Expounding on the Feasts of the Lord

[john832]

Karraster,
you are new here.
ask your brother john832 if he believes we are moving toward a future 1,000 years with a Temple; priesthood and animal sacrifices for SIN.

thanks in advance for knowing:

1) who you are yea and amen with
2) considering all things (including that blasphemy) implicit in the suggestion JESUS DID NOT FULFILL all things.

ta

I absolutely DO NOT believe in animal sacrifices for sin, that is one more of your absurd twists and lies. The truth is animal sacrifices NEVER paid for sin...

Heb 10:1 For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect.
Heb 10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? For the worshipers, once purified, would have had no more consciousness of sins.
Heb 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year.
Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.

They were the remembrance and as Paul said in Galations...

Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed.
Gal 3:24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

They were the schoolmaster to bring us to Christ.

As far as #2 up there, when did Christ return? If all is fulfilled He must have returned. When was Satan incarcerated as per Rev 20:1-3? Seems to me he is still walking about as a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour. When did the Twelve begin ruling on the twelve tribes of Israel?

Mat 19:28 So Jesus said to them, "Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Rev 1:7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.

And Ms Zone, one would have thought there would have been at least a slight mention of this in the history books. Had you read anything I have posted, instead of being too busy slandering me and many others, you would have known I do not teach animal sacrifices for sin. Oh well...

Mat 13:11 He answered and said to them, "Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given.

 

[Karraster]

Karraster,
you are new here.
ask your brother john832 if he believes we are moving toward a future 1,000 years with a Temple; priesthood and animal sacrifices for SIN.

thanks in advance for knowing:

1) who you are yea and amen with
2) considering all things (including that blasphemy) implicit in the suggestion JESUS DID NOT FULFILL all things.

ta

Zone, I am trying to learn something that is important to me, and I should think anyone would be interested to know more about the God we love and serve. I do not have time to go on witch hunts, and I thank you to please please, let us find some answers.

Everybody does not think like you do, therefore, not interested in specific things you are. I for instance, though am new, have noticed how some here like to go after denominations. I have no interest in that for reason I have no affiliations with any, nor do I plan to. I am interested in what the Bible says, and to understand what it says. I have not read anything about what you describe, and have appreciated John's insight so far. Nevertheless, whatever the case may be, I am a big girl and am certainly not accustomed to being talked to like I am a dog. I am shocked. frankly, by your rudeness, for I have asked you nicely to have respect for my topic of choice. In case you haven't noticed, I would like to point out BELIEVERS posts, for he has put them together so thoughtfully. All I ask is some consideration.

 

[just-me]

dear sister karraster...

the spring feasts
1. passover
2. unleavened bread
3. firstfruits
4. pentecost

the fall feasts
5. trumpets
6. atonement
7. tabernacles

Continuing in the heart of all who trust, and believe these were foreordained for the purpose of reflection and glorifying God through Christ Jesus. Spiritual insight is required to see beyond the physical, and natural aspects of the feasts. As Jesus taught in parables, so should we be able to see the beauty, and reason of these continuing feasts within our hearts, (the temple inside of us) in parallel through the Holy Spirit. It's a continuing "convocation" with self denial in the very depths of the heart, followed with continuing songs of praise toward God.

 

[KohenMatt]

or, you could teach them that Christ died for our sins, though He was without sin.
that sin separates us from God and that all who are born of the Spirit are no longer slaves to sin.
don't sin.

you think spoons and yeast and feathers have anything to do with the Gospel? k...

jews today still perform those empty rituals.
think it helps them at all?



what good would a spoon; feather or yeast have done in addressing this issue with a 7 year old?
should he have been told he wouldn't going either if he didn't act out the feasts; keep the Sinai sabbath; use a sacred name etc?

help me out here.

See, here's the problem: This is a 1 paragraph story, a snapshot in time to a child. You have falsely assumed and criticized that the mother and father involved are teaching their children empty rituals, and NOT the Gospel.

Many people on this Forum, and Zone, you're often one of them, automatically assume that ANYTHING related to the Feasts, or the Torah, or anything Hebrew is being done absent of God's merciful Salvation. This story mentioned nothing of legalism, or empty ritual, or negating the Salvation of God. You and I have had this conversation before, but you saw a reference to the Feast of Unleavened Bread in this story, and you immediately went into criticizing it, instead of seeing the message of the story, which was, in fact, Jesus' salvation for us. You saw the "Feast of Unleavened Bread", and your first thought was "Pointless story void of the Gospel", instead of reading the story and seeing that the parents were sharing a picture of the Gospel,

Many people on here refuse to believe that there can be meaning and revelation found in walking out the Feasts and the commands of God. Now, there are many people and groups who do obey because of ritual obligation. I've seen some of them, I know some of them, I've seen some on this forum, and it saddens me. But there are others, including some on this forum, who find just as much truth and revelation as anyone else here, regardless of stance to the Torah. Not because we're better, or because we have some special relationship with God that those who don't follow the Torah do. But because we're being obedient to things God has placed on our heart. He's called you to obey Him in certain things in your daily life, and He does the same with me. If we were all called to be in the exact same place, knowing the exact same things, and doing the exact same things, we wouldn't have a relationship with God. We'd have a system.

It grows tiresome that whenever anyone mentions any obedience to anything that side of Malachi, we are assumed to be doing it as vain repetitious acts that are negating the Salvation of Yeshua. Then we are forced to defend it, ad naseum, or else be labeled as Judaizers. Many of us are accused of saying that because people don't do things in the Torah, that we think those people are 2nd class citizens. In reality, people who don't follow the Torah often make us out to be 2nd class citizens BECAUSE we do things in the Torah. And they ignore the fact that maybe, just maybe, we're actually drawing closer to God because of it.

Sure, be weary of those who are plainly saying that you HAVE to follow the Torah. Call them out on it. I'll stand beside you on it. But this story communicated nothing of the sort. And the majority of the comments on here related to Hebrew-type things don't come from the perspective of mandatory obedience. It would be nice if maybe, just maybe, that possibility existed more on this forum.

Too idealistic? Perhaps. But a man can hope.

 

[Karraster]

Continuing in the heart of all who trust, and believe these were foreordained for the purpose of reflection and glorifying God through Christ Jesus. Spiritual insight is required to see beyond the physical, and natural aspects of the feasts. As Jesus taught in parables, so should we be able to see the beauty, and reason of these continuing feasts within our hearts, (the temple inside of us) in parallel through the Holy Spirit. It's a continuing "convocation" with self denial in the very depths of the heart, followed with continuing songs of praise toward God.

Ah yes brother just-me, though I am seeing that only half of the feasts were fulfilled as were only half of the prophesies fulfilled. (when I say half of course that is roughly) Are you saying that all have been fulfilled? I am seeing that it is during the Fall Feast that Messiah will come back, not knowing what year of course. Is it not during Feast of Trumpets, corresponding to trumpets in Revelation?

 

[SarahM777]

Reading Revelations about the last days makes me think about the feasts, it all ties in, does it not? I'm wondering what is the ways of the Nicolaitans. The Lord hates the ways of them! Who are they? I wonder if they are those who hates Gods ways and therefore change His laws and celebrations? Hmm, food for thought. They hate the Feasts of the Lord perhaps, and want people to forget all about the feast and get completely away from God so they can live as they want, perhaps. Are there any connections? I'm trying to find information, because I do not understand this thing.

Revelation is NOT about the last days. It's God's showing them that Israel was going to receive all the CURSES in Deuteronomy 28. Read Exodus 7-9,then Deuteronomy 27-32,then Revelation.
God tells them this

Deuteronomy 28

20 The Lord will send on you curses, confusion and rebuke in everything you put your hand to, until you are destroyed and come to sudden ruin because of the evil you have done in forsaking him.[a] 21The Lord will plague you with diseases until he has destroyed you from the land you are entering to possess. 22 The Lord will strike you with wasting disease, with fever and inflammation, with scorching heat and drought, with blight and mildew, which will plague you until you perish. 23 The sky over your head will be bronze, the ground beneath you iron. 24 The Lord will turn the rain of your country into dust and powder; it will come down from the skies until you are destroyed.

25 The Lord will cause you to be defeated before your enemies. You will come at them from one direction but flee from them in seven, and you will become a thing of horror to all the kingdoms on earth. 26 Your carcasses will be food for all the birds and the wild animals, and there will be no one to frighten them away. 27 The Lord will afflict you with the boils of Egypt and with tumors, festering sores and the itch, from which you cannot be cured. 28 The Lord will afflict you with madness, blindness and confusion of mind. 29 At midday you will grope about like a blind person in the dark. You will be unsuccessful in everything you do; day after day you will be oppressed and robbed, with no one to rescue you.

30 You will be pledged to be married to a woman, but another will take her and rape her.You will build a house, but you will not live in it. You will plant a vineyard, but you will not even begin to enjoy its fruit. 31 Your ox will be slaughtered before your eyes, but you will eat none of it. Your donkey will be forcibly taken from you and will not be returned. Your sheep will be given to your enemies, and no one will rescue them. 32 Your sons and daughters will be given to another nation, and you will wear out your eyes watching for them day after day, powerless to lift a hand. 33 A people that you do not know will eat what your land and labor produce, and you will have nothing but cruel oppression all your days.34 The sights you see will drive you mad. 35 The Lord will afflict your knees and legs with painful boils that cannot be cured, spreading from the soles of your feet to the top of your head.
36 The Lord will drive you and the king you set over you to a nation unknown to you or your ancestors. There you will worship other gods, gods of wood and stone. 37 You will become a thing of horror, a byword and an object of ridicule among all the peoples where the Lord will drive you.
38 You will sow much seed in the field but you will harvest little, because locusts will devour it.39 You will plant vineyards and cultivate them but you will not drink the wine or gather the grapes, because worms will eat them. 40 You will have olive trees throughout your country but you will not use the oil, because the olives will drop off. 41 You will have sons and daughters but you will not keep them, because they will go into captivity. 42 Swarms of locusts will take over all your trees and the crops of your land.
43 The foreigners who reside among you will rise above you higher and higher, but you will sink lower and lower. 44 They will lend to you, but you will not lend to them. They will be the head, but you will be the tail.
45 All these curses will come on you. They will pursue you and overtake you until you are destroyed, because you did not obey the Lord your God and observe the commands and decrees he gave you. 46 They will be a sign and a wonder to you and your descendants forever. 47 Because you did not serve the Lord your God joyfully and gladly in the time of prosperity, 48 therefore in hunger and thirst, in nakedness and dire poverty, you will serve the enemies the Lord sends against you. He will put an iron yoke on your neck until he has destroyed you.
49 The Lord will bring a nation against you from far away, from the ends of the earth, like an eagle swooping down, a nation whose language you will not understand, 50 a fierce-looking nation without respect for the old or pity for the young. 51 They will devour the young of your livestock and the crops of your land until you are destroyed. They will leave you no grain, new wine or olive oil, nor any calves of your herds or lambs of your flocks until you are ruined. 52 They will lay siege to all the cities throughout your land until the high fortified walls in which you trust fall down. They will besiege all the cities throughout the land theLord your God is giving you.
53 Because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege, you will eat the fruit of the womb, the flesh of the sons and daughters the Lord your God has given you.54 Even the most gentle and sensitive man among you will have no compassion on his own brother or the wife he loves or his surviving children, 55 and he will not give to one of them any of the flesh of his children that he is eating. It will be all he has left because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege of all your cities. 56 The most gentle and sensitive woman among you—so sensitive and gentle that she would not venture to touch the ground with the sole of her foot—will begrudge the husband she loves and her own son or daughter 57 the afterbirth from her womb and the children she bears. For in her dire need she intends to eat them secretly because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege of your cities.
58 If you do not carefully follow all the words of this law, which are written in this book, and do not revere this glorious and awesome name—the Lord your God— 59 the Lord will send fearful plagues on you and your descendants, harsh and prolonged disasters, and severe and lingering illnesses. 60 He will bring on you all the diseases of Egypt that you dreaded, and they will cling to you. 61 The Lord will also bring on you every kind of sickness and disaster not recorded in this Book of the Law, until you are destroyed. 62 You who were as numerous as the stars in the sky will be left but few in number, because you did not obey the Lord your God. 63 Just as it pleased the Lord to make you prosper and increase in number, so it will please him to ruin and destroy you. You will be uprooted from the land you are entering to possess.
64 Then the Lord will scatter you among all nations, from one end of the earth to the other.There you will worship other gods—gods of wood and stone, which neither you nor your ancestors have known. 65 Among those nations you will find no repose, no resting place for the sole of your foot. There the Lord will give you an anxious mind, eyes weary with longing, and a despairing heart. 66 You will live in constant suspense, filled with dread both night and day, never sure of your life. 67 In the morning you will say, “If only it were evening!” and in the evening, “If only it were morning!”—because of the terror that will fill your hearts and the sights that your eyes will see. 68 The Lord will send you back in ships to Egypt on a journey I said you should never make again. There you will offer yourselves for sale to your enemies as male and female slaves, but no one will buy you.

Cont

 

[SarahM777]

Egypt - Plagues of locusts,darkness covering the land,frogs,boils and sores,the water changing to blood.

Revelation tells us of the JUDGMENTS of locusts,darkness,frogs,boils and sores,and water being changed to blood. IE the very same plagues that God told ISRAEL they would suffer. John goes back to the Song Of Moses which God clearly told Moses this was to be a witness AGAINST ISRAEL.

Deuteronomy 31

19 “Now write down this song and teach it to the Israelites and have them sing it, so that it may be a witness for me against them. 20 When I have brought them into the land flowing with milk and honey, the land I promised on oath to their ancestors, and when they eat their fill and thrive, they will turn to other gods and worship them, rejecting me and breaking my covenant. 21And when many disasters and calamities come on them, this song will testify against them, because it will not be forgotten by their descendants. I know what they are disposed to do, even before I bring them into the land I promised them on oath.”22 So Moses wrote down this song that day and taught it to the Israelites.

 

[just-me]

Ah yes brother just-me, though I am seeing that only half of the feasts were fulfilled as were only half of the prophesies fulfilled. (when I say half of course that is roughly) Are you saying that all have been fulfilled? I am seeing that it is during the Fall Feast that Messiah will come back, not knowing what year of course. Is it not during Feast of Trumpets, corresponding to trumpets in Revelation?

I am saying they are continuous from the time they were ordained of God, starting with the feast of unleavened bread. These feast will be prevalent during the millennial reign of Christ, and we should be conducting these feasts in our hearts at this moment also. Time of fulfillment is not in the equation for me because I have one life span that doesn't include the time of Biblical history. Therefore, the feasts are observed in my heart at this time, and I continue to investigate the spiritual meaning for the benefit that God has given to me on a personal basis. Therefore, the feasts, and what they are for, are fulfilled within, and complete. It is up to me to amplify my spiritual understanding of them.

 

[john832]

I never learn and Greg King nailed it 100 over 100.

 

[john832]

Ah yes brother just-me, though I am seeing that only half of the feasts were fulfilled as were only half of the prophesies fulfilled. (when I say half of course that is roughly) Are you saying that all have been fulfilled? I am seeing that it is during the Fall Feast that Messiah will come back, not knowing what year of course. Is it not during Feast of Trumpets, corresponding to trumpets in Revelation?

Excellent insight. This is exactly what the Feast of Trumpets shadows.

 

[john832]

Probably the one that is least understood is the Last Great Day. Anyone care to take a whack at it?

 

[Karraster]

See, here's the problem: This is a 1 paragraph story, a snapshot in time to a child. You have falsely assumed and criticized that the mother and father involved are teaching their children empty rituals, and NOT the Gospel.

Many people on this Forum, and Zone, you're often one of them, automatically assume that ANYTHING related to the Feasts, or the Torah, or anything Hebrew is being done absent of God's merciful Salvation. This story mentioned nothing of legalism, or empty ritual, or negating the Salvation of God. You and I have had this conversation before, but you saw a reference to the Feast of Unleavened Bread in this story, and you immediately went into criticizing it, instead of seeing the message of the story, which was, in fact, Jesus' salvation for us. You saw the "Feast of Unleavened Bread", and your first thought was "Pointless story void of the Gospel", instead of reading the story and seeing that the parents were sharing a picture of the Gospel,

Many people on here refuse to believe that there can be meaning and revelation found in walking out the Feasts and the commands of God. Now, there are many people and groups who do obey because of ritual obligation. I've seen some of them, I know some of them, I've seen some on this forum, and it saddens me. But there are others, including some on this forum, who find just as much truth and revelation as anyone else here, regardless of stance to the Torah. Not because we're better, or because we have some special relationship with God that those who don't follow the Torah do. But because we're being obedient to things God has placed on our heart. He's called you to obey Him in certain things in your daily life, and He does the same with me. If we were all called to be in the exact same place, knowing the exact same things, and doing the exact same things, we wouldn't have a relationship with God. We'd have a system.

It grows tiresome that whenever anyone mentions any obedience to anything that side of Malachi, we are assumed to be doing it as vain repetitious acts that are negating the Salvation of Yeshua. Then we are forced to defend it, ad naseum, or else be labeled as Judaizers. Many of us are accused of saying that because people don't do things in the Torah, that we think those people are 2nd class citizens. In reality, people who don't follow the Torah often make us out to be 2nd class citizens BECAUSE we do things in the Torah. And they ignore the fact that maybe, just maybe, we're actually drawing closer to God because of it.

Sure, be weary of those who are plainly saying that you HAVE to follow the Torah. Call them out on it. I'll stand beside you on it. But this story communicated nothing of the sort. And the majority of the comments on here related to Hebrew-type things don't come from the perspective of mandatory obedience. It would be nice if maybe, just maybe, that possibility existed more on this forum.

Too idealistic? Perhaps. But a man can hope.

Thank you for explaining this, I was a bit perplexed why it was inflammatory. I have many fond memories of my grandparents telling how it used to be for them as children. Let me tell you, what a picture they could paint about the days of horse and buggy. It endeared them to me so much, and almost felt as I had walked in their shoes. I can only imagine the stories handed down centuries by the people who was lead by Moses! and I want to know more, never meant to upset anyone. I don't know why it gives the impression that we have no need of our Messiah, for it would not be possible to begin to deserve Heaven!

But I will tell it plainly. I have started keeping the Sabbath for study and growing close to my Lord, and I will never make apology for that. However, aren't there enough Sabbath threads? Never was the intent here to draw focus to Sabbath, that is everyone's personal choice. When we meet our Maker it will be between Him and ourselves alone. We should work out our salvation as our heart is telling us.

 

[Karraster]

I am saying they are continuous from the time they were ordained of God, starting with the feast of unleavened bread. These feast will be prevalent during the millennial reign of Christ, and we should be conducting these feasts in our hearts at this moment also. Time of fulfillment is not in the equation for me because I have one life span that doesn't include the time of Biblical history. Therefore, the feasts are observed in my heart at this time, and I continue to investigate the spiritual meaning for the benefit that God has given to me on a personal basis. Therefore, the feasts, and what they are for, are fulfilled within, and complete. It is up to me to amplify my spiritual understanding of them.

Amplify my spiritual understanding of them, I guess you could say that's what I'm trying to do also. It's why I want to talk about them in a real life kind of way, because that's where it starts for me. Guess I don't have a keen imagination.

 

[Karraster]

SarahM, all my life I've thought that Revelations was about the last days!!! I don't think anyone can dissuade me there, my grandparents thought that, my parents, it's not computing for me, what you said.

 

[Karraster]

Excellent insight. This is exactly what the Feast of Trumpets shadows.

Thank you! What else could it mean? I can only think what I think now, unless someone shows me it's not right.

 

[john832]

SarahM, all my life I've thought that Revelations was about the last days!!! I don't think anyone can dissuade me there, my grandparents thought that, my parents, it's not computing for me, what you said.

Preterism.

 

[SarahM777]

SarahM, all my life I've thought that Revelations was about the last days!!! I don't think anyone can dissuade me there, my grandparents thought that, my parents, it's not computing for me, what you said.

Been there myself,but with all the years of how people KEEP CHANGING what is suppose to happen and who the players are it begins to make one wonder if those who are claiming it was about the end times are really telling the truth. Also read Josephus about the Jewish wars and what happened from 67-70 AD and it throws a whole different light on things.

 

[john832]

Thank you! What else could it mean? I can only think what I think now, unless someone shows me it's not right.

I don't beleive that they can. Trumpets is about the trumpets of Revelation, focusing on the Last Trumpet...

Rev 11:15 Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!"

 

[just-me]

Amplify my spiritual understanding of them, I guess you could say that's what I'm trying to do also. It's why I want to talk about them in a real life kind of way, because that's where it starts for me. Guess I don't have a keen imagination.

One must understand the ephah (deal in KJV) is related to "what, where, when, why, how etc" and even more. In the feast of tabernacles (trumpets, and atonement preempting) we see a feast that suggests a look and remembrance of all the other reasons for celebrations during the entire year. The measuring of flour (God's word) was 3 tenths for a bullock, 2 tenths for a ram, and 1 tenth for a lamb. This is a clear spiritual relation that Israel celebrated in retrospect, and at the same time knew there was more coming. Still, as of today, the feasts have not changed, and the amount of flour is the same. For me, so far, I think the feasts are much more than a relation to prophecy even though the 2 rams in the feast of tabernacles would quite possibly represent Joshua, and Caleb. I guess that’s where I am coming from.

By understanding that ten percent of an “ephah” is not the full “deal,” the answer is found in Exodus 16:36 where it says “Now an “omer” is the tenth part of an “ephah.”

To me the quantity of three omers for the bullock represents more than one thing. I must interject, reverting back to the ephah which presents itself as one as having questions or a shadow of things yet to come. The omer would represent one tenth of those questions of contemplation that the children of Israel would have had during that time in history. They knew of the three patriarchs, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and the promises/covenant that God had made with them.

They hadn’t experienced the sandal covenant yet, but knew about entering into a promised land. And they hadn’t been given a covenant of salt that was to be promised to king David, yet those are the main three promises of the Old Testament. Three is a profound number illustrating repentance in the story of Jonah, for he spent three days, and three nights in the belly of the big fish, and finally went to Nineveh and caused them to have a repentant heart. Last of all, Jesus spent three days and three nights in the tomb. That takes care of the three portions for the bullock.

 

[Karraster]

I never learn and Greg King nailed it 100 over 100.

??? that one's lost to me..can i google it?