Christ's death,and BURIED with Him. Paul plainly says something HAPPENS in baptism. No matter how hard you try you can't get around it that it is NOT just an outward sign of an inward change.
Never mind that Paul goes through all the things about the rituals that CAN DO NOTHING only for Jesus then to command something that in and of itself that would be just another ritual. How does that make sense to remove all the other rituals only to replace with something that is nothing more then a NEW RITUAL?
Okay so this shows that it is God that does the Baptism of the Spirit, not water, nor man's doing. And it was God that called John to do this water Baptism to Baptize Christ to fill all Law of the Levite tribe and bring in new law and new Priesthood.
John announce dafter Christ's Baptism that the Messiah has arrived, and Christ is the only one that can or ever could please God the Father in the flesh.
Water Baptism is over and the Holy Ghost Baptism is in, thanks for that scripture of proof. Did anyone water Baptize John? As a matter of fact did he nor say to Christ that he needed to be Baptized of Christ?
Just looking at the whole picture of what went on then and what is for today
Think as want you are free to choose
Thanking god for his amazing salvation plan through Son Christ
John announce dafter Christ's Baptism that the Messiah has arrived, and Christ is the only one that can or ever could please God the Father in the flesh.
Water Baptism is over and the Holy Ghost Baptism is in, thanks for that scripture of proof. Did anyone water Baptize John? As a matter of fact did he nor say to Christ that he needed to be Baptized of Christ?
Just looking at the whole picture of what went on then and what is for today
Think as want you are free to choose
Thanking god for his amazing salvation plan through Son Christ