The Israel of God

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eternally-gratefull said:

Yet they do not negate romans 11.
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e.g. somehow or another you think that i have said that they do. the circumcision of the heart is of those who are of the genealogy of the Hebrews given the law of Moses and as Paul explains in rom.2;27-29,,,, now as for me i am what mankind defines as a "Jew" that is of the flesh i am a descendent of these.

now in Romans 11;13 paul states that his intention is to "provoke me,who is born of the same tribe",,,so then if a Jew is not a Jew who is circumcised of the flesh rom.2;28,,,,and Paul is provoking me "that he might save some of us,rom2;29",,,,then even me(who is an Hebrew in the flesh),,,am i a Jew when i am circumcised in the flesh or in the heart?,,,that is even i am bound by the same grace(romans 11;6),,,you see i do agree,it does not nullify chapter 11,they are the same,,,,,,,
 
i tried to edit "tribe to say stock",i was past the 5 min. but Paul was of the tribe of Benjamin(phill.3;5) i believe and as for me i do not know the exact tribe,only that i descended from these,
 
I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,
3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to
provoke them to jealousy.
12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is
happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
 
iamsoandso said:
e.g. somehow or another you think that i have said that they do. the circumcision of the heart is of those who are of the genealogy of the Hebrews given the law of Moses and as Paul explains in rom.2;27-29,,,, now as for me i am what mankind defines as a "Jew" that is of the flesh i am a descendent of these.

now in Romans 11;13 paul states that his intention is to "provoke me,who is born of the same tribe",,,so then if a Jew is not a Jew who is circumcised of the flesh rom.2;28,,,,and Paul is provoking me "that he might save some of us,rom2;29",,,,then even me(who is an Hebrew in the flesh),,,am i a Jew when i am circumcised in the flesh or in the heart?,,,that is even i am bound by the same grace(romans 11;6),,,you see i do agree,it does not nullify chapter 11,they are the same,,,,,,,
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1. I know what your saying, I hear people say it all the time.
2. Paul is telling us in romans 11 to provoke his blood breatheryn (physical) not his spiritual bretheryn. that is a false interpretation.
3. Paul in romans 11 is telling GENTILE BELIEVERS in Christ (although they are spiritual Isreal, they are still physical gentiles, thus we are to interpret correctly. that paul is separating physical Isreal from Physical Gentile here, no matter what their eternal stance is) not to boast that they have been saved, and Israel has been cut off. WHy?
4. Because one day, We too (as Gentiles) are going to fall away (it is evident every day we as the gentile church are making the SAME MISTAKES Isreal did) and one day, Israel is going to repent ant be grafted back in.
5. He also proves he is NOT talking if spiritual Israel, But PHYSICAL Israel, when he states clearly. They are our enemy (natural Israel) but STILL BELOVED, why? Because of the fathers. why? Because the promises of God (his covenants) are irrevokable, THEY STILL STAND.

thus trying to interpret ISRAEL in roma 11 as spiritual and not natural is a MISTAKE.

as as I said. Rom 2 and the rest does NOT negate what Romans 11 says
 
iamsoandso said:
i tried to edit "tribe to say stock",i was past the 5 min. but Paul was of the tribe of Benjamin(phill.3;5) i believe and as for me i do not know the exact tribe,only that i descended from these,
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Physical descended, or spiritual. And if Physical. how do you know?
 
eternally-gratefull said:
Physical descended, or spiritual. And if Physical. how do you know?
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dna testing,,,,at first it was not needed to emigrate to Israel but now is becoming more prominent unless you have documents supporting race. i at one time considered duel nationality but changed my mind when confronted with the fact i would have to denounce Christianity and convert to Judaism,,,,
 
To sister Zone, I am not sure what you are "workin' on" "their fullness"..."when Israel...turns to Him...if they do." MAYBE, you are restuding your eschatalogy, If so, THIS is good. You need to take serious God's promises to His chosen nation Israel as in Zech. 12:9-10. Sister Linda, The "elect" remnant of Israel is the real spiritual Church of Christ in the O.T.. Gentiles are grafted into the Jewish Church of Christ, began in the O.T.. Remember, Jesus WAS, before He became the son of Mary, the eternal SON of GOD,building His Church from Adam's day to our day; Jesus only continues the Church in the N.T., which, He began in the garden. love to all, Hoffco
 
To iamsoandso, I think you are saying, the "heart circumcised" Jew in Rom.2:29 is the same as the "elect"Jew of Rom.11:7. And you are saying .you are both a physical and spiritual descendent of Abraham. I, myself, am a saved Gentile, so I am a spiritual descendent of Abarham but not a physical descendent of Abraham. Eternal Love to all who love Jesus in truth, Hoffco
 
eternally-gratefull said:
1. I know what your saying, I hear people say it all the time.
2. Paul is telling us in romans 11 to provoke his blood breatheryn (physical) not his spiritual bretheryn. that is a false interpretation.
3. Paul in romans 11 is telling GENTILE BELIEVERS in Christ (although they are spiritual Isreal, they are still physical gentiles, thus we are to interpret correctly. that paul is separating physical Isreal from Physical Gentile here, no matter what their eternal stance is) not to boast that they have been saved, and Israel has been cut off. WHy?
4. Because one day, We too (as Gentiles) are going to fall away (it is evident every day we as the gentile church are making the SAME MISTAKES Isreal did) and one day, Israel is going to repent ant be grafted back in.
5. He also proves he is NOT talking if spiritual Israel, But PHYSICAL Israel, when he states clearly. They are our enemy (natural Israel) but STILL BELOVED, why? Because of the fathers. why? Because the promises of God (his covenants) are irrevokable, THEY STILL STAND.

thus trying to interpret ISRAEL in roma 11 as spiritual and not natural is a MISTAKE.

as as I said. Rom 2 and the rest does NOT negate what Romans 11 says
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and yes i do agree that he is also warning the churches as is also pointed out in rev.18;23 that the voice of the bride,and bridegroom=Christ and a(one?) church will at that point not have the grooms voice nor the brides and the light will shine no more in it. this is as we know the warning given in the letters to the 7 churches (rev.2;5)but this is only a warning to Ephesus and in rev.18;23

this is not according to the symbols employed groom,bride,candlestick employed to the religious body in rev. 18;23 the groom is present and the bride and the candlestick. so as you state in Romans ch.11 it is as much a warning of becoming puffed up in the consideration of the branch being grafted in and plucked back out. but this(rev.18;23) could relate to only one of the christian churches,a group of them or the remainder of the Jews who do not repent and turn to Christ.,,,,
 
Hoffco said:
To iamsoandso, I think you are saying, the "heart circumcised" Jew in Rom.2:29 is the same as the "elect"Jew of Rom.11:7. And you are saying .you are both a physical and spiritual descendent of Abraham. I, myself, am a saved Gentile, so I am a spiritual descendent of Abarham but not a physical descendent of Abraham. Eternal Love to all who love Jesus in truth, Hoffco
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no there is no flesh(race),,,a Jew is a decendent by faith in Christ,,,,,,,
 
To iamsoandso, I disagree, there is a nationality of Jews, Israel. I am a descendent of the Abernacks in New York. as far as I know, our tribe is not related to the Jews, but who knows for sure, SO, you are denying that the Jews are from the nation of Israel? Or are you denying difference in race? If you believe in ONE race, HUMAN, then I agree with you. We are all of one race, Homo Sapine. AS a Gentile ,I can never be a Jew, physically, BUT, I can be a "spiritual" Jew by faith in the God of Abraham. I hope you agree. Love to all, Hoffco
 
Hoffco said:
To iamsoandso, I disagree, there is a nationality of Jews, Israel. I am a descendent of the Abernacks in New York. as far as I know, our tribe is not related to the Jews, but who knows for sure, SO, you are denying that the Jews are from the nation of Israel? Or are you denying difference in race? If you believe in ONE race, HUMAN, then I agree with you. We are all of one race, Homo Sapine. AS a Gentile ,I can never be a Jew, physically, BUT, I can be a "spiritual" Jew by faith in the God of Abraham. I hope you agree. Love to all, Hoffco
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yes human's any human whether they are of one race or another "he is not a discerner of meats",,,so any race if they confess Christ are "Jew",,,,,,,and any race(even if from the genetic line of the carnal bloodline of the Hebrews),,,who reject the son of god is not,,,,,,,
 
iamsoandso said:
dna testing,,,,at first it was not needed to emigrate to Israel but now is becoming more prominent unless you have documents supporting race. i at one time considered duel nationality but changed my mind when confronted with the fact i would have to denounce Christianity and convert to Judaism,,,,
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1. You would not have to denounce anything, that is nuts.

2 DNA testing? What do you have DNA of the 12 sons of Joseph to compair too?

 
Elin said:
:confused: ??????
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Rom 2 speaks of SpirituL Isreal. Those who will be in heaven

Rom 11 speaks of physical Isreal Some blinded. Some saved, Elect of God. one day all saved. vs Saved Gentiles (who were not included as Israel spiritual or not) and wanrd us saved gentiles not to be "puffed up"

You can;t use rom 2 to interpret rom 11, because they are talking of two different things

 
iamsoandso, that is so much "Garbage." Please read, Acts 17:26 "And He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellins," I am of one race with you but I may be of a different country than you. Love to all. Hoffco
 
eternallygratefull, you need to see that Paul is talking of the same people in both Rom.2 &11. In ch. two, God speaks of the lost, hypocritical Jew, then the saved Gentile and the saved Jew, who is heart circumcised by the spirit. The same in ch 11, the lost jewish nation as compared to the elect Jews and Gentiles who are saved and he warns the Gentiles no to boast, because they can be kicked out as the Jews were when they lacked faith. Love to all, Hoffco
 
Hoffco said:
iamsoandso, that is so much "Garbage." Please read, Acts 17:26 "And He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellins," I am of one race with you but I may be of a different country than you. Love to all. Hoffco
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well,it may seem harsh,but you end all your post with "love to all.hoffco",,,,,,,but at the same time we all see your manner of speech,,,,"deny",,,"garbage",and many more,,,,,,,so i am content to follow my beliefs,but when you begin your post "with love to all,and your acts are then proved by having respect to us all,,,,,well then your preaching may become more valid,,,,,,"i am in the midst of loving you",,,,,,,,,
 
eternally-gratefull said:
Rom 2 speaks of SpirituL Isreal. Those who will be in heaven
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Read it again.

Ro 2 is right in the middle of Paul's demonstration that all men are unrighteous under the law,
Gentiles (chp 1), as well as Jews (chp 2), no one is righteous not even one, (chp 3:1-20),
but a righteousness from God has been made known, which comes through faith in Jesus Christ.
(3:21-31)

Rom 11 speaks of physical Isreal
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Ro 11 speaks of the same Israel as does chp 2.

Some blinded. Some saved, Elect of God. one day all saved. vs Saved Gentiles (who were not included as Israel spiritual or not) and wanrd us saved gentiles not to be "puffed up"

You can;t use rom 2 to interpret rom 11, because they are talking of two different things
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They are talking of the same Israel.

 
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