What Laws are still valid to christians

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homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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Are you a part of the Covenant ratified in Yahshua's blood? If so how can you be in such oppisition to the thing that is written on the hearts of those who are a part of Yahweh's Salvation to mankind?

Yeremyah 31:33, "After those days, says Yahweh: I will put My Law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; minds, and I will be their Father, and they will be My people."
8451. torah
torah: direction, instruction, law
Original Word: תּוֹרָה
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: torah
Phonetic Spelling: (to-raw')
Short Definition: law
Sorry but which tribe was Christ from? Levites or Judah?
Is there anyone that can be a priest outside of the Levite tribe according to Law?
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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The 7th day sabbath was not hand writing of ordinances but the annual sabbath were
From Dr. Robert Thiel...

What Was Nailed to the Cross?

Since all scripture is given by the inspiration of God so that Christians should be complete (2 Timothy 3:16-17), it is wise to look at more than one verse to determine what, for example, was nailed to the cross.

There is only one only scripture that uses the "nailed it to the cross" expression (AV/NKJ), it is Colossians 2:13-14, in which Paul states,


"And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross".

We will look at what it does and does not say.

First though, let's look at what the last chapter of the last book of the Bible teaches:


"Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city" (Revelation 22:14, NKJV throughout unless otherwise noted).

Since it is only "those who do His commandments...{who} have the right to enter...the city" (Revelation 22:14), the ten commandments could not be "contrary to us". Actually, it is only those who will not keep the ten commandments that are denied access. Revelation specifically shows that those who break one of at least four of the ten commandments will be outside God's city (Revelation 22:15).

So then, if the ten commandments were not "nailed to the cross," what was?

Look again at what the Bible actually says (two translations):


14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross (Colossians 2:14, NKJV)

14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.. (Colossians 2:14, NASB)

The handwriting of requirements (often also called the hand-writing of ordinances) or certificate of debt was wiped away and nailed to the cross.

Which requirements were wiped out?

Please understand that the expression "the handwriting of requirements" (cheirógrafon toís dógmasin) is a Greek legal expression that signifies the penalty which a lawbreaker had to pay--it does not signify the laws that are to be obeyed--only the penalty. It is only through the acceptance of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ that the penalty was wiped out ("the handwriting of requirements"). But only the penalty, not the law!

Even some Protestant commentators realize this is so. Notice what Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible states about Colossians 2:14:


Whatever was in force against us is taken out of the way. He has obtained for us a legal discharge from the hand-writing of ordinances, which was against us (v. 14), which may be understood,

1. Of that obligation to punishment in which consists the guilt of sin. The curse of the law is the hand-writing against us, like the hand-writing on Belshazzar's wall. Cursed is every one who continues not in every thing. This was a hand-writing which was against us, and contrary to us; for it threatened our eternal ruin. This was removed when he redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us, Gal 3:13. (from Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible: New Modern Edition, Electronic Database. Copyright (c) 1991 by Hendrickson Publishers, Inc.).

In addition, let us look at the Greek term exaleipho translated as "wiped out" in Colossians 2:14:


NT:1813
exaleipho (ex-al-i'-fo); from NT:1537 and NT:218; to smear out, i.e. obliterate (erase tears, figuratively, pardon sin) (Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International Bible Translators, Inc.)


In other words, exaleipho has to do with wiping out sin. This is also confirmed in Acts 3:19 where Peter also uses the term exaleipho, which is translated as "blotted out" below:


19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord.

Hence, it is sin and the related penalties that are to be blotted or wiped out. And the penalties could vary from "being unclean to the evening" (Leviticus 11:24-28) to making an offering (Leviticus 5:5-6) to being "cut off from his people" (Leviticus 7:27) to the death penalty (Exodus 31:14).

This is also confirmed elsewhere in the New Testament:


13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (Galatians 3:13).

The curse of the law is related to the penalty. And Jesus paid it.


But what about the law of God? Was the law of God to be wiped out?

Remember that the Bible clearly teaches that sin is lawlessness:


Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. (I John 3:4-5).

Notice that Paul wrote:


Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? (Romans 6:1-2).

Thus the New Testament makes clear that the law of God continues, thus it was not nailed to the cross or somehow wiped out.

The Bible, however, also shows that the requirements of the Levitical priesthood (Hebrews 9:1,6-10) sometimes called the law, which were part of the penalty of sin, were blotted out.

And why?


"For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins...By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus once for all" (Hebrews 10:4,10).

Jesus' one sacrifice was and is sufficient--we do not have to sacrifice animals any more!

Another requirement (which is related) would be the death penalty of sin, as "the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Romans 6:23) or other specific ceremonial penalties associated with the Old Testament statutes (such as making a sin offering, being put outside the camp, or washing).

For those who wish to look them up, perhaps most of the statutes in the Old Testament are listed in the following chapters: Exodus 20-24; Leviticus 16-27; Numbers 18-19, 27-30, 35-36; and Deuteronomy 12-18.
 
Oct 14, 2013
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Huh?

Lev 23:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
Lev 23:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts.
Lev 23:3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.
Lev 23:4 These are the feasts of the LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.

Starting with verse 1, show me the handwriting of ordinances here. God spoke directly saying that what followed were HIS Feasts.
Do you take passover with bitter herbs still ? Why or Why not

Do you roast a lamb still for passover ?
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
Sorry but which tribe was Christ from? Levites or Judah?
Is there anyone that can be a priest outside of the Levite tribe according to Law?
This is why the were a necessity for a change of the Law...

Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Now what Law had to be changed?

Heb 7:5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:
Heb 7:6 But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.
Heb 7:7 And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.
Heb 7:8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.
Heb 7:9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.
Heb 7:10 For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.
Heb 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

And here is that Law...

Num 18:1 And the LORD said unto Aaron, Thou and thy sons and thy father's house with thee shall bear the iniquity of the sanctuary: and thou and thy sons with thee shall bear the iniquity of your priesthood.
Num 18:2 And thy brethren also of the tribe of Levi, the tribe of thy father, bring thou with thee, that they may be joined unto thee, and minister unto thee: but thou and thy sons with thee shall minister before the tabernacle of witness.
Num 18:3 And they shall keep thy charge, and the charge of all the tabernacle: only they shall not come nigh the vessels of the sanctuary and the altar, that neither they, nor ye also, die.
Num 18:4 And they shall be joined unto thee, and keep the charge of the tabernacle of the congregation, for all the service of the tabernacle: and a stranger shall not come nigh unto you.
Num 18:5 And ye shall keep the charge of the sanctuary, and the charge of the altar: that there be no wrath any more upon the children of Israel.
Num 18:6 And I, behold, I have taken your brethren the Levites from among the children of Israel: to you they are given as a gift for the LORD, to do the service of the tabernacle of the congregation.

The Law that had to be changed was the Law that only permitted Levites to do the service of God. Christ will not violate even the slightest yod (iota) of His Law. Christ was the one which gave that Law in Num 18 to Moses.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,254
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Hmmm, and yet the very words of Christ say...

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
Again if read in context, one will see that no flesh is able to be perfect, even that rich man in Matt. 19 walked away sad, who could not give up world, yet obeyed the commandments from birth on and the disciples who watched this man walk away sad, saw no way to get to heaven by any works. and thus asked Christ how then can anyone make it to heaven? I mean in other chapters they heard Christ say if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off, better for part of you to enter heaven than all of you go to hell. The same with the eye gouge it out. Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I would say I would end up being a torso, all limbs cut off, eyes gouged out, tongue cut out. That is what under the Law is perfect the Law is yet flesh is not and can't be perfect as the Law is.
therefor what is it we need, new life right, in what? The Spirit of God right?
What did Christ come to do? And what does the thief still try to do?
John 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly
 
Oct 14, 2013
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From Dr. Robert Thiel...

What Was Nailed to the Cross?

Since all scripture is given by the inspiration of God so that Christians should be complete (2 Timothy 3:16-17), it is wise to look at more than one verse to determine what, for example, was nailed to the cross.

There is only one only scripture that uses the "nailed it to the cross" expression (AV/NKJ), it is Colossians 2:13-14, in which Paul states,


"And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross".

We will look at what it does and does not say.

First though, let's look at what the last chapter of the last book of the Bible teaches:


"Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city" (Revelation 22:14, NKJV throughout unless otherwise noted).

Since it is only "those who do His commandments...{who} have the right to enter...the city" (Revelation 22:14), the ten commandments could not be "contrary to us". Actually, it is only those who will not keep the ten commandments that are denied access. Revelation specifically shows that those who break one of at least four of the ten commandments will be outside God's city (Revelation 22:15).

So then, if the ten commandments were not "nailed to the cross," what was?

Look again at what the Bible actually says (two translations):


14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross (Colossians 2:14, NKJV)

14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.. (Colossians 2:14, NASB)

The handwriting of requirements (often also called the hand-writing of ordinances) or certificate of debt was wiped away and nailed to the cross.

Which requirements were wiped out?

Please understand that the expression "the handwriting of requirements" (cheirógrafon toís dógmasin) is a Greek legal expression that signifies the penalty which a lawbreaker had to pay--it does not signify the laws that are to be obeyed--only the penalty. It is only through the acceptance of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ that the penalty was wiped out ("the handwriting of requirements"). But only the penalty, not the law!

Even some Protestant commentators realize this is so. Notice what Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible states about Colossians 2:14:


Whatever was in force against us is taken out of the way. He has obtained for us a legal discharge from the hand-writing of ordinances, which was against us (v. 14), which may be understood,

1. Of that obligation to punishment in which consists the guilt of sin. The curse of the law is the hand-writing against us, like the hand-writing on Belshazzar's wall. Cursed is every one who continues not in every thing. This was a hand-writing which was against us, and contrary to us; for it threatened our eternal ruin. This was removed when he redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us, Gal 3:13. (from Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible: New Modern Edition, Electronic Database. Copyright (c) 1991 by Hendrickson Publishers, Inc.).

In addition, let us look at the Greek term exaleipho translated as "wiped out" in Colossians 2:14:


NT:1813
exaleipho (ex-al-i'-fo); from NT:1537 and NT:218; to smear out, i.e. obliterate (erase tears, figuratively, pardon sin) (Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International Bible Translators, Inc.)


In other words, exaleipho has to do with wiping out sin. This is also confirmed in Acts 3:19 where Peter also uses the term exaleipho, which is translated as "blotted out" below:


19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord.

Hence, it is sin and the related penalties that are to be blotted or wiped out. And the penalties could vary from "being unclean to the evening" (Leviticus 11:24-28) to making an offering (Leviticus 5:5-6) to being "cut off from his people" (Leviticus 7:27) to the death penalty (Exodus 31:14).

This is also confirmed elsewhere in the New Testament:


13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (Galatians 3:13).

The curse of the law is related to the penalty. And Jesus paid it.


But what about the law of God? Was the law of God to be wiped out?

Remember that the Bible clearly teaches that sin is lawlessness:


Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. (I John 3:4-5).

Notice that Paul wrote:


Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? (Romans 6:1-2).

Thus the New Testament makes clear that the law of God continues, thus it was not nailed to the cross or somehow wiped out.

The Bible, however, also shows that the requirements of the Levitical priesthood (Hebrews 9:1,6-10) sometimes called the law, which were part of the penalty of sin, were blotted out.

And why?


"For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins...By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus once for all" (Hebrews 10:4,10).

Jesus' one sacrifice was and is sufficient--we do not have to sacrifice animals any more!

Another requirement (which is related) would be the death penalty of sin, as "the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Romans 6:23) or other specific ceremonial penalties associated with the Old Testament statutes (such as making a sin offering, being put outside the camp, or washing).

For those who wish to look them up, perhaps most of the statutes in the Old Testament are listed in the following chapters: Exodus 20-24; Leviticus 16-27; Numbers 18-19, 27-30, 35-36; and Deuteronomy 12-18.
Colosians is not speaking about the ten commandments being nailed to the cross and i know that but to say that it is talking about sin is incorrect also .
 
Oct 14, 2013
4,750
21
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Huh?

Lev 23:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
Lev 23:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts.
Lev 23:3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.
Lev 23:4 These are the feasts of the LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.

Starting with verse 1, show me the handwriting of ordinances here. God spoke directly saying that what followed were HIS Feasts.
Do you keep the feast days annual sabbaths by the offerings that are required ? Eg meat and drink offerings etc Why or Why Not
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
Do you take passover with bitter herbs still ? Why or Why not
No, that would be in direct contrast to the New Testament Passover symbols...

Luk 22:15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:
Luk 22:16 For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.
Luk 22:17 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves:
Luk 22:18 For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.
Luk 22:19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.
Luk 22:20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.

Haven't you read that Christ changed the symbols to Unleavened Bread and Wine?

Do you roast a lamb still for passover ?
No, same verse and many others...

Mat 26:26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.
Mat 26:27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Mar 14:22 And as they did eat, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and brake it, and gave to them, and said, Take, eat: this is my body.
Mar 14:23 And he took the cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them: and they all drank of it.
Mar 14:24 And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many.

Joh_6:32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
Joh_6:33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
Joh_6:34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.
Joh_6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
Joh_6:41 The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.
Joh_6:48 I am that bread of life.
Joh_6:50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
Joh_6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

Christ is the Passover...

1Co 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
1Co 5:8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

And notice that Paul says "Therefore let us keep the feast" and then continues on to show he was speaking of the Days of Unleavened Bread.

1Co 11:23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:
1Co 11:24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
1Co 11:25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
1Co 11:26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

Paul admonishes us to keep the Passover with the New Testament Passover symbols that Christ instituted on Passover, April 25, 31AD.
 
Oct 14, 2013
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No, that would be in direct contrast to the New Testament Passover symbols...

Luk 22:15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:
Luk 22:16 For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.
Luk 22:17 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves:
Luk 22:18 For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.
Luk 22:19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.
Luk 22:20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.

Haven't you read that Christ changed the symbols to Unleavened Bread and Wine?



No, same verse and many others...

Mat 26:26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.
Mat 26:27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Mar 14:22 And as they did eat, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and brake it, and gave to them, and said, Take, eat: this is my body.
Mar 14:23 And he took the cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them: and they all drank of it.
Mar 14:24 And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many.

Joh_6:32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
Joh_6:33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
Joh_6:34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.
Joh_6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
Joh_6:41 The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.
Joh_6:48 I am that bread of life.
Joh_6:50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
Joh_6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

Christ is the Passover...

1Co 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
1Co 5:8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

And notice that Paul says "Therefore let us keep the feast" and then continues on to show he was speaking of the Days of Unleavened Bread.

1Co 11:23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:
1Co 11:24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
1Co 11:25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
1Co 11:26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

Paul admonishes us to keep the Passover with the New Testament Passover symbols that Christ instituted on Passover, April 25, 31AD.
What were the annual sabbaths a sybolism for ?
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
Colosians is not speaking about the ten commandments being nailed to the cross and i know that but to say that it is talking about sin is incorrect also .
The Greek says that it is the "cheirógrafon toís dógmasin" which is the penalty for sin. Why would Christ remove some of the Law in violation of His earlier statements...

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Luk 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

So which is it? All the Law or part or none? According to Christ, we cannot have it both ways. What does occur in the New Covenant is that the application is changed. Christ is the perfect sacrifice for sin...

Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
Heb 10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
Heb 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

The sacrifices were never meant to take away sin, they were a reminder that the wages of sin is death. Sin requires blood...

Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

But the blood of bulls and goats was not sufficient. The blood of bulls and goats was...

Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

We no longer need these sacrifices to remind us that our sin requires the shedding of blood. Christ came and shed His blood. The sacrifices were a shadow, a schoolmaster, that looked forward to Christ.
 
Oct 14, 2013
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The Greek says that it is the "cheirógrafon toís dógmasin" which is the penalty for sin. Why would Christ remove some of the Law in violation of His earlier statements...

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Luk 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

So which is it? All the Law or part or none? According to Christ, we cannot have it both ways. What does occur in the New Covenant is that the application is changed. Christ is the perfect sacrifice for sin...

Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
Heb 10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
Heb 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

The sacrifices were never meant to take away sin, they were a reminder that the wages of sin is death. Sin requires blood...

Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

But the blood of bulls and goats was not sufficient. The blood of bulls and goats was...

Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

We no longer need these sacrifices to remind us that our sin requires the shedding of blood. Christ came and shed His blood. The sacrifices were a shadow, a schoolmaster, that looked forward to Christ.
does the greek only have one meaning as you implied ? which is debt
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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What were the annual sabbaths a sybolism for ?
Passover - the shadow of the sacrifice of Christ
Days of Unleavened Bread - putting out sin from our lives
Wave Sheaf - the ascension and presentation of Christ as our sacrifice to the Father
Pentecost - Twofold - the giving of the Holy Spirit and the harvesting of the firstfruits
Trumpets - The trumpet plagues and Christ's return on the seventh trump
Atonement - Twofold- the binding of Satan and the world finally being made at one with God when the source of all sin and rebellion is removed
Tabernacles - the glorious Millenial reign of Christ
The Last Great Day - the Great White Throne Judgment.

The Feast Days are the shadow of the 7000 year plan of God.
 

JGIG

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2013
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Are you a part of the Covenant ratified in Yahshua's blood? If so how can you be in such oppisition to the thing that is written on the hearts of those who are a part of Yahweh's Salvation to mankind?

Yeremyah 31:33, "After those days, says Yahweh: I will put My Law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; minds, and I will be their Father, and they will be My people."

8451. torah

torah: direction, instruction, law

Original Word: תּוֹרָה
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: torah
Phonetic Spelling: (to-raw')
Short Definition: law
God's Torah after the Cross:

1 John 3:23-24
23 And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us. 24 Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God, and God in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us.


The Gospel is simple. And every commandment that God wants fulfilled after the Cross is fulfilled in loving one another (Romans 13:8-10).

The laws that were designed to separate Israel from the rest of the world were rendered obsolete at the Cross, which provided Forgiveness, Righteousness, and New Life for all who would believe in Christ.

To stretch John's writings (all of them) to point to Old Covenant observances ignores the inspired teachings of the New Covenant Scriptures.

-JGIG
 
Oct 14, 2013
4,750
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The Greek says that it is the "cheirógrafon toís dógmasin" which is the penalty for sin. Why would Christ remove some of the Law in violation of His earlier statements...

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Luk 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

So which is it? All the Law or part or none? According to Christ, we cannot have it both ways. What does occur in the New Covenant is that the application is changed. Christ is the perfect sacrifice for sin...

Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
Heb 10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
Heb 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

The sacrifices were never meant to take away sin, they were a reminder that the wages of sin is death. Sin requires blood...

Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

But the blood of bulls and goats was not sufficient. The blood of bulls and goats was...

Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

We no longer need these sacrifices to remind us that our sin requires the shedding of blood. Christ came and shed His blood. The sacrifices were a shadow, a schoolmaster, that looked forward to Christ.
Did not Jesus say this also

Matthew 5

[SUP]38 [/SUP]Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
[SUP]39 [/SUP]But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.



Does eye for an eye still stands
 
Oct 14, 2013
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Passover - the shadow of the sacrifice of Christ
Days of Unleavened Bread - putting out sin from our lives
Wave Sheaf - the ascension and presentation of Christ as our sacrifice to the Father
Pentecost - Twofold - the giving of the Holy Spirit and the harvesting of the firstfruits
Trumpets - The trumpet plagues and Christ's return on the seventh trump
Atonement - Twofold- the binding of Satan and the world finally being made at one with God when the source of all sin and rebellion is removed
Tabernacles - the glorious Millenial reign of Christ
The Last Great Day - the Great White Throne Judgment.

The Feast Days are the shadow of the 7000 year plan of God.
Could you explain this
Atonement - Twofold- the binding of Satan and the world finally being made at one with God when the source of all sin and rebellion is removed
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
Did not Jesus say this also

Matthew 5

[SUP]38 [/SUP]Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
[SUP]39 [/SUP]But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.



Does eye for an eye still stands
What is Christ referring to here? Getting even. What is the New Testament application of getting even?

Rom 12:18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.
Rom 12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

What does God say? Don't take vengeance, I WILL. Now that ought to send shivers up and down the spine of any who would harm a converted Christian.
 
Oct 14, 2013
4,750
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What is Christ referring to here? Getting even. What is the New Testament application of getting even?

Rom 12:18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.
Rom 12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

What does God say? Don't take vengeance, I WILL. Now that ought to send shivers up and down the spine of any who would harm a converted Christian.
Did not God always take vengence ?
 

JGIG

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2013
2,295
167
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Colosians is not speaking about the ten commandments being nailed to the cross and i know that but to say that it is talking about sin is incorrect also .

You're right; Colossians is not speaking only of the Ten Commandments; is talking about the entirety of the Law
.

In the Garden, what did Satan use against Adam and Eve? What was his only weapon?

The only law in place at the time; do not eat of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.

The Law is what stands against mankind, as it condemns because of sin.

Colossians 2:13-15

13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness,
which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. 15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

For those in Christ, the Law - all of it - was cancelled at the Cross.

We walk in Grace and are led by the Spirit:

Galatians 5:18
If you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.


-JGIG
 
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I am not a Greek scholar and must refrain from answering that. I will give you the link to the article...

Which Laws Are Done Away? Which Remain?
What was this "handwriting of requirements"? These words are translated from the Greek phrase cheirographon tois dogmasin. Cheirographon means anything written by hand, but can more specifically apply to a legal document, bond or note of debt.

Dogmasin
refers to decrees, laws or ordinances, and in this context means a body of beliefs or practices that have become the guidelines governing a person's conduct or way of life.