What's so bad about calvinism?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Status
Not open for further replies.
Hey DC
I would like to hear your response to Dino.
How is God the author or not of salvation?
 
1Covenant said:
Hey DC
I would like to hear your response to Dino.
How is God the author or not of salvation?
Click to expand...

I never said God is not the author of our salvation. I quoted an article that best fits my beliefs when it comes to salvation.

I can be the author of a book. But I can't force you to read it. You have to willingly choose to read it.
 
John5:39 You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. 40 But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.
41 “I do not receive honor from men.

Now Jesus says He doesn't recieve honor from men, that men from the scriptures(which testify to Him) think that they have eternal life, yet they dont come to Him.

Here's a few questions. (and my answers, feel free to share your own)

1. Who honors the Son? (the Father)

2. How is Jesus honored in the salvation of men? (He is Glorified by God in the eyes of a son of disobiedence leading to repentance, faith and regeneration of their heart, being made into a fitting bride for the Son)

3. If its the choice of men, why wouldn't the body of Christ be full of the wise and noble? (These were called pharisees back in the day)

4. Did Abraham choose God? Did Issac, Jacob, Moses, any of the Prophets, Jesus Christ, any of the apostles, did Saul accept Christ in his heart as he was walking down the road right before he became Paul?
 
It is correct that God chooses us and we don't choose him, as all the examples from Abraham to Saul agree... but every person in the world is chosen or called in Christ when they hear the Gospel. So when a person hears the Gospel and believes, it is God choosing them first - in Christ.
 
Joshua 24:15 And if it seems evil to you to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
 
Definition_Christ said:
Joshua 24:15 And if it seems evil to you to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
Click to expand...

Yea, you have to consider the difference in Covenants, I did explain this earlier.
 
Definition_Christ said:
Joshua 24:15 And if it seems evil to you to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
Click to expand...

The Jews had a choice of whether to enter into the old covenant with God.

Then Jesus came and said,

He who has an ear, let him hear.
Behold, the kingdom of God is at hand, Repent!!

This is a preview of the new covenant.
Notice the words "I", is not talking about the children of Israel decision.
It is God who TAKES you.
Esekiel 36: 24 For I will take you from among the nations, gather you out of all countries, and bring you into your own land.
It is God who satifies you.
25 Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols.
26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
It is God who causes us to walk in His ways.
27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.
It is God's gift to you, that gave you unmerited forgiveness, to cause you to repent.
31 Then you will remember your evil ways and your deeds that were not good; and you will loathe yourselves in your own sight, for your iniquities and your abominations.
It is for God's Glory, not your own.
32 Not for your sake do I do this,” says the Lord GOD, “let it be known to you. Be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel!”
Incase your wondering if this passage is talking about salvation.
33 ‘Thus says the Lord GOD: “On the day that I cleanse you from all your iniquities, I will also enable you to dwell in the cities, and the ruins shall be rebuilt.
You are saved for His Glory!!
22 “Therefore say to the house of Israel, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD: “I do not do this for your sake, O house of Israel, but for My holy name’s sake, which you have profaned among the nations wherever you went.
 
MahogonySnail said:
It is correct that God chooses us and we don't choose him, as all the examples from Abraham to Saul agree... but every person in the world is chosen or called in Christ when they hear the Gospel. So when a person hears the Gospel and believes, it is God choosing them first - in Christ.
Click to expand...
1cor 1:26For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called.
 
1cor 1:26For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called.
Click to expand...

That is true, but the mechanism that causes the majority of the corinthians to not be wealthy or wise (according to human wisdom), is not because of God's individual election of poor people over rich people, but the fact that the nature of the Gospel by which people are called, aka the foolishness of preaching and Christ crucified, dictates that not many wise men after the flesh, receive the Gospel. To them it is foolishness. See verses 11 to 26.
1Co 1:23 but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block, and to the Greeks foolishness.
 
MahogonySnail said:
That is true, but the mechanism that causes the majority of the corinthians to not be wealthy or wise (according to human wisdom), is not because of God's individual election of poor people over rich people, but the fact that the nature of the Gospel by which people are called, aka the foolishness of preaching and Christ crucified, dictates that not many wise men after the flesh, receive the Gospel. To them it is foolishness. See verses 11 to 26.
1Co 1:23 but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block, and to the Greeks foolishness.
Click to expand...
Luke 10:21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in the Spirit and said, “I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and revealed them to babes. Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Your sight.

Jesus doesn't atribute this to the person but to God.
 
Joshua 24:15 And if it seems evil to you to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
 
The POINT is God's grace does NOT CHANGE. Although His covenants may.

Therefore if God's grace was irresistible you wouldn't be able to CHOOSE WHO YOU SERVE..
That is.... The point.
 
Last edited:
Definition_Christ said:
The POINT is God's grace does NOT CHANGE. Although His covenants may.

Therefore if God's grace was irresistible you wouldn't be able to CHOOSE WHO YOU SERVE..
That is.... The point.
Click to expand...

Israel did choose under the old Covenant ("we agree to do all these things"), new Covenant is free gift under grace, new Covenant is in Hebrews 8:8-12.
 
I guess you're right.. We can learn something from this possibly....

I mean here is another example of how God's grace is not irresistible..

Mark 10
17 Now as He was going out on the road, one came running, knelt before Him, and asked Him, “Good Teacher, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?”
18 So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God.
19 You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery,’ ‘Do not murder,’ ‘Do not steal,’ ‘Do not bear false witness,’ ‘Do not defraud,’ ‘Honor your father and your mother.’”[c]
20 And he answered and said to Him, “Teacher, all these things I have kept from my youth.”
21 Then Jesus, looking at him, loved him, and said to him, “One thing you lack: Go your way, sell whatever you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, take up the cross, and follow Me.”
22 But he was sad at this word, and went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.

Jesus offered this man salvation. In fact He told him exactly what to do. This man rejected Jesus' grace and went away...


I am going to withdraw from this thread on this note.. If you can't accept Scripture then there is no point in arguing with you. However it was nice chatting with you all. Shalom and God bless.
 
Last edited:
MahogonySnail said:
Exactly. God's way has always been by grace through faith.
Click to expand...
Umm, the old covenant was a shadow of the new one. They were choosing to keep the law.

Did you even read what I posted from ek.? It was talking about what was to come, not what already was. You have to go all the way back to Joshua to get an example of choosing God.

In the old testament, only the high priest got to go into the Holy of Holys. In the new testment, the kingdom of God is at hand, here even. The Holy Spirit comes into you. Given by God.

He says, I will put my spirit into you, and cause you to walk in My ways.

The verse you quote isn't an offer to the people to receive the Holy Spirit. Its an offer to keep the law.

God gives the Spirit to whom He pleases.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom
Back