Women and teaching in the church

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mystdancer50

Senior Member
Feb 26, 2012
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There are so many here that believe they know, without a doubt, the mind of God. They believe that they are 100% correct and refuse to truly engage in the thinking process required to process things spoken. I do not profess to know the mind of God. I do not have such arrogance. Paul, as well, did not profess to have such arrogance. If one reads his letters carefully, he is very astute in his wording and is sure to let the readers know when it is him and when it is Christ. If only we could do the same.
 
G

GreenNnice

Guest
I agree, men should preach and teach in the majority of positions in the church, but that God can use women to both preach and teach. I think, Paul understands that,too, for Paul never says 'A woman can NEVER preach or teach men' anywhere in his epistles written by God's inspired instruction.

Paul says that he does not permit a woman to preach or teach over a man.

Now, the word 'permit' needs analyzed, I guess, but to me, 'permit,' or, even 'suffer,' means that Paul does not give authority of a woman to preach or teach over a man.
But, someone else, besides Paul, who is in authority of a different church gathering, could, indeed, give a woman an opportunity to preach or teach over a man.

God's ways are not our ways and His thoughts are not our thoughts, Isaiah 55 tells us.


Paul does not allow a man or a woman to preach or teach a man, that is clear in 1 Timothy 2:11-12, but, there are women in the New Testament that had positions of an esteemed calling, namely, Phoebe, who Paul speaks of in Romans 16 as being a 'deacon' or 'servant,' depending on which version you read.

So, that said, Phoebe appeared to be with more of a role than your average servant, that is, someone who was serving behind the scenes in the church. She seemed to be a presence that did things in more active ways of leadership, like duties underneath the main minister. That being the case, although Phoebe was not a minister, or, priest, she was 2nd in the hierarchy at her church in Cenchreae. A 'deacon' is a someone who has some authority in the church.
That said, it is easy to say that a woman may not be able to preach or teach in Paul's missive to the Corinthinans as said in 1 Timothy 2, but, in Romans, backing up a few books of the bible, indeed, a woman can be of a powerful hierarchy position in the church.

The word 'servant' is oft discussed, what does a servant do in a church, what roles do they fulfill? I think, if you think that 'servant' means serving the potluck only and what I'd call honey-do things, then, you are sadly mistaken. This 'servant' role in the church back in Phoebe's time was in a spiritual leadership role as a teacher. Now, the bible does not say specifically but Phoebe may have only been a teacher for the women of the church in Cenchreae.

dea·con (d
k
n)n.1. A cleric ranking just below a priest in the Anglican, Eastern Orthodox, and Roman Catholic churches.

2. A Protestant layperson who assists the minister in various functions.



I also think a'woman should learn in 'quietness and full submission' of 1 Tim. 2:11 is a follow-through verse of Paul from the book before Ephesians, where Paul says that women (NOT women who are pastors of a church, or teachers, these ARE laywomen) should submit to men 'in everything,' which I agree with, but, again, a woman is not to keep submitting to a man who is abusing her. There are exceptions to the 'majority rule.' :)

The Lord leads. His Spirit will lead us all to the Truth He gives us from this most controversial of topics in the bible's 66 books.

Here is Ephesians 5 for perpsective, not to mention, Truth, of what I speak in MY words, I pray are from Him :)

Ephesians 5 :
21 Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ. 22Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. 23For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.
 
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Nov 15, 2013
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CONTROVERSIAL QUESTIONS ARE A TOOL OF SATAN! AVOID THEM! WE HAVE A GOOD EXAMPLE WITH THIS THREAD!!!
HE WHO does not consent to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which accords with godliness, 4 he is proud, knowing nothing, but is obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife, reviling, evil suspicions, 5 useless wranglings of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. From such withdraw yourself. 1 TIMOTHY 6:3-5== TRY not to strive about words to no profit, to the ruin of the hearers. 15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 16 But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness. 17 And their message will spread like cancer.==23=avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife.​
 
Nov 26, 2013
737
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I agree, men should preach and teach in the majority of positions in the church, but that God can use women to both preach and teach. I think, Paul understands that,too, for Paul never says 'A woman can NEVER preach or teach men' anywhere in his epistles written by God's inspired instruction.

Paul says that he does not permit a woman to preach or teach over a man.

Now, the word 'permit' needs analyzed, I guess, but to me, 'permit,' or, even 'suffer,' means that Paul does not give authority of a woman to preach or teach over a man.
But, someone else, besides Paul, who is in authority of a different church gathering, could, indeed, give a woman an opportunity to preach or teach over a man.

God's ways are not our ways and His thoughts are not our thoughts, Isaiah 55 tells us.


Paul does not allow a man or a woman to preach or teach a man, that is clear in 1 Timothy 2:11-12, but, there are women in the New Testament that had positions of an esteemed calling, namely, Phoebe, who Paul speaks of in Romans 16 as being a 'deacon' or 'servant,' depending on which version you read.

So, that said, Phoebe appeared to be with more of a role than your average servant, that is, someone who was serving behind the scenes in the church. She seemed to be a presence that did things in more active ways of leadership, like duties underneath the main minister. That being the case, although Phoebe was not a minister, or, priest, she was 2nd in the hierarchy at her church in Cenchreae. A 'deacon' is a someone who has some authority in the church.
That said, it is easy to say that a woman may not be able to preach or teach in Paul's missive to the Corinthinans as said in 1 Timothy 2, but, in Romans, backing up a few books of the bible, indeed, a woman can be of a powerful hierarchy position in the church.

The word 'servant' is oft discussed, what does a servant do in a church, what roles do they fulfill? I think, if you think that 'servant' means serving the potluck only and what I'd call honey-do things, then, you are sadly mistaken. This 'servant' role in the church back in Phoebe's time was in a spiritual leadership role as a teacher. Now, the bible does not say specifically but Phoebe may have only been a teacher for the women of the church in Cenchreae.

dea·con (d
k
n)n.1. A cleric ranking just below a priest in the Anglican, Eastern Orthodox, and Roman Catholic churches.

2. A Protestant layperson who assists the minister in various functions.



I also think a'woman should learn in 'quietness and full submission' is a follow-through comment by Paul from the book before Ephesians, where Paul says that women should submit to men 'in everything,' which I agree with, but, again, a woman is not to keep submitting to a man who is abusing her. There are exceptions to the 'majority rule.' :)

The Lord leads. His Spirit will lead us all to the Truth He gives us from this most controversial of topics in the bible's 66 books.

Why do many think that a male pastor wife automaticall becomes a pastor ? just because she is the wife of the pastor
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63


i love that one on the right. beautiful.
i wonder if its too sheer, though.
 
Nov 26, 2013
737
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There are so many here that believe they know, without a doubt, the mind of God. They believe that they are 100% correct and refuse to truly engage in the thinking process required to process things spoken. I do not profess to know the mind of God. I do not have such arrogance. Paul, as well, did not profess to have such arrogance. If one reads his letters carefully, he is very astute in his wording and is sure to let the readers know when it is him and when it is Christ. If only we could do the same.
Why does it say a deacon must be a husband of one wife if many claim that there were female deacons ?

1 Timothy 3:12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.

It does not say

Let the deacons be the wife of one husband , ruling their children and their own houses well.
 
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mystdancer50

Senior Member
Feb 26, 2012
2,522
50
48
Why do many think that a male pastor wife automaticall becomes a pastor ? just because she is the wife of the pastor
I think they just assume that she will be called to lead alongside her husband. I know Pastors whose wives are preachers/teachers/chaplains and I know Pastors whose wives lead song service and youth/children ministries, along with women's ministries and I know Pastors wives who are just as godly and support their husbands without any leadership role at all.

This is why we dare not assume we know the mind of God absolutely. Can we say why God calls some to preach and others not to? Why some who are so charismatic you'd follow them off a cliff are kept from preaching and some who stutter (i.e. Moses) are called to lead nations to freedom? God uses the weak to confuse the strong. To God be all the glory. That matters most and is so vital. Who receives the glory?

I know this wasn't a question directed toward me and that I didn't really and truly answer it, but these are some thoughts I had. :)
 
G

GreenNnice

Guest
God's word give us guidelines
Why do many think that a male pastor wife automaticall becomes a pastor ? just because she is the wife of the pastor
I'm not sure what you are saying here, ToHiswater, could you explain further, I realize, you are from a different country and may be translation through Google translation or similar.

A woman is to be in submission to her man in the service, that is clear in 1 Corinthians 14:34-35, I don't disagree with that one bit. But, a woman, who IS a pastor, is an entirely different scenario as she is in a different role than the woman who is to 'learn in quietness and in full submission.' :)
 
Nov 15, 2013
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HAS GOD REALLY SAID?????? AND SHE TOOK AND ATE AND GAVE TO HER HUSBAN AND THE ENTIRE CREATION AS A RESULT IS IN RUIN!!!
 
I

Imperfect

Guest
You mean Abraham don't you?

I don't understand your post. Are you agreeing or disagreeing with mine?
yea abraham. you right, my mistake.

and im agreeing but adding on to your post where i seen fit.
 
B

BananaPie

Guest
Maybe the question should be changed. Why does it matter so much?
Exactly. Why does it matter so much? It matters because God is Sovereign to decide gender roles.

Women want control God hasn't allowed for them to have, while some men don't want the responsibility to lead, giving way for women to wear the pants.
:rolleyes:

Yet, God is Sovereign over all the Earth, and in God's holy opinion the brethren (males) are to lead the Church, and the women are to be in submission, yes, silent, in matters of the Church. Anybody who has a problem with God's sovereign opinion is already in disagreement with holy matters. ...just saying. :)
 
D

didymos

Guest
Guys like you are going to be silent for a 1,000 years or so, when Paul greets you on the new earth and soundly slaps you for being so silly in your interpretation to what and why he was saying, what he did in 1 Cor 14 and 1 Tim 2.
Sure, and St. Peter stands at the pearly gates too... :rolleyes:
 
I

Imperfect

Guest
This is where you are pulling one line out of a post out of context, much like many do with Scripture.
i read it... and the rest of your post is just an extension on the quoted text.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
If you ever do a word study on the tree of knowledge of good and evil, you see the two sides of natural man. A man can either control a woman with an iron fist so to speak, or with gentleness.

The woman in the two sides, wants to "be the man" or be under him.

In the Spirit....both Yeshua and Paul teaches....there is neither gender.

Both are equal.

Do you all know that you are Spirit and no longer "flesh"?
 
G

GreenNnice

Guest


Why does it say a deacon must be a husband of one wife if many claim that there were female decons

1 Timothy 3:12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.

It does not say

Let the deacons be the wife of one husband , ruling their children and their own houses well.
OK, I understand what is being asked now, ruthhannahwomanofHis.

Good question.

Here's a good answer: A deacon is to the husband of one wife. This is how Paul thought, therefore, Paul is not going to say "A deacon is to be the wife of one husband." Paul would be going against the very thing he said was of sufferage to him.
 
Nov 26, 2013
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I'm not sure what you are saying here, ToHiswater, could you explain further, I realize, you are from a different country and may be translation through Google translation or similar.

A woman is to be in submission to her man in the service, that is clear in 1 Corinthians 14:34-35, I don't disagree with that one bit. But, a woman, who IS a pastor, is an entirely different scenario as she is in a different role than the woman who is to 'learn in quietness and in full submission.' :)

Where in the bible does it mentioned women pastors or priest ?
 

mystdancer50

Senior Member
Feb 26, 2012
2,522
50
48


Why does it say a deacon must be a husband of one wife if many claim that there were female decons

1 Timothy 3:12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.

It does not say

Let the deacons be the wife of one husband , ruling their children and their own houses well.
Based on the definition of the word deacon:

one who executes the commands of another, esp. of a master, a servant, attendant, minister
  1. the servant of a king
  2. a deacon, one who, by virtue of the office assigned to him by the church, cares for the poor and has charge of and distributes the money collected for their use
  3. a waiter, one who serves food and drink

I would say that it is because in those days they handled the money and the distribution thereof, served the king, were waiters, and executed the commands of another, that these were all manly roles.

As to those saying women were deacons, I didn't say that, so I can't say one way or the other. I never looked into it. I say women can preach or teach in churches, if the Lord has called them to do so. That isn't the definition of a deacon. That isn't to say that women can't be deacons, but, as I said, I haven't looked at that.
 
I

Imperfect

Guest
CONTROVERSIAL QUESTIONS ARE A TOOL OF SATAN! AVOID THEM! WE HAVE A GOOD EXAMPLE WITH THIS THREAD!!!
HE WHO does not consent to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which accords with godliness, 4 he is proud, knowing nothing, but is obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife, reviling, evil suspicions, 5 useless wranglings of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. From such withdraw yourself. 1 TIMOTHY 6:3-5== TRY not to strive about words to no profit, to the ruin of the hearers. 15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 16 But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness. 17 And their message will spread like cancer.==23=avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife.​
this thread wasnt made for debate, actually, but i see where it can be taken that way. i really just wanted the scripture where it says the woman is not to teach and remain silent.

asking for the scripture and how you feel about the instruction is different than saying, "im not understanding this, can somebody clear this up".
 
Nov 26, 2013
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OK, I understand what is being asked now, ruthhannahwomanofHis.

Good question.

Here's a good answer: A deacon is to the husband of one wife. This is how Paul thought, therefore, Paul is not going to say "A deacon is to be the wife of one husband." Paul would be going against the very thing he said was of sufferage to him.

lets say if Paul had said this

Let the deacons be the wife of one husband
, ruling their children and their own houses well.


What gender is a deacon suppose to be ?

 
Nov 26, 2013
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this thread wasnt made for debate, actually, but i see where it can be taken that way. i really just wanted the scripture where it says the woman is not to teach and remain silent.

asking for the scripture and how you feel about the instruction is different than saying, "im not understanding this, can somebody clear this up".

I think he is stuck on thoses verse whole time probaly that is all he knows just saying
 
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