For Sabbath keepers, How does obedience to the Sabbath affect your Salvation?
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J
Deut 4:10-14
especially concerning the day you stood before the Lord your God in Horeb, when the Lord said to me, 'Gather the people to Me, and I will let them hear My words, that they may learn to fear Me all the days they live on the earth, and that they may teach their children.'
11 "Then you came near and stood at the foot of the mountain, and the mountain burned with fire to the midst of heaven, with darkness, cloud, and thick darkness.
12 And the Lord spoke to you out of the midst of the fire. You heard the sound of the words, but saw no form; you only heard a voice.
13 So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.
14 And the Lord commanded me at that time to teach you statutes and judgments, that you might observe them in the land which you cross over to possess.
NKJV
Deut 4:10-14
Never forget the day when you stood before the Lord your God at Mount Sinai, where he told me, 'Summon the people before me, and I will personally instruct them. Then they will learn to fear me as long as they live, and they will teach their children to fear me also.'
11 "You came near and stood at the foot of the mountain, while flames from the mountain shot into the sky. The mountain was shrouded in black clouds and deep darkness.
12 And the Lord spoke to you from the heart of the fire. You heard the sound of his words but didn't see his form; there was only a voice.
13 He proclaimed his covenant—the Ten Commandments—which he commanded you to keep, and which he wrote on two stone tablets.
14 It was at that time that the Lord commanded me to teach you his decrees and regulations so you would obey them in the land you are about to enter and occupy.
NLT
Deut 4:10-14
Specially the day that thou stoodest before the Lord thy God in Horeb, when the Lord said unto me, Gather me the people together, and I will make them hear my words, that they may learn to fear me all the days that they shall live upon the earth, and that they may teach their children.
11 And ye came near and stood under the mountain; and the mountain burned with fire unto the midst of heaven, with darkness, clouds, and thick darkness.
12 And the Lord spake unto you out of the midst of the fire: ye heard the voice of the words, but saw no similitude; only ye heard a voice.
13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.
14 And the Lord commanded me at that time to teach you statutes and judgments, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go over to possess it.
KJV
Deut 4:10-14
Remember the day you stood before the Lord your God at Horeb, when the Lord said to me, 'Assemble the people to Me, that I may let them hear My words so they may learn to fear Me all the days they live on the earth, and that they may teach their children.'
11 "You came near and stood at the foot of the mountain, and the mountain burned with fire to the very heart of the heavens: darkness, cloud and thick gloom.
12 "Then the Lord spoke to you from the midst of the fire; you heard the sound of words, but you saw no form — only a voice.
13 "So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, that is, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.
14 "The Lord commanded me at that time to teach you statutes and judgments, that you might perform them in the land where you are going over to possess it.
NASBU
Deut 4:10-14
Remember the day you stood before the Lord your God at Horeb, when he said to me, "Assemble the people before me to hear my words so that they may learn to revere me as long as they live in the land and may teach them to their children."
11 You came near and stood at the foot of the mountain while it blazed with fire to the very heavens, with black clouds and deep darkness.
12 Then the Lord spoke to you out of the fire. You heard the sound of words but saw no form; there was only a voice.
13 He declared to you his covenant, the Ten Commandments, which he commanded you to follow and then wrote them on two stone tablets.
14 And the Lord directed me at that time to teach you the decrees and laws you are to follow in the land that you are crossing the Jordan to possess.
NIV
The ten commandments are PART of the Covenant. The rest of that chapter is where Moses repeats the Ten Commandments after point blank saying it was NOT with our ancestors.
Question for you Would Abraham have been guilty under the Mosaic law when he went to sacrifice Issac? Would Abraham have been guilty under the Ten Commandments?
Question for you Would Abraham have been guilty under the Mosaic law when he went to sacrifice Issac? Would Abraham have been guilty under the Ten Commandments?
Would you care to quote scripture to back up these bold claims?
In the mean time, think about this...
Gen 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Without Law, there is no sin. Either this is true, or we are wasting our time here. If it is false, then the Bible cannot be trusted and there is no need to read it. It is true and the Bible is the Word of God, so sin existed "until the Law". Now what does "until the Law" mean? Here is what Jamieson Fausset and Brown says...
"For until the law sin was in the world — that is during all the period from Adam “until the law” of Moses was given, God continued to treat men as sinners.
but sin is not imputed where there is no law — “There must therefore have been a law during that period, because sin was then imputed”; as is now to be shown."
The phrase "until the Law" refers to the time span from Adam to Moses. Just because God codified His Ten Commandments and spoke them to all of Israel at Mt. Sinai, this does not mean they were not in existence before that time.
Christ seemed to think there was a Law against lusting, a Law against murder and a Law against lying from before the time of Adam...
Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
I would like to see some scripture that says the Ten Commandments did not exist before Mt. Sinai.
In the mean time, think about this...
Gen 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Without Law, there is no sin. Either this is true, or we are wasting our time here. If it is false, then the Bible cannot be trusted and there is no need to read it. It is true and the Bible is the Word of God, so sin existed "until the Law". Now what does "until the Law" mean? Here is what Jamieson Fausset and Brown says...
"For until the law sin was in the world — that is during all the period from Adam “until the law” of Moses was given, God continued to treat men as sinners.
but sin is not imputed where there is no law — “There must therefore have been a law during that period, because sin was then imputed”; as is now to be shown."
The phrase "until the Law" refers to the time span from Adam to Moses. Just because God codified His Ten Commandments and spoke them to all of Israel at Mt. Sinai, this does not mean they were not in existence before that time.
Christ seemed to think there was a Law against lusting, a Law against murder and a Law against lying from before the time of Adam...
Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
I would like to see some scripture that says the Ten Commandments did not exist before Mt. Sinai.
What is was the people covenant ? Not what was God covenant but the people covenant
just a thought
hmm something interesting here
[h=3]Deuteronomy 29:1-2[/h]King James Version (KJV)
1 These are the words of the covenant, which the Lord commanded Moses to make with the children of Israel in the land of Moab, beside the covenant which he made with them in Horeb.
2 And Moses called unto all Israel, and said unto them, Ye have seen all that theLord did before your eyes in the land of Egypt unto Pharaoh, and unto all his servants, and unto all his land;
[h=3]Deuteronomy 29:10-15[/h]King James Version (KJV)
10 Ye stand this day all of you before the Lord your God; your captains of your tribes, your elders, and your officers, with all the men of Israel,
11 Your little ones, your wives, and thy stranger that is in thy camp, from the hewer of thy wood unto the drawer of thy water:
12 That thou shouldest enter into covenant with the Lord thy God, and into his oath, which the Lord thy God maketh with thee this day:
13 That he may establish thee to day for a people unto himself, and that he may be unto thee a God, as he hath said unto thee, and as he hath sworn unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob.
14 Neither with you only do I make this covenant and this oath;
15 But with him that standeth here with us this day before the Lord our God, and also with him that is not here with us this day:
just a thought
hmm something interesting here
[h=3]Deuteronomy 29:1-2[/h]King James Version (KJV)
1 These are the words of the covenant, which the Lord commanded Moses to make with the children of Israel in the land of Moab, beside the covenant which he made with them in Horeb.
2 And Moses called unto all Israel, and said unto them, Ye have seen all that theLord did before your eyes in the land of Egypt unto Pharaoh, and unto all his servants, and unto all his land;
[h=3]Deuteronomy 29:10-15[/h]King James Version (KJV)
10 Ye stand this day all of you before the Lord your God; your captains of your tribes, your elders, and your officers, with all the men of Israel,
11 Your little ones, your wives, and thy stranger that is in thy camp, from the hewer of thy wood unto the drawer of thy water:
12 That thou shouldest enter into covenant with the Lord thy God, and into his oath, which the Lord thy God maketh with thee this day:
13 That he may establish thee to day for a people unto himself, and that he may be unto thee a God, as he hath said unto thee, and as he hath sworn unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob.
14 Neither with you only do I make this covenant and this oath;
15 But with him that standeth here with us this day before the Lord our God, and also with him that is not here with us this day:
They are the terms and conditions of the Covenant. Interestingly enough, they are the terms and conditions of the New Covenant also...
Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Now unles a person has had the Law written in their hearts and minds (the terms and conditions) they are not under the New Covenant.
Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Now unles a person has had the Law written in their hearts and minds (the terms and conditions) they are not under the New Covenant.
J
What bold claim? *had to read all the way at the bottom to see what you were talking about*
I guess you read nothing else in my post because you would have noticed the sarcasm and I went on the explain that there was a moral law followed, that is how Enoch walked with God and Noah was seen as just and perfect in that generation. Or I could have went into the flood and Sodom and Gomorrah but I digress. You couldn't have read what I posted
Didn't read Deut 4:10?
But can I get an answer to my question that I posted that seems to keep getting avoided?
I guess you read nothing else in my post because you would have noticed the sarcasm and I went on the explain that there was a moral law followed, that is how Enoch walked with God and Noah was seen as just and perfect in that generation. Or I could have went into the flood and Sodom and Gomorrah but I digress. You couldn't have read what I posted
Didn't read Deut 4:10?
But can I get an answer to my question that I posted that seems to keep getting avoided?
J
Bringing this back up so I can get an answer regarding it.
Also, if this was passed down from generation to generation starting with Adam, why did the purpose behind the Sabbath have to be explained in the 10 Commandments? Why is that the longest of the commandments with the most detail if they already knew about it?
Also, if this was passed down from generation to generation starting with Adam, why did the purpose behind the Sabbath have to be explained in the 10 Commandments? Why is that the longest of the commandments with the most detail if they already knew about it?
You mean this one used by the JW's?
JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES VERSIONS
B. F. Wilson's "Diaglott"
Among the versions of the Scriptures circulated by "Jehovah's Witnesses" B. F. Wilson's "Emphatic Diaglott" has occupied an important place since 1902, when a reprint was undertaken for the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. This organization obtained the plates about that time, and in 1927 they had the type re-set for printing on their own presses. B. F. Wilson was born in England in 1817 and was a member of a baptist church in Halifax, where he came under the influence of Campbell's "Restoration Movement" and joined the "Disciples of Christ". In 1844 Wilson settled in Geneva, Illinois, in the USA Although the "Disciples" there were in touch with John Thomas, who broke away and formed the "Christadelphian Church", the Geneva group did not join the Christadelphians, but became known as the "Restitution Church of God."
B. F. Wilson set up a printing press and published "The Gospel Banner" for many years. During this period he worked on his literal and "emphatic" translation, for which he also set the type in Greek and English and made the electro-type plates. The title page of the 1865 edition reads--"The Emphatic Diaglott, containing the Original Greek Text of what is Commonly Styled the New Testament (According to the Recension of Dr. J. J. Griesbach), with an Interlineary Word for Word English Translation; A New Emphatic Version, based on the Interlineary Translation, on the Renderings of Eminent Critics, and on the various readings of the Vatican Manuscript, No. 1209 in the Vatican Library: Together with Illustrative and Explanatory Footnotes, and a copious selection of references; to the whole of which is added a valuable Alphabetical Appendix. Fowler and Wells 1865."
Like many more recent editors, Wilson claimed that--"Scrupulous fidelity has been maintained throughout this version in giving the true rendering of the original text into English; no regard whatever being paid to the prevailing doctrines or prejudices of sects, or the peculiar tenets of theologians." However, the strong prejudice of the editor against the Authorised Version and its underlying text is indicated by the erroneous statements in the preface "To the Reader", that the versions of Tyndale, Matthew, Coverdale and Geneva were "all translated from the Vulgate Latin", and that "the Authorised Version is simply a revision of the Vulgate", whereas all of these versions were the fruit of diligent and competent Greek scholarship far beyond the capacity of Wilson to appreciate.
JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES VERSIONS
Not so sure I would want to use that version.
JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES VERSIONS
B. F. Wilson's "Diaglott"
Among the versions of the Scriptures circulated by "Jehovah's Witnesses" B. F. Wilson's "Emphatic Diaglott" has occupied an important place since 1902, when a reprint was undertaken for the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. This organization obtained the plates about that time, and in 1927 they had the type re-set for printing on their own presses. B. F. Wilson was born in England in 1817 and was a member of a baptist church in Halifax, where he came under the influence of Campbell's "Restoration Movement" and joined the "Disciples of Christ". In 1844 Wilson settled in Geneva, Illinois, in the USA Although the "Disciples" there were in touch with John Thomas, who broke away and formed the "Christadelphian Church", the Geneva group did not join the Christadelphians, but became known as the "Restitution Church of God."
B. F. Wilson set up a printing press and published "The Gospel Banner" for many years. During this period he worked on his literal and "emphatic" translation, for which he also set the type in Greek and English and made the electro-type plates. The title page of the 1865 edition reads--"The Emphatic Diaglott, containing the Original Greek Text of what is Commonly Styled the New Testament (According to the Recension of Dr. J. J. Griesbach), with an Interlineary Word for Word English Translation; A New Emphatic Version, based on the Interlineary Translation, on the Renderings of Eminent Critics, and on the various readings of the Vatican Manuscript, No. 1209 in the Vatican Library: Together with Illustrative and Explanatory Footnotes, and a copious selection of references; to the whole of which is added a valuable Alphabetical Appendix. Fowler and Wells 1865."
Like many more recent editors, Wilson claimed that--"Scrupulous fidelity has been maintained throughout this version in giving the true rendering of the original text into English; no regard whatever being paid to the prevailing doctrines or prejudices of sects, or the peculiar tenets of theologians." However, the strong prejudice of the editor against the Authorised Version and its underlying text is indicated by the erroneous statements in the preface "To the Reader", that the versions of Tyndale, Matthew, Coverdale and Geneva were "all translated from the Vulgate Latin", and that "the Authorised Version is simply a revision of the Vulgate", whereas all of these versions were the fruit of diligent and competent Greek scholarship far beyond the capacity of Wilson to appreciate.
JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES VERSIONS
Not so sure I would want to use that version.
What is interesting is this
You said this covenant came on Mt sinai ok well said but to say Abraham did not keep the ten commandments and other stautute of God is a lie
Ask yourself this if Abraham did not keep commandments hmm i beleive the first 2 commands are do not have other Gods and not to make graven images hmm did did father Abraham do such things hmmmm but wait He never kept them right
hmmm this should let you think deeper and what a convenant is and it promises
[h=3]Exodus 2:24[/h]King James Version (KJV)
24 And God heard their groaning, and God remembered his covenant with Abraham, with Isaac, and with Jacob.
[h=3]Exodus 6:4-5[/h]King James Version (KJV)
4 And I have also established my covenant with them, to give them the land of Canaan, the land of their pilgrimage, wherein they were strangers.
5 And I have also heard the groaning of the children of Israel, whom the Egyptians keep in bondage; and I have remembered my covenant.
what covenant was this ?
Is it the same as the one in Mt sianai Why or Why not
[h=3]I just wonder if the law of Adultery was in full swing back then ?
Genesis 20[/h]King James Version (KJV)
1 And Abraham journeyed from thence toward the south country, and dwelled between Kadesh and Shur, and sojourned in Gerar.
2 And Abraham said of Sarah his wife, She is my sister: and Abimelech king of Gerar sent, and took Sarah.
3 But God came to Abimelech in a dream by night, and said to him, Behold, thou artbut a dead man, for the woman which thou hast taken; for she is a man's wife.
4 But Abimelech had not come near her: and he said, Lord, wilt thou slay also a righteous nation?
5 Said he not unto me, She is my sister? and she, even she herself said, He is my brother: in the integrity of my heart and innocency of my hands have I done this.
6 And God said unto him in a dream, Yea, I know that thou didst this in theintegrity of thy heart; for I also withheld thee from sinning against me: therefore suffered I thee not to touch her.
7 Now therefore restore the man his wife; for he is a prophet, and he shall pray for thee, and thou shalt live: and if thou restore her not, know thou that thou shalt surely die, thou, and all that are thine.
Genesis 20[/h]King James Version (KJV)
1 And Abraham journeyed from thence toward the south country, and dwelled between Kadesh and Shur, and sojourned in Gerar.
2 And Abraham said of Sarah his wife, She is my sister: and Abimelech king of Gerar sent, and took Sarah.
3 But God came to Abimelech in a dream by night, and said to him, Behold, thou artbut a dead man, for the woman which thou hast taken; for she is a man's wife.
4 But Abimelech had not come near her: and he said, Lord, wilt thou slay also a righteous nation?
5 Said he not unto me, She is my sister? and she, even she herself said, He is my brother: in the integrity of my heart and innocency of my hands have I done this.
6 And God said unto him in a dream, Yea, I know that thou didst this in theintegrity of thy heart; for I also withheld thee from sinning against me: therefore suffered I thee not to touch her.
7 Now therefore restore the man his wife; for he is a prophet, and he shall pray for thee, and thou shalt live: and if thou restore her not, know thou that thou shalt surely die, thou, and all that are thine.
I wonder how Joseph knew about this hmmm the commandment were not given right hmmmm
Genesis 39:7-10
King James Version (KJV)
7 And it came to pass after these things, that his master's wife cast her eyes upon Joseph; and she said, Lie with me.
8 But he refused, and said unto his master's wife, Behold, my master wotteth not what is with me in the house, and he hath committed all that he hath to my hand;
9 There is none greater in this house than I; neither hath he kept back any thing from me but thee, because thou art his wife: how then can I do this great wickedness, and sin against God?
10 And it came to pass, as she spake to Joseph day by day, that he hearkened not unto her, to lie by her, or to be with her.
1 John 3:4
King James Version (KJV)
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
Joseph was well taught hmmm
Genesis 39:7-10
King James Version (KJV)
7 And it came to pass after these things, that his master's wife cast her eyes upon Joseph; and she said, Lie with me.
8 But he refused, and said unto his master's wife, Behold, my master wotteth not what is with me in the house, and he hath committed all that he hath to my hand;
9 There is none greater in this house than I; neither hath he kept back any thing from me but thee, because thou art his wife: how then can I do this great wickedness, and sin against God?
10 And it came to pass, as she spake to Joseph day by day, that he hearkened not unto her, to lie by her, or to be with her.
1 John 3:4
King James Version (KJV)
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
Joseph was well taught hmmm
J
Uuuuugh? A question for a question. I will bite but it would nice to get an answer for this instead of the tip toe dancing around question asking.
If you read Exodus 16, Moses didn't tell them to remember the Sabbath but instead "Tomorrow is a Sabbath rest," and went into detail on what they should do. If this Sabbath was traditional like everyone is saying, Moses would have never had to tell them that it was a Sabbath, they would have known it. Also, maybe because the events of Exodus 16 happened before Exodus 20? *shrugs*
If you read Exodus 16, Moses didn't tell them to remember the Sabbath but instead "Tomorrow is a Sabbath rest," and went into detail on what they should do. If this Sabbath was traditional like everyone is saying, Moses would have never had to tell them that it was a Sabbath, they would have known it. Also, maybe because the events of Exodus 16 happened before Exodus 20? *shrugs*