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I
Actually there is a difference between Courting and Dating. If you want, you can read Arms of Love by Carmen Marcovx.
For your questions 2 and 3, to start, I'd say if God wants it to happen then it'll happen, even though it doesn't make sense. Remember, as a general rule, when God intervene He always does what's super natural beyond our understanding and expectations BUT God does not work randomly either!!
You've mentioned Ephesians 5. Ephesians 5 simply talks about a Holy life with wisdom. So Courting is not evil. It is wise to get to know the person first. But all has to roll through God by putting God first in everything, practicing wisdom at all times and if you don't have wisdom, ask God for it. He is generous to give us more than we ask for. Think of it that way, your Father is the Lord of Lords and King of Kings. None believers don't get to see your Father, they see You. So how you behave and act will reflect who your Father is and if He raised you well or not. We carry Christ's name, then we better represent Him well. So during courting there must not be any sexual immorality in any way possible, not even actions that implies to anything sexual.
For your questions 2 and 3, to start, I'd say if God wants it to happen then it'll happen, even though it doesn't make sense. Remember, as a general rule, when God intervene He always does what's super natural beyond our understanding and expectations BUT God does not work randomly either!!
You've mentioned Ephesians 5. Ephesians 5 simply talks about a Holy life with wisdom. So Courting is not evil. It is wise to get to know the person first. But all has to roll through God by putting God first in everything, practicing wisdom at all times and if you don't have wisdom, ask God for it. He is generous to give us more than we ask for. Think of it that way, your Father is the Lord of Lords and King of Kings. None believers don't get to see your Father, they see You. So how you behave and act will reflect who your Father is and if He raised you well or not. We carry Christ's name, then we better represent Him well. So during courting there must not be any sexual immorality in any way possible, not even actions that implies to anything sexual.
Interesting note: I can't find an example of "biblical courtship" anywhere in the Bible. Generally, it involved an exchange of possessions and an underage girl moving into the family home of a much older groom. I'd like to see the Duggars approve THAT for their 35 daughters.
[not really picking on the Duggars; they seem to be decent human beings. Don't hurt me, please!]
[not really picking on the Duggars; they seem to be decent human beings. Don't hurt me, please!]
J
I would think it wise for a believer to get to know someone before they marry them, seek God's direction regarding the matter and conduct himself/herself in a godly manner whether they call it dating or courting.
Questions 2 and 3 are regarding the sections of Ephesians 5 I have bolded below:
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her [SUP]26 [/SUP]to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, [SUP]27 [/SUP]and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. [SUP]28 [/SUP]In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. [SUP]29 [/SUP]After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church— [SUP]30 [/SUP]for we are members of his body. [SUP]31 [/SUP]“For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.”[SUP][c][/SUP] [SUP]32 [/SUP]This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. [SUP]33 [/SUP]However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.
Questions 2 and 3 are regarding the sections of Ephesians 5 I have bolded below:
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her [SUP]26 [/SUP]to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, [SUP]27 [/SUP]and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. [SUP]28 [/SUP]In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. [SUP]29 [/SUP]After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church— [SUP]30 [/SUP]for we are members of his body. [SUP]31 [/SUP]“For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.”[SUP][c][/SUP] [SUP]32 [/SUP]This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. [SUP]33 [/SUP]However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.
A
I think a lot has to do with the definition of date....to go out with someone you barely know alone is not wise.
Getting to know someone in a group setting ei your church.. Or other gathering of like beliefs....which would be the logical place to meet a person who would be an equal yoke would be a first step. Then after a time of getting to know a person that way and praying about them possibly being the one....then taking next steps and 'dating' after counsel from Pastors and approval of her parents. That kind of 'dating' has a better chance of not ending in disaster.
....On a personal note...We lived in a small community...small church..with very few prospects for finding mr right for my eldest daughter. Having been to college and not meeting him there... I approved of her chatting on this site....she met a young man and they chatted for two years. He called her Pastor and then called me( no dad in the picture) We consented to his coming to 'mert' us....Because we had prayed and prepared God gave us a love for this Godly young man immediately. He is now my son in law...with #2 grandchild on the way. They did it right....dated Biblically in this new internet society...and had their first kiss at the altar.
Getting to know someone in a group setting ei your church.. Or other gathering of like beliefs....which would be the logical place to meet a person who would be an equal yoke would be a first step. Then after a time of getting to know a person that way and praying about them possibly being the one....then taking next steps and 'dating' after counsel from Pastors and approval of her parents. That kind of 'dating' has a better chance of not ending in disaster.
....On a personal note...We lived in a small community...small church..with very few prospects for finding mr right for my eldest daughter. Having been to college and not meeting him there... I approved of her chatting on this site....she met a young man and they chatted for two years. He called her Pastor and then called me( no dad in the picture) We consented to his coming to 'mert' us....Because we had prayed and prepared God gave us a love for this Godly young man immediately. He is now my son in law...with #2 grandchild on the way. They did it right....dated Biblically in this new internet society...and had their first kiss at the altar.
J
I agree with you, angelmyst. It comes down to an individual's definition of dating/courting. We've had sooooooo many threads about this and there was very little majority agreement other than:
1. We shouldn't date/court for sport.
2. We shouldn't be sleeping around.
3. We need to seek God's input regarding anyone we consider dating/courting.
4. We should not be dating unbelievers.
1. We shouldn't date/court for sport.
2. We shouldn't be sleeping around.
3. We need to seek God's input regarding anyone we consider dating/courting.
4. We should not be dating unbelievers.
I've been courting the idea of working nights a hospital nearby.
Also I might be dating myself a bit but, Stilly's old Avatar reminded me of something...
In other News, I have yet to see a practical difference in the whole Christian Dating VS Courting realm.
If I run into two couples at Denny's and I ask, "So, are you guys on a date?" I suspect the answer would be yes, even if they were "Courting" But, it might be just as likely that I get, "Oh heavens no, we're courting, hurr durr durr."
Also I might be dating myself a bit but, Stilly's old Avatar reminded me of something...
In other News, I have yet to see a practical difference in the whole Christian Dating VS Courting realm.
If I run into two couples at Denny's and I ask, "So, are you guys on a date?" I suspect the answer would be yes, even if they were "Courting" But, it might be just as likely that I get, "Oh heavens no, we're courting, hurr durr durr."
S
THIS. This is PRECISELY my point. It's an argument over SEMANTICS. Based off of what I have seen here, everyone who touts courting as THE ONLY TRUE WAY TO BLAH BLAH BLAH have one particular hang up, and that is their instance that dating is sexual.
Since when?
As I stated (either previously on this thread or perhaps a different one), I have been in six long-term dating relationships, and in only ONE of them did I enter into sexual congress. In one of the relationships that wasn't sexual, I shared a hotel room and bed with the woman for several nights when we went on a road trip together.
*GASP* You mean it's possible for two people to share a bed and NOT COPULATE LIKE WEASELS? That is scientifically impossible, isn't it?
In my ten months here, all I've been able to divine from all the rants about how we should be courting and not dating is this: courting is a word we've decided to use, because the world uses the word dating for the exact same thing, and we cannot possibly ever ever EVER use the same word the world is using. *gasps, clutches pearls* But dating involves sex! NO. Not always. Dating involves...going on dates. Going on dates involves...spending time getting to know a person to see if you like each other and are compatible.
Spending time getting to know a person to see if you like them and are compatible? Isn't that what courting is?
Oh no, I've gone cross-eyed...
Since when?
As I stated (either previously on this thread or perhaps a different one), I have been in six long-term dating relationships, and in only ONE of them did I enter into sexual congress. In one of the relationships that wasn't sexual, I shared a hotel room and bed with the woman for several nights when we went on a road trip together.
*GASP* You mean it's possible for two people to share a bed and NOT COPULATE LIKE WEASELS? That is scientifically impossible, isn't it?
In my ten months here, all I've been able to divine from all the rants about how we should be courting and not dating is this: courting is a word we've decided to use, because the world uses the word dating for the exact same thing, and we cannot possibly ever ever EVER use the same word the world is using. *gasps, clutches pearls* But dating involves sex! NO. Not always. Dating involves...going on dates. Going on dates involves...spending time getting to know a person to see if you like each other and are compatible.
Spending time getting to know a person to see if you like them and are compatible? Isn't that what courting is?
Oh no, I've gone cross-eyed...
I would agree with you that the idea of christian dating has largely been lost on the christian population. In recent history, the idea of christian courting really came about with the goal of reducing the numbers of partners one has. Dating for many people involves an intense month or two followed by separation. This roller-coaster can have quite a toll on someone's heart and mind. Looking at this with a christian world-view, these types of relationships aren't a good portrayal of love, with or without sex; enter courting. Courting cuts right to the basis of the matter. One doesn't enter into a courting relationship with a random girl off the street, or even a girl from his bible study. Courting requires fellowship with God and with those Christians who have most impacted your life (in most cases this would be parents or a pastor); righteous counsel is good. Once the decision is made, the expectations are clear: We will marry unless God interferes. As I experienced first-hand, this intense commitment and close relationship brings out strong feelings more quickly than a typical dating relationship. These feelings make it much more difficult to avoid physical interactions. To prevent this, courting pushes for one-on-one time to be spent in a public venue. So yes, you can go on dates while courting, just like you can go on dates while you're married. In the end, though, the expectations and commitment level in courting is much greater than a typical dating scenario. Just like a married couple can go on a date and still be married, a courting couple can go on a date and still be courting. That doesn't mean that everyone who says they're courting really is, and I certainly don't claim to be the defacto expert on courting, but I have spent almost 15 years studying it, people's opinions of what it is, how/why to do it, and how it has grown and changed.
As mentioned before, I think a lot of religious culture has become very cavalier with who they "court" so it may truly be 'dating with God in mind'; Unfortunately, there isn't another word to describe this kind of relationship so it seems the ideas have become muddied and blurred.
In conclusion, to answer Shouryu's specific question and sum up the rest: Nope, dating is about determining compatibility; courting is about coming together to determine if God fully supports the union.
As mentioned before, I think a lot of religious culture has become very cavalier with who they "court" so it may truly be 'dating with God in mind'; Unfortunately, there isn't another word to describe this kind of relationship so it seems the ideas have become muddied and blurred.
In conclusion, to answer Shouryu's specific question and sum up the rest: Nope, dating is about determining compatibility; courting is about coming together to determine if God fully supports the union.
J
Courtship - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
court·ship
noun \-ˌship\ : the activities that occur when people are developing a romantic relationship that could lead to marriage or the period of time when such activities occur
: the behavior of animals that leads to sexual activity or the period of time when such behavior occurs
: an attempt to convince someone to support you or to choose you or your organization
Synonyms
courting, dating, lovemaking, suit
[SUP]2[/SUP]court
verb : to act in a way that shows that you want or intend to get married
of an animal : to perform the actions that lead to sexual activity
: to give a lot of attention and praise to (someone) in order to get approval, support, etc.
1
a : to seek to gain or achieve <court power>
b (1) : allure, tempt (2) : to act so as to invite or provoke <courts disaster>
2
a : to seek the affections of; especially : to seek to win a pledge of marriage from
b of an animal : to perform actions in order to attract for mating <a male bird courting a female>
3
a : to seek to attract (as by solicitous attention or offers of advantages) <college teams courting high school basketball stars>
b : to seek an alliance with
1
: to engage in social activities leading to engagement and marriage
2
of an animal : to engage in activity leading to mating
Synonyms ask (for), flirt (with), invite, woo, look for, go steady, keep company, make love
I have more questions:
1. Does anyone, anywhere have any scripture whatsoever regarding either courting or dating?
Not a book/link reference written by someone we don't know, but actual scriptural references showing that this is somehow more godly than dating someone with the intent of getting to know that person for the purpose of possible marriage while abstaining from sex?
Anyone? Anyone? Or are we going to turn this into another merry-go-round thread where people argue semantics and opinions?
2. What does the courting vs dating debate have to do with whether or not Christians can court/date and not have sex? Are you saying that if you choose to call it dating rather than courting you are somehow obligated to have sex?
court·ship
noun \-ˌship\ : the activities that occur when people are developing a romantic relationship that could lead to marriage or the period of time when such activities occur
: the behavior of animals that leads to sexual activity or the period of time when such behavior occurs
: an attempt to convince someone to support you or to choose you or your organization
Synonyms
courting, dating, lovemaking, suit
[SUP]2[/SUP]court
verb : to act in a way that shows that you want or intend to get married
of an animal : to perform the actions that lead to sexual activity
: to give a lot of attention and praise to (someone) in order to get approval, support, etc.
1
a : to seek to gain or achieve <court power>
b (1) : allure, tempt (2) : to act so as to invite or provoke <courts disaster>
2
a : to seek the affections of; especially : to seek to win a pledge of marriage from
b of an animal : to perform actions in order to attract for mating <a male bird courting a female>
3
a : to seek to attract (as by solicitous attention or offers of advantages) <college teams courting high school basketball stars>
b : to seek an alliance with
1
: to engage in social activities leading to engagement and marriage
2
of an animal : to engage in activity leading to mating
Synonyms ask (for), flirt (with), invite, woo, look for, go steady, keep company, make love
I have more questions:
1. Does anyone, anywhere have any scripture whatsoever regarding either courting or dating?
Not a book/link reference written by someone we don't know, but actual scriptural references showing that this is somehow more godly than dating someone with the intent of getting to know that person for the purpose of possible marriage while abstaining from sex?
Anyone? Anyone? Or are we going to turn this into another merry-go-round thread where people argue semantics and opinions?
2. What does the courting vs dating debate have to do with whether or not Christians can court/date and not have sex? Are you saying that if you choose to call it dating rather than courting you are somehow obligated to have sex?
I
Hi Jullianna,
Yes, that's what I said that it is wise for a believer to get to know someone before they marry them. There is no where in the bible that says getting to know your future husband/wife before marrying them is wrong.
I just said that if God wants it to happen for two people to marry without knowing each other, then definitely God can do it cuz God is capable of doing absolutely anything. So for example, look at Isaac and Rebekah. How they got married when they didn't know each other at all, although they were related. Their story shows God's sovereign hands because also at that time the woman did not have the right to make a decision about her own marriage. Yet, Rebekah did. However, we have to remember that God does NOT work randomly. I mean Isaac and Rebekah's circumstances were different.
Your questions 2 and 3, you're already assuming that courting or dating is evil, and so, you're asking how would they cherish and respect each other when they don't know each other. These are valid questions. But I guess you've got your answer now that Courting or dating is NOT evil.
Yes, that's what I said that it is wise for a believer to get to know someone before they marry them. There is no where in the bible that says getting to know your future husband/wife before marrying them is wrong.
I just said that if God wants it to happen for two people to marry without knowing each other, then definitely God can do it cuz God is capable of doing absolutely anything. So for example, look at Isaac and Rebekah. How they got married when they didn't know each other at all, although they were related. Their story shows God's sovereign hands because also at that time the woman did not have the right to make a decision about her own marriage. Yet, Rebekah did. However, we have to remember that God does NOT work randomly. I mean Isaac and Rebekah's circumstances were different.
Your questions 2 and 3, you're already assuming that courting or dating is evil, and so, you're asking how would they cherish and respect each other when they don't know each other. These are valid questions. But I guess you've got your answer now that Courting or dating is NOT evil.