Amillennial theology is in error - (no literal thousand year reign)

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Paul said that Hymenaeus was creating problems by claiming that the resurrection had already occurred. There are two ways to look at this: 1) a physical resurrection, or 2) a spiritual resurrection. I am thinking that he taught the latter because the former doesn't make sense in the context.

Perhaps Hymenaeus is the father of amillennialism?

This is more serious than I thought. Hymeneus didn't teach that the resurrection was past, but that the resurrection had already come into being. This is what a literal translation of 2 Timothy 2:17-18 says:

And their word will eat as gangrene, of whom is Hymeneus and Philetus, who swerve concerning the truth saying the resurrection has come into being now, and are overthrowing the faith of some. 2 Timothy 2:17-18​

 

[zone]

I disagree with these rationalizations.

Paul said that Hymenaeus was creating problems by claiming that the resurrection had already occurred. There are two ways to look at this: 1) a physical resurrection, or 2) a spiritual resurrection. I am thinking that he taught the latter because the former doesn't make sense in the context.

Perhaps Hymenaeus is the father of amillennialism?

you've address this concern.
you haven't explained how saying we have been raised with Him seated with Him in the heavenlies (per Paul) overthrows the faith of any.
in fact....we rely on those promises as a reality.

the same Paul taught this:

Ephesians 2:6
And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus.



so now could you please explain what is meant by the first resurrection, here:?

Revelation 20
5The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

...

1 Peter 2:9
But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God's special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.

Revelation 1:6
He has made us a Kingdom of priests for God his Father. All glory and power to him forever and ever! Amen.

 

[zone]

I disagree with these rationalizations.

Paul said that Hymenaeus was creating problems by claiming that the resurrection had already occurred. There are two ways to look at this: 1) a physical resurrection, or 2) a spiritual resurrection. I am thinking that he taught the latter because the former doesn't make sense in the context.

Perhaps Hymenaeus is the father of amillennialism?

question (friendly):

do you believe in any form of soul sleep?

What is soul sleep? | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry < click

the reason i ask is....what do we do about that first resurrection?

is it possible they are the Apostles (at the very least)?
who are the 144,000

 

[p_rehbein]

Y'all can hang around as long as you want, s'ok with me.......BUT I'm going with HIM!

 

[zone]

Revelation 20
5The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

1 Peter 2:9
But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God's special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.

Revelation 1:6
He has made us a Kingdom of priests for God his Father. All glory and power to him forever and ever! Amen.

first death - body?
Resurrection - Judgement
second death - lake of fire


so where does the first resurrection fit in?
it's only mentioned one time in all of scripture.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

so now could you please explain what is meant by the first resurrection, here:?

Revelation 20
5The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

The first resurrection is the bodily resurrection of those in Christ when the lord returns.

 

[zone]

The first resurrection is the bodily resurrection of those in Christ when the lord returns.

okay.
so there is a second resurrection?
what and when is that?


are all those who have fallen asleep in Jesus in soul sleep of some sort until the first resurrection "the bodily resurrection of those in Christ when the lord returns."?

 

[zone]

is this figurative language?
who are these people - or more precisely, if it is literal...where are they as they cry out to God?

Revelation 6
9When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained; 10and they cried out with a loud voice, saying, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?"

...

11Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servantsc and their brothersd should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.

 

[zone]

Revelation 14
12Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus. 13And I heard a voice from heaven, saying, "Write, 'Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on!'" "Yes," says the Spirit, "so that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow with them."

...

over to the short "parenthesis"/ summary chapter....which is taking a completely different view (heaven/reigining) of the very same narrative of redemption (which has already recapitulated 5 times):

Revelation 20
Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.


John 5:24
"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

 

[zone]

here's the real issue right here:

Revelation 20
Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

if it can be shown that it is impossible for there to be a literal 1,000 year reign on earth following the Second Coming...then the term a thousand years is figurative.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

okay.
so there is a second resurrection?
what and when is that?

Why not just take what the bible says? The second resurrection is all of those not in Christ some 1000 years after the first resurrection.

 

[zone]

Why not just take what the bible says? The second resurrection is all of those not in Christ some 1000 years after the first resurrection.

alright.

so only those in Christ reign for the thousand years.

who are they reigning over - who is Jesus ruling with a rod of iron? the church?

is the church building a temple and sacrificing animals?

i want to believe what the Bible says...so if anyone can show what happens during the Millennium, it would go a very long way to putting the matter to rest for good.

what is the Millennium for...if no one is Resurrected until year 999.999?

 

[zone]

Why not just take what the bible says? The second resurrection is all of those not in Christ some 1000 years after the first resurrection.

who are these that satan rallies if there's no one but Christians (Resurrected) in the Millennium?

Revelation 20
7When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison, 8and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore

 

[zone]

Why not just take what the bible says? The second resurrection is all of those not in Christ some 1000 years after the first resurrection.

also (sorry)....where does the Bible say there is anything called The second resurrection?

never mind when it happens...where is there ever The second resurrection mentioned?

 

[zone]

who are these that satan rallies if there's no one but Christians (Resurrected) in the Millennium?

Revelation 20
7When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison, 8and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore

the only answer would be - these are flesh people (unredeemed sinners; rebels and murderers) dwelling and co-mingling with the Glorified Christ and the glorified saints...on a still-cursed earth.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

alright.
so only those in Christ reign for the thousand years.
who are they reigning over - who is Jesus ruling with a rod of iron? the church?
is the church building a temple and sacrificing animals?
i want to believe what the Bible says...so if anyone can show what happens during the Millennium, it would go a very long way to putting the matter to rest for good.
what is the Millennium for...if no one is Resurrected until year 999.999?

We've been through this before. Why do it again?

I think the far more pressing issue is the fact that Hymeneus' taught something that is the core of amillennialism: the resurrection has come into being now. Paul called Hymeneus a blasphemer.

 

[zone]

Dispensational premillennial theology - (the Kingdom on earth promised is still future)

In the 1830's Darby taught that there should be a distinction between Israel and the Church and that the prophetic scriptures to physical Israel will be literally fulfilled. This position says that those on earth are still before the thousand-year period taught in Revelation (premillennial). This view teaches that after Jesus' second coming He will literally rule on the earth for a thousand-years. In this view there is a difference between the promises of the Old Testament to the descendants of natural Israel and those who have already been born into the new covenant by faith. Dispensational theology states that God has dealt with people differently in different dispensations of time (different rules for living), thus, the theology is called Dispensationalism.

Those in this theology believe that when the times of the grafting in of the Gentiles are fulfilled, God will once again deal with the descendants of natural Israel to fulfill the literal promises in scripture directed to them. The new covenant actually was given to natural Israel without conditions but since they rejected their King they could not come into their kingdom. This gave time for the Gentiles to be grafted into the new covenant promise by God's grace. Someday the descendants of Israel will acknowledge their offense and receive their King and the new covenant promises. At that time all scripture promised to the natural descendants of Israel will be literally fulfilled.
amillennial and dispensational teaching.

Dispensationalism is sometimes misunderstood. Dispensationalism is not different ways to find salvation; it is different rules for living in each dispensation for those who are saved on the basis of their faith in God.

the OP has offered a solution to the future 1,000 year issue.

is there anything inherently wrong with it?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

also (sorry)....where does the Bible say there is anything called The second resurrection?
never mind when it happens...where is there ever The second resurrection mentioned?

Second follows first.

The rest of the dead did not come to life [resurrection] until the thousand years were completed [after the first resurrection]. This is the first resurrection. Revelation 20:5​

 

[zone]

We've been through this before. Why do it again?

because you do not have a solution

I think the far more pressing issue is the fact that Hymeneus' taught something that is the core of amillennialism: the resurrection has come into being now. Paul called Hymeneus a blasphemer.

Ephesians 2
1And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the bodya and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. 4Butb God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— 6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus

Paul also taught this.

if you can not show what the first resurrection is without committing some other form of blasphemy (a New Temple; Animal Sacrifices; Christ's Work insufficient; Salvation by Mosaic Law)....then i guess we are at a stand-still.

anyone teaching it and making the claim....ought to be able to show very clearly what happens during the DISPENSATION of the 1,000 years (Millennium) that temporary kingdom time which is different from everything that came before and after.

where is it in The Bible?

i'm not the slightest bit concerned about believing what Paul himself taught about passing from death to life now...through the miracle of the Gospel message.

if that isn't true, why am i a Christian at all?

....

anyway....i'll just have to assume that Millennialists are unable to find anything scriptural about a future 1,000 kingdom rule on this cursed earth...without doing total damage and violence to the Truth already revealed.

if they can, i'll reconsider.

k....ttyl.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

the only answer would be - these are flesh people (unredeemed sinners; rebels and murderers) dwelling and co-mingling with the Glorified Christ and the glorified saints...on a still-cursed earth.

I think a far more reasonable answer would be those not in Christ whom GOD has mercy on and doesn't destroy in his wrath at his second coming. The meek of the earth.