TITHING???

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garyarnold

Guest
#41
Matthew 5:17-18 states Christ came to fulfill the law and not abolish it.

This is where some education in law is useful. What does fulfill mean? What does abolish mean?

Let me give an example. A legal contract is enforceable under the law. Let’s say you hire a contractor to build a swimming pool in your back yard. Once the contractor has completed the job, and everything in that contract has been completed, the contract has been fulfilled. The contractor’s job is to fulfill the contract, not abolish it. He fulfills it by completing the terms, bringing it to an end.

Consider:

Hebrews 8:13 (KJV) - In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Colossians 2:14 (KJV) - Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Galatians 5:18 (KJV) - But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Galatians 3:19 (KJV) - Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. In other words, until Jesus came and fulfilled the law.

Galatians 3:23-25 (KJV)
23But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Galatians 3:10-14 (KJV)
10For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
11But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
13Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Monetary income is NOT a form of increase.

Wages are NOT anywhere in scripture classified as a form of INCREASE. Anyone who disagrees, I invite them to show otherwise.

Why?

Simply stated: WAGES are an EXCHANGE of one's labor, time and skills for money, or some other commodity.

If that were not the case, then we would see the Law including any form of compensation for labor, time and skills as titheable, but that clearly is not the case in relation to the Bible as it is written.

INCREASE is what God designed into creation in the arenas of PRODUCE, such as what comes from the fields, orchards, vineyards. A man plants each seed, and each seed produces INCREASE because of God's handiwork, not man's. God Himself furnished the increase by His own hand, therefore man enjoyed an increase that, by himself, could NEVER have been accomplished.

Galatians 5:18 (KJV) But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Notice the “But if” in the above scripture? IF you are led by (of) the Spirit, you are not under the law.

Tithers today are rejecting both the law AND the Spirit. They have the immature “I can do anything I want” attitude. Yes, we CAN do anything we want. We can reject Christ if we want. It is our choice.

Since God, Himself, defined His tithe in Leviticus 27:30-33, no one has a right to change His definition and call it His tithe. Since God, Himself, gave the command (Numbers 18) to take His tithe to the Levites, no one has a right to take His tithe to anyone else.

The ONLY way one can tithe to the church today is for man to make up the rules. And man did just that around 1870, which one can find when they research the history of tithing from income in the Christian Church. That makes it all about man, while the Biblical tithe was all about God.

IF one is led by the Spirit, and the Spirit leads him to give a tenth of his income, he should do it. But that tenth has absolutely NOTHING to do with the Biblical tithe. It would NOT be God’s Holy Tithe.

Unfortunately, many church goers are tithing from their income TO THEIR PASTOR OR LOCAL CHURCH, per the man-made tithing definition. If they think they are tithing to God, then they are being disobedient to God’s command. They are following directions given by man, not God.
 
Aug 28, 2013
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#42
Did Jacob tithe ? Why or Why not
The Bible does not say whether Jacob tithed or not. It simply says Jacob made a conditional vow that if God would meet certain requirements, he would give a tenth. The last of those requirements was not met until nearly 21 years after the vow was made.
 
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#43
How foolish what was the book of proverbs , pslams etc for whom ? Also who is Israel ?
Who was Israel at the time Malachi was written? Was it the Gentile nation? No!

We can learn from the books of the Old Testament, but the commands were strictly for the nation of Israel. Even the Apostles said that the Gentiles were not to be required to keep the Mosaic Law; Jerusalem Council, 51 A.D., Acts 15
 
Aug 28, 2013
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#44
1 Corinthians 11:2Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep theordinances, as I delivered them to you.
The ordinances that Paul delivered to the Church at Corinth were not the ordinances of the Old Testament. Here is what Paul delivered to the Church at Corinth:

Acts 15:28-29 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.
 
Oct 14, 2013
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#45
Who was Israel at the time Malachi was written? Was it the Gentile nation? No!

We can learn from the books of the Old Testament, but the commands were strictly for the nation of Israel. Even the Apostles said that the Gentiles were not to be required to keep the Mosaic Law; Jerusalem Council, 51 A.D., Acts 15

Is this vere only for israel


[h=3]Isaiah 43[/h]King James Version (KJV)

1 But now thus saith the Lord that created thee, O Jacob, and he that formed thee, O Israel, Fear not: for I have redeemed thee, I have called thee by thy name; thou art mine.
2 When thou passest through the waters, I will be with thee; and through the rivers, they shall not overflow thee: when thou walkest through the fire, thou shalt not be burned; neither shall the flame kindle upon thee.
3 For I am the Lord thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour: I gave Egypt for thy ransom, Ethiopia and Seba for thee.
4 Since thou wast precious in my sight, thou hast been honourable, and I have loved thee: therefore will I give men for thee, and people for thy life.
 
Oct 14, 2013
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#46
Does this only apply to Jacob
[h=3]Malachi 3:6[/h]King James Version (KJV)

6 For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
 
Oct 14, 2013
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#47
Who was Israel at the time Malachi was written? Was it the Gentile nation? No!

We can learn from the books of the Old Testament, but the commands were strictly for the nation of Israel. Even the Apostles said that the Gentiles were not to be required to keep the Mosaic Law; Jerusalem Council, 51 A.D., Acts 15
What is the Mosiac law ?
 

Pipp

Majestic Llamacorn
Sep 17, 2013
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Georgia
#49
Whether its law or not... Does it really hurt to give God 10 measly percent ?
 
Aug 28, 2013
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#50
Whether its law or not... Does it really hurt to give God 10 measly percent ?
That depends. Many on disability, such as myself, do not have 10% to give without placing themselves under a financial burden.

The Apostle Paul said that our giving should not be such that others are eased and the giver burdened.

2 Corinthians 8:12 (KJV) 12 For if there be first a willing mind, [it is] accepted according to that a man hath, [and] not according to that he hath not.


2 Corinthians 8:13 (KJV) 13 For [I mean] not that other men be eased, and ye burdened:
 
Oct 14, 2013
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#51
That depends. Many on disability, such as myself, do not have 10% to give without placing themselves under a financial burden.

The Apostle Paul said that our giving should not be such that others are eased and the giver burdened.

2 Corinthians 8:12 (KJV) 12 For if there be first a willing mind, [it is] accepted according to that a man hath, [and] not according to that he hath not.


2 Corinthians 8:13 (KJV) 13 For [I mean] not that other men be eased, and ye burdened:

This verse has nothing to do with tithing one can give but not happy to give just like

Ananias and Saphia who did not give cheerfully also
 
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Aug 28, 2013
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#53
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Many spiritual leaders could care less that their demanding 10% puts some under a financial strain. "Who cares, as long as I get that 10%", seems to be the general attitude of every pastor I have ever sat under who taught tithing.


The last one I sat under threatened me with curses from God if I did not tithe, telling me to tithe and not to worry about how I was going to get groceries for the month.
 
Dec 26, 2012
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#54
Whether its law or not... Does it really hurt to give God 10 measly percent ?
UMM Why then did God not require the tithe of the poor and not only that but a tithe was collected for the poor? Not only that but when the offerings were brought in the NT it was given to the poor and needy,for the most part.
 
Dec 26, 2012
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#55
Add to that the tithe was never MONEY only produce and livestock. Offerings could be money but never the tithe. The tithe could also be redeemed by money.
 
L

Linda70

Guest
#56
the first five books of the bible was known as the Las of Moses
The first five books in the Bible (Tanakh) are also known as the Torah/Pentateuch.....also called "the books of Moses," as Moses was the author, and "the book of the law," as they detail the Mosaic law
 

mystdancer50

Senior Member
Feb 26, 2012
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#57
I've said it before, in other threads, and I'll just throw it out there now. If you truly want to give Biblically, Jesus said to sell everything and give it to the poor. He said this to the rich young ruler, but He also said it to His disciples. I firmly believe in tithing. God sent His Son to die for me and I'm going to quibble over 10% and offerings besides? Nice.

We can find an excuse not to give in spades. Seems to me that the church today has more ease showing why they shouldn't tithe to the Lord rather than why they should. The Bible says to give from our increase. Does your money increase? Then tithe off your money. Pretty simple.

But, nope, we Christians must complicate every issue that we look at. I agree with those here that said, "What is 10%, really?" It's $10 off every hundred dollars. I think all of us could find ways that we are wasting the tithe. Just saying.

So, yeah, give 10% or don't give it. That's entirely up to you. Personally, I would rather give that base 10% to my King than give it to this world. I someday soon hope to be fully debt free and be able to look at it differently and not "how much should I give" but rather, "how much dare I keep".
 
J

J2theC

Guest
#58
minimart,

Wow this must be tough for you and your family. My heart goes out to you and I will pray that you receive wisdom and understanding as to what the Lord would have you do.

After reading the many posts and verses used to support statements made... I'm confused too.

As a believer, I can't help but think about 3 areas that tithing really helps me:

1.) Personal Faith - I reinforce it by putting trust in the Lord to provide a way even though I cannot see one.

2.) Growth in the Body of Christ - The gentleman above me put "To tithe after the Word of God states that the ordinances were abolished is tantamount to calling the Word of God a lie and slapping Jesus Christ in the face." Perhaps he is right, It sounds like he knows the Bible much better than me. Without tithes, how would we have Churches? How would we help others in need? How would Missions exist to spread the great news? Albeit, some churches are probably more lavish than necessary, and some pastors probably earn more than they should. If everyone stopped tithing, where would the desolate, the lost, the forsaken, the hurt and needy come to find refuge? You may say "The Church isn't a building, and neither is the Body of Christ... it is people." I agree. However the churches and structures provide organization. I believe that organization helps deliver the message and uphold values. I yields a finite place and location where sinners like myself can go and worship God with others who also are seeking the Lord. I tithe to support that message and those actions.

3.) Choosing which god to follow - I personally have served money like a god for many years. I made loads of it, and always wanted more. I didn't tithe then. I based my decisions around my financial plan. Money was as much a part of my family in any decision made as was my wife (who also is no more, by the way). I don't ever want to serve money again. It is always a 'check up' every Sunday. Call it an act of submission.

Minimart, those are my personal reasons, however I think that if you and your wife both spend time in prayer and communication with God together... the Holy Spirit will lead you in the direction he desires for you and yours.

God Bless
 
Aug 28, 2013
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#59
I've said it before, in other threads, and I'll just throw it out there now. If you truly want to give Biblically, Jesus said to sell everything and give it to the poor. He said this to the rich young ruler, but He also said it to His disciples. I firmly believe in tithing. God sent His Son to die for me and I'm going to quibble over 10% and offerings besides? Nice.

We can find an excuse not to give in spades. Seems to me that the church today has more ease showing why they shouldn't tithe to the Lord rather than why they should. The Bible says to give from our increase. Does your money increase? Then tithe off your money. Pretty simple.

But, nope, we Christians must complicate every issue that we look at. I agree with those here that said, "What is 10%, really?" It's $10 off every hundred dollars. I think all of us could find ways that we are wasting the tithe. Just saying.

So, yeah, give 10% or don't give it. That's entirely up to you. Personally, I would rather give that base 10% to my King than give it to this world. I someday soon hope to be fully debt free and be able to look at it differently and not "how much should I give" but rather, "how much dare I keep".
Where does the Bible say that money is increase? The old testament defines increase as agricultural, not money.
 
Dec 26, 2012
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#60
I wonder what a pastor would do if someone actually tithed the same way they did in the old?

Farmer: Pastor,I was really moved by your sermon on tithing and I really believe that I am suppose to do it.

Pastor: Well Praise the Lord I am so glad you saw the light

Farmer: Well Pastor I am not so sure those the board of trustees are really gonna want it.

Pastor: Of course they will it is the tithe after all.

Farmer: Well I sure hope you have the storehouse ready.

Pastor:What do we need a storehouse for?

Farmer: Trust me,wait till you see what's in the truck and trailer.

Pastor: Truck and Trailer?

Farmer: I did follow what the old testament tithe was.

Pastor: Well then what's the problem?

Farmer: Well,there is one cow,two goats,one mule,a flock of chickens,500 lbs of spinach,600 bushels of turnips,100 lbs of rutabagas,two tons of okra,50 bushels of beets,and 100 bushels of lima beans(Bumper crops you know) So I sure hope you have the place to store it all before it goes bad.