What Laws are still valid to christians

[Isdaniel]

You're right; Colossians is not speaking only of the Ten Commandments; is talking about the entirety of the Law

.

In the Garden, what did Satan use against Adam and Eve? What was his only weapon?

The only law in place at the time; do not eat of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.

The Law is what stands against mankind, as it condemns because of sin.

Colossians 2:13-15
13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. 15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

​

For those in Christ, the Law - all of it - was cancelled at the Cross.

We walk in Grace and are led by the Spirit:

Galatians 5:18
If you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.​

-JGIG

I am not agreeing with what you said .

The ten Commandments were not nailed to the cross nor was it our sins
What was nailed to the cross was the ceremonial laws

 

[john832]

You're right; Colossians is not speaking only of the Ten Commandments; is talking about the entirety of the Law

.

In the Garden, what did Satan use against Adam and Eve? What was his only weapon?

The only law in place at the time; do not eat of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.

The Law is what stands against mankind, as it condemns because of sin.

Colossians 2:13-15
13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. 15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

​

For those in Christ, the Law - all of it - was cancelled at the Cross.

We walk in Grace and are led by the Spirit:

Galatians 5:18
If you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.​

-JGIG

OK, what prevents one from adultery? Taking God's name in vain? Lying? After all there is no Law.

 

[john832]

Did not God always take vengence ?

Does He take a direct and active part in the lives of the unconverted to meet justice out for them?

 

[Isdaniel]

[h=2]Sabbath days

We read in Colossians 2:14-17 that abolition of these sabbath days that were in the law and that enjoined meat offerings, drink offerings, new moons, and festivals: "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; ... let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a holyday [, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days, which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.[/h]

 

[Isdaniel]

Does He take a direct and active part in the lives of the unconverted to meet justice out for them?

Psalm 10:18 To judge the fatherless and the oppressed, that the man of the earth may no more oppress.

Psalm 68:5 A father of the fatherless, and a judge of the widows, is God in his holy habitation

 

[Isdaniel]

Does He take a direct and active part in the lives of the unconverted to meet justice out for them?

if a child of God chops up an unbeliever without cause will God not take vengence for the unbeliever ?

 

[john832]

Could you explain this
Atonement - Twofold- the binding of Satan and the world finally being made at one with God when the source of all sin and rebellion is removed

Sure.

Lev 16:7 And he shall take the two goats, and present them before the LORD at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.
Lev 16:8 And Aaron shall cast lots upon the two goats; one lot for the LORD, and the other lot for the scapegoat.
Lev 16:9 And Aaron shall bring the goat upon which the LORD'S lot fell, and offer him for a sin offering.
Lev 16:10 But the goat, on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the LORD, to make an atonement with him, and to let him go for a scapegoat into the wilderness.

Two goats, one for a sin offering and one for the Azazel to be released in the wilderness.

Lev 16:15 Then shall he kill the goat of the sin offering, that is for the people, and bring his blood within the vail, and do with that blood as he did with the blood of the bullock, and sprinkle it upon the mercy seat, and before the mercy seat:
Lev 16:16 And he shall make an atonement for the holy place, because of the uncleanness of the children of Israel, and because of their transgressions in all their sins: and so shall he do for the tabernacle of the congregation, that remaineth among them in the midst of their uncleanness.

Here is the picture of Christ, the perfect sacrifice, that atones for our sins to allow us to be one with Him.

Lev 16:20 And when he hath made an end of reconciling the holy place, and the tabernacle of the congregation, and the altar, he shall bring the live goat:
Lev 16:21 And Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness:
Lev 16:22 And the goat shall bear upon him all their iniquities unto a land not inhabited: and he shall let go the goat in the wilderness.

Notice this second goat has the sins of the people placed on his head. It bears the responsibility for them. It is not sacrificed, but released alive in the wilderness. This second goat is the shadow of the author of sin, Satan the Devil. He is not killed but rather removed from the presence of God and the people.

Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

For the world to become at one with God, the prince of the power of the air has to be removed so that he cannot influence man for evil...

Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

because he is the great deciever...

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Here is how he deceives...

2Co 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
2Co 11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

 

[Isdaniel]

here was nothing in the Ten Commandment

The law about meats, drinks, new moons, sabbath days (plural), or feast days. All these were in the law which the Lord told Moses to command to the people. . Paul says plainly that he is speaking of "sabbath days which are a shadow of things to come,"

 

[JGIG]

This is why the were a necessity for a change of the Law...

Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Now what Law had to be changed?

Heb 7:5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:
Heb 7:6 But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.
Heb 7:7 And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.
Heb 7:8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.
Heb 7:9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.
Heb 7:10 For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.
Heb 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

And here is that Law...

Num 18:1 And the LORD said unto Aaron, Thou and thy sons and thy father's house with thee shall bear the iniquity of the sanctuary: and thou and thy sons with thee shall bear the iniquity of your priesthood.
Num 18:2 And thy brethren also of the tribe of Levi, the tribe of thy father, bring thou with thee, that they may be joined unto thee, and minister unto thee: but thou and thy sons with thee shall minister before the tabernacle of witness.
Num 18:3 And they shall keep thy charge, and the charge of all the tabernacle: only they shall not come nigh the vessels of the sanctuary and the altar, that neither they, nor ye also, die.
Num 18:4 And they shall be joined unto thee, and keep the charge of the tabernacle of the congregation, for all the service of the tabernacle: and a stranger shall not come nigh unto you.
Num 18:5 And ye shall keep the charge of the sanctuary, and the charge of the altar: that there be no wrath any more upon the children of Israel.
Num 18:6 And I, behold, I have taken your brethren the Levites from among the children of Israel: to you they are given as a gift for the LORD, to do the service of the tabernacle of the congregation.

The Law that had to be changed was the Law that only permitted Levites to do the service of God. Christ will not violate even the slightest yod (iota) of His Law. Christ was the one which gave that Law in Num 18 to Moses.

You're asserting that the Law is able to be broken up into sections; Scripture does not support that notion.

Hebrews 7:12 says that there was a change OF the Law, not IN the Law.

Melcheizedek was High Priest over the Covenant of Grace with Abraham; the Law (what we term the Old Covenant) was not given until 430 years later.

The New Covenant in Christ is the fulfillment of the Covenant of Grace - the Reality in Christ replaces the shadow (promise) in which Abraham walked.

​

Hebrews 5:5-6​

5 So also Christ did not exalt himself to be made a high priest, but was appointed by him who said to him,
“You are my Son,
today I have begotten you”;

6 as he says also in another place,

“You are a priest forever,
after the order of Melchizedek.”


Hebrews 7:11-22
11 If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood—and indeed the law given to the people established that priesthood—why was there still need for another priest to come, one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron? 12 For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also.

13 He of whom these things are said belonged to a different tribe, and no one from that tribe has ever served at the altar. 14 For it is clear that our Lord descended from Judah, and in regard to that tribe Moses said nothing about priests.

15 And what we have said is even more clear if another priest like Melchizedek appears, 16 one who has become a priest not on the basis of a regulation as to his ancestry but on the basis of the power of an indestructible life. 17 For it is declared:

“You are a priest forever,
in the order of Melchizedek.”


18 The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless 19 (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.

20 And it was not without an oath! Others became priests without any oath, 21 but he became a priest with an oath when God said to him:

“The Lord has sworn
and will not change his mind:
‘You are a priest forever.’”


22 Because of this oath, Jesus has become the guarantor of a better covenant.
​

So we can see that it's not just certain laws within the Old Covenant that were changed, but a better covenant altogether which was introduced, and is how we now draw near to God.

-JGIG

 

[john832]

if a child of God chops up an unbeliever without cause will God not take vengence for the unbeliever ?

Adn what vengeance does God take on unbelievers who chop up unbeleivers?

 

[john832]

You're asserting that the Law is able to be broken up into sections; Scripture does not support that notion.

Hebrews 7:12 says that there was a change OF the Law, not IN the Law.

Melcheizedek was High Priest over the Covenant of Grace with Abraham; the Law (what we term the Old Covenant) was not given until 430 years later.

The New Covenant in Christ is the fulfillment of the Covenant of Grace - the Reality in Christ replaces the shadow (promise) in which Abraham walked.

Hebrews 5:5-6​

5 So also Christ did not exalt himself to be made a high priest, but was appointed by him who said to him,
“You are my Son,
today I have begotten you”;

6 as he says also in another place,

“You are a priest forever,
after the order of Melchizedek.”


Hebrews 7:11-22
11 If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood—and indeed the law given to the people established that priesthood—why was there still need for another priest to come, one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron? 12 For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also.

13 He of whom these things are said belonged to a different tribe, and no one from that tribe has ever served at the altar. 14 For it is clear that our Lord descended from Judah, and in regard to that tribe Moses said nothing about priests.

15 And what we have said is even more clear if another priest like Melchizedek appears, 16 one who has become a priest not on the basis of a regulation as to his ancestry but on the basis of the power of an indestructible life. 17 For it is declared:

“You are a priest forever,
in the order of Melchizedek.”


18 The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless 19 (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.

20 And it was not without an oath! Others became priests without any oath, 21 but he became a priest with an oath when God said to him:

“The Lord has sworn
and will not change his mind:
‘You are a priest forever.’”


22 Because of this oath, Jesus has become the guarantor of a better covenant.



So we can see that it's not just certain laws within the Old Covenant that were changed, but a better covenant altogether which was introduced, and is how we now draw near to God.

-JGIG

You apparently are ignorant of the fact that the Ten Commandments were placed inside the Ark while the Law of Moses was placed in a side pocket outside Ark.

 

[Isdaniel]

Sure.

Lev 16:7 And he shall take the two goats, and present them before the LORD at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.
Lev 16:8 And Aaron shall cast lots upon the two goats; one lot for the LORD, and the other lot for the scapegoat.
Lev 16:9 And Aaron shall bring the goat upon which the LORD'S lot fell, and offer him for a sin offering.
Lev 16:10 But the goat, on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the LORD, to make an atonement with him, and to let him go for a scapegoat into the wilderness.

Two goats, one for a sin offering and one for the Azazel to be released in the wilderness.

Lev 16:15 Then shall he kill the goat of the sin offering, that is for the people, and bring his blood within the vail, and do with that blood as he did with the blood of the bullock, and sprinkle it upon the mercy seat, and before the mercy seat:
Lev 16:16 And he shall make an atonement for the holy place, because of the uncleanness of the children of Israel, and because of their transgressions in all their sins: and so shall he do for the tabernacle of the congregation, that remaineth among them in the midst of their uncleanness.

Here is the picture of Christ, the perfect sacrifice, that atones for our sins to allow us to be one with Him.

Lev 16:20 And when he hath made an end of reconciling the holy place, and the tabernacle of the congregation, and the altar, he shall bring the live goat:
Lev 16:21 And Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness:
Lev 16:22 And the goat shall bear upon him all their iniquities unto a land not inhabited: and he shall let go the goat in the wilderness.

Notice this second goat has the sins of the people placed on his head. It bears the responsibility for them. It is not sacrificed, but released alive in the wilderness. This second goat is the shadow of the author of sin, Satan the Devil. He is not killed but rather removed from the presence of God and the people.

Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

For the world to become at one with God, the prince of the power of the air has to be removed so that he cannot influence man for evil...

Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

because he is the great deciever...

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

How can two sacrifices without blemish and one represent the devil ? This is SDA teaching

 

[john832]

here was nothing in the Ten Commandment

The law about meats, drinks, new moons, sabbath days (plural), or feast days. All these were in the law which the Lord told Moses to command to the people. . Paul says plainly that he is speaking of "sabbath days which are a shadow of things to come,"

So? The laws of clean and unclean were in effect prior to Noah...

Gen 7:1 And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.
Gen 7:2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.

Why do you suppose the Holydays were not observed? Actually, the Passover was observed prior to Mt. Sinai by almost two months. Why do you suppose this was the first time anyone ever heard of them?

How do you separate the Sabbath from the Feast Days?

Lev 23:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
Lev 23:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts.
Lev 23:3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.
Lev 23:4 These are the feasts of the LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.

The Sabbath is one of the Feast Days.

 

[john832]

How can two sacrifices without blemish and one represent the devil ? This is SDA teaching

I am definitely not an SDA, I disagree with a great deal of their teaching. Anyhoo, show me where the goat that is led away and released ALIVE in the wilderness dies for the sins of the world. It doesn't. It shows that to have true atonement with God, the author of sin...

Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

The Devil was the author of sin. He is also responsible for bringing sin to mankind. We are responsible for our sins, but the author is the Devil. He must be removed for the world to become at one with God.

 

[Isdaniel]

If, as Seventh-day Adventists claim, the scapegoat is a figure of Satan then we are faced with a lot of problems. How can the high priest confess his sins and the sins of Israel over Satan? Remember the scapegoat is for atonement for Israel to God.

Can God’s people make atonement with Satan? NO.

Will Satan forgive them and remove their sins? NO.

 

[JGIG]

You apparently are ignorant of the fact that the Ten Commandments were placed inside the Ark while the Law of Moses was placed in a side pocket outside Ark.

2 Corinthians 3:7-11
7 Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses' face because of its glory, which was being brought to an end, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit have even more glory? 9 For if there was glory in the ministry of condemnation, the ministry of righteousness must far exceed it in glory. 10 Indeed, in this case, what once had glory has come to have no glory at all, because of the glory that surpasses it. 11 For if what was being brought to an end came with glory, much more will what is permanent have glory.
​

You apparently are ignorant either of the existence of 2 Corinthians 3 or that the Ten Commandments were carved in letters on stone.

Now I don't like to be snarky, but you don't know me, and the attitude is just not necessary. I've arrived at my views fully informed and well-studied. If your intent is truly to teach/inform, throwing the 'you're ignorant' card right out of the gate is not the way to do it. It makes one think that you're 'apparently arrogant'

.

-JGIG

​

 

[Isdaniel]

I am definitely not an SDA, I disagree with a great deal of their teaching. Anyhoo, show me where the goat that is led away and released ALIVE in the wilderness dies for the sins of the world. It doesn't. It shows that to have true atonement with God, the author of sin...

Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

The Devil was the author of sin. He is also responsible for bringing sin to mankind. We are responsible for our sins, but the author is the Devil. He must be removed for the world to become at one with God.

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The two goats that were chosen for a sin offering had to be without defects for the atonement to God. Lev. 4:3,23,28,32. We ask this question, could the scapegoat without defects be a representation of Satan? NO. Satan is far from being without defects. He is a liar and a murder from the beginning. Only a goat without defects could represent Christ.[/FONT]

 

[john832]

How can two sacrifices without blemish and one represent the devil ? This is SDA teaching

Oh and why was the Azael goat to be without blemish?

Eze 28:12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
Eze 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
Eze 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

But after iniquity (sin) entered then he became the author...

Lev 16:21 And Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness:

The sins are placed squarely on his head.

 

[Isdaniel]

I am definitely not an SDA, I disagree with a great deal of their teaching. Anyhoo, show me where the goat that is led away and released ALIVE in the wilderness dies for the sins of the world. It doesn't. It shows that to have true atonement with God, the author of sin...

Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

The Devil was the author of sin. He is also responsible for bringing sin to mankind. We are responsible for our sins, but the author is the Devil. He must be removed for the world to become at one with God.

Sure me in the bile where it stayed alive for a 1000yrs roaming the wilderness

 

[john832]

How can two sacrifices without blemish and one represent the devil ? This is SDA teaching

Hmmm, you apparently do not know that the SDAs believe the same thing you do, they believe the Feast Days are done away. They do not keep them either.