Neat Discovery About John 3:13

[KJV1611]

And no man hath ascended up to heaven: A reference to His future ascension into Heaven after His resurrection

but he that came down from heaven: Referring to His incarnation

even the Son of man which is in heaven: In spirit, Christ during His incarnation, stood before the Throne of God in Heaven, even as Elijah did, or put it another way, although His feet were upon the earth, His mind was in Heaven, before the Throne of God. 1kings 17v1

Also note, during His incarnation Christ was NOT omnipresent! Phil 2v5-11

QED!

I see what you're saying jb, but I don't believe we can handle the word of God that way. Let me show you what I mean. Every word in the bible is there by divine inspiration (no matter what scholars say about translations). Every word literally means what it says.

When Jesus said this, he literally meant what he said - no man had ascended up to heaven at that point. There are 2 ways to get into heaven, enter through the righteousness of Christ or work your way to heaven by never breaking the law. No one made it to heaven by works until Jesus came and fulfilled the law. He was the first to ascend to heaven. He was able to do this because he was God in the flesh.

I agree with you, Christ was not omnipresent on this earth. If Jesus said he was in heaven when he was actually still on earth then then the heaven he was talking about was not the heaven where the father resides. According to the bible Jesus brought the kingdom of heaven to this earth and that's the heaven the Son of man was talking about.

To me this passage affirms the fact that we now live in the kingdom of heaven and it helps me understand what the bible is talking about when it talks about "the kingdom of heaven". Many people mistake these bible verses about the kingdom as meaning heaven where God's throne is.

 

[KJV1611]

I wont argue with you Isdaniel. If you can't see that Melchisedec is Jesus, there is nothing I can say to convince you otherwise.

Heb 7:1 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
Heb 7:2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;
Heb 7:3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

Priest of the same order as Christ.
Abraham tithed to him.
He is the King of Righteousness
No mother, no father, no descent, no beginning of days no end of days... he is eternal and not a created being.

If Melchisedec isn't Jesus then the Godhead is more than 3... not!

 

[Isdaniel]

I wont argue with you Isdaniel. If you can't see that Melchisedec is Jesus, there is nothing I can say to convince you otherwise.

Heb 7:1 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
Heb 7:2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;
Heb 7:3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

Priest of the same order as Christ.
Abraham tithed to him.
He is the King of Righteousness
No mother, no father, no descent, no beginning of days no end of days... he is eternal and not a created being.

If Melchisedec isn't Jesus then the Godhead is more than 3... not!

i dont argue i reason the scripture

Who was Adam mother or father ?

What was Jesus funtion in the heavens before He came and died ? Was it a priest ?

 

[Isdaniel]

I wont argue with you Isdaniel. If you can't see that Melchisedec is Jesus, there is nothing I can say to convince you otherwise.

Heb 7:1 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
Heb 7:2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;
Heb 7:3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

Priest of the same order as Christ.
Abraham tithed to him.
He is the King of Righteousness
No mother, no father, no descent, no beginning of days no end of days... he is eternal and not a created being.

If Melchisedec isn't Jesus then the Godhead is more than 3... not!

One simple question i am not argueing okk please tell me who is this on the white cloud ? Why ?

Revelation 14:14

King James Version (KJV)

14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

 

[KJV1611]

i dont argue i reason the scripture

Who was Adam mother or father ?

What was Jesus funtion in the heavens before He came and died ? Was it a priest ?

Adams father was God.
Luk_3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

His function in the beginning was creating the world.
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

His function after that was to lead the children of Israel.
1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

 

[KJV1611]

One simple question i am not argueing okk please tell me who is this on the white cloud ? Why ?

Revelation 14:14

King James Version (KJV)

14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

This is Jesus. This is not a future event, this is the first coming of Jesus when he brought in the kingdom. He is reaping the harvest of the earth. The sharp sickle is the bible. The parallel to this verse is here:

Joh 4:35 Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This is Jesus. This is not a future event, this is the first coming of Jesus when he brought in the kingdom. He is reaping the harvest of the earth. The sharp sickle is the bible. The parallel to this verse is here:

Joh 4:35 Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest.

There is another explanation.

the KJV is the Only text I see that has that verse. It may have been added.

In fact it makes no sense.

No one has ascended into heaven. The law never saved anyone. Thus up until this time No one had ascended to heaven.

But Jesus, who was in heaven, came down to earth "descended from heaven" And just as moses was lifted up So must the son of man be lifted up. So whoever believes in him will have eternal life.

Which is the context of the passage.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

There are not two heaven in the bible and God does not reside in the second as you stated

There are more than two heavens. There are three. See 2 Cor. 12:2.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

I can appreciate your comments ChosenbyHim. What do you think about the other caveat in that verse - Jesus said no man has ascended accept for himself... Jesus had not ascended yet.

While Jesus had not ascended yet, we have to remember that while Jesus was in his humanity on Earth, that He also was still God at the same time.

Therefore While Jesus in His humanity had not ascended yet, at the same time, Jesus in His deity was omnipresent, He was in Heaven and on Earth at the same time.

 

[KJV1611]

There is another explanation.

the KJV is the Only text I see that has that verse. It may have been added.

In fact it makes no sense.

No one has ascended into heaven. The law never saved anyone. Thus up until this time No one had ascended to heaven.

But Jesus, who was in heaven, came down to earth "descended from heaven" And just as moses was lifted up So must the son of man be lifted up. So whoever believes in him will have eternal life.

Which is the context of the passage.

I agree with you accept the part about the verse being adding to the bible. There is no such thing as errors in the inerrant word of God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I agree with you accept the part about the verse being adding to the bible. There is no such thing as errors in the inerrant word of God.

My friend, the only inerrant word of God is the original autographs. We just have copies. and translations of these copies. And there are many things which were added or subtracted or mistranslated in the English text.

 

[jb]

This means no one is in heaven not Elijah nor Enoch

Both Enoch and Elijah entered into Heaven without dying!

However, Christ did taste of death and this is the experience He is referring to that He would be the first man to ascend into Heaven after tasting of death, and even more so as His death made atonement for sin, thus opening Heaven to believers in Him...

Now, maybe you would like to offer your own explanation of this verse, something you don't seem to have done so far!

 

[KJV1611]

Both Enoch and Elijah entered into Heaven without dying!

However, Christ did taste of death and this is the experience He is referring to that He would be the first man to ascend into Heaven after tasting of death, and even more so as His death made atonement for sin, thus opening Heaven to believers in Him...

Now, maybe you would like to offer your own explanation of this verse, something you don't seem to have done so far!

The bible doesn't say Enoch and Elijah were taken to heaven, where does that come from? You know all the Old Testament saints went to Abraham's Bosom... do you think Enoch and Elijah might have gone there also?

 

[ChosenbyHim]

My friend, the only inerrant word of God is the original autographs. We just have copies. and translations of these copies. And there are many things which were added or subtracted or mistranslated in the English text.

EG, we do not have the "original autographs."

We do have a perfect and inspired translation though.


God's word is truth (John 17:17).

And God's perfect, inerrant, and infallible word is the Authorized King James Holy Bible.

God promised to preserve His pure words (Psa. 12:6-7). And He kept His promise. We have His pure words.

 

[chubbena]

I believe John 3:13 was simply in response to John 3:2
Nicodemus said: Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.
At that point he had no idea Yeshua is the Son of God. He believed that Yeshua was just a man who has come from God (whom is in heaven).
Yeshua said: No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.
He "merely" stated that He's no ordinary man because no man has ever gone into heaven and come back down with God's teaching and that He's the one and only Son of God.
And John 3:16 again stated that.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

EG, we do not have the "original autographs."

We do have a perfect and inspired translation though.


God's word is truth (John 17:17).

And God's perfect, inerrant, and infallible word is the Authorized King James Holy Bible.

God promised to preserve His pure words (Psa. 12:6-7). And He kept His promise. We have His pure words.

No. We do not.

You have an english copy which was not even translated from the origionals.

God did not inspire the KJV. Men translated it. Like he did all the english translations. Some are better, some are worst. but they are ALL translations.

Taking this part out does NOT change the meaning. In fact, it MAKES IT MORE CLEAR!

His word is kept. In the hearts and minds of men who study his word in all things.. Using ALL the tools God has given them

 

[KJV1611]

I can't for the life me understand how someone could believe that God could inspire the original writings but he is not able to inspire men to translate them.

Everything that makes a Christian a Christian is based on God's word. We are cleansed by it, we are saved by it, we are to meditate on it and we come to know Jesus personally through it... If the word of God so important, you would think the omnipotent God of the universe would make sure everybody has an inerrant copy of it.

 

[KJV1611]

ChosenbyHim do you think the kingdom of heaven has come already or do you think all these verses about the kingdom are after the return of Christ?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I can't for the life me understand how someone could believe that God could inspire the original writings but he is not able to inspire men to translate them.

lol.. Ok. You guys are so funny.

God never promised to inspire the translations. And if he did inspire them to. The KJV would be twice as large as it is. Because to CORRECTLY interpret greek to english in the way the words were written, the sentence structure would be totally different.

A word for word translation is just that A word for word. It is not a general translation (ie baptize is not a translation, but a transliteration.

Another example. perfect tense.

A word for word translates. We have been saved

A literal. more perfect translations says, We have been saved, Are saved, and will forever more be saved.

As a a person affluent in the koine greek at the time of the origional autographs would have interpreted it.

Everything that makes a Christian a Christian is based on God's word. We are cleansed by it, we are saved by it, we are to meditate on it and we come to know Jesus personally through it... If the word of God so important, you would think the omnipotent God of the universe would make sure everybody has an inerrant copy of it.

lol. If this is true. NO ONE could be saved apart from your idol, the KJV. But that is not true. People are saved every day (millions of people) who have never read the KJV

Your problem is you do not give God any credit. He has worked through imperfect beings, imperfect words, and imperfect things since the begining of time. THAT IS WHAT MAKES HIM GOD!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

ChosenbyHim do you think the kingdom of heaven has come already or do you think all these verses about the kingdom are after the return of Christ?

I think it is both.

The kingdom of heaven is at hand. We have access to it right now through Grace and the gospel.

The kingdom will be more perfect at the return of Christ.

and will be perfected in eternity