Theory of Evolution

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zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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Hi Zone, I always wondered myself why the Pepper Moth was so frequently sighted as an example of evolution. So I read the article you linked to and now I understand. It turns out that the dark pepper moths were unknown until 1811. Their rise in the population was gradual and brought on by natural selection.

“Although a majority of light-coloured moths initially continued to be produced, most of them didn't survive, while the dark-coloured moths flourished. As a result, over the course of many generations of moths, the allele frequency gradually shifted towards the dominant allele, as more and more dark-bodied moths survived to reproduce. By the mid-19th century, the number of dark-coloured moths had risen noticeably, and by 1895, the percentage of dark-coloured moths in the Manchester peppered moth population was reported at 98%, a dramatic change (by almost 1000%) from the original frequency.”

Note also that “Evolution is defined as "a change in the frequency of an allele within a gene pool"”. So by definition, this is evolution at work. According to the article a single moth with the darker morph had be found in 1811, but not till 1848 did a second individual turn up; this one in Manchester. By 1895 the darker variety had increased in the Manchester region to represent 98% of the population. This dramatic shift in the allele population is a prime example of natural selection at work and natural selection is the backbone of evolution.

Your error is in thinking that only the rise of a new species heralds evolution. Micro-evolution, which you accept, and macro-evolution are different sides of the same coin. It is through micro-evolution that macro-evolution occurs.
not so fast Cycel:

"After laboring on it for many years, Kettlewell finally published his magnum opus, The Evolution of Melanism, in 1973, but the reviews were lukewarm. Furthermore, Stephen Jay Gould, who would soon become the chief antagonist of the British neo-Darwinists of the rising generation (most notably Maynard Smith and Richard Dawkins, as well as the followers of Dr. Ford), had just published his first influential paper in 1965. His Harvard colleague, Richard Lewontin (who was, like Gould, a Marxist), published a book in 1974 which would "portray the Oxford School crowd as silly toffs with butterfly nets" (Hooper, op. cit., p. 216). Even in England, younger scientists were finding they could not replicate Kettlewell's field results, and were raising questions as to why.

Since his death, many researchers have been raising doubts about various aspects of his research, and even those of his boss, E. B. Ford. One of the main questioners has been Ted Sargent, emeritus professor of Biology at the University of Massachusetts, who insists that the famous photographs of moths on tree trunks published by Kettlewell were all fakes.

Sargent's first paper expressing these doubts was published in 1976, but few seemed to notice. Eventually, however, many others also began finding flaws in Kettlewell's work. In the process, some of these critics have been accused of "giving aid and comfort to the enemy, the creationists" (Hooper, p. 286). We cannot discuss all these criticisms here, but the conclusion was, as Hooper says: ". . . at its core lay flawed science, dubious methodology, and wishful thinking" (p. xx). Some went so far as to accuse Ford and Kettlewell of actual fraud, but most thought it was just poor science. Cambridge lepidopterist, Michael Majerus, in his book, Melanism: Evolution in Action "left no doubt that the classic story was wrong in almost every detail" (Hooper, p. 283). Yet, amazingly, he still believed the basic story of the shift in coloration of the peppered moth as caused by bird predation and natural selection.

Evolutionists and the Moth Myth

.....

click below for a laugh:)

Journal of Evolutionary Biology Confirms Jonathan Wells (by Name) on Peppered Moth Myth - See more at: <em>Journal of Evolutionary Biology</em> Confirms Jonathan Wells (by Name) on Peppered Moth Myth - Evolution News & Views

^ do read this...revealing the "scientific method" of some performing experiments "in the field":rolleyes:

both species existed; neither morphed into anything else.
i have no problem with adaptations - within species.
that's not evolution. one species will never become another.
:)
 
Dec 26, 2012
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Well,I'm waiting for them to explain how you go from simple cell division reproduction to egg laying,which means that you would have to have both a female and male with complete reproductive systems,to another change from egg laying to live birth. And on top of that most egg layers are able to survive from the time they hatch with the exception of birds who are TOTALLY dependent on the parents to survive and they go out and get food for the infants to mammals whom their mothers PRODUCE the food for the infants. (By the way all are total and complete systems) :confused:
 
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2Thewaters

Guest
Common prctice to lie about evolution.

I read a story about a scientific team that went deep into the Amazon where few scientists have ever gone some time ago, and they found like thirty species they never saw before.
So they wrote it u as, See? New species are being created all the time.

Stories like this really show what liars the scientists are.
It is obvious they are taking advantge of the situation...

But
Why do they do it?

Because of the education syste.
To get a doctorate degree you have to write something new exciting, for your paper, and everyone is willing to take proof of evolution

It is like they are trying to convince themselves.
The missing link is a holy grail to them
They hope they always find ONE when every year trillions of SAME species are created exactly same species..
It just shoes the truth

that they are desperate liars.


The question
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
Well,I'm waiting for them to explain how you go from simple cell division reproduction to egg laying,which means that you would have to have both a female and male with complete reproductive systems,to another change from egg laying to live birth. And on top of that most egg layers are able to survive from the time they hatch with the exception of birds who are TOTALLY dependent on the parents to survive and they go out and get food for the infants to mammals whom their mothers PRODUCE the food for the infants. (By the way all are total and complete systems) :confused:

but if you have eons and eons of star-stuffffff.
anythings possible, right:confused:
 
Dec 26, 2012
5,853
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but if you have eons and eons of star-stuffffff.
anythings possible, right:confused:
They never touch those questions,so does that mean they believe in magic? :confused:


 
2

2Thewaters

Guest
Common prctice to lie about evolution.

I read a story about a scientific team that went deep into the Amazon where few scientists have ever gone some time ago, and they found like thirty species they never saw before.
So they wrote it u as, See? New species are being created all the time.

Stories like this really show what liars the scientists are.
It is obvious they are taking advantge of the situation...

But
Why do they do it?

Because of the education syste.
To get a doctorate degree you have to write something new exciting, for your paper, and everyone is willing to take proof of evolution

It is like they are trying to convince themselves.
The missing link is a holy grail to them
They hope they always find ONE when every year trillions of SAME species are created exactly same species..
It just shoes the truth

that they are desperate liars.


The question
 
2

2Thewaters

Guest
It is Common prctice to lie about evolution.

I read a story about a scientific team that went deep into the Amazon where few scientists have ever gone some time ago, and they found like thirty species they never saw before.
So they wrote it u as, See? New species are being created all the time.

Stories like this really show what liars the scientists are.
It is obvious they are taking advantage of every situation...

If a creationist would even try this, they would turn on him with a vengeance.

But
Why do they do it?

Because of the education system.

No one proposes, or funds creation studies, they would not pass the class, they would kick them out, so it is not fair.
To get a doctorate degree you have to write something new exciting, for your paper, and everyone is willing to take proof of evolution

It is like they are trying to convince themselves.
The missing link is a holy grail to them, they say they found it all the time, and they dont...

National geopraphic has been caught many times with the big hoax.

The difficulty finding one prooves it does not happen, because if one suddenly were to show up, the next generation would select it out.

Why do they believe these lies with their lying tarack record?

Because the devil folows around evolutionists, to hypnotize all they talk to, and they believe a lie

Wherever an evolutionist goes, a devil is sent to go with him

when you meat a teacher of evolution, there is a devil with them.

lucifer said that himself to the eart council.

Whenever you meet an ecolutionist, you should praise God
Praise the Lord. Praise the Lord. Blessed be the Lord.
nd the evolution spell is always broken
try it. It is funny what they say, without their demon to plant lies, they are helpless, like a kid without a brain.

The MOTH was always used as proof AGAINST evolution showing how you can change pesentation

and it was very effective, so they took the moth and said it was PROOGF of evolution!

and nothing changed.

expression of alleles is not evolutiont

there were two dogs in ark and all other types of dogs came from them

and dog breeders know how to do it.

then they call it evolution because they like to lie.

evolutionists are liars that have been caught hundreds of times with thier lies and they keep on lying

the evolutionary bunny gets on going and going and going until God destroys them with the supervolcano...

It is an affront to the Eternal cretor to diss his work.

You cant even make one insulin molecule from scratch, and they say an animal with trillions of the molecules grew itself..
liars, their reward is with the lake of fire.

They hope they always find ONE when every year trillions of SAME species are created exactly same species..
It just shoes the truth

that they are desperate liars.


Why?
The devil made them do it.
 
Dec 26, 2012
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And how did the first two shrimp find each other in 332,500,000 cubic miles of water? One being being male and one being female. (They aren't that big to begin with) :confused:

And human beings think they have a hard time finding a spouse.
:p
 
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2Thewaters

Guest
They gave their hearts to the devil...
 
2

2Thewaters

Guest
How did Tow molecules of amino acids find themselves in the ocean when their half lives are a few minutes?

because of the half life of proteins in solution, all the proteins in one cell would have to self create on the same minute and assemble, or they would denature

idiocy.
 
Dec 26, 2012
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The sad part is they NEVER get WHO the source of the big bang is. God is the source of the big bang. What is missed is that when one speaks it creates sound waves,sound waves are a form of energy.

Genesis 1

3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good,and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

God spoke creating sound waves which became light and matter. E=MC2
 
2

2Thewaters

Guest
The theory of evolution
is to me the same theory as

The theory of the flying spaghetti monster.
 
Aug 25, 2013
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Common prctice to lie about evolution.

I read a story about a scientific team that went deep into the Amazon where few scientists have ever gone some time ago, and they found like thirty species they never saw before.
So they wrote it u as, See? New species are being created all the time.

Stories like this really show what liars the scientists are.
I've heard of the new species to science being found in the Amazon. I saw no suggestion that these species had just evolved. I forget the figures but the researchers estimated there may yet be hundreds of undiscovered species there to be found.

Can you direct me to a scientific source that says these newly found species are thought to be newly evolved?
 
Aug 25, 2013
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The sad part is they NEVER get WHO the source of the big bang is. God is the source of the big bang.
And your evidence is? You can site Genesis if you want but the Bible has no reference to the Big Bang. I suspect your thinking goes something like this: 'I can't understand how the Big Bang could occur without God's intervention, therefore God is the cause of the Big Bang.' Unfortunately Sarah that's not evidence, it is only guess work.

SarahM777 said:
What is missed is that when one speaks it creates sound waves,sound waves are a form of energy.

Genesis 1

3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.4 God saw that the light was good,and he separated the light from the darkness.5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

God spoke creating sound waves which became light and matter. E=MC2
Sound cannot propagate in space as it needs a medium to travel through.

Except for a very faint sprinkling of light from the stars all of our daylight comes from the sun. God's first act is to create light so that there can be night and day and days can then be counted, yet the sun is not created by God till the fourth day. Notice Genesis says God separated light from darkness? "And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day." Notice there is no concept that the rotation of the light side of the earth into shadow is what causes night. Notice there is no earth, yet there was an evening followed by a morning. The light came up and the light went down, but there was no rotating earth and there was no sun. And then God throws the sun into the mix on the fourth day so time can be better measured.

It might help you to understand better if I tell you what I've heard. The order of events in the Genesis creation story apparently follows the same pattern of events as in the Babylonian creation myth. I haven't looked into this to confirm it. I do know, as you also are aware, that the Jews spent two or three generations in Babylonian captivity. I'll let you make the inferences.
 
2

2Thewaters

Guest
You dont have to believe something for it to still be true

and believing in something does not make it true
evolution is impossible

Your reasonings can be profven wrong, but you would not admit it

so go your way and believe what you want

People with a good heart are those searching for the truth not trying to crush it.
 
2

2Thewaters

Guest
I dont see how this can be so it isnt true.

wont work
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
38,129
13,681
113
Sound cannot propagate in space as it needs a medium to travel through.

light, too is a wave, and needs a medium to propagate. there is (probably) the Higgs field, but there was also a time when that didn't exist.

but it's also a particle. but there was also a time when particles could not have existed.

truth be told, we don't know what it is. man's understanding is incomplete. man is finite & flawed - but some men rely on the reasoning of this finite, flawed and ignorant creature as though it could stand in judgement of God - really using our brains there, huh??

but God's speech is not like man's speech. His voice can melt mountains (Psalm 46:6) and strip forests bare, it is like lightening, and shakes the whole earth (Psalm 29). all things were made by His Word (John 1:1-5).

 
2

2Thewaters

Guest
Light is a creation continuously
It is Gods power
he controls the rate of creation
light goes to every man equally
it is the same no matter what level or speed you are at
It proves God is divine
 
Sep 14, 2013
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And your evidence is? You can site Genesis if you want but the Bible has no reference to the Big Bang. I suspect your thinking goes something like this: 'I can't understand how the Big Bang could occur without God's intervention, therefore God is the cause of the Big Bang.' Unfortunately Sarah that's not evidence, it is only guess work.


Sound cannot propagate in space as it needs a medium to travel through.

Except for a very faint sprinkling of light from the stars all of our daylight comes from the sun. God's first act is to create light so that there can be night and day and days can then be counted, yet the sun is not created by God till the fourth day. Notice Genesis says God separated light from darkness? "And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day." Notice there is no concept that the rotation of the light side of the earth into shadow is what causes night. Notice there is no earth, yet there was an evening followed by a morning. The light came up and the light went down, but there was no rotating earth and there was no sun. And then God throws the sun into the mix on the fourth day so time can be better measured.

It might help you to understand better if I tell you what I've heard. The order of events in the Genesis creation story apparently follows the same pattern of events as in the Babylonian creation myth. I haven't looked into this to confirm it. I do know, as you also are aware, that the Jews spent two or three generations in Babylonian captivity. I'll let you make the inferences.
Coincidentally... This somehow all fits in the severe lack of knowledge about the universe that primitive farmers had at the time.

Surely there can't be a link there?

I'll repeat something I saw on here many moons ago.

"Isn't it quite alarming that my Six year old child understands more about the universe than the people who wrote the bible"
 
T

tucksma

Guest
I don't know if this was brought up or not....but Charles Darwin even stated at the end of his life that he was wrong.