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Distinctives of Dispensationalism
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Jacob's trouble is in the past Chosen.
Daniel saw it....John saw it too, but differently.
can we go to Daniel for this?
i have it open.
we can start anywhere.
No. It has not yet happened. There have been far greater tribulations, or times of trouble since 70 AD. This if 7-0 AD was the time of jacobs trouble. God mislead us, He forgot about the other troubles which were far more severe. or he just can not accurately predict events as he claims.
Well EG, I agree that the antichrist is officially revealed when he stands in the temple of God. And I agree that he stands in the temple of God right in the middle of the time of Jacob's trouble. I believe though that the time of Jacob's trouble is approximately 7 years though.
tsk tsk....you tell me Chosen. that was the plan i thought
just scripture.
use Daniel? prolly a good place to find out what takes place in Daniel 9 and the 70th week - is Daniel.
but any other scriptures are cool.
no revived roman empire stories unless you can show that.
k
thanks.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
After (immediately after according to the hebrew) 69 weeks. Messiah is cut off.
The rest of the stuff mentioned which occurs after are longer then 7 years.
This either again God lied, He forgot what would occure after, He got his timeline wrong. or there is somethign going on between the end of the 68th and the start of the 70th.
Of course we know what that is. It is called the mystery. Because no one saw it coming.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
well it can;t be, there is no time of trouble for the 1st three years This it could not be a time of trouble.
Well EG, I am definitely considering the point you made. I will just have to study further into this by reading and studying the Scriptures further and what they say on the matter.
hi EG;
"there is something going on between the end of the 68th and the start of the 70th."< you mean the 69th?
okay...so the something that is going on, that involves the 2000 year+ gap is the Mystery.
that's what stopped the prophetic clock - for Israel.
where does it spell that out in scripture?
the big gap thing? not in Daniel.
so where?
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1still_waters
Guest
Can someone post the verse that states the term "Jacob's trouble"?
I'm amazed how those two words have been isolated, seized upon, extracted, and transformed into this living breathing doctrinal behemoth that almost has a life of its own. I mean so many other things in scripture exist on their own, very proportional to the overall picture of scripture. Yet these two little words "Jacob's trouble" are treated with such hyper-focus, and almost hysteria by some, that it leaves me scratching my head, wondering, sup wif dat?
I'm amazed how those two words have been isolated, seized upon, extracted, and transformed into this living breathing doctrinal behemoth that almost has a life of its own. I mean so many other things in scripture exist on their own, very proportional to the overall picture of scripture. Yet these two little words "Jacob's trouble" are treated with such hyper-focus, and almost hysteria by some, that it leaves me scratching my head, wondering, sup wif dat?
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
just understand when the trouble/tribulation occurs. This is the time of tribulation. Which is only part of the 7 years.
?
as in - it means the next day kinda thing?
or immediately following the 69th week is the cutting off week (the 70th)?
either way, you still have Jesus cut off sometime into the 70th week.
so is your gap, or clock stop, 3.5 years of time reserved for the future? or 7 years?
cuz the 7 years has to come from the 70th week, right? that's where we get that from.
what i am not clear on is why God stopped the clock...is it because Jesus was cut off instead of being made King, and that's when God turned His attention to the Mystery?
where is any of that written?
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. - Daniel 9:27 (King James Bible)
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. - Matthew 24:14-21 (King James Bible)
13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
15 And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house:
16 And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment.
17 But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
18 And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter.
19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be. - Mark 13:13-19 (King James Bible)
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. - 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 (King James Bible)
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Where did you get the 68th week? The messiah is cut off after the 69th week.
and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined.
This is what happens.
The end of what? this is what must be determined. Nothing ended in 70 AD. thus it can not be the end.
Its all over daniel. Chapter 2. Chapter 7 Chapter 9. Figure out what the end is, and you will figure out what the gap is.
Hint. The end is the time of the gentile. As spoken of in Daniel 2 and 7 . Which is not yet ended. It is also mentioned in roms 11.
7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble, but he shall be saved out of it.- Jeremiah 30:7 (King James Bible)
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Jer 30 [SUP]7 [/SUP]Alas! For that day is great, So that none is like it; And it is the time of Jacob’s trouble, But he shall be saved out of it.
In my opinion, not precisely.
A little lipstick has been put on the pig:
"most consistently interprets the Bible literally" - should be most inconsistently interprets the Bible, in light of the whole Bible
"allows us to understand" - i.e, allows us a framework for a contra-Biblical doctrine
"more important is God's glory" - that's the real kicker.
The fact is: in dispensationalism "more important is Israel's glory."
Dispensationalism shifts the focus, emphasis and purpose of God from the excellence
of his plan in Christ Jesus and his body, the Church of believing Jews and Gentiles
(which includes the OT saints--Heb 11:39-40, 12:22-24; Rev 21;12-14),
to the excellence of his supposed plan for a future restoration of Israel.
The land promise to the forefathers has been completely fulfilled in the
possession of the land under Joshua (Josh 21:43-45) and its full occupation
under Solomon (1Kgs 4:21, 24-25).
Heb 11:8-16 explains that the title to an "everlasting possession" (Ge 17:8, 48:4)
was a title to heavenly land (Heb 11: 10, 16), not to earthly land.
Consequently, dispensationalism sees the promise to Abraham of Ge 12:3 (to be
a blessing to all nations) to be fulfilled in a future restoration of Israel, rather than
in the promised Seed (Ge 3:15), Jesus Christ!
It removes Jesus Christ from the center of God's plan and replaces him with Israel.
The article falls way short of being accurate.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
[SUP]8 [/SUP]‘For it shall come to pass in that day,’
Says the Lord of hosts,
‘That I will break his yoke from your neck,
And will burst your bonds;
Foreigners shall no more enslave them.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But they shall serve the Lord their God,
And David their king,
Whom I will raise up for them.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]‘Therefore do not fear, O My servant Jacob,’ says the Lord,
‘Nor be dismayed, O Israel;
For behold, I will save you from afar,
And your seed from the land of their captivity.
Jacob shall return, have rest and be quiet,
And no one shall make him afraid.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For I am with you,’ says the Lord, ‘to save you;
Though I make a full end of all nations where I have scattered you,
Yet I will not make a complete end of you.
But I will correct you in justice,
And will not let you go altogether unpunished.’
like....D'OH!
good idea.
i know one of the words means Jacob.
which is Israel.
i know they had a lot of trouble when Jesus came and the city and the people were eventually destroyed.
hmmm...Jacob's Trouble.
Jeremiah 30:7
How awful that day will be! No other will be like it. It will be a time of trouble for Jacob, but he will be saved out of it.
now i reckon it would be good to see about Jeremiah and what he was doing and where he was and what he was saying.
didn't Daniel get stirred up by Jeremiah's prophecy?
but i'm off for dinner, as well.
hope i can think and use chopsticks at the same time
Also Zone, if you are kind of wondering how I get the 3.5 years, well here is the timing which is mentioned in the book of Revelation:
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. - Revelation 11:3 (King James Bible)
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. - Revelation 12:6-9 (King James Bible)
1,260 days = 3.5 years.
Notice that in the middle of Daniel's 70th week is when Satan and his angels are cast out of Heaven.
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. - Revelation 11:3 (King James Bible)
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. - Revelation 12:6-9 (King James Bible)
1,260 days = 3.5 years.
Notice that in the middle of Daniel's 70th week is when Satan and his angels are cast out of Heaven.