I want the truth , no beating around the bush

[lookingforthetruth]

The bible was originally written a number of years after the death of Jesus Christ.Now my question is the King James Version is based on a later manuscript compared to the New International Version which uses a manuscript earlier to the death of Jesus Christ?
In 1 John Chapter 5 Verse 7
The King James Version states :" For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." This sounds like the trinity
However the earlier manuscript in the New International version states : "For there are three that testify"

Isn't this proof an alteration to the later manuscripts and show a sense of corruption.If you disagree please note why you do.Thank you, keep in my mind it isn't my intention to offend nor hurt anyone.

 

[Ariel82]

even during paul's time there were people circulating false gospels. You can see it in the words of his letters and his warnings. just because a manuscript is "older" does not mean it is more true to God's message or His Gospel story.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

It is generally agreed that verse 7 is not part of the original text.

 

[lookingforthetruth]

okay but what if one of the manuscripts has been changed in such a way that you no longer follow jesus but rather go against his teachings and i quote Mathew 7:22 "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'
I'm sure Christians are the only ones that propheise in the name of jesus as muslims worship allah,jews reject jesus, hindus some elephant thingy and so on. Even further Jesus says Mathew 15:19 "But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men"Isn't jesus saying your worshipping him for no reaason here ?

 

[wordsponge]

The bible was originally written a number of years after the death of Jesus Christ.Now my question is the King James Version is based on a later manuscript compared to the New International Version which uses a manuscript earlier to the death of Jesus Christ?
In 1 John Chapter 5 Verse 7
The King James Version states :"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." This sounds like the trinity
However the earlier manuscript in the New International version states : "For there are three that testify"

Isn't this proof an alteration to the later manuscripts and show a sense of corruption.If you disagree please note why you do.Thank you, keep in my mind it isn't my intention to offend nor hurt anyone.

Hello,

There is a very damaging alteration that skewed almost everyone.

May PM you ?

 

[morninglory]

even during paul's time there were people circulating false gospels. You can see it in the words of his letters and his warnings. just because a manuscript is "older" does not mean it is more true to God's message or His Gospel story.

Friend, actually Jerom's first translation gave him a guilty conscience because he was trying to please other Church officials. When he was really sick at one point, he had terrible dreams about it, and then re translated it. I found that information in an Encyclopedia before I had a computer, but I imagine it could be googled now.

 

[lookingforthetruth]

@wordsponge just keep the convo here because maybe others will benefit from this conversation if you get what i mean
@herosefromthedead , men believe it is an alteration but just think for a second what if its not ? i mean hell is a big thing to risk .Im sure hell is no resort and imagine if you let other men remove what is the true word of god which is a possibility if you know what i mean. Also we don't have any original manuscripts to refer back to which is a huge issueee. Anyone can say this is not the word of god within reason if you get my drift . Also from what ive gathered the gospel of john is perhaps one of the only tablets thats not shattered while the rest are in fragements so you never know and like i said i mean earthly fire hurts me imagine supernatural fire
I have so many questions <>

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

@wordsponge just keep the convo here because maybe others will benefit from this conversation if you get what i mean
@herosefromthedead , men believe it is an alteration but just think for a second what if its not ? i mean hell is a big thing to risk .Im sure hell is no resort and imagine if you let other men remove what is the true word of god which is a possibility if you know what i mean. Also we don't have any original manuscripts to refer back to which is a huge issueee. Anyone can say this is not the word of god within reason if you get my drift . Also from what ive gathered the gospel of john is perhaps one of the only tablets thats not shattered while the rest are in fragements so you never know and like i said i mean earthly fire hurts me imagine supernatural fire
I have so many questions <>

The verse in question is not that big of a deal.

 

[Ariel82]

The verse in question is not that big of a deal.

it is if you are trying to prove that Jesus is not really God.

 

[lookingforthetruth]

@herosefromthedead , What about when Jesus calls the Christians and i quote " workers of lawlessness " in your own bible im sure that wasn't an alteration or is it anything that doesn't agree with Christian belief is thrown out ?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

@herosefromthedead , What about when Jesus calls the Christians and i quote " workers of lawlessness " in your own bible im sure that wasn't an alteration or is it anything that doesn't agree with Christian belief is thrown out ?

Those whom he will call workers of lawlessness are those who pretend to be Christ's followers, but are only so in outward form.

 

[lookingforthetruth]

@herosefromthedead , did jesus say that in the bible near the verse or are you making that up ? Show me the verse where that is being said please .If someone considers Jesus so important that he is powerful enough to cast demons out and call him Lord which means God im pretty sure they're loyal..

 

[John_S]

The bible was originally written a number of years after the death of Jesus Christ.Now my question is the King James Version is based on a later manuscript compared to the New International Version which uses a manuscript earlier to the death of Jesus Christ?
In 1 John Chapter 5 Verse 7
The King James Version states :"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." This sounds like the trinity
However the earlier manuscript in the New International version states : "For there are three that testify"

Isn't this proof an alteration to the later manuscripts and show a sense of corruption.If you disagree please note why you do.Thank you, keep in my mind it isn't my intention to offend nor hurt anyone.

The Old Testament was written MANY years before the birth of Jesus Christ.

 

[4enlightment]

The bible was originally written a number of years after the death of Jesus Christ.Now my question is the King James Version is based on a later manuscript compared to the New International Version which uses a manuscript earlier to the death of Jesus Christ?
In 1 John Chapter 5 Verse 7
The King James Version states :"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." This sounds like the trinity
However the earlier manuscript in the New International version states : "For there are three that testify"

Isn't this proof an alteration to the later manuscripts and show a sense of corruption.If you disagree please note why you do.Thank you, keep in my mind it isn't my intention to offend nor hurt anyone.

Matthew 18:16But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’

Matthew 18:18 “Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.
19 “Again, truly I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything they ask for, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. 20 For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.”

Genesis 18:1 The Lord appeared to Abraham near the great trees of Mamre while he was sitting at the entrance to his tent in the heat of the day. 2 Abraham looked up and saw three men standing nearby. When he saw them, he hurried from the entrance of his tent to meet them and bowed low to the ground.

John 11:25
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die;

1 Kings 17:17 Some time later the son of the woman who owned the house became ill. He grew worse and worse, and finally stopped breathing. 18 She said to Elijah, “What do you have against me, man of God? Did you come to remind me of my sin and kill my son?”
19 “Give me your son,” Elijah replied. He took him from her arms, carried him to the upper room where he was staying, and laid him on his bed. 20 Then he cried out to the Lord, “Lord my God, have you brought tragedy even on this widow I am staying with, by causing her son to die?” 21 Then he stretched himself out on the boy three times and cried out to the Lord, “Lord my God, let this boy’s life return to him!”
22 The Lord heard Elijah’s cry, and the boy’s life returned to him, and he lived. 23 Elijah picked up the child and carried him down from the room into the house. He gave him to his mother and said, “Look, your son is alive!”
24 Then the woman said to Elijah, “Now I know that you are a man of God and that the word of the Lord from your mouth is the truth.

Mark 6:7
Calling the Twelve to him, he began to send them out two by two and gave them authority over impure spirits.

Luke 24:38
He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds?

John 20:27Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”


The rule of Three is a writing principle that suggests that things that come in threes are inherently funnier, more satisfying, or more effective than other numbers of things. The reader or audience of this form of text is also more likely to consume information if it is written in groups of threes. From slogans ("Go, fight, win!") to films, many things are structured in threes. Examples include The Three Stooges, Three Little Pigs, Three Billy Goats Gruff,Goldilocks and the Three Bears.
A series of three often creates a progression in which the tension is created, built up, and finally released. Similarly, adjectives are often grouped in threes to emphasize an idea.
The Latin phrase, "omne trium perfectum" (everything that comes in threes is perfect, or, every set of three is complete) conveys the same idea as the rule of three.
Rule of three (writing) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[lookingforthetruth]

The Old Testament was written MANY years before the birth of Jesus Christ.

Who said i was talking about the old testament ? your bringing irrelevant information into the topic.I'm talking about the book of 1 John was written approximately 40 years after the death of Jesus Christ .The earlier manuscript contradicts the later manuscript meaning whether you will accept it or not there have been changes logically-speaking. I'm curious to understand why Christians deny this and so on that's all

 

[lookingforthetruth]

Matthew 18:16But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’

Matthew 18:18 “Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.
19 “Again, truly I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything they ask for, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. 20 For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.”

Genesis 18:1 The Lord appeared to Abraham near the great trees of Mamre while he was sitting at the entrance to his tent in the heat of the day. 2 Abraham looked up and saw three men standing nearby. When he saw them, he hurried from the entrance of his tent to meet them and bowed low to the ground.

John 11:25
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die;

1 Kings 17:17 Some time later the son of the woman who owned the house became ill. He grew worse and worse, and finally stopped breathing. 18 She said to Elijah, “What do you have against me, man of God? Did you come to remind me of my sin and kill my son?”
19 “Give me your son,” Elijah replied. He took him from her arms, carried him to the upper room where he was staying, and laid him on his bed. 20 Then he cried out to the Lord, “Lord my God, have you brought tragedy even on this widow I am staying with, by causing her son to die?” 21 Then he stretched himself out on the boy three times and cried out to the Lord, “Lord my God, let this boy’s life return to him!”
22 The Lord heard Elijah’s cry, and the boy’s life returned to him, and he lived. 23 Elijah picked up the child and carried him down from the room into the house. He gave him to his mother and said, “Look, your son is alive!”
24 Then the woman said to Elijah, “Now I know that you are a man of God and that the word of the Lord from your mouth is the truth.

Mark 6:7
Calling the Twelve to him, he began to send them out two by two and gave them authority over impure spirits.

Luke 24:38
He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds?

John 20:27Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”


The rule of Three is a writing principle that suggests that things that come in threes are inherently funnier, more satisfying, or more effective than other numbers of things. The reader or audience of this form of text is also more likely to consume information if it is written in groups of threes. From slogans ("Go, fight, win!") to films, many things are structured in threes. Examples include The Three Stooges, Three Little Pigs, Three Billy Goats Gruff,Goldilocks and the Three Bears.
A series of three often creates a progression in which the tension is created, built up, and finally released. Similarly, adjectives are often grouped in threes to emphasize an idea.
The Latin phrase, "omne trium perfectum" (everything that comes in threes is perfect, or, every set of three is complete) conveys the same idea as the rule of three.
Rule of three (writing) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If the trinity does exist and Jesus,the father and the holy spirit are one then may i ask why jesus prayed to the father yet the father prayed to the son.Also the father was a complete god by himself when jesus was on Earth so mathematically how much person does " Jesus " make up of the being known as god since the father is a complete god by himself

 

[RedTent]

This is ridiculous! You are straining at gnats! You have pulled out one tree in a forest and misusing that one item to explain an entire concept.

In the first place the first books of scripture weren't even put into writing for several hundred years. Then God's spiritual message had to be translated into human words. You are complaining about how translations were made of translations many thousands of years later. Thirty men worked at the KJV 1,600 years after Christ was crucified. It was Luther who made the idea popular that the bible should be read by everyone, the church at that time was opposed to that idea.

No particular translation is to be considered the way some look at the KJV, we are to look for God's original spiritual message and understand we are learning of it through words that are translated by men with God's help. They did the best they could, all translators do, we are to do the best we can to hear God through the words they give us.

To do that, we are never to take one verse, intellectualize and analyze it to it's death, without putting it into the context of all the rest of the bible. We are to search for God's truth.

 

[Wanderers]

This is known as the Johannine Comma and is disputed amongst scholars. You can google it and look at both for and against.

Remember though, earlier doesn't always mean better.

 

[homwardbound]

okay but what if one of the manuscripts has been changed in such a way that you no longer follow jesus but rather go against his teachings and i quote Mathew 7:22 "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'"And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'
I'm sure Christians are the only ones that propheise in the name of jesus as muslims worship allah,jews reject jesus, hindus some elephant thingy and so on. Even further Jesus says Mathew 15:19 "But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men"Isn't jesus saying your worshipping him for no reaason here ?

That end time of Judgment is the showing of who walked by Faith Trusting the finished work of Christ at the cross for us to be led by God as Christ was led when here on earth, the Same Holy Ghost that led him is sent to all that believe a free gift no earning a gift. God freely gives this. So first one sees Christ's death in the flesh as their own personal death of self and then god shows you the new life in the resurrected Christ empowering you to walk as Son already walked in Love to everyone, you rest from any flesh works that you are deceived by flesh works to do, as is so prominent in todays world that is against God's truth. so simple it is not easy to see being indoctrinated with works from birth on

 

[mystdancer50]

Who said i was talking about the old testament ? your bringing irrelevant information into the topic.I'm talking about the book of 1 John was written approximately 40 years after the death of Jesus Christ .The earlier manuscript contradicts the later manuscript meaning whether you will accept it or not there have been changes logically-speaking. I'm curious to understand why Christians deny this and so on that's all

He was clarifying because you said "The Bible was written many years after Jesus' death". The Bible means the OT and the NT. So, the OT was written many, many years before Jesus' birth, death and resurrection...which was what my response to this thread was going to be, too. Clarification, not accusation.