God has future animal sacrifices planned
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Animal sacrifices were to point to the coming sacrifice of Christ. In the future, they will do the same thing. This is why we read...
Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
No human, even in the Millenium, will be perfect. The Passover will still be observed to point to the sacrifice Christ made once for all.
Animal sacrifices cannot remit sin. There are two ways sin is paid for, either the sinner dies for his sins, or One dies in His place.
The same reason anyone is responsible for their inherited tendency to alcoholism, responsible in the sense that it does not excuse illegal behavior.
The same way you are responsible for your inherited tendency to alcoholism when you act illegallay as the result of it.
this is grotesque.
there will BE NO ANIMAL SACRIFICES EVER AGAIN except by blasphemers (who are already looking forward to it).
go back to the beginning and start over.
your worn out tortured OT prophecies are fulfilled.
Oh yeah, but we agree that salvation is by Jesus Christ alone,
that he died for sin,
that he was buried,
that he rose from the dead,
that he will come again to judge the living and the dead.
M
morninglory
Guest
You kind of missed the point, it did please the Lord when they had a contrite heart, as with Cain and Abel, but under the law of Moses, sacrifice was required to be exempt from plagues(Ex.30.12). However, God did not ever at any point enjoy animals being killed. Is God against those of today that are not vegitarians? Jesus ate fish after he became the eternal sacrifice, is it mean to kill an animal but not a fish? Some on this site seem to think that way.
On what is your opinion based?
Sacrifices were for atonement of sin (Lev 17:11) which brought reconciliation with God.
I think God took pleasure in reconciliation.
Only part of the animal was offered on the altar in most sacrifices.
In many sacrifices, the priest was given the remainer to eat, and in the fellowship offering the Israelite was also given some of it to eat.
Inadequate understanding of Heb 6:4-6.
2Th 1:8-9 is condemnation of unbelief (Mk 1:16).
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Of course it's grotesque. How grotesque do you suppose it was for God's Perfect Lamb to die on the cross of Calvary? It is supposed to be grotesque because it is so offensive to a Holy and Pure God.
Is Israel in the land? All of the land God promised them? If not then all the prophecies have not been fulfilled.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
1
1still_waters
Guest
Ok cool. So you have room for Christ ruling even when there is wickedness around.
You're close to being amil.
I don't subscribe to any of those *mil labels. I just believe the time frame revealed in the scriptures.
B
BradC
Guest
It would be good for anyone to show me that the term 'remnant' that applies to a redeemed people other than the people of Israel. You can use old or new testament, doesn't matter. Make sure you give the scriptures so that I can look them up for myself. Thanks
BradC
BradC
they received and lived in the land as he promised.
fulfilled.
but you don't believe the bible.
So today I happened to be reading Ezekiel 40. The intro in my ESV version says "Ezekiel 40-48 is one of the most difficult passages in the entire Bible to understand." It gives 4 alternate proposals for this temple and the animal sacrifices.
1. Literal fulfillment, with a rebuilt temple, Israel dwelling in the land according to the tribes, along with the literal animal sacrifices, as per the topic of this thread. (See Rev. 20 for millennial kingdom)
2. A detailed metaphor predicting the presence of God among his people in the new covenant age.
3. Symbolic vision which predicts God's presence among his people in the new heavens and new earth. Worship and sacrifice are symbols of the centrality of the worship of God. The temple represents the orderliness and beauty of God's heavenly dwelling place; the priests and the sacrifices represent the service and the worship of all God's people, the division of the land represents the allocation of places to live for all God's people, the river represents the outward flow of God's blessings to his people forever.
4. A combination of both literal and symbolic elements in this vision, which describe future realities which cannot be fully expressed in terms of Ezekiel's present realities.
Probably what best expresses the temple described in Ezekiel in every case is the actual presence of God within the temple of the community of God. The vision also presupposes threads and themes of earlier oracles:
- the supremacy of God
- the requirements necessitated by his holiness
- revitalization by the Spirit of God
- honoring God by living in accord with his holiness
- ensuring the sanctity of the community by maintaining divine justice.
Option 1 - Since I do not believe that Rev. 20 is a literal 1000 years, (It only appears in one chapter in the Bible, not enough to make an entire doctrine about!) I reject that explanation. It also does point to how erroneous dispensationalism is, because if you have to build a literal temple, you need literal sacrifices and Hebrews 10 has already dealt with the fact that they is not needed.
Option 2 sounds interesting, I wish it had been expanded on a bit more.
Option 3 is a bit too symbolic for me. It sounds nice, but a little bit too much interpretation outside the Bible.
Option 4 is a possibility, but I am not sure where the literal comes in, and where the symbolic or metaphorical leaves off.
So that is 4 scholarly opinions, none of which I am happy with. I will agree that there is a very strong picture of the sovereignty of God, and his holiness and justice. I guess that works best for me.
But animal sacrifices? Really, why don't people actually read the Bible, about 25 times without footnotes, then get some scholarly sources and commentaries and read them. Scofield has really done a tremendous amount of damage to the cause of Christ.
As for IntotheVoid, my only question is - have you never done anything you knew was wrong in your life? That alone is sin, for which you cannot atone!
1. Literal fulfillment, with a rebuilt temple, Israel dwelling in the land according to the tribes, along with the literal animal sacrifices, as per the topic of this thread. (See Rev. 20 for millennial kingdom)
2. A detailed metaphor predicting the presence of God among his people in the new covenant age.
3. Symbolic vision which predicts God's presence among his people in the new heavens and new earth. Worship and sacrifice are symbols of the centrality of the worship of God. The temple represents the orderliness and beauty of God's heavenly dwelling place; the priests and the sacrifices represent the service and the worship of all God's people, the division of the land represents the allocation of places to live for all God's people, the river represents the outward flow of God's blessings to his people forever.
4. A combination of both literal and symbolic elements in this vision, which describe future realities which cannot be fully expressed in terms of Ezekiel's present realities.
Probably what best expresses the temple described in Ezekiel in every case is the actual presence of God within the temple of the community of God. The vision also presupposes threads and themes of earlier oracles:
- the supremacy of God
- the requirements necessitated by his holiness
- revitalization by the Spirit of God
- honoring God by living in accord with his holiness
- ensuring the sanctity of the community by maintaining divine justice.
Option 1 - Since I do not believe that Rev. 20 is a literal 1000 years, (It only appears in one chapter in the Bible, not enough to make an entire doctrine about!) I reject that explanation. It also does point to how erroneous dispensationalism is, because if you have to build a literal temple, you need literal sacrifices and Hebrews 10 has already dealt with the fact that they is not needed.
Option 2 sounds interesting, I wish it had been expanded on a bit more.
Option 3 is a bit too symbolic for me. It sounds nice, but a little bit too much interpretation outside the Bible.
Option 4 is a possibility, but I am not sure where the literal comes in, and where the symbolic or metaphorical leaves off.
So that is 4 scholarly opinions, none of which I am happy with. I will agree that there is a very strong picture of the sovereignty of God, and his holiness and justice. I guess that works best for me.
But animal sacrifices? Really, why don't people actually read the Bible, about 25 times without footnotes, then get some scholarly sources and commentaries and read them. Scofield has really done a tremendous amount of damage to the cause of Christ.
As for IntotheVoid, my only question is - have you never done anything you knew was wrong in your life? That alone is sin, for which you cannot atone!
zone: I know that we discussed the land distribution of Ezekiel 48 - where the twelve tribes were given land running east to west - a portion running east to west for Dan, a portion running east to west for Asher bordering Dan, a portion running east to west for Naphtali bordering Asher, a portion running east to west for Manasseh bordering Naphtali, a portion running east to west for Ephraim bordering Manasseh, a portion running east to west for Reuben bordering Ephraim and a portion running east to west for Judah bordering Reuben . . . .
In the center running east to west bordering Reuben for the Lord even for the priests, the sons of Zadok and against that border the priests of Levites a portion - then a measured portion for the city for dwelling and for suburbs and the city shall be in the midst - and the residue of the holy portion shall be for the prince on the one side and on the other of the holy portion and of the possession of the city and the sanctuary of the house shall be in the midst thereof . . .
Then rest of the tribes will receive a portion - running east to west for Benjamin, running east to west a portion for Simeon bordering Benjamin, a portion running east to west for Issachar bordering Simeon, a portion running east to west for Zebulun bordering Issachar, a portion running east to west for Gad bordering Zebulun . . .
There are twelve gates of the city named after the tribes of Israel. . . .and the name of the city from that day shall be, The Lord is there.
You said this was already done after the twelve tribes release from captivity. My question: I have looked for a map showing this distribution of land to the children of Israel (twelve tribes) and I can only find the distribution given by Joshua. Do you know of any map depicting the above distribution? Who is the "prince" that will dwell in the midst with the priests and the holy city? I am not even going to pretend that I know as much concerning this history as you do, and I really would like to see this map. The land seems to be distributed into strips running east to west with the priest and the prince living in the center with the holy city also placed in the center.
Thanks.
peaceful....i don't know what to say
if you need to believe that ezekiel's temple is a literal future temple; that God is looking forward to, and leading us to reinsituted animal sacrifices and mosiac something; that Israel didn't receive all the good things the Lord promised (per Joshua, then under David and even Solomon...) - finding it's INTENDED GLORIOUS REALITY (and not shadow-type good things) in Jesus CHRIST THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS, i can't say much.
i know you use the Bullinger Bible. that is hyper-dispensationalism.
which is very difficult to come out of.
i wish you would put it away. it's not good.
i could help if you decide you would like try.
i hope you'll consider it.
Hyper Dispensationalism
The distinctive doctrines of dispensationalism have been most consistently taught by a movement variously identified as Hyperdispensationalism, Ultradispensationalism, Consistent dispensationalism or Bullingerism. The movement had its origin in the teaching of Ethelbert W. Bullinger. Bullinger was a descendant of Heinrich Bullinger, the successor of Zwingli. Bullinger’s teaching separated Israel and the church even more radically than Darby or Scofield, placing the beginning of the church with the imprisonment of Paul in Rome.There was no beginning of a church on that day of Pentecost. 35
Bullinger’s schemes show the weaknesses in traditional dispensational interpretation, and set out to solve them with consistent dispensational application. Bullinger was one of the first to admit that the Old Testament saints were to arise at the end of the tribulation, and came up with a program of multiple resurrections. Most dispensationalists see the gospel of Matthew as a Jewish book with the Jews in mind in the apocalyptic chapters 24 & 25, yet wish to preserve the Great Commission as applicable to the church. Consistent dispensationalists assign the Commission to a future Jewish remnant church.
Dispensationalism: A Return to Biblical Theology or Pseudo Christian Cult – Appendix & Glossary by Gospel Plow
Dispensationalism: A Return to Biblical Theology or Pseudo Christian Cult – Appendix & Glossary by Gospel Plow
and so on.
i'd be far more concerned about Bullingerism than asking about particular borders under Joshua compared to the State of Israel's plans for Greater Israel (same foundation).
i care about you peaceful.
love zone.
H
Hoffco
Guest
I am waiting for Zones chart showing how after the 69th week Jesus died and then where does the last 7 yrs fix in to you interpretation. ? you say all 70 wks has happen , How, where are the dates? And how come God has established Israel as a nation today, if God is finished dealing with Israel?? The "gap" theory makes more sense. Hoffco