Hope Deferred

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zaoman32

Guest
#1
ok, I posted this in the "streams" thread, but in order to avoid the wrath of that particular OP by getting her thread off track, I'm just making a new thread to get some insight.

So...I've seen a lot of posts regarding hope recently and how vital it is to our lives, here's my question, what good is hope if there's nothing to fulfill it? I don't want the cheesy "Jesus died for you blah blah blah" christiany answer. If you're hoping for better, and God shows you where to go, and it's not delivered, what good has that hope done for you?

I'm going to be honest with you guys. I hate being here.

Please, don't just start spewing bible verses without actually praying either, you're just making this whole thing look like a joke.
 

Pipp

Majestic Llamacorn
Sep 17, 2013
5,539
2,713
113
Georgia
#2
Hope is not an easy thing sometimes at all.... I've had my hopes shattered a time or two and sometimes its so easy to feel like throwing in the towel . I wish I had a good answer for you brother , but I dont. I've wondered myself if I've been hoping in vain for some things. All I know to do is keep having faith something good will come from it. Romans 8:28. Im sincerely praying for you.
 
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persNickety

Guest
#3
Just a question: how did you know that God showed you where to go? Not judging, just curious cus I get confused with that as well.

ps no worries about the wrath. Arwen83 is dead and gone XD
 
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persNickety

Guest
#4
P.s.s nice to see ya back on here
 
L

Lovingpure7

Guest
#5
Hope is not an easy thing sometimes at all.... I've had my hopes shattered a time or two and sometimes its so easy to feel like throwing in the towel . I wish I had a good answer for you brother , but I dont. I've wondered myself if I've been hoping in vain for some things. All I know to do is keep having faith something good will come from it. Romans 8:28. Im sincerely praying for you.

Dear Pip.... couple Romans 8:28 with Jeremiah 29:11 and you have a powerful combination ..Pastor Bill:D
 

lil_christian

Senior Member
Mar 14, 2010
7,489
73
48
27
#6
ok, I posted this in the "streams" thread, but in order to avoid the wrath of that particular OP by getting her thread off track, I'm just making a new thread to get some insight.

So...I've seen a lot of posts regarding hope recently and how vital it is to our lives, here's my question, what good is hope if there's nothing to fulfill it? I don't want the cheesy "Jesus died for you blah blah blah" christiany answer. If you're hoping for better, and God shows you where to go, and it's not delivered, what good has that hope done for you?

I'm going to be honest with you guys. I hate being here.

Please, don't just start spewing bible verses without actually praying either, you're just making this whole thing look like a joke.



I am going to sound a bit Christiany here...but. I think it's something that needs to be said.


When we gave our lives to Christ, we chose to fight for Him. We went on one side of the battlefield, to another. Unfortunately, this means that in our lives, we can get attacked in different areas. Things we can control, and things we can't. We get tempted. The things we love in life get taken away. Plans get diverted. Hopes and dreams get crushed.


We question, we doubt, we try to pray but it feels like no one's listening. So we question and doubt some more.


Honestly, with all the posts I've seen on here lately, I'm not convinced that Christians on here AREN'T being attacked with the spirit of depression and hopelessness.

Sometimes, we have to wander the desert a little before we get to the oasis. No, it's not fun. It sucks. It really does.

But.


We have to hold on to the promises of God. We HAVE to keep going. Even when it hurts to even simply exist.


You can't separate God and hope. Because He IS hope. Sure, we can look for it elsewhere. But eventually everything goes away. Everything else fails.
 

mystdancer50

Senior Member
Feb 26, 2012
2,522
50
48
#7
All of my hope exists solely in Christ. I never really thought about it until I read this thread. Regardless of what occurs in my life, regardless of how many things go right and how many go wrong, no matter how many times I fail and how many times I succeed, no matter if I feel loved or not, if I'm rejected or accepted, if it rains or the sun shines, regardless of it all, the hope I hold to is Christ. Truly, nothing else matters. I don't mean it to sound super-spiritual, but once you grasp that truth, then you can understand how some that have nothing have more joy than those of us that have so very much.

I hope in who He is, what He has promised me...simply, no matter what I'm given and what I'm denied in this life, if I have Him, I have hope. He is truly the reason that I want to go to Heaven at all. I think about the moment when He will greet me when I arrive there and how He will smile radiantly at me and say, "Well done, Julie. Well done, My love." Nothing else means more to me than to see Him face-to-face, hear those words, and spend eternity with Him.

I want to say thank you for this thread. For the first time in so very long, I actually felt something again when I considered Jesus Christ and how much He means to me. :)
 

rachelsedge

Senior Member
Oct 15, 2012
3,659
81
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#8
I think there's two different forms of hope. One is the eternal hope in Jesus Christ, which I know isn't the answer you're looking for, and not me either because everyone here who proclaims Christ should already know that. Though, it is odd that it's called "hope" even in that sense because in "hope" typically means you aren't 100% sure...you only hope.

The second form of hope is the not-in-Christ type, which is what makes the heart sick, even when that hope was a godly hope. There are things I hoped for, and then got, and then it crashed and burned and made me wonder whether it was worth hoping for in the first place, or what the point was. Or the hope that I one day get married. What if I don't? What's the point of having hope if it doesn't come to pass? So then I say, "I just won't hope for it" but that sounds pessimistic. And maybe it is; maybe I am.

But really, what is the point of hope? Does it change things? Does it motivate? It seems that typically, when we "hope", it is for something out of our control. I think it's natural to hope, don't get me wrong. "I hope I get that job." "I hope I get married." "I hope my kid doesn't get hurt while she's at her friend's house." "I hope I don't fall on this ice." It just seems...pointless now that I think about it?

Well, I've talked myself in a circle and don't know what I'm getting at anymore. :-/
 

DuchessAimee

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2011
3,922
129
63
#9
There's a difference between hope and expectation. It's the expectation that does us in. We are to expect God to do things, yes. But we expect all the bells and whistles. Sometimes those extras aren't for us. Sometimes it's just not the will of God.


As for being led somewhere and not getting what you thought. I absolutely get that! However, there is one thing I know for sure. As God guides me down the path he's set out for me, the point is to become more Christ like. And personally, the only way I seem to conform to his image is via pain and reshaping. I wish I could tell you it's sunshine and roses, but it's not always. Most of the time it's blood, sweat, and tears. Lots of tears. But I've willing told the Potter that I want to be broken and remade. The shape I've made myself into is awful, and honestly, I need to be broken, stomped on, turned into dust, and made back into clay kind of a lot. My favorite scripture in the New Testament is Romans 5:1-5. It says...




5 Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we boast in the hope of the glory of God. 3 Not only so, but we also glory in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; 4 perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5 And hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us.
 

rachelsedge

Senior Member
Oct 15, 2012
3,659
81
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#10
There's a difference between hope and expectation. It's the expectation that does us in.
I like your post and agree with most of it but the part above. There are things I don't expect, but hope for. I don't expect to get married, but I hope for it. Does that mean that deep down I expect to? Maybe, but initially I would consider it a hope.

Hopefully (pun..eh, eh??) that makes sense. :)
 
Feb 18, 2013
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#11
I have hope and faith because I have seen the good that the Lord has done.

I can place my hope in Christ not just because it's the Christian thing to do.. but because when I really stop and think about it, it is SO easy to see countless fulfilled promises that God has made to His people, whether it be in the Bible, in the lives of my friends, or in my own life.

I may not have a clue about what He has planned for my future, but I know His plans are good (Jeremiah 29:11), and I know He has worked things out for my good in the past (Romans 8:28) and will continue to do so in the future. I also have to trust that He will work things out according to HIS plans, not mine. So there will be moments when I feel helpless, but I just have to trust that He knows what He's doing.

I admit, it's easy to forget His goodness and love and faithfulness when we're in the depths of the valley. I also know that there are many here who have been through far greater trials and periods of despair than I have, so I don't claim to be an expert on trusting God. All I know is it's a little easier to have hope when I cling to His promises.

I've gotten in the habit lately of journaling moments of God's goodness, faithfulness, and provision in my life. When I feel at my lowest, sometimes I flip through those pages and it's like He's reminding me that He loves me and that He's going to take care of me.

I'm sorry if that sounds too Christian-y, Zao. It all came from my heart, though. :) I am praying for you. Thank you for this thread. It was a nice reminder to think about why I can have hope.
 

DuchessAimee

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2011
3,922
129
63
#12
I like your post and agree with most of it but the part above. There are things I don't expect, but hope for. I don't expect to get married, but I hope for it. Does that mean that deep down I expect to? Maybe, but initially I would consider it a hope.

Hopefully (pun..eh, eh??) that makes sense. :)


Hope is better than expectation! :)


When we hope, we are far more protected in Christ. Expectation tends to end up on the fleshly side of our nature. Depending on what we expect, it can be very damaging when we don't get it.
 

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
2,169
473
83
#13
Faith is the evidence of things hoped for...

Hope in the NT is confident expectation. We are confident in our Father is and what He says in His word. Therefore we expect the world to bow to His word.

Hope is the seed-bed of faith. Faith is the evidence of our hope. What do we hope in? We can see our words, actions, and behaviors to see where our hope lies. Out of the heart springs the issues of life. And hope many times is the perception of our heart in regards to ourselves, God, and the impact we + He have on the world.

C.
 

rachelsedge

Senior Member
Oct 15, 2012
3,659
81
48
34
#14
I suppose, in the end, anything hope for besides Christ is going to dissappoint at some point in time.

Which is why we are to be content in Christ no matter what (Philippians 4:11-13). Very easy to say, very hard to do. My heart hopes for things that aren't bad. That last verse, verse 13, talks about having strength in Him through everything. I think it could go to say the same for "hope". We can hope, but when those things don't work out, or even if they do, He is still to be our strength.

I know that was more Christiany than you wanted zao. I so get where you're coming from (as per the first post I made in this thread, which didn't help anything :rolleyes: just my ramblings).
 
Feb 18, 2013
1,294
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#15
I like your ramblings, Rachel. They tend to be more helpful than you give them credit for. :)
 

Fenner

Senior Member
Jan 26, 2013
7,507
111
0
#16
I am going to sound a bit Christiany here...but. I think it's something that needs to be said.


When we gave our lives to Christ, we chose to fight for Him. We went on one side of the battlefield, to another. Unfortunately, this means that in our lives, we can get attacked in different areas. Things we can control, and things we can't. We get tempted. The things we love in life get taken away. Plans get diverted. Hopes and dreams get crushed.


We question, we doubt, we try to pray but it feels like no one's listening. So we question and doubt some more.


Honestly, with all the posts I've seen on here lately, I'm not convinced that Christians on here AREN'T being attacked with the spirit of depression and hopelessness.

Sometimes, we have to wander the desert a little before we get to the oasis. No, it's not fun. It sucks. It really does.

But.


We have to hold on to the promises of God. We HAVE to keep going. Even when it hurts to even simply exist.


You can't separate God and hope. Because He IS hope. Sure, we can look for it elsewhere. But eventually everything goes away. Everything else fails.

Reading this made me feel good, thanks LilChristian.
 
I

iTOREtheSKY

Guest
#17
You know what I feel Z-man,as I posted in yer' blog. Can totally relate to what yer' dealing with in many ways.Been there with the disappointment and feeling like zero answers to prayer.No easy answers...so yeah..I love you bro,and I certainly don't mean that in a stooopid lame conventional cliche' christianease sounding way. Because you know I am soooooooooo not Mr. super spiritual. When I pray for you...I do. Period. You have always blessed me in your posts,even when they aren't all roses & rainbows...I think I might actually find it kinda creepy if they were.
 

rachelsedge

Senior Member
Oct 15, 2012
3,659
81
48
34
#18
I'm not quite sure where to put this as I don't want to derail Zao's thread. But I think it could connect with hope deferred.

I know there are people, Christians, in the world who do not have the emotional, physical, or mental provisions that we do. There are children whose parents do not love them, who have no friends, who are starving, who sleep on the cold ground. There are both females and males who are in the sex trafficking industry who are drugged, used, and abused. They have very few things to be thankful for. Their hope is usually in vain, and there are very few happy moments in their life. They have no guarantee that things will get better, that "God will provide" or take care of them. Many times, it doesn't.

Not in the sense that we tend to think of, at least. Does that mean that God is not providing for them? That God does not love them or care for them? I don't believe so, though if I were in their shoes, I would struggle with believing that. But I know people in those situations who do/did. Somehow, through all of that, they can still see God's hope, even if there is literally no other hope besides.

I'm not saying that to shame those of us who struggle with hope/God but have many things other people don't. I guess what sparked it was Loveneverfail's comment that she sometimes looks back to see how God has provided and cared for her, and that is great, Love I hope you don't think I'm attacking you or calling you out, not at all, because that is GREAT! It just got me thinking that there are some, or many, who cannot do that and yet...they are still called to hope in Christ.

How each of us is called to do that in each of our circumstances is between us and God. I may wrestle with something that someone else has no issue with, and vice versa.

Just thinking out loud. Yet again I don't know where I was going with that.
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
2,837
763
113
#19
The only hope you can have (without anything else supporting that hope) is in Christ like mystdancer50 and others have said, because with everything else hope is not enough.

But to answer your question; no, hope is no good if there’s nothing to fulfill it...because hope is no different than a wish list. Imagine shopping in an online store, and there are several items you’re interested in having – but you don’t have the money and don’t know when you’d ever afford to get them. You add them to your “wish list”. Now this wish list isn’t guaranteeing you’ll get anything, it’s just a list of things you hope to one day receive. But the reality is you may *never* receive them because wishes aren’t real...something else has to happen in order for you to attain the things you want.

Likewise God isn’t a genie who grants wishes (not saying you believe that or implied that; just stating it). And this reality is what you’re noticing when you say, “if you hope for something better...and it’s not delivered”. Well if hope is all you had it’s no different than you adding what you wanted on a wish list only to expect to receive it. Functionally it will never happen. No...hope is not enough when seizing the promises of God. But add “faith” to it like Pipp mentions and Cee explains, and it’s a different thing altogether.

Faith is NOT hope. And it’s unfortunate that these words get interchanged often (I’m guilty of doing it now and again). Faith is not hope. For reference let me just add Hebrews 11:1 and then give you examples of its practical application.

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

This is the KJV version, but other versions use the words: Confidence and Assurance. Notice that from this passage it wouldn’t make sense to understand faith as “the hope of things hoped for”?? So faith is not hope, but the Assurance; Confidence; Substance of the hoped for thing. So what is this passage actually saying? It took months for me to understand it both academically and through experience, but in modern terms it’s saying that “Faith is the receipt of the thing you hope for that you don’t yet have”.

Faith is the “evidence”; it’s the “proof of purchase”.


Going back to the online shopping example; let’s say you came across some extra money and finally can buy one of the things on your wish list. So you purchase it from the online store. (Usually) immediately, you receive a receipt of your purchase by email and/or a thank you screen. That receipt has all of the evidence of your purchase, proving you *rightfully expect* to receive the thing you hope to receive.

The thing you desire is not yet in your possession, you have yet to see it as a reality, but there’s no doubt in your mind that it’s on its way...because you have the evidence. There’s ABSOLUTELY no reason to question whether you may or may not receive the thing you’re waiting for. You KNOW it’s coming, so there’s only anticipation. You have proof something is ALREADY yours, it’s true...it’s just a matter of time until the world catches up with that truth (and delivers to you what’s yours).

We don’t ever think about all of this “truth” going on when we do something as simple as make an online purchase. But this is why we get receipts. Now imagine making a purchase online and not receiving any form of proof of purchase...it’s just money gone from your account. Suddenly there’s room for a nagging fear to fester; “is it coming? Did I just get stiffed? Is the ‘authority’ I just conducted business with trustworthy?”

Without the receipt, you have no lawful proof to receive anything you hope to have.

---

The book of Hebrews is great for explaining all of what faith truly is.

Now while Christians have an expectation of suffering and self-sacrifice (as we must take up our crosses), we also have an inheritance (being co-heirs according to the promise). And while there are rules to what all we can ask for, God said that when you pray for things or have faith in things to DO NOT DOUBT (Matthew 21:21) and believe that you have received [past tense] it (Mark 11:24) and it’ll be yours because it proves God exists (Hebrews 11:6), and that’s how he’s glorified. Both of these are saying the same thing; you must have the proof/receipt of (i.e. “faith in”) what you asked for *before* you get it [this rule isn’t anything new to understand. Like I said we experience it every time we buy something online that needs to be delivered]. Christ already paid for it, but you must prove *you* have the receipt of his purchases.

Of course we must specifically understand what all Christ paid for (and what he didn’t pay for), but even when we do understand; if YOU don’t have the proof of it, you can’t expect to receive anything you hope for. Without proof, don't even look for it because it isn't on it's way.

This is why scripture also says that “without faith it’s IMPOSSIBLE to please God”. No amount of bible study, church attendance, or prayer will matter if you don’t have the “proof” (beforehand) that God will provide the thing you asked him to provide.

[As an aside: this is why it’s unfortunate that those who demand proof of God’s existence before having faith in him will *never* get it...because God demands *faith first* in all things.]

It took Abraham a lifetime to receive his son...years upon years...and that time was God’s way of proving Abraham had his “receipt”. At first, Abraham proved he didn’t possess the receipt (with creating Ishmael), so God made Abraham wait longer...but he finally received what he was promised once his faith/receipt was proven. Then it took MORE faith to believe that even if he killed his son for God (after finally getting him), that somehow God would still honor his promise to have Abraham’s son become a great nation. Only then was his faith rewarded.


*****

I’m sorry for typing so much, but the point must be driven home...because it’s the difference between a branch growing in faith and a branch that’s withering in doubt and soon to be cut off the tree. And I feel the pain of many of God’s people walking around in circles in this wilderness called life, with only a few having the faith to enter into the promise land and defeat their enemies that appear as giants to them. And even though God saved his people from their bondage with the blood of the lamb, he *swore* NONE OF THEM would experience the kingdom he had in store for them because they didn't have faith in him. They didn't have the proof they deserved to have what he wanted to give them, so he let them wander in circles in their wilderness until they all died.

It’s RIGHT THERE...the promise is right in front of you, but we have to have faith in the impossible; we have to have the receipt *before* delivery. We have to cut ourselves off from the waters from Adam (meaning, how most of mankind thinks about life) and cross over the Jordan into it...and once you do, “nothing will be impossible for you” (Matthew 17:20).

I promise to God.
 
J

Jullianna

Guest
#20
I still have hope. I have hope that God will bring good from my mistakes. I have hope that my disappointments are not for nothing. I have hope that I'm making a difference somehow. I have hope that I'm serving as I've been called. I have hope that the patience He is teaching me is not for nothing.

Ecclesiastes 3
3 There is a time for everything,
and a season for every activity under the heavens:
[SUP]2 [/SUP] a time to be born and a time to die,
a time to plant and a time to uproot,
[SUP]3 [/SUP] a time to kill and a time to heal,
a time to tear down and a time to build,
[SUP]4 [/SUP] a time to weep and a time to laugh,
a time to mourn and a time to dance,
[SUP]5 [/SUP] a time to scatter stones and a time to gather them,
a time to embrace and a time to refrain from embracing,
[SUP]6 [/SUP] a time to search and a time to give up,
a time to keep and a time to throw away,
[SUP]7 [/SUP] a time to tear and a time to mend,
a time to be silent and a time to speak,
[SUP]8 [/SUP] a time to love and a time to hate,
a time for war and a time for peace.

Every season I've gone through in my life has been preparation for the next. I hope I'm learning as quickly as I can. I hope I'm changing as willingly as I should. I hope I'm living the life I need to live in order to bring about the things I'd like to see in it. I have hope for big changes. Soon. Very, very soon.