mystery is the holy spirit... just as in Jesus days, just how it is now, the natural man cannot understand the or receive the things of God, it's an exact shadow of those things in the times we living now, they can't him a devil and hated him.. all because they knew not what he was saying neither can they know, can i ask you a question? what do you understand that i'm trying to tell you, in other words... in the sight of your eyes what am i telling you? i realize i never asked this question
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L
I like amill. I also like disp premill (although I still lean toward either mid or post trib rapture)
preterism has some really good points, but I don't believe that just because a prophecy has been fulfilled once (or twice in the case of the abomination of desolation) that it can't be fulfilled again in the future in a more final way.
preterism has some really good points, but I don't believe that just because a prophecy has been fulfilled once (or twice in the case of the abomination of desolation) that it can't be fulfilled again in the future in a more final way.
I want you to know LT, I dont dislike you, but I believe we have to visit certain principles concerning this issue, so please work with me here.
Well a mans conscious is not his judge, we will not be judged by our conscious.
Romans 2:12 "For as many as have sinned without the Law, will also perish without the Law, and as many as have sinned in the Law, will be judged by the Law."
Mattithyah 16:27, “For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His Malakim; and then He will reward every man according to his works.”
Next by the mouth of Yahweh the Sabbath is the 7th day, any other day and it is not the Sabbath, and one is either calling that day set apart on their own authority or another mans authority. We followers of Yahweh and Yahshua submit to their authority only and do not rely on our or another mans authority.
The changing of appointed times is exactly what a man of pure evil does:
Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against Yahweh, and will wear out; mentally attack to cause to fall away, the saints of Yahweh, and think to change times and Laws..."
"Times" is word # 2166 "ZEMAN" - Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar - 1) a set time, time, season
This part is written in Aramaic, zeman is the word for word equivalent of Hebrew mowed or moadim. Appointed times. All through Scripture Sabbaths are called moadim.
Please reply to me on this matter.
SO why would there be a prophecy about a evil man changing these things if they were to be properly changed anyway?
Well a mans conscious is not his judge, we will not be judged by our conscious.
Romans 2:12 "For as many as have sinned without the Law, will also perish without the Law, and as many as have sinned in the Law, will be judged by the Law."
Mattithyah 16:27, “For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His Malakim; and then He will reward every man according to his works.”
Next by the mouth of Yahweh the Sabbath is the 7th day, any other day and it is not the Sabbath, and one is either calling that day set apart on their own authority or another mans authority. We followers of Yahweh and Yahshua submit to their authority only and do not rely on our or another mans authority.
The changing of appointed times is exactly what a man of pure evil does:
Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against Yahweh, and will wear out; mentally attack to cause to fall away, the saints of Yahweh, and think to change times and Laws..."
"Times" is word # 2166 "ZEMAN" - Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar - 1) a set time, time, season
This part is written in Aramaic, zeman is the word for word equivalent of Hebrew mowed or moadim. Appointed times. All through Scripture Sabbaths are called moadim.
Please reply to me on this matter.
SO why would there be a prophecy about a evil man changing these things if they were to be properly changed anyway?
B
The gospel of the Kingdom will not be preached until the church is taken out of the way preceded by a seven year tribulation period prior to the coming of the Kingdom age which begins at the second coming of Christ. The gospel of the coming Kingdom will be preached among the kingdoms of the nations at the time of great tribulation coming upon the earth with the blood of the Lamb making atonement for sin for those who believe. The mark of the beast will be designed to separate those who believe upon the coming Kingdom with Messiah as king and those who remain in unbelief as children of disobedience. God will supernaturally be their provision who refuse to take the mark. Many warnings will come from the two candlesticks that are sent to preach for 42 months.
The children of Israel will be raised up during this time to preach this gospel message to the masses. The coming of the Messiah will consummate this message and judgment of the nations followed by a 1000 year reign of Christ as the king who will reign on the throne of David. The church was never commissioned to preach the gospel of the Kingdom, only the gospel of Jesus Christ and him crucified. The church is not ignorant of the Kingdom nor the future aspect of that Kingdom when it comes to reign and rule over all the nations of the earth but will have already been called to come up hither having no part in that time of great tribulation. It is the duty of Israel and the Jews to preach the Kingdom message and not the church or the Gentiles.
The children of Israel will be raised up during this time to preach this gospel message to the masses. The coming of the Messiah will consummate this message and judgment of the nations followed by a 1000 year reign of Christ as the king who will reign on the throne of David. The church was never commissioned to preach the gospel of the Kingdom, only the gospel of Jesus Christ and him crucified. The church is not ignorant of the Kingdom nor the future aspect of that Kingdom when it comes to reign and rule over all the nations of the earth but will have already been called to come up hither having no part in that time of great tribulation. It is the duty of Israel and the Jews to preach the Kingdom message and not the church or the Gentiles.
This is a summary of what is the truth.
The old covenant testament( 10 commandments ) was never meant for the gentiles( unbelievers, everyone other than Jews ) we were always the lawless bunch by nature because everyone of us is born in Sin, how could a person who is born in iniquity ( transgress against the commandments by nature can't help it ) to follow that which was never intended for us, but God's very own people rejected him true unbelief so what did he do? God doesn't choose anyone according to our purpose in works or whatever good works we claim to do he calls us according to his will we were always the wild bunch who only got a chance because of israel unbelief but you also shall be cut off because of some of your unbelief to receive christ... it's a free gift take it while the offer stands [h=3]Romans 11:17-24[/h]King James Version (KJV)
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
my God... you see God's grace? to take sinners contrary to his nature and still draft them in by the holy spirit. you see.. that is why we have to born again, to have a new nature and because of this nature you know right from wrong naturally, because it is not a nature of sin or of this earth it's a heavenly nature only received by the holy spirit..., notice God has purposely blinded israel eyes until all that is destined to receive the holy spirit to come in, then he will deal with them again and reveal to them the truth of the gospel, take the warning... no flesh will be saved after the fullness of the gentiles is in make sure your on the right path...separate yourselves from creeds and seek God diligently if you do i'm sure you will receive a calling, and that's the truth.
The old covenant testament( 10 commandments ) was never meant for the gentiles( unbelievers, everyone other than Jews ) we were always the lawless bunch by nature because everyone of us is born in Sin, how could a person who is born in iniquity ( transgress against the commandments by nature can't help it ) to follow that which was never intended for us, but God's very own people rejected him true unbelief so what did he do? God doesn't choose anyone according to our purpose in works or whatever good works we claim to do he calls us according to his will we were always the wild bunch who only got a chance because of israel unbelief but you also shall be cut off because of some of your unbelief to receive christ... it's a free gift take it while the offer stands [h=3]Romans 11:17-24[/h]King James Version (KJV)
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
my God... you see God's grace? to take sinners contrary to his nature and still draft them in by the holy spirit. you see.. that is why we have to born again, to have a new nature and because of this nature you know right from wrong naturally, because it is not a nature of sin or of this earth it's a heavenly nature only received by the holy spirit..., notice God has purposely blinded israel eyes until all that is destined to receive the holy spirit to come in, then he will deal with them again and reveal to them the truth of the gospel, take the warning... no flesh will be saved after the fullness of the gentiles is in make sure your on the right path...separate yourselves from creeds and seek God diligently if you do i'm sure you will receive a calling, and that's the truth.
oh my sister age has nothing to do with this, just the holy spirit, there is 10 year olds even 5 year olds fulled with the holy spirit in puerto rico that song leads and does amazing things in the churches, it's one truth one spirit, who receives the spirit receive the truth and knowledge of the spirit, it is the same spirit that was in christ, within you, so the spirit confirms what is the truth from within the believer
L
B
Samoa time shift creates Sabbath rift - National - NZ Herald News
I saw this link and thought I wonder what people on both sides of the fence think of this regarding the day to worship. The people in Samoa had to miss a day so now are not sure whether to worship on Sunday or Saturday caused an issue with the SDA's in Samoa. Be interesting to see what everyone thinks about this one as the discussions and arguments continue in here regarding the Sabbath.
I saw this link and thought I wonder what people on both sides of the fence think of this regarding the day to worship. The people in Samoa had to miss a day so now are not sure whether to worship on Sunday or Saturday caused an issue with the SDA's in Samoa. Be interesting to see what everyone thinks about this one as the discussions and arguments continue in here regarding the Sabbath.
i've been told what doctrine do you come from? what denomination you apart of? who teached you that? not a single person but God, that is the mystery of God and it is an immediate gift received when someone receives the holy spirit, they were amazed at the knowledge of Jesus also they never heard that before, told you all before.. i was never a christian grew up in a christian home was never really apart of it, went into the world and live the lust of the world.. but God called and i anwsered.. and just like that understanding came, i can only tell you from my experience and from what i see[h=3]Mark 6:2[/h]King James Version (KJV)
2 And when the sabbath day was come, he began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing him were astonished, saying, From whence hath this man these things? and what wisdom is this which is given unto him, that even such mighty works are wrought by his hands?
2 And when the sabbath day was come, he began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing him were astonished, saying, From whence hath this man these things? and what wisdom is this which is given unto him, that even such mighty works are wrought by his hands?
I'll let Hizikyah speak for himself concerning preterism (I know where he stands though), but the man of sin had a type, Antiochus IV Epiphanes (Epidimes). In 168BC he stopped the daily sacrifice, defiled the altar with a swine and erected a statue of Jupiter Olympus in the Holy Place. This is the AoD Christ was referring to in this...
Mat 24:15 "Therefore when you see the 'ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand),
But notice, it it speaking to a future time. That future time is the end of the age prior to His return...
Mat 24:3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?"
Notice what they ask? When would all this occur and specifically, what would be the sign of His coming and the end of the age.
Mat 24:15 "Therefore when you see the 'ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand),
But notice, it it speaking to a future time. That future time is the end of the age prior to His return...
Mat 24:3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?"
Notice what they ask? When would all this occur and specifically, what would be the sign of His coming and the end of the age.
I am not schooled on the names for second coming views.
SO I believe there is THE anti-Messiah and others that have the same character but are not THE actual end time anti-Messiah:
1 Yahchanan (John) 2:18, "Little children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Anti- Messiah will come, even now there are many Anti-Messiahs; by this we know that this is the last hour."
and to be honest, the pharisees changed the moadim before Constantine did, I believe they are both anti-Messiah, yet neither are THE ANTI-MESSIAH.
I do point out Constantine because, while there are many, he is the singular human most responsible for the largest amout of false and pagan worship being painted into modern religion. 50 million to 1 billion people were killed post-Messiah by the catholic church for owning Scripture, not eating pork, keeping 7th day Sabbath, not conforming, etc, etc,
All the popes and false teachers of many religions have simply carried these traditions on.
SO I believe there is THE anti-Messiah and others that have the same character but are not THE actual end time anti-Messiah:
1 Yahchanan (John) 2:18, "Little children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Anti- Messiah will come, even now there are many Anti-Messiahs; by this we know that this is the last hour."
and to be honest, the pharisees changed the moadim before Constantine did, I believe they are both anti-Messiah, yet neither are THE ANTI-MESSIAH.
I do point out Constantine because, while there are many, he is the singular human most responsible for the largest amout of false and pagan worship being painted into modern religion. 50 million to 1 billion people were killed post-Messiah by the catholic church for owning Scripture, not eating pork, keeping 7th day Sabbath, not conforming, etc, etc,
All the popes and false teachers of many religions have simply carried these traditions on.
L
Yes, evil men certainly have entered the Church over the years.
I suppose the only question is about how hard we should fight back, and if we should, then in what way?
I have been looking into something else:
The example of 'pressing forward regardless' is the same image of an ambulance. It speeds on with a mission in mind. It can break the traffic laws (traffic lights, speed limit, passing lanes) without fear of punishment, because it's mission is more important than the law: saving lives! (in our case, evangelism)
Is this part of the freedom we have in Christ? Or is this a poor image of 'pressing on toward the goal'.
I suppose the only question is about how hard we should fight back, and if we should, then in what way?
I have been looking into something else:
The example of 'pressing forward regardless' is the same image of an ambulance. It speeds on with a mission in mind. It can break the traffic laws (traffic lights, speed limit, passing lanes) without fear of punishment, because it's mission is more important than the law: saving lives! (in our case, evangelism)
Is this part of the freedom we have in Christ? Or is this a poor image of 'pressing on toward the goal'.
well it's not what you believe it's what the world of God said,
[h=3]Matthew 25[/h]King James Version (KJV)
25 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
what door was shut? the door meaning that's the end of the gentile age no one else will be saved because the fullness of the gentiles is in and the bridegroom comes to take his bride away, not a single non believer will be able to witness this event
[h=3]1 Thessalonians 4:13-17[/h]King James Version (KJV)
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
don't think i could get it any plainer tried my best... read it slowly and carefully so you can see it or maybe understand it, asleep means those who passed away on the earth but was born again before they died, notice what is happening here, those that remain UNTO the day the lord has come, did you notice unto? i really tried my best to make it plain and visible
[h=3]Matthew 25[/h]King James Version (KJV)
25 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
what door was shut? the door meaning that's the end of the gentile age no one else will be saved because the fullness of the gentiles is in and the bridegroom comes to take his bride away, not a single non believer will be able to witness this event
[h=3]1 Thessalonians 4:13-17[/h]King James Version (KJV)
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
don't think i could get it any plainer tried my best... read it slowly and carefully so you can see it or maybe understand it, asleep means those who passed away on the earth but was born again before they died, notice what is happening here, those that remain UNTO the day the lord has come, did you notice unto? i really tried my best to make it plain and visible
Well first I want to say I believe we each have a different role in the body of Messiah, so what is the job for one is not necessarily the job for all.
I do believe 100% that any man made law of any origin, if it is in opposition to Yahweh and His Law is 100% without a question cast aside, Daniyl is a great example of this.
Have you read Maccabees? There is a reason it was taken out, a "bow down a lick the boots of the beast" is taught and Maccabees is the exact opposite. There is something called "clergy response team" in the USA that are paid pastors, paid by the US govt and are told to literally preach govt submission and disarmament at the whim of the beast.
If one is a follower of Messiah they know this:
Luke 22:36, "Then He said to them: But now, he who has a purse, let him take it, and the same with his scrip; and G3he that has no sword, let him sell his cloak, and buy one."
yet this is also written:
Mattithyah 26:52, "Then Yahshua said to him: Put your sword back into its place: for all those live by the sword will die by the sword."
I think this balancing is an exact microcosm of my point, self defense and all thing INSIDE the will of Yahweh are right. Owning a sword is not unlawful, breaking man made laws in opposition to Yahweh are not unlawful, yet living by the sword, using them as a way to wage war on mans whim, to take or to conquer is against Yahweh and His Law.
NOW....there is another part, Shaul says basically that we are to give no excuse for people to call us evil.
If there is a law that is not in piston to Yahweh I dont think we should go out of our way to break it on purpose as to give the heathen an excuse to call us evil, "those so called God people are hypocrites!" Because they are laying in wait to take hold of just such a thing, as an excuse to justify themselves and their beliefs, and condemn us and the Creator, in thier minds of course.
SO in a nutshell..... im not against you view, I just think there are a few things in the small print that must be considered in this matter, JUST IMO
Also I ask for your reply on the moadim matter, please?
I do believe 100% that any man made law of any origin, if it is in opposition to Yahweh and His Law is 100% without a question cast aside, Daniyl is a great example of this.
Have you read Maccabees? There is a reason it was taken out, a "bow down a lick the boots of the beast" is taught and Maccabees is the exact opposite. There is something called "clergy response team" in the USA that are paid pastors, paid by the US govt and are told to literally preach govt submission and disarmament at the whim of the beast.
If one is a follower of Messiah they know this:
Luke 22:36, "Then He said to them: But now, he who has a purse, let him take it, and the same with his scrip; and G3he that has no sword, let him sell his cloak, and buy one."
yet this is also written:
Mattithyah 26:52, "Then Yahshua said to him: Put your sword back into its place: for all those live by the sword will die by the sword."
I think this balancing is an exact microcosm of my point, self defense and all thing INSIDE the will of Yahweh are right. Owning a sword is not unlawful, breaking man made laws in opposition to Yahweh are not unlawful, yet living by the sword, using them as a way to wage war on mans whim, to take or to conquer is against Yahweh and His Law.
NOW....there is another part, Shaul says basically that we are to give no excuse for people to call us evil.
If there is a law that is not in piston to Yahweh I dont think we should go out of our way to break it on purpose as to give the heathen an excuse to call us evil, "those so called God people are hypocrites!" Because they are laying in wait to take hold of just such a thing, as an excuse to justify themselves and their beliefs, and condemn us and the Creator, in thier minds of course.
SO in a nutshell..... im not against you view, I just think there are a few things in the small print that must be considered in this matter, JUST IMO
Also I ask for your reply on the moadim matter, please?