You canot use the verses to say it is the sabbath that is wrong
When did abrham and the others offer sacifices to God on the sabbath or in battles xyz
cain and the Sabbath
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You canot use the verses to say it is the sabbath that is wrong
When did abrham and the others offer sacifices to God on the sabbath or in battles xyz
....Cain is the seed of the serpent and Eve with no carried knowledge of good and evil from the tree because Lord God put enmity between the serpent's seed and Eve's. Eve's seed will bruise his heel(which sows, in the earthy, weakness and reaps, in time, power) and the serpent's seed will bruise thy head (which sows in dishonor / setting up Abel for a firstling of glory)
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44*It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45*And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46*Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47*The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48*As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49*And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50*Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51*Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52*In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53*For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54*So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55*O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56*The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
57*But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
(((((58*Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.))))))
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44*It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45*And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46*Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47*The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48*As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49*And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50*Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51*Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52*In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53*For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54*So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55*O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56*The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
57*But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
(((((58*Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.))))))
No way, Cain is not the offspring of the serpent. Scripture is perfectly clear on this.
Genesis: 4. 1. And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD. - Bible Offline
Either Eve was not aware where her "Cain" came from or the serpents initial encounter with Eve brought forth from that point when the serpent was Eve's desire speaking to her to be confused with the Lord. Either way corinthians 15 lays it all out. Continue down it shows what comes next... to raise Abel as immortal and Cain incorruptible. Death(spiritually) is then defeated.
I really think that some of you have this verse interpreted wrong. Here is why I think so: I don't think we have to go all through the bible to decide what this verse says, I think it is more accurate to stay with what the verse says and think of it in the timeframe it is set in. Also to check it with God principles, these are consistent from Genesis to Revelation.
Some of you make the assumption that God did not let people atone for sins until some specified time. I don't think that is scriptural. It is also not within the principles of God as bible expresses them. That blood saves, not works, is a God principle that I think God let all those who loved him know from the time of creation. God, from the beginning, wanted His creation to live with Him eternally. God would not say that all people who live before a certain time may not be absolved of their sin, I will not allow it. If that was so, then God would not be an eternal God who never changes.
Different bible interpreters were bewildered about what the original words were trying to tell us, but if you put many interpretation together, it points to that there was a time for atonement ceremonies. Not that it is important, the important thing is that Cain and Abel show that only blood atones for sin, not anything we do or achieve.
Some other posters are saying there was no Sabbath until later, and yet a study of Genesis says that there was a Sabbath from the very beginning. God worked six days and rested on the seventh, and blessed the day of rest. We are to follow that.
Some of you make the assumption that God did not let people atone for sins until some specified time. I don't think that is scriptural. It is also not within the principles of God as bible expresses them. That blood saves, not works, is a God principle that I think God let all those who loved him know from the time of creation. God, from the beginning, wanted His creation to live with Him eternally. God would not say that all people who live before a certain time may not be absolved of their sin, I will not allow it. If that was so, then God would not be an eternal God who never changes.
Different bible interpreters were bewildered about what the original words were trying to tell us, but if you put many interpretation together, it points to that there was a time for atonement ceremonies. Not that it is important, the important thing is that Cain and Abel show that only blood atones for sin, not anything we do or achieve.
Some other posters are saying there was no Sabbath until later, and yet a study of Genesis says that there was a Sabbath from the very beginning. God worked six days and rested on the seventh, and blessed the day of rest. We are to follow that.
K
Karraster
Guest
Good thread and some insightful posts here. I had always thought that God, knowing the thoughts and intents of the heart, knew the attitude and motives behind the gifts. Abel had the right attitude and pure motive, while Cain was harboring evil thoughts. Pride thinking his gift belonged to him for reason he grew it, not the right attitude it belonged to God already, while Abel thought his lamb as being God's already, not something he (Abel) created. Just my thoughts.....maybe Cain had been listening to Satan,..
When God gave us this to explain a spiritual truth, God did not tell us the attitude or motive of either Cain or Abel's heart, only that Abel gave blood and Cain what he grew. If God would have wanted us to learn about our heart in our sacrifice by this tale, God would have told us that side. I think that shows us that it is in the blood sacrifice and work sacrifice we are to listen to. That is what God told us about. We are never to add or take away from scripture.
Just my thoughts about it.
K
Karraster
Guest
You are right. Sometimes I post here like I'm sitting with a friend chatting back and forth. Thanks for commenting.
You are probably right about atonement. I just keep asking myself why atonement would not have been expressed before it we to take place. With abraham it is laid out and it's purpose is clear. Other questions like... how do cain and abel know about blood sacrifice? Chapter 15 cor shows what the actual sacrifices are. Eve out of "weakness" succumb to her inner desire that tempted her the (serpent) who brought "dishonor". Now Eve carries with her the result of her encounter in Eden, the understanding of good(abel) and the understanding of evil(cain). The Lord God actually sowed for them their iniquities(gen 2:15). Abel was "like" a keeper of sheep. His sacrifice was a firstling of the flock "with the fat there of"(celestial/heavenly) GLORY(not a literal sheep) and Cain gave fruits of the earth(STRENGTH). NO wonder the Lord wasn't happy with cain. So on to cain and abel communicating in the field. Here cain learns why his offering was no good. Good and evil are once again decernable for the spirits. Cain rose up and slew abel. No being we are still talking about "spirits" or understandings or interpretations whichever you choose to use, no one actually gets murdered here. This is not of an earthy understanding. Cain then does what he believes to be the right thing to do and he tills the earth with heavenly seeds of abel. The Lord comes and he spoke and said...where is abel....Cain then sends the offering of abel(spiritual understanding) to the Lord by repeating(gen4:2)about being a keeper of sheep because he got that from abel in the field. Then he talks about how he knows cain tilled the earth with the blood(the way) of his brother abel.(still spiritual here). Now the Lord tells cain when he tills the earth it will no longer yield it's strength to him. He has no way to offer to the lord. Total spiritual separation from God.
I am not fully understanding your post, except it seems to be that you feel it is the spiritual understanding we are to get, and not get caught up in the literal happening.
It seems to me that if we read the bible as only literal or only spiritual we miss out on what bible says. There is a connection between the literal and the spiritual and we are to learn that connection. So, God let man know spiritual truths from the beginning, and blood for atonement is an elemental spiritual truth. This is a deep and profound truth, and it really is as simple as that, too.
I read it just as you read it. I know exactly what you mean. It is literally written that way. To me I get no understanding of why 2 blood sacrifices will need to be made when God is scraping that generation of SPIRITS all together. The real generations (literal) EARTHY begin with the generations of Adam....
Gen 5 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
2*Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created....,.......
No literal sacrifice is needed until the days of abraham.
For me gen 2-4 are how the earthly bodies, man or woman(same mentioned in gen 1), reject the spirit of God.
Gen 5 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
2*Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created....,.......
No literal sacrifice is needed until the days of abraham.
For me gen 2-4 are how the earthly bodies, man or woman(same mentioned in gen 1), reject the spirit of God.
An offering...
Then Adam wept more and said, "O God, have mercy on me, so far as to take upon Thee, that which I will do."
But God took His Word from Adam and Eve.
Then Adam and Eve stood on their feet; and Adam said to Eve "Gird thyself, and I also will gird myself." And she girded herself, as Adam told her.
Then Adam and Eve took stones and placed them in the shape of an altar; and they took leaves from the trees outside the garden, with which they wiped, from the face of the rock, the blood they had spilled.
But that which had dropped on the sand, they took together with the dust wherewith it was mingled and offered it upon the altar as an offering unto God.
Then Adam and Eve stood under the altar and wept, thus entreating God, "Forgive us our trespass and our sin, and look upon us with Thine eye of mercy. For when we were in the garden our praises and our hymns went up before Thee without ceasing.
"But when we came into this strange land, pure praise was no longer ours, nor righteous prayer, nor understanding hearts, nor sweet thoughts, nor just counsels, nor long discernment, nor upright feelings, neither is our bright nature left us. But our body is changed from the similitude in which it was at first, when we were created.
"Yet now look upon our blood which is offered upon these stones, and accept it at our hands, like the praise we used to sing unto Thee at first, when in the garden."
And Adam began to make more requests unto God.
Then the merciful God, good and lover of men, looked upon Adam and Eve, and upon their blood, which they had held up as an offering unto Him; without an order from Him for so doing. But He wondered at them; and accepted their offerings.
And God sent from His presence a bright fire, that consumed their offering.
He smelt the sweet savour of their offering, and showed them mercy.
Then came the Word of God to Adam, and said unto him, "O Adam, as thou hast shed thy blood, so will I shed My own blood when I become flesh of thy seed; and as thou didst die, O Adam, so also will I die. And as thou didst build an altar, so also will I make for thee an altar on the earth; and as thou didst offer thy blood upon it, so also will I offer My blood upon an altar on the earth."
"And as thou didst sue for forgiveness through that blood, so also will I make My blood forgiveness of sins, and blot out transgressions in it."
"And now, behold, I have accepted thy offering, O Adam, but the days of the covenant, wherein I have bound thee, are not fulfilled. When they are fulfilled, then will I bring thee back into the garden."
"Now, therefore, strengthen thy heart; and when sorrow comes upon thee, make Me an offering, and I will be favourable to thee."
But when Adam saw that the elder brother hated the younger, he endeavoured to soften their hearts, and said unto Cain, "Take, O my son, of the fruits of thy sowing, and make an offering unto God, that He may forgive thee thy wickedness and thy sin."
He said also to Abel, "Take thou of thy sowing and make an offering and bring it to God, that He may forgive thy wickedness and thy sin."
Then Abel hearkened unto his father's voice, and took of his sowing, and made a good offering, and said to his father, Adam, "Come with me, to show me how to offer it up."
And they went, Adam and Eve with him, and showed him how to offer up his gift upon the altar. Then after that, they stood up and prayed that God would accept Abel's offering.
Then God looked upon Abel and accepted his offering. And God was more pleased with Abel than with his offering, because of his good heart and pure body. There was no trace of guile in him.
Then they came down from the altar, and went to the cave in which they dwelt. But Abel, by reason of his joy at having made his offering, repeated it three times a week, after the example of his father Adam.
But as to Cain, he took no pleasure in offering; but after much anger on his father's part, he offered up his gift once; and when he did offer up, his eye was on the offering he made, and he took the smallest of his sheep for an offering, and his eye was again on it.
Therefore God did not accept his offering, because his heart was full of murderous thoughts.
And they all thus lived together in the cave in which Eve had brought forth, until Cain was fifteen years old, and Abel twelve years old.
Adam and Eve gird themselves and make the first altar ever built.
Then Adam wept more and said, "O God, have mercy on me, so far as to take upon Thee, that which I will do."
But God took His Word from Adam and Eve.
Then Adam and Eve stood on their feet; and Adam said to Eve "Gird thyself, and I also will gird myself." And she girded herself, as Adam told her.
Then Adam and Eve took stones and placed them in the shape of an altar; and they took leaves from the trees outside the garden, with which they wiped, from the face of the rock, the blood they had spilled.
But that which had dropped on the sand, they took together with the dust wherewith it was mingled and offered it upon the altar as an offering unto God.
Then Adam and Eve stood under the altar and wept, thus entreating God, "Forgive us our trespass and our sin, and look upon us with Thine eye of mercy. For when we were in the garden our praises and our hymns went up before Thee without ceasing.
"But when we came into this strange land, pure praise was no longer ours, nor righteous prayer, nor understanding hearts, nor sweet thoughts, nor just counsels, nor long discernment, nor upright feelings, neither is our bright nature left us. But our body is changed from the similitude in which it was at first, when we were created.
"Yet now look upon our blood which is offered upon these stones, and accept it at our hands, like the praise we used to sing unto Thee at first, when in the garden."
And Adam began to make more requests unto God.
A vivid prophecy of the life and death of Christ.
Then the merciful God, good and lover of men, looked upon Adam and Eve, and upon their blood, which they had held up as an offering unto Him; without an order from Him for so doing. But He wondered at them; and accepted their offerings.
And God sent from His presence a bright fire, that consumed their offering.
He smelt the sweet savour of their offering, and showed them mercy.
Then came the Word of God to Adam, and said unto him, "O Adam, as thou hast shed thy blood, so will I shed My own blood when I become flesh of thy seed; and as thou didst die, O Adam, so also will I die. And as thou didst build an altar, so also will I make for thee an altar on the earth; and as thou didst offer thy blood upon it, so also will I offer My blood upon an altar on the earth."
"And as thou didst sue for forgiveness through that blood, so also will I make My blood forgiveness of sins, and blot out transgressions in it."
"And now, behold, I have accepted thy offering, O Adam, but the days of the covenant, wherein I have bound thee, are not fulfilled. When they are fulfilled, then will I bring thee back into the garden."
"Now, therefore, strengthen thy heart; and when sorrow comes upon thee, make Me an offering, and I will be favourable to thee."
Cain, 15 years old, and Abel 12 years old, grow apart.
But when Adam saw that the elder brother hated the younger, he endeavoured to soften their hearts, and said unto Cain, "Take, O my son, of the fruits of thy sowing, and make an offering unto God, that He may forgive thee thy wickedness and thy sin."
He said also to Abel, "Take thou of thy sowing and make an offering and bring it to God, that He may forgive thy wickedness and thy sin."
Then Abel hearkened unto his father's voice, and took of his sowing, and made a good offering, and said to his father, Adam, "Come with me, to show me how to offer it up."
And they went, Adam and Eve with him, and showed him how to offer up his gift upon the altar. Then after that, they stood up and prayed that God would accept Abel's offering.
Then God looked upon Abel and accepted his offering. And God was more pleased with Abel than with his offering, because of his good heart and pure body. There was no trace of guile in him.
Then they came down from the altar, and went to the cave in which they dwelt. But Abel, by reason of his joy at having made his offering, repeated it three times a week, after the example of his father Adam.
But as to Cain, he took no pleasure in offering; but after much anger on his father's part, he offered up his gift once; and when he did offer up, his eye was on the offering he made, and he took the smallest of his sheep for an offering, and his eye was again on it.
Therefore God did not accept his offering, because his heart was full of murderous thoughts.
And they all thus lived together in the cave in which Eve had brought forth, until Cain was fifteen years old, and Abel twelve years old.
When scripture says that Cain and Abel sacrificed, what basis do you have then for your thought that no sacrifice is needed until Abraham. If there were no provisions made by God for atonement, and man is born in sin, that would be saying that all men were doomed to death until Abraham. There would be no need for the flood or for men to listen to God at all, then, until Abraham.
Man had no way of knowing he sinned. The law did not come till Moses but the idea was brewing at abraham. There is no mention of "sin" till later. People reading the Bible imply acts in the beginning of genesis as sin. Have a man sinned if he doesnt know he committed sin? No one listened to God until Noah except enoch that's only because God revealed himself to them two. Everyone else had been separated from him.
But scripture says that God built in to our very selves a knowing of right and wrong. According to scripture, the law is part of who God is. How could Noah know about what God wanted if the law wasn't simply part of our world? If you analyze the way God wrote down law for how we were to live it out in our lives, you see that love is the basis of everything God says. Love your neighbor, don't steal from him. Love God, live your life within His kingdom. I don't think you can say that man had no knowledge of love, or right and wrong until Moses told them how to live within it. God didn't select Noah and Enoch only to love, to God all He created was equal. God didn't withhold knowledge of right and wrong to all men except those two, it was that man didn't listen to God.
Anything that is sown before abraham is in vain. The scripture prior to abraham is for the return with Christ.
C
chubbena
Guest
KJV Gen 2:2-3
And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
C
chubbena
Guest
Romans 5:12 When Adam sinned, sin entered the entire human race. Adam's sin brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone sinned.