Do you support female pastors?

[mustaphadrink]

Matthew 9:37-38
pastor-->preach gospel-->people hear gospel-->people come to Christ-->souls harvested.

Sorry, but that is wishful speaking. ATM, only 1% of churches in the USA are growing.

Real deal is pastor-->preach gospel-->people do not hear gospel-->people do not come to Christ-->souls not harvested.

 

[mustaphadrink]

Actually preachers and pastors preach....pastors also care for the church members on a personal level. Harvesting souls?

Actually, I would like to see in scripture where it says that. Unlike today's church, The New Testament Church had ministries that were outlined in scripture. They were as follows.....

Elders. These were chosen from amongst the congregation by the congregation, and they were responsible for the administration and spiritual life of the church. Their role was to oversee, teach, correct and shepherd.

Ministries. Apostle, prophet, evangelist, shepherds and teachers. None of these were in leadership of the local church. The apostles and prophets were the leadership of new churches that they were starting and then it was handed over to Elders, not pastors.

Deacons. They were chosen from within the congregation and were responsible for making sure that the widows and orphans were taken care of.

Priesthood of all believers. In meetings everyone had a responsibility to minister the gifts of the spirit to build up the body because it says "each one has..." The platform ministry of a select few was unknown.

The only people who preached were the evangelists and they preached to the unbeliever...outside of meetings of the church.

 

[phil112]

To address the question the OP posed: If you believe in Pauls authority then a woman has no place behind the pulpit (preaching).
It astounds me that so many people pretend Pauls preaching is hard to understand. Paul wrote to "shew" the mystery to us. The problem is that Paul preached something that people don't really want to hear, so they pretend ignorance.

 

[mustaphadrink]

ANY PERSON MAN OR WOMAN JEW OR PURPLE CAN BE INSPIRED BY GOD! Did you hear it that time? Show me one scripture that provides where anyone cannot have the spirit of God if he chooses to give it to them.

I am sorry jag but your comment is a red herring as we are not discussing whether people can have the Spirit of God. The topic is "Do you support female pastor's."

 

[mustaphadrink]

...With reference to 1titus 2:11-13 which says (NKJV) 'let a woman learn in silence with all submission. And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man but to be silent... (some one quoted that)

I am a preacher (cause I preach the word) and have spoken in fellowships and unions. I was the secretary then moved to vice chairperson or chairlady for the school fellowship and the school was co-education. My post meant standing in front of the whole school every Sunday fellowship (which was compulsory for everbody else) and running the executive meetings. When my chairperson was absent, I took his position which was usual cause he was usually caught up but that didn't make much of a difference cause we always equally shared duties. et.al.

I do not think you achieve anything by making the scripture fit your experience. Your experience should always fit the scriptures.

 

[mustaphadrink]

We are supposed to ask the Lord to provide His man to pastor the local church.

Actually, there is nothing in scripture to suggest this at all. In the New Testament, no one was asked to 'pastor' a church. You will find that there are 25 verses that speak about leadership and they only talk about three ministries. Apostles, Prophets and Elders. Not once was a pastor mentioned in these verses. If they were in leadership, don't you think that a bit strange they are never referred to in that way?

Having a pastor, called in from another church to lead it is a man made idea and not sanctioned by scripture. Because of that, a female pastor leading the church is not scriptural and a male pastor leading a church is not scriptural.

 

[mustaphadrink]

This book and organization is probably one of the most dangerous offenders when it comes to incorrectly dividing the Word of God, and causing untold damage in the church and families among fundamentalist and conservative Christians.

I am not too keen on John Mac Arthur but I would not reject a book written by 22 authors because there was one I didn't like especially when most of them are Professors or PhDs. And especially when John Piper has only written 1 chapter, co-authored with Wayne Gruden.

And I would certainly not reject a book because I didn't like one sentence. In fact I have download the book because I like to get my teeth into real meat.

Your comments would suggest your mind is already made up and alternative ideas will not be countenanced. When one only knows what they want to know, it is very difficult to rightly divide the word of truth.

 

[mustaphadrink]

To address the question the OP posed: If you believe in Pauls authority then a woman has no place behind the pulpit (preaching)..

If you believe in the authority of scripture, neither men or women have any place behind a pulpit as they didn't have pulpits in the New Testament Church.

 

[phil112]

If you believe in the authority of scripture, neither men or women have any place behind a pulpit as they didn't have pulpits in the New Testament Church.

If you are being humorous, an emoticon would help point that out to a newbie like me.

If you aren't, clearly I said that as a figure of speech, so why would you feel it necessary to rag on me?

 

[mustaphadrink]

Like i said, if there is no men obviously a women will preach. The "ideal" is for a man to though. We can't just ignore God's word though. And you can't just say "the holy spirit did it" to everything. In that case the holy spirit told me women shouldn't teach in the church. Does that mean it is true? No. God's word is what means it is true.

Tucksma, you have made some very good contributions to this subject and the fact that you are only 17 makes them all the more interesting. I wish I was as perceptive as you when I was 17.

Can I suggest that rather than focusing on the fact that woman can preach if there is no man, we try and come to terms with the fact that....

Only evangelists preach and not in the church.

If we put into place biblical ministries as opposed to positions, there will always be men in ministry where men are called for.

Pastors were not chosen to lead churches in the New Testament Church.

Feminist ideas have invaded the church because we have created a vacuum by ignoring God's pattern for leadership.

Pulpits were unknown in the New Testament Church so claiming authority for women (or men) to be given the pulpit ministry is wrong.

I could add a lot more but that will suffice for now.

 

[mustaphadrink]

If you are being humorous, an emoticon would help point that out to a newbie like me.

If you aren't, clearly I said that as a figure of speech, so why would you feel it necessary to rag on me?

As I am autistic, I don't have the ability to read between the lines.

 

[phil112]

As I am autistic, I don't have the ability to read between the lines.

Point taken.

 

[tucksma]

Tucksma, you have made some very good contributions to this subject and the fact that you are only 17 makes them all the more interesting. I wish I was as perceptive as you when I was 17.

Can I suggest that rather than focusing on the fact that woman can preach if there is no man, we try and come to terms with the fact that....

Only evangelists preach and not in the church.

If we put into place biblical ministries as opposed to positions, there will always be men in ministry where men are called for.

Pastors were not chosen to lead churches in the New Testament Church.

Feminist ideas have invaded the church because we have created a vacuum by ignoring God's pattern for leadership.

Pulpits were unknown in the New Testament Church so claiming authority for women (or men) to be given the pulpit ministry is wrong.

I could add a lot more but that will suffice for now.

My faith actually doesn't have a pastor either. We have "speakers". Basically we have a list of like 10 people (there is no limit, that is just what is there now) of people who speak on sunday and exhort. I am simply using the terminology of pastor because that is what is on this thread. Going by my faith the question would be "Should women lead in the church" or "should women exhort". The answer is still no though.

 

[Yet]

1Cor. 12 and 14 and Romans 12. Every member ministered with their God given function. They gathered together to 'edify one another', not a 'pastor' edifying everyone else as they sit silent. There is no preaching going on. No 40 min. sermons. Preaching is witnessing to the lost.
So who gets the salary if all are ministering? None. So what do we do with all the tithe money? There is no tithing under the new covenant. So how do we finance our building. We don't. We meet in homes as the first believers did. So how do we fit 200 people into one house? We don't. 3 families at the most per home. But why? So each member can be a participant in that gathering according to 1 Cor. 12 and 14 and Romans 12.
But, but whose gonna want to change and make this happen? Probably nobody, a handful if any. But why? some reasons. Some are to lazy. Others are blind and cannot see clear scripture on this. And the few at the top have to much to lose.

 

[tucksma]

1Cor. 12 and 14 and Romans 12. Every member ministered with their God given function. They gathered together to 'edify one another', not a 'pastor' edifying everyone else as they sit silent. There is no preaching going on. No 40 min. sermons. Preaching is witnessing to the lost.
So who gets the salary if all are ministering? None. So what do we do with all the tithe money? There is no tithing under the new covenant. So how do we finance our building. We don't. We meet in homes as the first believers did. So how do we fit 200 people into one house? We don't. 3 families at the most per home. But why? So each member can be a participant in that gathering according to 1 Cor. 12 and 14 and Romans 12.
But, but whose gonna want to change and make this happen? Probably nobody, a handful if any. But why? some reasons. Some are to lazy. Others are blind and cannot see clear scripture on this. And the few at the top have to much to lose.

I disagree with some points. Exhorting is a very good thing. It strengthens members for the week to come and reminds them of Jesus Christ!

I agree there shouldn't be one single pastor though. Tithing also should be done away with. If you can support a building then do so, if not then yes do the houses. Some of the stuff you said isn't necessary, but isn't bad.

 

[mustaphadrink]

Here is a little story for you. I was asked to start a fellowship for some Baptists who were seeking the baptism of the Holy Spirit. I am not gifted as a shepherd (pastor if you want the Latin word), my ministry was teaching.

We ended up meeting together for three years. No one was appointed to anything because we operated with the gifts of the Spirit in the meetings so we let him make the decisions as to who should do what.

As time went by it became obvious that one of the men had a shepherding ministry by what he did. He didn't ask if he could do it. He was not given any title. He was not paid any money, but it was undeniable he was a shepherd. When situations arose, he always stepped in and....shepherded.

We had another brother who was obviously a Deacon as he was very good at getting things done. Whenever anything of a practical nature was required, I knew I only had to ask him and I could forget about it.

Our experience was when you let the Holy Spirit anoint people with the ministry of HIS choice you don't have to ordain, pay, wonder, train or trial as the Holy Spirit always makes the right choice and it is obvious by what a person does.

 

[just-me]

Why is it so hard to succumb to the truth written in the Bible? How much logic does it take to want order in the church the way Paul ministered? Why the question in the first place? Do people want something different than what has been written, or is it too hard to understand? I question why this was brought up in the first place. The only thing I can come up with is that some want God to change His mind and follow our desires instead of His for our own good.

 

[DragonSlayer]

About the Scriptures, spirits of deception and confusion can try and twist
what they want through wolves in sheep's clothing and temporary errant sheep,
but in the end, the Alpha and the Omega will always have the last Word :

The Eternal Truth !

 

[mpaper345]

A woman can sure teach and preach the Gospel because all Christians have to reach the world for Christ regardless of sex.Woman can teach men who know not God and the truth.

But the Bible does say that a woman should not usurp authority above a man,but that must mean when people congregate to worship the Lord and listen to His word that the men should lead that.

Not that a man is greater than a woman except for the flesh.The Bible says that in the Lord a man and a woman is equal and that is because the only thing that separates a man and a woman is the flesh,but the spirit and soul are the same,and the saints will put off the flesh and have glorified bodies.

So a woman can teach people that know not God and the truth whether man or woman,but when at Church where people meet to worship God and hear His word the man should lead the congregation.

This is so things run smoothly without problem.God has an authority structure on earth so things run smoothly without people fighting over who is in charge.Just like other organizations in the world they have an authority structure.

God is the head of Christ,and Christ is the head of man,and man is the head of a woman,and women are head of the angels if they are in the truth,and that is because the saints will have a higher position in heaven than that of the angels.

Which in the Lord a man and a woman are equal but on earth God has to have an authority structure so things run smoothly.

This presents fighting among men and women over who should be in charge which can be a hinderance to the operation of God on earth.

In heaven a man and a woman are equal meaning neither has authority over the other.

Of course this applies to the kingdom of God in which God put man in the responsible role of leading according to God's ways and not His own ways which a man is actually the servant of the woman like Christ is the servant of humanity.

 

[Simiel]

It doesn't matter who teaches as long as its the Word of God. This sound like the uncircumcised and circumcised debate. Does it really matter. Is your mind still carnal that you still judge from outer appearance. Or is it the heart that shows what fruit they bear? Man or Woman I support both

Paul confronted Peter. I would have confronted Paul on this matter... We are equal