Kick Them Out!

[Wanderers]

Some years back, when I hadn't been a Christian very long, a chap I knew (he was in our house group and we'd been round his house to help him decorate) was asked to come to the front of the church. It was a Sunday morning.

The leaders then proceeded to announce to the congregation (and any visitors who may have been present) that this chap had been seeing prostitutes and had not fully repented. There were other things as well but suffice to say he then marched out of the church never to return. A year or so later he was dead through a drugs overdose.

Whilst I understand the need to preserve the church of God I still look back on that experience with shame. It is oft said that as many people join the church leave it. The once loving and accepting flock that embraced the penitent sinner soon turns into the stone throwing, intolerant judge as soon as the penitent sinner disagrees with them or falls from grace.

No wonder the church is full of those who wear masks.

 

[Rockbysea]

Hello again my friend Cobus. I’d like to point out before I continue so there is no misunderstanding that I know you don’t think you are perfect and I never read anywhere of you saying such. I do not want you to feel that you're being ganged up on. I appreciate your passion for the Lord. I’d rather listen to teachings that err on the side of perfection than the prevalent teachings that err on the side of corruption.

Cobus your teachings are so confusing …. You seem to be changing your argument as we progress. Now you’re saying that the Holy Spirit is “Not even IN YOU, he only lays the GUILT ON YOU,” Before you asked the question “Does sinners have the Holy Spirit IN FULL in them?” in response to me pointing out in the scripture a brother with the Holy Spirit falling. By this you seemed to be implying that sinners receive the Holy Spirit not in FULL but in small measure or in part. In order for them to be perfect they must receive Him IN FULL. Now after I pointed out what seemed to be a contradiction from you’re earlier views, that sinners can’t have the Holy Spirit within them even in small measure, now you’re clarifying it and saying that they don’t have the Holy Spirit within them at all but He just convicts them from the outside.

Rockbysea WE ALL got the Holy Spirit as the CONVICTOR.... THe REPROVER of sin... God said this.... John 16:8....And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

Here you’re saying we ALL "got" the Holy Spirit as a convictor. Got is not the right word so I'm correcting you because I know English is not your main language. There is a difference between hearing the Holy Spirit and receiving the Holy Spirit. When you hear the Holy Spirit you don’t “got” the Holy Spirit. You only “got” the Holy Spirit when you hear then repent and then you receive Him and He dwells within you… then you “got” the Holy Spirit. The examples I gave of imperfection were men of God who received the Holy Spirit... who "got" the Holy Spirit.

So again you do not understand it.... No sinner is filled with the Holy Spirit, and no sinner has the HOLY SPIRIT AS AN INDWELLING SPIRIT IN HIM...

First I want to address your claim about instant perfection, becoming perfect “on the spot”. And we can address the sinning and having the Holy Spirit separately.

I gave you examples of those who were filled with the Holy Spirit and were not “perfect”. But their imperfections that got exposed by their contentions and by their admitting to their own weaknesses, was not sin.

Now regarding sinning and having the indwelling of the Holy Spirit: I gave you an example of a "brother" that I can only believe had the “INDWELLING SPIRIT IN HIM” and he sinned and was restored.

Cobus you keep ignoring the scriptures I post that shows “imperfection” from those who have the Holy Spirit and shows that one can sin after they receive the Holy Spirit and be restored.

Please get this now.... THE HOLY SPIRIT LEADS before HE FILLS....

Yes I know this Cobus but that’s not what we’re disagreeing about. You believe that people can be perfect instantly and you provide no scriptural evidence. You pulled the 5,000 men right out of context to support your instant perfection on the spot claim where there was nothing in that scripture that alluded to the 5,000 becoming instantly perfect “on the spot.”

Rockbysea, the cleansing may take YEARS but the FILLING of the Holy Ghost God says is like HE FALLS ON YOU... WOW! Acts 8 please go read Acts 8 where Philip came to Samaria but the Spirit did not fall on none of them YET... and when he did HE FELL ON THEM....In full....

The Holy Spirit does the majority of cleansing from the inside not after years and years on the outside. This is your own view, Cobus… there is nothing you provide in the scripture to back that up. Those who had the Holy Spirit fall on them were not made instantly perfect. They have to grow Cobus…. Grow…. And they need the indwelling of the Holy Spirit to do just that.

As I mentioned earlier, a child of man must learn and be taught by his parents as he grows. It is exactly the same for a child of God. A child of God is only a child of God when he has the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Then the child of God grows up like all children do because he is taught by His Parents (the Father and the Holy Spirit). What you are teaching is that a man grows up over time and then becomes instantly a child of God when he receives the Holy Spirit and he’s instantly all grown up and a perfect grown up child of God. Nature Cobus, which God designed for our teaching, teaches you that this is not the way it works. A child of God is called a child of God when they receive the Holy Spirit for a reason, because like all children they have to grow up.

You have provided no scriptural support for your instant perfection on the spot teaching. You believe the Holy Spirit leads and then fills and you have provided lots of scripture to support that… Well I believe that too. You do not have to go on and on about that because all this is doing is taking up alot of discussion space and distracting from our point of contention and that is that there is no evidence by the scripture that one becomes instantly perfect on the spot when they receive the Holy Spirit. This is all just your teaching, Cobus. But I have provided scriptural evidence to show that it is not instantaneous and a "brother" can fall and be restored… a "brother" is one who has the Holy Spirit. If you can’t prove otherwise by the scripture then you can only do what most do when they can't support their views… grasp at straws.

Rockbysea let you and I reason this thing through MANY peopel can learn by this.... I would LOVE if God make you and I ONE IN HIM ,IN HIM AND PERFECTLY ONE WITH EACHOTHER... HIS WILL my friend HIS WILL....

Yes Cobus my friend… this will happen

 

[KohenMatt]

I promise, my church isn't as weird as I'm making it out to be, but here is another example of when we had to give someone the "Right Foot of Fellowship" as we jokingly say......

Several years ago, an older man who occasionally came to our church decided to cast lots for every person in our church directory to determine what tribe of Israel he or she was descended from. He determined that everyone was from a tribe except........me. He then said he had a vision of an apocalyptic-type war where I had died and he was caring for my wife and kids.

This was after he had apparently gone through some school records of a small town in Utah and cast lots to determine that there was a several year period where children died unexpectantly. He again said there was going to a be a large war where there were no kids being born or living long lives. I can't remember what exactly he said would happen; some odd conclusion I imagine.

He was promptly told to leave. Fortunately, he hasn't come back.

 

[LT]

Some years back, when I hadn't been a Christian very long, a chap I knew (he was in our house group and we'd been round his house to help him decorate) was asked to come to the front of the church. It was a Sunday morning.

The leaders then proceeded to announce to the congregation (and any visitors who may have been present) that this chap had been seeing prostitutes and had not fully repented. There were other things as well but suffice to say he then marched out of the church never to return. A year or so later he was dead through a drugs overdose.

Whilst I understand the need to preserve the church of God I still look back on that experience with shame. It is oft said that as many people join the church leave it. The once loving and accepting flock that embraced the penitent sinner soon turns into the stone throwing, intolerant judge as soon as the penitent sinner disagrees with them or falls from grace.

No wonder the church is full of those who wear masks.

it is hard to say whether or not it was done properly just from the details you gave. it should not be assumed that his death was because of the fault of the church. His own unrepentant sin caused his death.
I'm not sure the attitude that was present, but openly discussing sin or call someone out on their sin IS NOT necessarily judging them. Don't confuse rebuke with judgement. Like it was said before, love is the difference between them.

 

[Rockbysea]

Also Cobus…. During the time of the establishment of the ministry there were many outward miracles,,, signs and wonders. These outward miracles were a necessity for the completion and establishment of the written testimony. Christ said to His disciples that they would do more signs and wonders than He and that the Holy Spirit would come and the world at that time would see it…. And that is exactly what happened. Many thousands saw miraculous visible manifestations of the Holy Spirit coming in power…. people could see tongues of fire and feel earthquakes etc…. This was all part of the establishment of the ministry along with the raising of the dead, giving sight to the blind, healing the sick etc….

Today this is not happening because that initial part of the work is completed. When one receives the Holy Spirit today there are no earthquakes or tongues of fire.... just like people are no longer being raised from the dead. If this is the type of visible evidence you are waiting for when you say the Holy Spirit used to "fall" on people, to make you perfect you may have to wait a long time.

 

[The_highwayman]

Also Cobus…. During the time of the establishment of the ministry there were many outward miracles,,, signs and wonders. These outward miracles were a necessity for the completion and establishment of the written testimony. Christ said to His disciples that they would do more signs and wonders than He and that the Holy Spirit would come and the world at that time would see it…. And that is exactly what happened. Many thousands saw miraculous visible manifestations of the Holy Spirit coming in power…. people could see tongues of fire and feel earthquakes etc…. This was all part of the establishment of the ministry along with the raising of the dead, giving sight to the blind, healing the sick etc….

Today this is not happening because that initial part of the work is completed. When one receives the Holy Spirit today there are no earthquakes or tongues of fire.... just like people are no longer being raised from the dead. If this is the type of visible evidence you are waiting for to make you perfect you may have to wait a long time.

Another one puts God in a box....

 

[Wanderers]

it is hard to say whether or not it was done properly just from the details you gave. it should not be assumed that his death was because of the fault of the church. His own unrepentant sin caused his death.
I'm not sure the attitude that was present, but openly discussing sin or call someone out on their sin IS NOT necessarily judging them. Don't confuse rebuke with judgement. Like it was said before, love is the difference between them.

I think you are generally correct, LT. I say 'generally' because the 'heavy shepherding' movement I was then involved with did cause a lot of heartache. It was during this period I first heard the term 'spiritual abuse'. And whilst I agree that this chap's death may not have been incumbent on the church I often wonder what may have been if we had not been so quick to march folk out of the church as soon as we discovered they were actually, you know, sinners. Just like the rest of us.

The line between judging and rebukingis a fine one and love is indeed the key. Jesus invited the gathering to cast the first stone. In contrast, churches too often decided to throw not just stones but boulders as well!

 

[Bookends]

Some years back, when I hadn't been a Christian very long, a chap I knew (he was in our house group and we'd been round his house to help him decorate) was asked to come to the front of the church. It was a Sunday morning.

The leaders then proceeded to announce to the congregation (and any visitors who may have been present) that this chap had been seeing prostitutes and had not fully repented. There were other things as well but suffice to say he then marched out of the church never to return. A year or so later he was dead through a drugs overdose.

Whilst I understand the need to preserve the church of God I still look back on that experience with shame. It is oft said that as many people join the church leave it. The once loving and accepting flock that embraced the penitent sinner soon turns into the stone throwing, intolerant judge as soon as the penitent sinner disagrees with them or falls from grace.

No wonder the church is full of those who wear masks.

Perhaps the leaders went about it the wrong way.

Immorality Defiles the Church

5 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and such sexual immorality as is not even named among the Gentiles—that a man has his father’s wife! [SUP]2 [/SUP]And you are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he who has done this deed might be taken away from among you. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For I indeed, as absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged (as though I were present) him who has so done this deed. [SUP]4 [/SUP]In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, [SUP]5 [/SUP]deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

[SUP]6 [/SUP]Your glorying is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump? [SUP]7 [/SUP]Therefore purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened. For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.


Was Paul judgement of this man wrong? Was Paul throwing stones?

 

[Wanderers]

Perhaps the leaders went about it the wrong way.

Immorality Defiles the Church

5 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and such sexual immorality as is not even named among the Gentiles—that a man has his father’s wife! [SUP]2 [/SUP]And you are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he who has done this deed might be taken away from among you. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For I indeed, as absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged (as though I were present) him who has so done this deed. [SUP]4 [/SUP]In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, [SUP]5 [/SUP]deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

[SUP]6 [/SUP]Your glorying is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump? [SUP]7 [/SUP]Therefore purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened. For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

Was Paul judgement of this man wrong? Was Paul throwing stones?

It does indeed seem to be a dichotomy: Jesus forgave the adulterous woman after she had been chucked in the dirt whereas Paul seems to have zero tolerance. Perhaps the balance lies in the place where continuous, unrepentant sin destroys and can have a bad effect on others?

 

[Bookends]

It does indeed seem to be a dichotomy: Jesus forgave the adulterous woman after she had been chucked in the dirt whereas Paul seems to have zero tolerance. Perhaps the balance lies in the place where continuous, unrepentant sin destroys and can have a bad effect on others?

Perhaps the difference is the woman wasn't a professing Christian at the time, or a follower of Christ to be more accurate, nor someone who should know better (ex. the religious Jewish leaders..).

 

[Wanderers]

Perhaps the difference is the woman wasn't a professing Christian at the time, or a follower of Christ to be more accurate, nor someone who should know better (ex. the religious Jewish leaders..).

Could well be, Bookends. Which brings me back to my own point about how quick the church is to boot someone out when they fall into sin.

I think there is a difference between those attending and those 'in fellowship'. The former are those who are seeking or have some faith. The latter are those who are committed to the faith and a particular church.

There are also secular examples: how long would a person expect to stay within a political party if it became apparent he or she were saying and doing things in contradiction to what their current party holds dear?

 

[The_highwayman]

I want to eb clear it is no where in the Bible but I believe Jesus was writing every Pharisee's and scribes name in the dirt that had sex with the women they wanted to stone. and Jesus, being so awesome, blew them out of the water again!

 

[Cobus]

Rockbysea, we do not have any Scripture on how the Holy Spirit works today. Accept that God says what has been will be and what will be has been. Also God gives us the assurance that HE DOES NOT CHANGE. Now about the Holy Spirit that convicts or reproof us and the world of sin...

Rock, Jesus says the world (the lost that will end up in hell / the ones He did NOT pray for in John 17) CANNOT recieve the Spirit of Truth... So how does HE reprove them of their sin? It is a fact the the Holy Spirit reprove the world of sin, John 16:8.. According to you they have GOT the Holy Spirit and yet Jesus says they CANNOT receive Him. But still he reprove them of sin...So that is where you are in error to think the Spirit is an indwelling Spirit in sinners as well...

You see Rock the Holy Spirit has some charactoristics to him... Attributes that cannot be denied... And it does not matter in what vessel He enters, when He enters He is the POWER OF GOD. Let me try and put it in a more understandible term... If God puts His Holy Spirit in a vessel, that Holy Spirit REMOVES the OLD life of that vessel. When God enters into a donkey, the donkey will not HONK, he will TALK. The donkey will speak the WORDS OF GOD, the donkey will ACT THE ACTS OF GOD, the donkey will have the thoughts OF GOD. If God's Spirit goes into a rock, the rock will not be stone, he will TALK the words OF GOD. The rock will act like GOD, the rock will think LIKE GOD... IF a prophet receives the Spirit of God the prophet will live like God in flesh/man the prohet will think like God, the prohet will speak and talk what God wants him to say. The prophet will be like God if God is in that flesh.... Why? because the Holy Spirit is GOD. The Holy Spirit only know ONE LIFE, a HOLY LIFE. The Holy Spirit can only live ONE life, a HOLY LIFE.

God can only be in ONE MEASURE in a man, donkey, stone, church, He is in or not. God does not teach ANY place that he is portionally given and GROWING in a person.... When the 120 people went into the upper room, not ONE of them had the Holy Spirit in them, NOT ONE... when the tongues of Fire came upon them they were ALL FILLED with the Holy Spirit. Do you see this... not some were filled, and some got 50% and some got 10%... they all recveived the Holy Spirit in FULL... 120 people, one minute NONE had the Spirit, and the next moment they were ALL filled....

Ok so that is proof that when God POURS the Spirit over the people he wants to pour Him out on, that God does not stop untill the whole VESSEL is filled....
Let us look at Cornelius and his people as well... Cornelius was even finding favour with God with the prayer life and charity life he lived.... God found so much favout with this Gentile that God even send an angel to this man.... What I want you to see is how PURE LIFE this man lived, how wonderful he prayed and how righteous he lived, even in the eyes of GOD...
God says he was a Godfearing man, and to FEAR God is the beginning of Wisdom... so this man ACTUALLY lived VERY wisely. God fearing life... What sinners CANNOT do, but let us not loose focus....

So Cornelius was a devout man that prayed all day, and lived a life pleasing to God... And God's angel said to him.... Your prayers and your alms have come up a MEMORIAL before GOD... Now let me ASSURE you this is how it will happen with us as well.... And then God's Word says... Cornelius a JUST MAN... WOW!!! Even God says a JUST MAN Acts 10:22... Just WITHOUT the HOLY SPIRIT? WOW! And without the GOSPEL of Jesus? WOW!!!!

But just shows you how God's wisdom and faith comes with the Holy Spirit leading, and not even one grain in the man YET. Even the fear and wisdom is fruit of the FAITH of a person that has the HEART OF GOD. The heart of God is NOT the Spirit. It is the FAITH and WISDOM... Truth and love... These are things that grow... ALL these things grow, but NOT THE SPIRIT...
Love grows, Faith grows, Wisdom grows, The Word of God grows in us, Fear of God grows, Pureness grows. Many things grow, but NOT HOLINESS.... Holiness is like a light, it is either on or off. No dimswithch or dimming. It is God's Light or Satan;s darkness... And we will be IN darkness untill God LIGHTS US UP WITH HIS HOLY SPIRIT....

The Holy Spirit leading is as the Word says.... A LIGHT ON OUR PATH..... So we can FOLLOW the light, but the LIGHT IS NOT IN US YET.... And now I thank God for the WISDOM he just shed on this subject and essay.... God is LIGHT, and we will only be LIGHT BEARERS when HE PUTS HIS LIGHT ON IN US.... And untill we STOPPED SINNING, the light will ONLY LEAD us on the PATH OF RIGHTEOUSNESS... We will still be vessels, following the light on His WAY... When we followed ALL the WAY (Jesus is the WAY) we passed through Jesus, and only THEN DOES GOD IMPLANTS THE LIGHT INSIDE US... Now we do not FOLLOW the light (Jesus) now we ARE THE LIGHT...(WOW, I am tempted to say, now we are Jesus in the flesh again but some will be so shocked) so I will just say... As Jesus was the light, so are we now as well....

My friend the MOMENT God puts the light on THERE IS NO MORE DARKNESS.... That is the moment The Holy Spirit ENTERS...

I know people want to say they have the Spirit inside leading, but as LONG as the Spirit is leading, he is NOT MOVING, CONTROLING.... YOU ARE.... And as long as YOU are controling of acting, or talking, or thinking, the HOLY SPIRIT IS NOT IN CONTROL YET.... But the MOMENT GOD REMOVES YOUR SPIRIT AND SOUL, and HE PUTS HIS SPIRIT AND SOUL IN YOU, then you are GONE FROM THAT FLESH... You DIED to flesh, and flesh to you. That is the INSTANT, you receive ETERNAL GLORY WITH GOD...

Let me put it in the plainest English I can.... As long as you are in the flesh.. YOU, not the Holy Spirit, YOU, The Holy SPIRIT did not come into your flesh YET!!!! The Holy Spirit can TALK to your Spirit, from as far as the HEAVENS are from the Earth. He does so with ALL people, even Judas Iscariot knew he sinned, and killed himself, but did Judas EVER received the Holy Spirit? NOPE! When Jesus blew over the disciples and He said... Receive the Holy Ghost, that is when the Spirit of God started to TALK to the Disciples... Even from heaven.... That is why they could heal the sick, and chase out demons... The Spirit LEAD them as Jesus did in person.... But they WERE NOT FILLED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT....

The Holy Spirit can TALK to any spirit He wants too... He even commanded EVIL spirits into the pigs... so hearing the Holy Spirit is DEFENATELY not being filled with the Holy Spirit.... So, we now know that hearing and being lead and TAUGHT by the Spirit, is NOT being filled or moved or driven or controled or given life by the Holy Spirit, it is ONLY HEARING....

But when He does move in, we are not even here to hear HIM. But that is another discussion and way deeper than this...

I know you say the person that sinned was filled withthe Holy Spirit, but HE WAS NOT, and if He was, then their is NO MORE salvation for him. The Bible is VERY clear on that... You see AFTER a person has received the Holy Spirit in full and sin even any sin ONCE, that is the sin against the Holy Spirit, and there is NO FORGIVENESS FOR THAT...

This we can make our next topic.. the sin against the Holy Spirit.... UNFORGIVEABLE sin...

So in plain English... As long as you hear the Holy Spirit, he is NOT IN YOU... if THE HOLY SPIRIT LIVES YOUR LIFE FOR YOU HERE ON EARTH, YOU ARE THEN FILLED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT....

Let me tell you this... A Holy Spirit filled person will NOT pray for a person that sinned against the Holy Spirit.... Look how the two (Ananias and Sapphira) died right there in their boots, when they lied to theHoly Spirit, AFTER they also received the Holy Spirit.... Imagine we all will die if we sin AFTER we received the holy Spirit (like so many claim they have received the Holy Spirit)... there would be VERY few people on this earth then.....All the "Christians" I know would be DEAD.... Fortunately they do not have the Spirit of God in them YET... Or they would all be dead if the reward for Ananias and them were to be the same...

Now to end.... As long as you sin, you do NOT have the SEED of God (The holy Spirit) in you, you ONLY HEAR Him as He DRAWS you nearer to the LIGHT....

 

[loveme1]

How do you become perfect?

Did anyone ask the Messiah this when He spoke those words?

 

[loveme1]

UMMM Loveme1,

Cobus does not claim to be a Christian yet or born again.

I have never seen Cobus deny the Father or Son.

 

[loveme1]

This doesn't sound like inner peace to me

Matthew 7

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Many believed they were worthy because of their "wonderful works" only to be told to depart because of "iniquity"

 

[tdrew777]

Do you see how the WHole Bible takes hands and makes PERFECT sence that only PERFECT people can be made ONE BODY IN CHRSIT JESUS?

You completely ignore the main point: YOU ARE HIJACKING YET ANOTHER THREAD TO POST NONSENSE.

whole not WHole
"takes hands and makes" is unintelligible
CHRIST not CHRSIT

So then, you are not part of the body of Christ. You do not have Christ in you AND you yourself are not perfect. If you were part of the body of Christ, you would have the Holy Spirit and a perfect regenerated nature (together with a corrupt Old nature, that would be being crucified). You would experience conflict between the two natures, as Paul expresses in Romans 7. But none of that is not the case with you. You are deluded to believe that God has granted to you sinless imperfection. FINE, BUT NOT IN THIS THREAD. THIS THREAD IS ABOUT THE PROCESS OF KICKING PEOPLE OUT OF CHURCH. That is my point.

 

[Ugly]

You completely ignore the main point: YOU ARE HIJACKING YET ANOTHER THREAD TO POST NONSENSE.

whole not WHole
"takes hands and makes" is unintelligible
CHRIST not CHRSIT

So then, you are not part of the body of Christ. You do not have Christ in you AND you yourself are not perfect. If you were part of the body of Christ, you would have the Holy Spirit and a perfect regenerated nature (together with a corrupt Old nature, that would be being crucified). You would experience conflict between the two natures, as Paul expresses in Romans 7. But none of that is not the case with you. You are deluded to believe that God has granted to you sinless imperfection. FINE, BUT NOT IN THIS THREAD. THIS THREAD IS ABOUT THE PROCESS OF KICKING PEOPLE OUT OF CHURCH. That is my point.

Nitpicking typos? Dang

 

[Cobus]

Ok so let us recap fr the benefit of the NEW readers....
A Chrsitian is NOT a person that recieved th Holy Spirit as the indwelling Spirit YET...But a Christian is a FOLLOWER of JESUS... So they are not people that FOLLOW sin and false teaching...... They follow Jesus... The Truth, the Way, and the Life of HOLINESS....

I sinned and I tried to follow Jesus, but I fail oh so many times... And because I KNOW God does not lead into temptation, and I still sin I did NOT want to claim to be even Chrsitian.... Like so many here they do disgrace to the word Chrsitian... So I would rather be known then as a SEEKER of holiness and righteousness and salvation in Christ... Which should be all the charactoristics of a CHRSITIAN... but since I would be assosiated with the unbelieving sinners, I would rather be called sinner than Chrsitian.

So Sarah I guess I am saying this.... I Christian is what a person is that is not being perfected in this life means to most, then they should PLEASE refrain from calling me a Chrsitian... I am a Chrsitian like the Bible defines a Christian is, not these no hope chritians I can find thousands in the church on Sundays.... Sunday christians is what I call them... On Sunday they are christian and on all the other 6 days they are my stumbling-blocks... I am NOT a Sunday Chrsitian....

Sarah which are you? Are you also one of these sunday Christians that believes God CANNOT and DO NOT make His people perfect on earth? You see if that is Chrisitan, PLEASE DO NOT CALL ME CHRISTIAN....I believe God....And I TRUTST Him to complete me, HERE ON EARTH... not some day way after I died in my sins.... For is you die a sinner, God is going to preserve you as sinner for JUDGEMENT.... But if you DIE TO SIN, NOT IN SIN TO SIN... God will make you perfect, and He will come and live in your flesh a perfect life to DO AS HE PLEASES.... Now if that is called Christian... PLEASE DO CALL ME CHRISTIAN..

So not to assosiate with the FALSE CHRISTIANS I would ather be called SEEKER.... But if Chrisitan is a person that God will make perfect here on earth, then call me CHRISTIAN please.... I do have this hope to be HIS CHILD, not a Chrisitan, but HIS OWN CHILD... PERFECT! I know Christian in the Bible is not perfect yet, but the COMPLETED Christian IS PERFECT AS HIS FATHER IN HEAVEN IS PERFECT... Why? God completed the man...

 

[tdrew777]

I promise, my church isn't as weird as I'm making it out to be, but here is another example of when we had to give someone the "Right Foot of Fellowship" as we jokingly say......

Several years ago, an older man who occasionally came to our church decided to cast lots for every person in our church directory to determine what tribe of Israel he or she was descended from. He determined that everyone was from a tribe except........me. He then said he had a vision of an apocalyptic-type war where I had died and he was caring for my wife and kids.

This was after he had apparently gone through some school records of a small town in Utah and cast lots to determine that there was a several year period where children died unexpectantly. He again said there was going to a be a large war where there were no kids being born or living long lives. I can't remember what exactly he said would happen; some odd conclusion I imagine.

He was promptly told to leave. Fortunately, he hasn't come back.

I feel with you, and with your church. But this is a clear example of what NOT to do. Mat 18 - you GO TO THE MAN PRIVATELY. Nowhere in scripture are you limited to one or two visits. Then, you GO TO THE MAN WITH A SMALL GROUP. Nowhere in scripture are you limited to one or two visits. Then, you GO TO THE WHOLE CONGREGATION. Again, no limits on how many times. After much prayer, much effort, many tears, much pleading….and perhaps after years….you hand a man over to Satan.
You never do this at once because someone is showing delusional behavior. There is a process. And, if we have a reflection of the patience of God, the process will usually be long and drawn out.