We know about throwing out law, does the law have anything good about it??

[Isdaniel]

Yes, the 9 commandments are a part of the law but so was the command to keep the sabbath. Christ's death changed everything. We are not under the law but we are under grace.


At Christ's death the curtain separating the Holy of Hollies was ripped in two. The presence of God left the temple and now we are the temple of God. Christ was the last sacrifice God accepted and there is no need to sacrifice animals. Circumcision of the foreskin is now a circumcised heart (ie the new man). Christ's death changed the law.

lets see if what you are saying makes sense
paul says law (10 Comm ) in Galatians right this should inclued all the law including the 9 hmmm Where in that verse speaks about sabbath how are you able to pick out the sabbath and non the 9

Where in the ten commandments told us that Jesus to die for us as a sacrifice ?

Thanks hmmmmm

 

[RedTent]

Cfultz; Love causes no harm. We have been liberated from works by the Lord of Sabbath. Love fulfills the will of God. But, the one who seeks to live by the Law will only receive that which God has attached to it as its reward: death.

When love and law equal the same thing, if we are liberated from works then we would be liberated from love. That cannot be. Scripture says to obey. To obey does not mean that we can do it perfectly so we can live without Christ. That is separate. Christ is needed for our forgiveness. We are to obey law. Both are truth. Both live with us in the same world. Making one truth attach to the other truth is distorting truth.

Cfultz: His ways are indeed fair. He has given to us a new Covenant and a new Law: Love. Love causes no harm (do no evil).

Again, we are to know and be thankful for the new covenant. It takes the foundation of the old covenant and explains it, makes it more understandable to us. We are to know the new covenant. We are to know the old covenants, and exactly how the new ones affect the old. We are to understand the love basis of the law and let it explain law to us. But it means complete understanding, of growing in God. You wouldn't kill the baby in us in order to become adult! You grow from your baby steps.

 

[Josh321]

Are you saying just accept Jesus and sit down ?

what is Good works ? Is it grace ?

What is the reward of god works ?

Love you might say but sinners love sinners what thank have ye

nope you have no idea what happens when we surrender our life to christ do you? god works in us, he tells us what to do sharing the gospel or testimony, God does the work in us, you think it's just " saying " to surrender to God? we literally are surrendering our lives to him, when i came to christ i have no choice but to obey him non at all i was being led by spirit, the spirit led me to get rid of my friends which i knew for 9+ years that's why you and the others so stuck upon this law thing because you don't seem to understand what surrending to God means

 

[Josh321]

with the spiritual love of christ there is no sitting down, when i came to God i got so existed i sat on facebook for hours upon hours and days sharing my testimony with every single person i went on the streets and share my testimony with everyone, and we become servants of RIGHTEOUSNESS no matter what because we are no longer servants of sin New Living Translation
Now you are free from your slavery to sin, and you have become slaves to righteous living.

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Romans 6:18
[/FONT]now think about about someone being a slave to lets say.. cigs they keep running back to it correct? well the same thing happens when we accept christ​

 

[Isdaniel]

nope you have no idea what happens when we surrender our life to christ do you? god works in us, he tells us what to do sharing the gospel or testimony, God does the work in us, you think it's just " saying " to surrender to God? we literally are surrendering our lives to him, when i came to christ i have no choice but to obey him non at all i was being led by spirit, the spirit led me to get rid of my friends which i knew for 9+ years that's why you and the others so stuck upon this law thing because you don't seem to understand what surrending to God means

You have a choice to obey Him or Not are you greater than King David ?
hmmmm surrendering to God is to obey what he says and not juts the ten commandments hmmm Did God tell you go to church on a sunday well you would say yes as for me he told me saturday
hmmm well one of us must be lying hmmm only on Judgement day we shall know

but I do know God is going to judge the world by His law and His word hmm
On earh what do the judge judge the wicked and the righteous by hmmm they use a law

take care Gracekeeper

 

[Isdaniel]

with the spiritual love of christ there is no sitting down, when i came to God i got so existed i sat on facebook for hours upon hours and days sharing my testimony with every single person i went on the streets and share my testimony with everyone, and we become servants of RIGHTEOUSNESS no matter what because we are no longer servants of sin New Living Translation
Now you are free from your slavery to sin, and you have become slaves to righteous living.

Romans 6:18
now think about about someone being a slave to lets say.. cigs they keep running back to it correct? well the same thing happens when we accept christ​

You quote alot of verese and dont even understand them hmm this vere should ring a bell for you

[h=3]Isaiah 30:8-10[/h]King James Version (KJV)

8 Now go, write it before them in a table, and note it in a book, that it may be for the time to come for ever and ever:
9 That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the Lord:
10 Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:

 

[cfultz3]

When love and law equal the same thing, if we are liberated from works then we would be liberated from love. That cannot be.

We have been liberated from the Law as a means of our righteousness. We have not been liberated from the Moral Law of God, for such is His essence. Faith says that the means of obedience is by our spirit because our spirit minds the things of the Spirit. Law says that the means of obedience is by our flesh. And Scripture says that we are to die to our flesh.

This is what I meant.

Scripture says to obey. To obey does not mean that we can do it perfectly so we can live without Christ. That is separate. Christ is needed for our forgiveness. We are to obey law. Both are truth. Both live with us in the same world.

Let us therefore obey the Law of the new Covenant: Love. If the Shepherd before us is the Law Giver, then He will not contradict Himself by leading away from the Moral Law, but will, all the more, speak to us that same Moral Law. We obey His Voice through love (agape = love of esteem), not flesh. If we love Him, we will esteem His words He speaks.

Making one truth attach to the other truth is distorting truth

true + true = true. Maybe, you meant something else?

Again, we are to know and be thankful for the new covenant. It takes the foundation of the old covenant and explains it, makes it more understandable to us. We are to know the new covenant. We are to know the old covenants, and exactly how the new ones affect the old. We are to understand the love basis of the law and let it explain law to us. But it means complete understanding, of growing in God. You wouldn't kill the baby in us in order to become adult! You grow from your baby steps.

I read and accept the spoken essences of God we call Moral Law which are written in the Old Covenant. But, if I seek the method of the old Covenant which states that I must have my righteousness through the flesh, then I have not died to my flesh and neither have I become alive to my spirit and become a member of the new Covenant. I am obedient to the Law Giver not through my dead flesh, but by a good conscious of concurring with Him that the way He shows me is the LORD's Way.

--Chris

 

[Josh321]

it's so close together that's why many people are so confused... it involves everything with the law and at the same time it doesn't, i'll try to explain what i mean, the law judges the entire world everyone is judged upon the law, but us the genties are born with a sinful nature which means we can't help ourselves but to sin,so in order to get rid of this sinfu nature God came up with a plan, this was the plan, 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh,
you see God recognised that we are weak because of the flesh so we would be no match for the law because of our sinfu nature, so after he realize this, this is what he did to fix it

God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

so how will this solve the problem? because of God dying for us he gave us a way out a way to be free from the bondage of living in sin because of our sinful nature, and that way out is by accepting christ himself, and what happens what changes when we accept christ that takes away this sinful nature?

we become born again, literally with a new nature! and this new nature that we are born with is born after the likeness of God, lets take a good look at this word nature and what it means, to be born in a sinful nature means sin is in our genes it's the only thing we are accustom too, now look at this, to be born of God and a godlike nature what do you think would happen? wouldn't we lust after godly things by the nature of the spirit no matter what? this is what i want people to understand we must be born again law cannot help you only God can, and when you do receive this birth you will notice the power of christ that is what gives you hope to keep running back to him when you slip up, i really do hope people understand this i made a great effort to make this simple so everyone can understand, is this true or not what i spoke of?

 

[Isdaniel]

We have been liberated from the Law as a means of our righteousness. We have not been liberated from the Moral Law of God, for such is His essence. Faith says that the means of obedience is by our spirit because our spirit minds the things of the Spirit. Law says that the means of obedience is by our flesh. And Scripture says that we are to die to our flesh.

This is what I meant.

Let us therefore obey the Law of the new Covenant: Love. If the Shepherd before us is the Law Giver, then He will not contradict Himself by leading away from the Moral Law, but will, all the more, speak to us that same Moral Law. We obey His Voice through love (agape = love of esteem), not flesh. If we love Him, we will esteem His words He speaks.


true + true = true. Maybe, you meant something else?



I read and accept the spoken essences of God we call Moral Law which are written in the Old Covenant. But, if I seek the method of the old Covenant which states that I must have my righteousness through the flesh, then I have not died to my flesh and neither have I become alive to my spirit and become a member of the new Covenant. I am obedient to the Law Giver not through my dead flesh, but by a good conscious of concurring with Him that the way He shows me is the LORD's Way.

--Chris

What was Abel justified by ?

 

[Isdaniel]

it's so close together that's why many people are so confused... it involves everything with the law and at the same time it doesn't, i'll try to explain what i mean, the law judges the entire world everyone is judged upon the law, but us the genties are born with a sinful nature which means we can't help ourselves but to sin,so in order to get rid of this sinfu nature God came up with a plan, this was the plan, 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh,
you see God recognised that we are weak because of the flesh so we would be no match for the law because of our sinfu nature, so after he realize this, this is what he did to fix it

God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

so how will this solve the problem? because of God dying for us he gave us a way out a way to be free from the bondage of living in sin because of our sinful nature, and that way out is by accepting christ himself, and what happens what changes when we accept christ that takes away this sinful nature?

we become born again, literally with a new nature! and this new nature that we are born with is born after the likeness of God, lets take a good look at this word nature and what it means, to be born in a sinful nature means sin is in our genes it's the only thing we are accustom too, now look at this, to be born of God and a godlike nature what do you think would happen? wouldn't we lust after godly things by the nature of the spirit no matter what? this is what i want people to understand we must be born again law cannot help you only God can, and when you do receive this birth you will notice the power of christ that is what gives you hope to keep running back to him when you slip up, i really do hope people understand this i made a great effort to make this simple so everyone can understand, is this true or not what i spoke of?

Was Abraham a gentile or a Jew ?

 

[cfultz3]

You quote alot of verese and dont even understand them hmm this vere should ring a bell for you

[h=3]Isaiah 30:8-10[/h]King James Version (KJV)

8 Now go, write it before them in a table, and note it in a book, that it may be for the time to come for ever and ever:
9 That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the Lord:
10 Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:

And that Law He has written upon our hearts and by our spirit we follow our Shepherd, the Great Law Giver.....

Be careful of the condemnation of another when he has said that we are to be obedient to the Lord. You are judging wrongly. He does not deny obedience to God, but refutes righteousness through our own efforts.


--Chris

 

[Angela53510]

Let's say you against law are all correct, it is what God wants of us. That "nailed to the cross" does not mean that God forgives us, but it means the law was only temporary. That the 613 laws were not given to help establish a safe world, but are just something we can be thankful for to be rid of. That when Christ came with a new covenant, Christ didn't give us something more but Christ came to replace everything old of His Father. That what Christ had against the Pharisees was that they tried to obey. I see things differently, but let's say you are all right about what God says, and I am wrong. That isn't the point of this thread at all. I would like to explore what effect the law had on the life here on the people who used it for a life guide. Not for eternal life, but how it affects their contemporary life. Even the ritual law that Paul spoke so against teaching instead of teaching gospel.

Yet another example of the OP putting words in our mouths. No one is against the LAW. We do not have to deal the the law, because Christ did. That doesn't mean we should NOT live moral and ethical lives. But it does mean that Christ will be there, and by the power of the Holy Spirit, we will make right decisions.

How many places are the 10 commandments actually found in Scripture? TWO. Exodus 20 and Deut.5. In no place are these statutes and judgments called "commandments" They are in fact, the rules for a covenant with the people of Israel and the Lord God - YHWH.

"And Moses summoned all Israel and said to them, “Hear, O Israel, the statutes and the rules that I speak in your hearing today, and you shall learn them and be careful to do them. [SUP]2 [/SUP]The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Not with our fathers did the Lord make this covenant, but with us, who are all of us here alive today. " Deut. 5:1-3

We simply cannot keep the covenant of the Hebrew people, without negating the New Covenant which was made for the church of Jesus Christ, after Christ died for our sins, and rose again.

"He has made us competent to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter, but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit produces life.[SUP]7 [/SUP]Now if the ministry of death, chiseled in letters on stones, came with glory, so that the Israelites were not able to look directly at Moses’ face because of the glory from his face—a fading glory— [SUP]8 [/SUP]how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious?" 2 Cor. 3:6-8

According to Paul, in his last letter, he says the laws of the Old Covenant actually produces a ministry of death! That is what people who try to keep the Old Covenant do - they cannot meet with God, because the Old Covenant ended with Christ. They are left out because of their attempts to earn the favour of God through their works of a dead covenant.

"By saying, a new covenant, He has declared that the first is old. And what is old and aging is about to disappear." Hebrews 8:13

The Old Covenant is simply gone! It has disappeared.

You have created a straw man, once again, saying what you think we believe, without Bible verses to support your erroneous position. And a straw man will burn easily in the fire.

I urge you to read the books of the New Testament. You will find a living gospel on every page, not this dead Old Covenant, given to the people of Israel, which has disappeared.

 

[cfultz3]

What was Abel justified by ?

By not offering up the works of his own hands, he was justified.

 

[Isdaniel]

it's so close together that's why many people are so confused... it involves everything with the law and at the same time it doesn't, i'll try to explain what i mean, the law judges the entire world everyone is judged upon the law, but us the genties are born with a sinful nature which means we can't help ourselves but to sin,so in order to get rid of this sinfu nature God came up with a plan, this was the plan, 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh,
you see God recognised that we are weak because of the flesh so we would be no match for the law because of our sinfu nature, so after he realize this, this is what he did to fix it

God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

so how will this solve the problem? because of God dying for us he gave us a way out a way to be free from the bondage of living in sin because of our sinful nature, and that way out is by accepting christ himself, and what happens what changes when we accept christ that takes away this sinful nature?

we become born again, literally with a new nature! and this new nature that we are born with is born after the likeness of God, lets take a good look at this word nature and what it means, to be born in a sinful nature means sin is in our genes it's the only thing we are accustom too, now look at this, to be born of God and a godlike nature what do you think would happen? wouldn't we lust after godly things by the nature of the spirit no matter what? this is what i want people to understand we must be born again law cannot help you only God can, and when you do receive this birth you will notice the power of christ that is what gives you hope to keep running back to him when you slip up, i really do hope people understand this i made a great effort to make this simple so everyone can understand, is this true or not what i spoke of?

This verse means

od sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.


No man can keep the law in the flesh but only by the power of God thus the weakness was the outward doing of the law which did not profit anything but God wants you to do it from the heart ,in spirit and in truth not in the flesh and as a ritual

Lets say you want to go outside really bad but your teacher said no hmmm you will obey outwardly that is stay inside but in your heart you really did not because it was not done in heart service but as a ritual

 

[Isdaniel]

By not offering up the works of his own hands, he was justified.

Faith hmm but he had works did he hmm he obey the law because the law says offer the first to God thus he had faith in this law and the benifit thus justifed by faith and works not faith alone

 

[Isdaniel]

Yet another example of the OP putting words in our mouths. No one is against the LAW. We do not have to deal the the law, because Christ did. That doesn't mean we should NOT live moral and ethical lives. But it does mean that Christ will be there, and by the power of the Holy Spirit, we will make right decisions.

How many places are the 10 commandments actually found in Scripture? TWO. Exodus 20 and Deut.5. In no place are these statutes and judgments called "commandments" They are in fact, the rules for a covenant with the people of Israel and the Lord God - YHWH.

"And Moses summoned all Israel and said to them, “Hear, O Israel, the statutes and the rules that I speak in your hearing today, and you shall learn them and be careful to do them. [SUP]2 [/SUP]The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Not with our fathers did the Lord make this covenant, but with us, who are all of us here alive today. " Deut. 5:1-3

We simply cannot keep the covenant of the Hebrew people, without negating the New Covenant which was made for the church of Jesus Christ, after Christ died for our sins, and rose again.

"He has made us competent to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter, but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit produces life.[SUP]7 [/SUP]Now if the ministry of death, chiseled in letters on stones, came with glory, so that the Israelites were not able to look directly at Moses’ face because of the glory from his face—a fading glory— [SUP]8 [/SUP]how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious?" 2 Cor. 3:6-8

According to Paul, in his last letter, he says the laws of the Old Covenant actually produces a ministry of death! That is what people who try to keep the Old Covenant do - they cannot meet with God, because the Old Covenant ended with Christ. They are left out because of their attempts to earn the favour of God through their works of a dead covenant.

"By saying, a new covenant, He has declared that the first is old. And what is old and aging is about to disappear." Hebrews 8:13

The Old Covenant is simply gone! It has disappeared.

You have created a straw man, once again, saying what you think we believe, without Bible verses to support your erroneous position. And a straw man will burn easily in the fire.

I urge you to read the books of the New Testament. You will find a living gospel on every page, not this dead Old Covenant, given to the people of Israel, which has disappeared.

View attachment 66227

my people are destroyed for lack of knowledge

[h=3]Exodus 34:1-4[/h]King James Version (KJV)

1 And the Lord said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou brakest.
2 And be ready in the morning, and come up in the morning unto mount Sinai, and present thyself there to me in the top of the mount.
3 And no man shall come up with thee, neither let any man be seen throughout all the mount; neither let the flocks nor herds feed before that mount.
4 And he hewed two tables of stone like unto the first; and Moses rose up early in the morning, and went up unto mount Sinai, as the Lord had commanded him, and took in his hand the two tables of stone.

[h=3]Exodus 34:28[/h]King James Version (KJV)

28 And he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

 

[Josh321]

Was Abraham a gentile or a Jew ?

what does this have to do with anything i just wrote?

 

[Isdaniel]

what does this have to do with anything i just wrote?

Abraham was a gentile like all of us hmmm the term Jew or Israel is way of life thus we all are gentiles but when walk in God ways we become israel or a jew


Genesis 26:5Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Hmm abraham a Hebrew are you a hebrew hmmmm

 

[zone]

Did God tell you go to church on a sunday well you would say yes as for me he told me saturday

take care Gracekeeper

Gracekeeper?
wow....that's a bad thing?

the Lord never told you going to church on saturday was keeping the Law.
if you are keeping the saturday sabbath, you are staying HOME RESTING.

not going to "church".
LOL.

 

[zone]

Again, we are to know and be thankful for the new covenant.

It takes the foundation of the old covenant and explains it, makes it more understandable to us.

We are to know the new covenant.

We are to know the old covenants, and exactly how the new ones affect the old.

??
oh dear....the Old is completely abolished.

one would hope we know the New.

fourth wave stuff.