Catholics are not idolators or pagans- if they are so then so also was Moses!

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Show me where God says you are NOT 'to pray to saints...' in His Bible.

Why did the Israelites speak to Moses when they wanted to convey a message to God or for him to intercede on their behalf? Why didn't they speak to God directly themselves rather than go through him, a man of God? Answer me that!

Show me where GOD says you are NOT to pray to gerbils in his bible.

 

[PennEd]

PennEd,

I have some idea of the evil that Catholics have done. I will not deny that. Every Catholic, like every Christian or indeed every human, is tempted by Satan, and more so those in power. Even Jesus was tempted by Satan. And only He could stand strong because He is God and the Holy Spirit was strong in Him. I will even go further and say that many prophecies by visionaries (I'm mainly referring to Lucia of Fatima though I know other sources too) say that in the End Times, the Catholic Church will have deception within it. But that is why every Catholic should pray for strength and fight for the 'Bride of Christ/or the Body of Christ (of which Jesus is the Head)', and NOT quit it in its hour of trial! I pray for all Mankind, so should I not pray for the biggest or oldest Church too or should I consider them a write off? What would Jesus do?

xtian, thank you for your reply. I promise to you my intent is not to insult your beliefs. It is imperative however that you not deviate from the one true Gospel of John 3:16.
Jesus ardently prayed to His Father that if there was ANY other way, (torture and execution by crucifixion) to save humanity ("Abba, Father," he cried out, "everything is possible for you. Please take this cup of suffering away from me. Yet I want your will to be done, not mine.") to please take it.
We know His Father had no plan B. His Son suffering and dying was it. So if we add ANYTHING else to accepting Jesus then we are slapping God in the face. Knowing this how can you believe in purgatory? For those unaware of this doctrine it basically is that you go to a place of suffering for an indeterminate amount of time to PAY for whatever sins Jesus didn't have the power to forgive. Worse, the catholic church use to overtly say that if you gave them money it would lessen your loved ones time in purgatory. This is the doctrine of indulgences. But most people are unaware, INCLUDING most catholics, that indulgences continue to this day in the form of mass cards. My mother has fallen victim to this evil practices many times. Mass cards are PURCHASED with the intent that a mass will be said in a loved ones name with the intent, most times unsaid, of lessening a loved ones time in purgatory.

There are MANY other satanic doctrines we could talk about, but this one alone should give you pause. I would highly recommend trying a non-denominational BIBLE centered church to see how vastly different a place of worship is where the Holy Spirit is present and active.

 

[directline2iam]

I think God knows the answer better on this issue. If you have read the procedure as to how saints become saints- by miracles attributed to their intercession- and understood it without bias, your comment would not be logical.

Tell that fish tale to Martin Luther, who by the way of the Holy Spirit IS A SAINT.

 

[directline2iam]

Show me where God says you are NOT 'to pray to saints...' in His Bible.

Why did the Israelites speak to Moses when they wanted to convey a message to God or for him to intercede on their behalf? Why didn't they speak to God directly themselves rather than go through him, a man of God? Answer me that!

For one, Moses was ALIVE IN THE FLESH..................
Mary and the other Saints aren't.

For two, Moses was a shadow of things to come, namely Jesus the Christ.
Mary nor the Saints were shadows of anything.

The Saints under the alter in heaven are praying to God for his justice and vengeance for them...How long Lord...
There not there praying for you, That Is the Commandment of the Father to Jesus and NONE other.

Read your bible and stop listening to a false religion, come to the light of the knowledge of the truth.

 

[chubbena]

I've just joined this site and have seen posts that reflect division and hatred as well as judging of Catholics. We are human and sinners just like everybody. We've made our mistakes, paid for them, still are paying and still may have to.

What do you mean when you said we've made our mistakes, paid for them, still are paying and still have to?

Can any other church or denomination say they are perfect? Doesn't every church have it's own internal rules and regulations that may have not originated perfectly from the Bible but was done in faith? Just as the Church seemingly transgressed during the Reformation (over indulgences) and is impure in God's eyes therefor, aren't all other churches similarly impure in His Holy Eyes?

Repent and follow the way is the answer.

It upsets me every time I encounter the old argument about statues in Churches and the Second Commandment. I know to the depths of my soul that I worship God Himself and only use the images or statues as aids for my prayer and meditation.

Do you speak on behalf of the majority of Roman Catholics here or for yourself only? Do you speak out to your fellow Roman Catholics brothers if they worship the images?

So I have a question- if I am a pagan because of the existence of such statues, by the same token I believe that Moses and the Israelites who were the first to receive the Ten Commandments were pagans too- they were worshipping the two kneeling angels atop the Ark of the Covenant! Prove to me that they weren't doing so! They knelt many times before it and venerated the Ark itself-so they must have!

If they did it only means they didn't obey God. It does not mean we can do same to man made images too.

Non Catholics that hound their Catholic CHRISTIAN (Yes we are Christian- read up on the 'Apostle's Creed'- that is what we believe and recite every Sunday in Mass) are sometimes no different to us that legalistic Muslims who say we are pagan (yet bow towards a black cube idol in Mecca which they worship).

Does the Apostle's Creed decide who is and who is not Christian?

 

[cjordan38]

In my opinion I dont knock anyone for being any religion they want or believing anything they want. My church is non denominational. We follow the true Apostolic doctrine. I believe that Catholicism is not where I want to be. I believe that God was very direct with the 2nd commandment. To bow down and give glory, kiss the ring, and magnify the Popes name is against what I believe. All glory belongs to God. To say that your immune from going to hell is too much. Nobody who was on earth and still is on earth is immune from going to hell beacause nobody but God can call the shots. But I dont knock anybody for what they belive. I believe if you read revelation your view about things will change. Now as far as praying to the saints, I dont. Jesus never prayed to anybody to intercede for him. He just looked up and came to the father. God said ask what you will. He also said you have not, because you ask not. When you pray you pray for others. God knows what you need. So if you need your prayer to go through go to the source. Dont need anybody but God to intercede for you. The saint are your fellow men in Christ

 

[iwant2serve]

Notuptome,

Yes Catholics 'pray' to Mary and the saints. But any knowledgable Catholic will tell you worship is only due to God. I find your judging of both Jews and Catholics not in line with the Spirit of God- but that's my opinion. His Opinion is the one that matters!

I understand your frustrations at what many say about the Catholics. I have never been nor do I think I would be one, but I do want to say this. The Bible says we are to pray to the Father in the name of Jesus not to Mary, Saints, Holy Spirit, or even Jesus. My personal belief is that when you pray to anyone else but the Farther you are in direct violation of what Jesus said.

 

[directline2iam]

I understand your frustrations at what many say about the Catholics. I have never been nor do I think I would be one, but I do want to say this. The Bible says we are to pray to the Father in the name of Jesus not to Mary, Saints, Holy Spirit, or even Jesus. My personal belief is that when you pray to anyone else but the Farther you are in direct violation of what Jesus said.

Just to add to that: Romans 8:15
The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, "Abba, Father."

Romans 8:26In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words; 27and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.

Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit
John 14:16"I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; 17that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.…

 

[Kerry]

Merry Christmas.

 

[thecreationtutor]

I've just joined this site and have seen posts that reflect division and hatred as well as judging of Catholics. We are human and sinners just like everybody. We've made our mistakes, paid for them, still are paying and still may have to. Can any other church or denomination say they are perfect? Doesn't every church have it's own internal rules and regulations that may have not originated perfectly from the Bible but was done in faith? Just as the Church seemingly transgressed during the Reformation (over indulgences) and is impure in God's eyes therefor, aren't all other churches similarly impure in His Holy Eyes?

It upsets me every time I encounter the old argument about statues in Churches and the Second Commandment. I know to the depths of my soul that I worship God Himself and only use the images or statues as aids for my prayer and meditation. So I have a question- if I am a pagan because of the existence of such statues, by the same token I believe that Moses and the Israelites who were the first to receive the Ten Commandments were pagans too- they were worshipping the two kneeling angels atop the Ark of the Covenant! Prove to me that they weren't doing so! They knelt many times before it and venerated the Ark itself-so they must have!

Non Catholics that hound their Catholic CHRISTIAN (Yes we are Christian- read up on the 'Apostle's Creed'- that is what we believe and recite every Sunday in Mass) are sometimes no different to us that legalistic Muslims who say we are pagan (yet bow towards a black cube idol in Mecca which they worship).

Very upset and hurt about such divisions among believers of the King of Kings.

A sinner like all but a believer too!

Xtian7[/QUOTE

All religion is pagan = Moses had a relationship with God - part of that relationship was doing certain things and he was justified in what he was told to do - Catholics do all sorts of things to find justification in them, when God hasn't told them to do them

That's manmade religion that sends people to hell

 

[notuptome]

The bible both catholic and protestant states that there is one intercessor between God and man. The Lord Jesus Christ is the only intercessor. Mary would be horrified if she saw how the church of Rome deifies her.

Catholics at the end of the day are superstitious and not Spiritual.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[PennEd]

I've just joined this site and have seen posts that reflect division and hatred as well as judging of Catholics. We are human and sinners just like everybody. We've made our mistakes, paid for them, still are paying and still may have to. Can any other church or denomination say they are perfect? Doesn't every church have it's own internal rules and regulations that may have not originated perfectly from the Bible but was done in faith? Just as the Church seemingly transgressed during the Reformation (over indulgences) and is impure in God's eyes therefor, aren't all other churches similarly impure in His Holy Eyes?

It upsets me every time I encounter the old argument about statues in Churches and the Second Commandment. I know to the depths of my soul that I worship God Himself and only use the images or statues as aids for my prayer and meditation. So I have a question- if I am a pagan because of the existence of such statues, by the same token I believe that Moses and the Israelites who were the first to receive the Ten Commandments were pagans too- they were worshipping the two kneeling angels atop the Ark of the Covenant! Prove to me that they weren't doing so! They knelt many times before it and venerated the Ark itself-so they must have!

Non Catholics that hound their Catholic CHRISTIAN (Yes we are Christian- read up on the 'Apostle's Creed'- that is what we believe and recite every Sunday in Mass) are sometimes no different to us that legalistic Muslims who say we are pagan (yet bow towards a black cube idol in Mecca which they worship).

Very upset and hurt about such divisions among believers of the King of Kings.

A sinner like all but a believer too!

Xtian7[/QUOTE

All religion is pagan = Moses had a relationship with God - part of that relationship was doing certain things and he was justified in what he was told to do - Catholics do all sorts of things to find justification in them, when God hasn't told them to do them

That's manmade religion that sends people to hell

Please stop saying that if Christians point out the unscriptual nature of Catholicism that somehow that equates to hatred. The case can be made that by NOT showing them their error that we hate them and thereby consign them to eternity separated from God.
Here is your proof you require that the Israelites knelt before the Lord and NOT statues:
Isaiah 37:16

"LORD Almighty, the God of Israel, ENTHRONED BETWEEN the cherubim, you alone are God over all the kingdoms of the earth. You have made heaven and earth."

God Bless you. Merry Christmas!

 

[Bowman]

...by the same token I believe that Moses and the Israelites who were the first to receive the Ten Commandments were pagans too- they were worshipping the two kneeling angels atop the Ark of the Covenant! Prove to me that they weren't doing so! They knelt many times before it and venerated the Ark itself-so they must have!

Xtian7

Please quote the scripture to which you refer to...thanks...

 

[TaylorTG]

@PennEd

For those unaware of this doctrine it basically is that you go to a place of suffering for an indeterminate amount of time to PAY for whatever sins Jesus didn't have the power to forgive.

That is an inaccurate description.

Note that Purgatory is not a place for people to be forgiven. The souls in Purgatory are already saved. They already chose God in their earthly life, and so are already destined to enter the Kingdom of God.

Purgatory is a place of purification, not forgiveness. Keep in mind that none can enter Heaven if their souls are stained with even a tiny bit of sin. If Purgatory didn't exist, than so many poor souls will be dammed for their small sins.

Purgatory is a perfect example of God's infinite mercy; saying that it is a demonic doctrine is unreasonable.

 

[breno785au]

Okay so purgatory is like God's quarantine?

 

[Kerry]

Where do Catholics place their faith? in ritual? or relics? or works? In Mary? all religions do this. Maybe their faith is the Pope.

Where does Jesus fit in?

 

[TaylorTG]

@Breno785au

Okay so purgatory is like God's quarantine?

.............................

 

[breno785au]

@Breno785au

.............................

I'm actually asking the question seriously, I'm not mocking that's how I see what you said and I'm asking if my thinking is correct.

 

[tucksma]

The bible actually criticizes repeated prayers which the catholic faith is known for...

Matthew 6:7
7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

 

[TaylorTG]

@Tucksma

The bible actually criticizes repeated prayers which the catholic faith is known for...

Matthew 6:7
7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

That's funny, because we're not trying to be heard when praying the Rosary. We're meditating on the mysteries of Christ, not chanting out words.

The pagans at that time would probably have yelled out to the Heavens in their prayers, chanting crazy stuff, not us Catholics.

Thank you for providing that bible verse. It doesn't apply to us, for the Rosary is a humble endeavor.