I Believe in Evolution and have no problem with Gay Marriage

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DJJesus

Guest
#1
Does that make me less of a Christian in some eyes?

Im tired of the old fashioned perspective on topics like these...Its like we are still living in the times of the Old Testament, things have changed and God knew these things would change, We learn more about the world now then we ever did and im still able to perfectly fit the Bible into my life, because The Bible is a book that points to God, it teaches you how to be a good person, it has never been a history book so why do we treat it as such? In the bigger scheme of things does it matter if there was a flood? Does it matter if Jonah was swallowed by a whale? Does it matter if the Earth was created in 7 days?

No.

These stories point us to God and teach us who he is and what he wants us to become. If you go back to the story of creation, I ask if it matters if the Earth was created in 6 days, I dont think it does, The 6 days show an ordered process that does follow the steps of evolution, it goes from plants to birds then land animals followed by people...the creation story is meant to tell us that we did not come about from chaos but that it was an ordered purposeful creation. Why spend time arguing about something so inconsequential when there are bigger issues about.

There is NOTHING wrong with being Gay.


Lets all get the planks out of our eyes and realize that not one of us are good people, who are we to judge anyone? By thinking that we are better or more right than any other person in itself makes us sinners and not right to judge. I get it your arguments

Lev. 18:22, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."

Lev. 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them"


Good ol' Leviticus, this is a book that goes over everything that you would need to do to be Perfect...it is impossible for us to do alone, every single person reading this post has broken the Law set in Leviticus, lets name a few (if you want me to source these let me know but you will find them all there) Letting your hair become unkempt, tearing your clothes, stealing, lying, defrauding your neighbor, bearing a grudge, any tattoos, not standing in the presence of the elderly. These are all in Leviticus, what makes your sin better than theirs? Plus hating the Gay community and not allowing them to hold posts in churches is completely ridiculous and completely goes against Jesus....do you wanna know the 1 law that matters over anything named in Leviticus? Love thy neighbor, your neighbor isnt only the person sitting next to you or across the street, it is everyone in this world and Jesus wants you to love everyone unequivocally. Being Gay is not any worse of a sin than any of ours, I would say it might even be better than us as we spend our days holding grudges and lying to our neighbors, they in that sin are loving....

Love is never wrong
 
J

jahsoul

Guest
#2
Love is never wrong
First, the Bible contradicts your statement here.
Second, homosexuality was mentioned in Romans...good ol New Testament
Third, I agree with some of what you say. Homosexuality is no worse than other sins but that doesn't negate it from being sin.

I don't know your intent so I will end here.
 
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DJJesus

Guest
#3
Where does it contradict my statement? I am curious.

It is mentioned in Romans 1: 26-28, but it says in their "shameful lusts" and that men "lusted" after each other, so I take that to be more of a Sodom and Gomorrah situation where they become wrong through their Lust for each other, gotta remember lust and love are two different things. Im not sure my entire intent for posting, just want an open discussion about it because honestly I dont know and anyone who says they understand the bible is a fool
 
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megaman125

Guest
#4
Does that make me less of a Christian in some eyes?

Im tired of the old fashioned perspective on topics like these...Its like we are still living in the times of the Old Testament, things have changed and God knew these things would change, We learn more about the world now then we ever did and im still able to perfectly fit the Bible into my life, because The Bible is a book that points to God, it teaches you how to be a good person, it has never been a history book so why do we treat it as such? In the bigger scheme of things does it matter if there was a flood? Does it matter if Jonah was swallowed by a whale? Does it matter if the Earth was created in 7 days?

No.
Evolution, Big Bang, and Abiogenesis are all atempts to explain origins of the universe, origins of life, and the diversity of life WITHOUT GOD. There is no harmonizing anti-biblical doctrine with the Bible. If you wish to believe in contradictory doctrines, then by all means we won't stop you, but you are in no position to say that we all have to believe those doctrines.

There is NOTHING wrong with being Gay.
If someone wants to live the gay lifestyle, I'm not going to stop them. After all, they're the ones that have to live their own life, not me. However, homosexuality is a sin according to the Bible, and there is no getting around that.

Lets all get the planks out of our eyes and realize that not one of us are good people, who are we to judge anyone? By thinking that we are better or more right than any other person in itself makes us sinners and not right to judge. I get it your arguments
Calling homosexuality a sin is not judging, it's simply stating a biblical truth. It's no different than saying that heterosexual sex before marriage is a sin, or that stealing is a sin. Calling sin sin is not judging, learn what judging actually is. All sinners must repent of their sins. There is no cluase in the Bible that says homosexuals do not need to repent, all need to repent. And stating this biblical fact is not judging, it's simply stating the truth, the truth that people need to hear. Telling people they don't need to repent of their sins is preaching a message of eternal death, which is the message you're trying to present. The truth found in the Bible is not meant to sound pretty, and the Bible certainly does not condone the message of "you don't need to repent of your sins, just keep sinning." Everyone needs to repent.
 

starfield

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2009
3,393
58
48
#5
Where does it contradict my statement? I am curious.

It is mentioned in Romans 1: 26-28, but it says in their "shameful lusts" and that men "lusted" after each other, so I take that to be more of a Sodom and Gomorrah situation where they become wrong through their Lust for each other, gotta remember lust and love are two different things. Im not sure my entire intent for posting, just want an open discussion about it because honestly I dont know and anyone who says they understand the bible is a fool
Perhaps to ruffle some feathers...
 
D

DJJesus

Guest
#6
Evolution, Big Bang, and Abiogenesis are all atempts to explain origins of the universe, origins of life, and the diversity of life WITHOUT GOD. There is no harmonizing anti-biblical doctrine with the Bible. If you wish to believe in contradictory doctrines, then by all means we won't stop you, but you are in no position to say that we all have to believe those doctrines.
Why do they have to be "anti-biblical" im sure there were Christian scientists that were part of the the Big Bang Theory, my point is they are not contradictory doctrines, it was not created with the attempt and destroying God or wrecking Christianity its just us trying to figure out more about the world.

If someone wants to live the gay lifestyle, I'm not going to stop them. After all, they're the ones that have to live their own life, not me. However, homosexuality is a sin according to the Bible, and there is no getting around that.
Jesus got around it, lustfully going after someone of the same gender is a sin as much as it is going for someone of the opposite gender is, but loving someone of the same gender, how can that be wrong? What makes their love different then the love you show someone close in your life, what makes that love a sin?



Calling homosexuality a sin is not judging, it's simply stating a biblical truth. It's no different than saying that heterosexual sex before marriage is a sin, or that stealing is a sin. Calling sin sin is not judging, learn what judging actually is. All sinners must repent of their sins. There is no cluase in the Bible that says homosexuals do not need to repent, all need to repent. And stating this biblical fact is not judging, it's simply stating the truth, the truth that people need to hear. Telling people they don't need to repent of their sins is preaching a message of eternal death, which is the message you're trying to present. The truth found in the Bible is not meant to sound pretty, and the Bible certainly does not condone the message of "you don't need to repent of your sins, just keep sinning." Everyone needs to repent.
Judging (v) form an opinion or conclusion about.

You are forming the opinion that they are going to hell and your way of looking at the Bible is the only way that could be correct, sounds close minded to me. I by no means am preaching a message of "eternal death" if anything im trying to say that Love wins out, Jesus died for us because we are sinners, that is by no means an excuse to go sin just because you are covered, but I can not believe that if God is love he would send someone to hell solely for the reason of loving
 

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
6,397
109
48
#7
Does that make me less of a Christian in some eyes?

Im tired of the old fashioned perspective on topics like these...Its like we are still living in the times of the Old Testament, things have changed and God knew these things would change, We learn more about the world now then we ever did and im still able to perfectly fit the Bible into my life, because The Bible is a book that points to God, it teaches you how to be a good person, it has never been a history book so why do we treat it as such? In the bigger scheme of things does it matter if there was a flood? Does it matter if Jonah was swallowed by a whale? Does it matter if the Earth was created in 7 days?

No.

These stories point us to God and teach us who he is and what he wants us to become. If you go back to the story of creation, I ask if it matters if the Earth was created in 6 days, I dont think it does, The 6 days show an ordered process that does follow the steps of evolution, it goes from plants to birds then land animals followed by people...the creation story is meant to tell us that we did not come about from chaos but that it was an ordered purposeful creation. Why spend time arguing about something so inconsequential when there are bigger issues about.

There is NOTHING wrong with being Gay.


Lets all get the planks out of our eyes and realize that not one of us are good people, who are we to judge anyone? By thinking that we are better or more right than any other person in itself makes us sinners and not right to judge. I get it your arguments

Lev. 18:22, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."

Lev. 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them"


Good ol' Leviticus, this is a book that goes over everything that you would need to do to be Perfect...it is impossible for us to do alone, every single person reading this post has broken the Law set in Leviticus, lets name a few (if you want me to source these let me know but you will find them all there) Letting your hair become unkempt, tearing your clothes, stealing, lying, defrauding your neighbor, bearing a grudge, any tattoos, not standing in the presence of the elderly. These are all in Leviticus, what makes your sin better than theirs? Plus hating the Gay community and not allowing them to hold posts in churches is completely ridiculous and completely goes against Jesus....do you wanna know the 1 law that matters over anything named in Leviticus? Love thy neighbor, your neighbor isnt only the person sitting next to you or across the street, it is everyone in this world and Jesus wants you to love everyone unequivocally. Being Gay is not any worse of a sin than any of ours, I would say it might even be better than us as we spend our days holding grudges and lying to our neighbors, they in that sin are loving....

Love is never wrong
I don't think you understand "judging" and the New Testament.
God doesn't change, and He certainly isn't going to change His law to accommodate the fleshly desires of man. Read your bible.
 
D

DJJesus

Guest
#8
Perhaps to ruffle some feathers...
lol i dont want to ruffle feathers but its something I never have had the opportunity to discuss with lots of other Christians so thats why im doing it, I want people to contradict me so I can try to provide my self a steady base of what I actually believe
 
J

jahsoul

Guest
#9
Where does it contradict my statement? I am curious.

It is mentioned in Romans 1: 26-28, but it says in their "shameful lusts" and that men "lusted" after each other, so I take that to be more of a Sodom and Gomorrah situation where they become wrong through their Lust for each other, gotta remember lust and love are two different things. Im not sure my entire intent for posting, just want an open discussion about it because honestly I dont know and anyone who says they understand the bible is a fool
Well, first we have to get specific about the different types of love, but seeing it is 10:42PM CST, I won't be doing that tonight..lol. But it can be said that anything that we love more than God is a form of idolatry.

But in Romans, it actually stated that it was against nature. But I don't stick to homosexuality unless it is brought up but I do stand by sin being sin. Some people love to kill, some love to steal, love to lie, love to fornicate, etc, but that doesn't make the love right because they are not living according to the spirit but flesh. But I'm getting sleepy, I will probably talk more tomorrow.
 
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DJJesus

Guest
#10
I don't think you understand "judging" and the New Testament.
God doesn't change, and He certainly isn't going to change His law to accommodate the fleshly desires of man. Read your bible.
I never said he is changing or would accommodate "fleshy desires" If you read my response above I said that yes I believe lusting after someone of the same gender is a sin as much as lusting after someone of the opposite gender. Love and Lust are different I dont believe Loving someone of the same gender is a sin, It just doesnt make sense that one form of Love would be so worse than the other
 

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
6,397
109
48
#11
I never said he is changing or would accommodate "fleshy desires" If you read my response above I said that yes I believe lusting after someone of the same gender is a sin as much as lusting after someone of the opposite gender. Love and Lust are different I dont believe Loving someone of the same gender is a sin, It just doesnt make sense that one form of Love would be so worse than the other
Do you even understand why God is against homosexuality?
 
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DJJesus

Guest
#12
Well, first we have to get specific about the different types of love, but seeing it is 10:42PM CST, I won't be doing that tonight..lol. But it can be said that anything that we love more than God is a form of idolatry.

But in Romans, it actually stated that it was against nature. But I don't stick to homosexuality unless it is brought up but I do stand by sin being sin. Some people love to kill, some love to steal, love to lie, love to fornicate, etc, but that doesn't make the love right because they are not living according to the spirit but flesh. But I'm getting sleepy, I will probably talk more tomorrow.
Have a great night! We in our modern vocabulary have really kind of the word love, but love in the bible is this, 1 Corinthians 13:4-8 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. (copy and pasted sorry) but that is the type of love i am talking about not a love of sin
 

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
6,397
109
48
#14
For one it goes against Gods plan for mankind. I mean, he did create man and woman. Only man and woman can reproduce. Not man and man or woman and woman.
 
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megaman125

Guest
#15
Why do they have to be "anti-biblical" im sure there were Christian scientists that were part of the the Big Bang Theory, my point is they are not contradictory doctrines, it was not created with the attempt and destroying God or wrecking Christianity its just us trying to figure out more about the world.
Try re-reading my post, speicifically the part about how they're atempts to explain everything WITHOUT GOD. It's the same, age old, prideful sin Adam and Eve fell into when they thought they knew better than God and didn't need God and so they disobeyed God, in an atempt to become god of their own lives.

Jesus got around it, lustfully going after someone of the same gender is a sin as much as it is going for someone of the opposite gender is, but loving someone of the same gender, how can that be wrong?
Homosexuality is a sin according to the Bible no matter how you try and spin it. Your debate is not with me, your debate is with God's Word.

What makes their love different then the love you show someone close in your life, what makes that love a sin?
I get the feeling you don't know what love really is.


Judging (v) form an opinion or conclusion about.

You are forming the opinion that they are going to hell and your way of looking at the Bible is the only way that could be correct, sounds close minded to me. I by no means am preaching a message of "eternal death" if anything im trying to say that Love wins out, Jesus died for us because we are sinners, that is by no means an excuse to go sin just because you are covered, but I can not believe that if God is love he would send someone to hell solely for the reason of loving
False! It is not my opinion. The Bible plainly states that all unrepentant sinners do not go to heaven. The Bible also plainly states that homosexuality is a sin. Homosexuals (and anyone for that matter) that do not repent, do not go to heaven. This is not my opinion, this is biblical truth. If you believe the Bible, then you need to get in line with the truth of what the Bible says. If you don't want to do that, then I ask that you please do not claim that you believe the Bible when you don't.
 
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DJJesus

Guest
#16
Try re-reading my post, speicifically the part about how they're atempts to explain everything WITHOUT GOD. It's the same, age old, prideful sin Adam and Eve fell into when they thought they knew better than God and didn't need God and so they disobeyed God, in an atempt to become god of their own lives.



Homosexuality is a sin according to the Bible no matter how you try and spin it. Your debate is not with me, your debate is with God's Word.



I get the feeling you don't know what love really is.




False! It is not my opinion. The Bible plainly states that all unrepentant sinners do not go to heaven. The Bible also plainly states that homosexuality is a sin. Homosexuals (and anyone for that matter) that do not repent, do not go to heaven. This is not my opinion, this is biblical truth. If you believe the Bible, then you need to get in line with the truth of what the Bible says. If you don't want to do that, then I ask that you please do not claim that you believe the Bible when you don't.
before i answer please source what you are claiming out of the bible..it makes it easier and makes it more legit also again as I said before Love is 1 Corinthians 13:4-13
 
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megaman125

Guest
#17
before i answer please source what you are claiming out of the bible..it makes it easier and makes it more legit also again as I said before Love is 1 Corinthians 13:4-13
Yes, you posted that part as I was typing mine. Well then, now that you've defined Biblical love, than I'm going to throw this statement out there. Homosexual sex is not love.

As for what I'm claiming about the Bible, here, I'm feeling generous, so I'll bullet point it for you.

1. The Bible says homosexuality is a sin.
2. The Bible says all people are sinners. (Romans 3:23)
3. The Bible says all people need to repent of their sins. (Mark 2:17)
4. The Bible says all people who don't repent of their sins do not go to heaven. (1 Corinthians 6:9)

Now that I've listed those out for you, please state which of those you don't agree with, why you don't agree with them, and use the Bible to show where any of those 4 things are incorrect.
 
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DJJesus

Guest
#18
Yes, you posted that part as I was typing mine. Well then, now that you've defined Biblical love, than I'm going to throw this statement out there. Homosexual sex is not love.
Love is Love..sex is the greatest way to show love for your significant other because it is so personal, Lustful Sex is not love.


The Bible says homosexuality is a sin.
For the base of what it is I guess I cant argue that, but I do believe Jesus came in and was a Game Changer...he made love the thing that mattered, It didnt matter anymore that you had tattoos or that you kept your hair unkempt, he died and took it all on so that through Love you were saved and I dont think that through the same Love(although imperfect) you are damned because of who you choose to show it to
The Bible says all people are sinners. (Romans 3:23)
Yes we are sinners
The Bible says all people need to repent of their sins. (Mark 2:17)
Mark 2:17 talks about the fact that Jesus came to earth for those that were sinners not those who were "holy" has nothing to do with repenting again it solidifies the fact that Jesus died for Everyone
The Bible says all people who don't repent of their sins do not go to heaven. (1 Corinthians 6:9)
Because of the wording of that verse I would again take that to mean Lustfully having sex with people of the same gender and not a Loving relationship


Thanks for the discussion too always great to have! Not trying to argue with anyone or let things become heated just want a real discussion
 
Oct 31, 2011
8,200
182
0
#19
Could you tell me?
Have you been born spiritually so you can hear God speak? I hope so because I am going to talk about not only our physical but our spiritual nature.

There were profound things created when God created our world, it was not only a physical world but a spiritual one that would endure after we are done with this physical one. Many things that happened, and instructions we have for living here until we pass on to the next one affect us spiritually. Also, some things that God did at first are part of our DNA, part of who we are today.

God made us one person, first, only Adam without Eve. Then God separated Adam, and with part of Adam's being Eve was created. You can see this played out today when you see marriages that produce children. First there are only two people, male and female, and then by God's doing there are three, a child grows in the female. When you understand this, you are understanding a God happening, seeing God working in our physical world.

God gave us sex that results in this. Sex has a spiritual side, and without that spiritual side it becomes immorality or sin. Sex gives even spiritual life, sin kills spiritual life. Through sex two people become one. That statement takes spiritual understanding to comprehend, it is profound.

It takes a male and female to become one. If something is parted like male and female were parted, you can't put two together again that weren't one in the first place. It not only won't fit, but trying to fit together what God made not to fit together rips a spiritual truth. God can see nothing good in it no matter how we reason with God, for the sin of the wrong pairing gets in the way and overrides any way we can argue with God.
 
L

LT

Guest
#20
Be gentle guys.
As long as he believes the Gospel, the Spirit will do the correcting.

1. We are all sinners.
2. The punishment for sin is death and eternal separation from God(2nd death).
3. There is no way to get to God based on what you do, we are too messed up to get it right.
4. God loved His creation soo much that He made a way to save them.
5. The penalty for sin is death, so He sent His Son to die in our place.
6. His Son is also God, and is therefor infinitely more valuable than us, so when He died it was worth more than all of us could do.
7. Not only did Jesus (God's Son) die, but He rose from the dead, giving us victory over death!
8. He promised that those who trust in Him and His sacrifice would be adopted as His brothers and sisters (the Children of God), and would share in His inheritance of the Kingdom of Heaven.
9. He sends His Holy Spirit to stay with and guide His people, to help them love one another, and grow in faith. (repentance is part of maturing in Christ, not salvation).


Christ died for our sin, and rose from the dead. Trust in that, and you are saved.
 
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