Bewitching Believers Through the Hebrew Roots Movement

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zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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#61
Clearly Messiah condemned Talmudic Judaism, for right reason, yet there is truth in what most people call Jew things.

Possibly the Instructions of Yahweh? Yahweh appointed times?

Zecharyah 8:23, "This is what Yahweh of hosts says: In those days ten men, out of all languages of the nations, will take hold of the tzitzit on the tallit of him who is a Yahdai, saying; We will go with you, for we have heard that Yahweh is with you."

Yeremyah 16:19, "O Yahweh, my strength and my fortress, my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles will come to You from the ends of the earth, and will say: Surely our fathers have inherited nothing but lies and vanity no use at all!"
TALMUD:confused:

Romans 7
Released from the Law

1Or do you not know, brothersa—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law is binding on a person only as long as he lives? 2For a married woman is bound by law to her husband while he lives, but if her husband dies she is released from the law of marriage.b 3Accordingly, she will be called an adulteress if she lives with another man while her husband is alive. But if her husband dies, she is free from that law, and if she marries another man she is not an adulteress.

4Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God. 5For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death. 6But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.

The Law and Sin
7What then shall we say? That the law is sin? By no means! Yet if it had not been for the law, I would not have known sin. For I would not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.” 8But sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, produced in me all kinds of covetousness. For apart from the law, sin lies dead. 9I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin came alive and I died. 10The very commandment that promised life proved to be death to me. 11For sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me. 12So the law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.

13Did that which is good, then, bring death to me? By no means! It was sin, producing death in me through what is good, in order that sin might be shown to be sin, and through the commandment might become sinful beyond measure.

...


Acts 13:39
Through him everyone who believes is set free from every sin, a justification you were not able to obtain under the law of Moses.

Romans 3:22
This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile,

Romans 7:1
Do you not know, brothers and sisters--for I am speaking to those who know the law--that the law has authority over someone only as long as that person lives?

Galatians 3:24
So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith.

Galatians 4:5
to redeem those under the law, that we might receive adoption to sonship.
 
R

RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#62
i just have to say that this thread is deeply ironic given that the person who started it recently befriended a hebrew root rot cultist who was trying to recruit for his cult here on this site...

someone obviously doesn't have as much discernment as they think...


in any case...not all 'hebrew roots' congregations are the same...the hebrew roots movement is not a denomination with a central authority or binding statements of faith...hebrew roots congregations are largely independent of one another and their teachings can differ widely...

so it isn't sensible to generalize so broadly and issue a blanket condemnation of the hebrew roots movement in general...
 
D

danschance

Guest
#63
You didn't answer about where you got your information about the HRM, and do you think yours is superior to my information gotten from the church I went to?
My source of information is from the internet and from Judaizers who come here telling me I must obey the sabbath, dietary laws, etc which are in opposition to NT teachings. I also have no desire to get into a protracted debate on who has the best info.

The bottom line is if you add legalism or works based on the law you are at risk of losing your salvation. You can not serve two masters. You can not serve defunct laws and grace. All of Jesus or none.
 
Oct 31, 2011
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#64
could you show me from scripture where this is said to happen please?

incidentally:

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

there`s that little book again - like nails on a chalkboard for some.
Christ is a Jew
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
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#65
My source of information is from the internet and from Judaizers who come here telling me I must obey the sabbath, dietary laws, etc which are in opposition to NT teachings. I also have no desire to get into a protracted debate on who has the best info.

The bottom line is if you add legalism or works based on the law you are at risk of losing your salvation. You can not serve two masters. You can not serve defunct laws and grace. All of Jesus or none.
so the only way to be saved is be forgiven and then keep doing what was deem wrong in the first place? And if the is no Law any longer noting you can do would be sin...

also with the view you stated how do you reconcile it with these verses?

Revelation 12:17, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went to make war with those who forsook her seed; her seed being those who keep the Laws of Yahweh, and have the testimony of Yahshua Messiah."

Revelation 14:12, "In this manner are the saints purified--by keeping the Laws of Yahweh, in conformity with the faith in Yahshua Messiah."
 
D

danschance

Guest
#66
so the only way to be saved is be forgiven and then keep doing what was deem wrong in the first place? And if the is no Law any longer noting you can do would be sin...

also with the view you stated how do you reconcile it with these verses?

Revelation 12:17, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went to make war with those who forsook her seed; her seed being those who keep the Laws of Yahweh, and have the testimony of Yahshua Messiah."

Revelation 14:12, "In this manner are the saints purified--by keeping the Laws of Yahweh, in conformity with the faith in Yahshua Messiah."

Sorry you are going to have to restate that so I understand what you are asking.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
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#67
so the only way to be saved is be forgiven and then keep doing what was deem wrong in the first place? And if the is no Law any longer noting you can do would be sin...

also with the view you stated how do you reconcile it with these verses?

Revelation 12:17, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went to make war with those who forsook her seed; her seed being those who keep the Laws of Yahweh, and have the testimony of Yahshua Messiah."

Revelation 14:12, "In this manner are the saints purified--by keeping the Laws of Yahweh, in conformity with the faith in Yahshua Messiah."
there are over 1,000 commandments and imperatives in the New Testament (Covenant).
wanna talk about them
 
Dec 18, 2013
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#68
Hahahahaha!!!

Ask the "jew" right before HE does it!!! I'm sure "HE" can give you all the scriptures you want to justify the sentence... =)
Now go argue wiff youseff, po chile...lol!
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
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#69
Hahahahaha!!!

Ask the "jew" right before HE does it!!! I'm sure "HE" can give you all the scriptures you want to justify the sentence... =)
Now go argue wiff youseff, po chile...lol!
better go get rapture ready there, major.
k....don`t forget your meds.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#70
there are over 1,000 commandments and imperatives in the New Testament (Covenant).
wanna talk about them
I agree that there are many Laws in the NT, but i disagree that they are different Laws than in the OT. This is made very clear by Yahchanan (John).

1 Yahchanan 2:4, "He who says: I know Him, but does not keep His Law, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."

1 Yahchanan 2:7, "Brothers, I write no new Laws to you, but the old Laws which you had from the beginning: The old Laws are the Law which you had from the beginning."

Mattithyah 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
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#72
I agree that there are many Laws in the NT, but i disagree that they are different Laws than in the OT.
so we are supposed to be sacrificing bulls and goats, then.
and dividing up land among our 12 tribes...in Israel.
and killing Canaanites and whatnot...okay.

all the moral commandments & laws are restated MANY TIMES in the NT - no sabbath though.

the fact you say you know they are there, but say there are not different just means you dont know what they are.

This is made very clear by Yahchanan (John).

1 Yahchanan 2:4, "He who says: I know Him, but does not keep His Law, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."
NT LAW. all the moral law is there.
and all Christs orders for His church are there.

1 Yahchanan 2:7, "Brothers, I write no new Laws to you, but the old Laws which you had from the beginning: The old Laws are the Law which you had from the beginning."
that was His command for them to love one another...look it up. they were with Him in the beginning.

Mattithyah 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."
Hebrews 12
looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God.

Romans 3:21
Justified by Faith

21But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;

Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."
so you are going to Jerusalem and sacrificing animals.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#73
I agree that there are many Laws in the NT, but i disagree that they are different Laws than in the OT. This is made very clear by Yahchanan (John).

1 Yahchanan 2:4, "He who says: I know Him, but does not keep His Law, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."

1 Yahchanan 2:7, "Brothers, I write no new Laws to you, but the old Laws which you had from the beginning: The old Laws are the Law which you had from the beginning."

Mattithyah 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."
so we are supposed to be sacrificing bulls and goats, then.
and dividing up land among our 12 tribes...in Israel.
and killing Canaanites and whatnot...okay.

all the moral commandments & laws are restated MANY TIMES in the NT - no sabbath though.

the fact you say you know they are there, but say there are not different just means you dont know what they are.



NT LAW. all the moral law is there.
and all Christs orders for His church are there.



that was His command for them to love one another...look it up. they were with Him in the beginning.



Hebrews 12
looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God.

Romans 3:21
Justified by Faith

21But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;

so you are going to Jerusalem and sacrificing animals.
you dont understand Yahweh or His laws, animal Sacrifice was the temporary fill in, the Law WAS MADE FOR THE BLOOD OF MESSIAH. If Sacrificial Law were done away how would you being born 2000 yars after it be cleansed.
 
Dec 26, 2012
5,853
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#74
Can someone explain this? Isn't this an oxy-moron when you have those saying the festivals and the Sabbath days were to be eternal yet God tells Hosea this?

Hosea 2

11 I will stop all her celebrations:
her yearly festivals, her New Moons,
her Sabbath days—all her appointed festivals.

12 I will ruin her vines and her fig trees,
which she said were her pay from her lovers;
I will make them a thicket,
and wild animals will devour them.
13 I will punish her for the days
she burned incense to the Baals;
she decked herself with rings and jewelry,
and went after her lovers,
but me she forgot,”
declares the Lord.


 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#75
you dont understand Yahweh or His laws, animal Sacrifice was the temporary fill in, the Law WAS MADE FOR THE BLOOD OF MESSIAH. If Sacrificial Law were done away how would you being born 2000 yars after it be cleansed.

Romans 7
4Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God.

5For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death.

6But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive,

so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.

The Law and Sin
7What then shall we say? That the law is sin? By no means! Yet if it had not been for the law, I would not have known sin.

For I would not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.”

8But sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, produced in me all kinds of covetousness.

For apart from the law, sin lies dead. 9I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin came alive and I died. 10The very commandment that promised life proved to be death to me. 11For sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me. 12So the law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.
 

Shilo

Senior Member
Aug 31, 2011
1,985
105
63
#76
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Jesus is the word so that makes all of it important .

2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,



Colossians 2:6-7 Therefore, as you received Christ Jesus the Lord,
so walk in him, rooted and built up in him and established in the faith, just as you were taught, abounding in thanksgiving.


Mark 4:17 they have no root in themselves, but endure for a while; then, when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately they fall away.

Matthew 13:6 But when the sun rose they were scorched. And since they had no root, they withered away.

Romans 11 [SUP]16 [/SUP]For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches. [SUP]17 [/SUP]And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, [SUP]18 [/SUP]do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.





 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#77
I AM ready...but yoouur nooot, pookie...LOL!!!
ya...youre 51 ; ready for the rapture; cant wait to see a jew throw me into outer darkness; and say things like pookie.
goodnight. try to get some rest.
or something.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#78
i just have to say that this thread is deeply ironic given that the person who started it recently befriended a hebrew root rot cultist who was trying to recruit for his cult here on this site...

someone obviously doesn't have as much discernment as they think...
are you creeping around my friends list rachel:confused:
or was i having a discussion with someone.
i have no idea who youre talking about - did i join his cult:confused: - LOL.
pretty sad on your part....

in any case...not all 'hebrew roots' congregations are the same...the hebrew roots movement is not a denomination with a central authority or binding statements of faith...hebrew roots congregations are largely independent of one another and their teachings can differ widely...

so it isn't sensible to generalize so broadly and issue a blanket condemnation of the hebrew roots movement in general...
if you read through the thread youll see thats been said many times.
but it never hurts to have your voice of reason help out.


cough.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,783
3,686
113
#79
I am comparing the promises of God toward Israel and its people in the future at the second coming and what Zone believes has already happened to them having no future in this life or the next to come. She does not pray for their future salvation because she does not believe they have a future. Let her express here what future she believes Israel and her people will have at the second coming and in the kingdom to come. Are you ready?
YYes, but that is not the topic. Why be a detailed?