Turning The Grace of God into Lasciviousness

[BradC]

First while I keep the sabbath of the Lord the 7th day I do not keep the ceremonial sabbaths. The word rest in verse 9 is the only place in the Bible it is found and is referring to the 7th day sabbath. There are other types of rest in Christ and the rest to come when He returns but the rest in verse 9 is the 7th day sabbath as shown in my previous post.

What happens if you fail to keep the Sabbath or in some way you desecrate? Do you put yourself under grace when keeping the law of the Sabbath so that if you break it or desecrate it in some way you won't come under the curse or penalty of the law for your transgression? If you keep the law of the Sabbath and you break it, is that a transgression for you? If it is a transgression, then how are you atoned for it, because under the law their was no atonement. You were put to death or cut off from the people. Can you be under the law and under grace at the same time?

 

[Laodicea]

What happens if you fail to keep the Sabbath or in some way you desecrate? Do you put yourself under grace when keeping the law of the Sabbath so that if you break it or desecrate it in some way you won't come under the curse or penalty of the law for your transgression? If you keep the law of the Sabbath and you break it, is that a transgression for you? If it is a transgression, then how are you atoned for it, because under the law their was no atonement. You were put to death or cut off from the people. Can you be under the law and under grace at the same time?

I could ask you the same question about any of the other nine? What if you broke the first commandment? We are saved by grace through faith. We are not saved by our own works. By surrendering to God we become servants of righteousness.

 

[Laodicea]

Would you agree that verse 10 is an explaining continuation of verse 9?

Heb 4:9 Therefore, a sabbatism is left behind for the people of God, 10 seeing that the one having entered into His rest, he also rested from his works, just as God from His own.​

The word rest in verse 9 is a different word to the word rest in verse 10 and must be understood that way.

 

[cfultz3]

The word rest in verse 9 is a different word to the word rest in verse 10 and must be understood that way.

Since there is only one occurrence of "sabbatism" in all of Scripture, then should we not keep it contextual and then expand out to other verses from what we gathered from Hebrews 4?

Can we keep it contextual with Hebrews 4 first?

 

[Laodicea]

Since there is only one occurrence of "sabbatism" in all of Scripture, then should we not keep it contextual and then expand out to other verses from what we gathered from Hebrews 4?

Can we keep it contextual with Hebrews 4 first?

Hebrews 4 mentions different kinds of rest. Rest in Christ. Sabbath rest & the rest to come.

 

[cfultz3]

Would you agree that verse 10 is an explaining continuation of verse 9?

Heb 4:9 Therefore, a sabbatism is left behind for the people of God, 10 seeing that the one having entered into His rest, he also rested from his works, just as God from His own.​

Laodicea,

Please consider the follow.

What if we replace "sabbatism" with "keeping of the Sabbath".

Hebrews 4:9 Therefore, there remains a keeping of the Sabbath for the people of God, 10 seeing that the one having entered into His rest, he also rested from his work, just as God from His own.​

Points to consider:

1) if Sabbath can be defined as a rest from works, then why did the writer include a comparison to God's Sabbath with the inclusion of "also" and "just as"?

2) If v10 starts with an explaining word of "for (seeing that)", then should it not be considered that if it was meant to say, "a keeping of the Sabbath", then God's Sabbath from Creation has became our Sabbath? That is, if Jesus left behind God's Sabbath from His work to be our sabbath, then there is no offer of rest from Jesus as pertaining our works.

3) Will you explain verse 9 and 10 with that inclusion of, "a keeping of the Sabbath"?

 

[cfultz3]

Hebrews 4 mentions different kinds of rest. Rest in Christ. Sabbath rest & the rest to come.

Will you break down the different rests found in Hebrews 4?

 

[Laodicea]

Hebrews 4:4 KJV
(4) For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

Notice that twice in this verse the 7th day is mentioned so we know that is it being discussed in this passage.

 

[cfultz3]

Hebrews 4:4 KJV
(4) For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

Notice that twice in this verse the 7th day is mentioned so we know that is it being discussed in this passage.

True. But, doesn't v6 tell us that they did not enter into that rest because of unbelief, and v3 tell us that we do (present indicative) enter into that rest because of believe?

Consider: the seventh day is God's sabbatism, His rest from work. In Jesus, we are offered a rest from our works, just as God rested from His works.

 

[Laodicea]

Notice the different translations on this verse.

Hebrews 4:9 ISV
(9) There remains, therefore, a Sabbath rest for the people of God,

Hebrews 4:9 GNB
(9) As it is, however, there still remains for God's people a rest like God's resting on the seventh day.

Hebrews 4:9 Darby
(9) There remains then a sabbatism to the people of God.

Hebrews 4:9 ASV
(9) There remaineth therefore a sabbath rest for the people of God.

Hebrews 4:9 LEB
(9) Consequently a sabbath rest remains for the people of God.

Hebrews 4:9 LITV
(9) So, then, there remains a sabbath rest to the people of God.

Hebrews 4:9 (NIV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God;

 

[cfultz3]

Notice the different translations on this verse.

Hebrews 4:9 ISV
(9) There remains, therefore, a Sabbath rest for the people of God,

Hebrews 4:9 GNB
(9) As it is, however, there still remains for God's people a rest like God's resting on the seventh day.

Hebrews 4:9 Darby
(9) There remains then a sabbatism to the people of God.

Hebrews 4:9 ASV
(9) There remaineth therefore a sabbath rest for the people of God.

Hebrews 4:9 LEB
(9) Consequently a sabbath rest remains for the people of God.

Hebrews 4:9 LITV
(9) So, then, there remains a sabbath rest to the people of God.

Hebrews 4:9 (NIV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God;

Every single translation you presented is exactly what I am saying. It is that we have a sabbath rest in Christ. That is what He left behind for us. No more works for our righteousness. We rest in Him, just as God rested from His works.

Please tell me that you see the same thing. No more works, we rest from the Law. Amen, Brother?

 

[Laodicea]

Every single translation you presented is exactly what I am saying. It is that we have a sabbath rest in Christ. That is what He left behind for us. No more works for our righteousness. We rest in Him, just as God rested from His works.

Please tell me that you see the same thing. No more works, we rest from the Law. Amen, Brother?

I am glad you changed it from sister to brother. Nowhere in all the Bible did people work for righteousness, it has always been a gift from God. Those different translations support the fact that the 7th day sabbath remains. Yes we rest in Christ. Rest in God is something that has always been. The sanctuary service of the old testament shows how we receive forgiveness, righteousness & glorification when Jesus returns.

 

[Kerry]

We receive it by the cross and not church attendance nor anything else. Keeping sabbath is flesh and not Spirit. Although going to church is a good thing and all believers should do it. If you looking for victory over sin or healing or relationship troubles or financial troubles. Yo0u want find it in things that you can do, you will find by placing your faith in the work of the cross Romans 7. There is no work that you can do that God will accept. Our only hope is the cross and nothing else. You can't fast your way out of problem you can't read your way out, you can't even pray your way out unless the focal point of your faith is in the cross. The cross is the means that allows us to reconciled with God. It is the meeting place or altar. It's not what you do its what you believe. Abraham believed God and it was accounted unto him as righteousness even though he was not righteous. He made many many mistakes, but his faith was steadfast in the cross.

 

[cfultz3]

I am glad you changed it from sister to brother. Nowhere in all the Bible did people work for righteousness, it has always been a gift from God. Those different translations support the fact that the 7th day sabbath remains. Yes we rest in Christ. Rest in God is something that has always been. The sanctuary service of the old testament shows how we receive forgiveness, righteousness & glorification when Jesus returns.

Nothing personal, it is just something about your name which makes me think female

I thought I caught it in time

 

[Laodicea]

Every single translation you presented is exactly what I am saying. It is that we have a sabbath rest in Christ. That is what He left behind for us. No more works for our righteousness. We rest in Him, just as God rested from His works.

Please tell me that you see the same thing. No more works, we rest from the Law. Amen, Brother?

A few Bibles including the King James have translated this word as “rest” while the Amplified, ASV, NASB, NIV, RSV and NRSV and many other translations have more correctly translated this Greek word as “Sabbath rest.” The literal translation of the Greek word “sabbatismos” however is “Sabbath observance.” Note also that “The Scriptures” translated by The Institute for Scripture Research also translate the Greek word “sabbatismos” correctly as “Sabbath observance.”

Hebrews 4:9 - What Is The Greek Definition Of Sabbatismos

 

[cfultz3]

There is a funny thing in this world. We all strive to be who we are and a time comes when we have reached our pinnacle of understanding and not even legions of angels can show us anything new. We stand firm where our years of living have brought us and strike at what is perceived as a threat. And there are times in that heated battle of perseverance when there is no decree of turning, only a continuation of where we have been brought.

A soul is so fragile, the most tender care is needed when it is handled. If it is bruised, it will cry and yet, live. If it is burnt, it will scream its displeasure. And in its state of agony that soul does not know what to do when hope is offered, but continues on to where it was brought. Who knows, maybe that whisper in the bellowing wind will be heard and that soul's liberation is soon had. As long as hope is hoped, hope will never be lost.

What is a man but a tool along another's path. Perhaps, he is a tool for goodness, even a tool for evilness. Only his master knows. But, this we do know, his praise comes from having done his master's bidding. What more can a soul seek then to please his master. Perhaps, that whisper in the wind will be heard and that soul's liberation is soon had. But, until then, what is a man but a tool along another's path.

In Jesus, there is freedom from the prison which bonds us to another. By His name, the gates have been swung wide opened. "Freedom at last....Freedom at last" says the liberated soul.

 

[haz]

Jude 1:4 KJV
(4) For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

This text is talking about people in the early church turning the grace of God into lasciviousness. How did they do that? How are we in danger of doing the same thing?

Lasciviousness is lust/expression for sexual desire.
In Jude 1:4 we need to ask for whom is this lust referring to?

Scripture is spiritually discerned (1Cor 2:14) so we should see this in spiritual terms.

Christians are married to Christ.
Eph 5:31-32
“For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.”This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church"

Christians are saved by grace and abide in Christ. Our faith is counted for righteousness, Rom 4:5.
So being married to Christ, who are we to avoid any spiritual sexual desire for?
1Cor 6:15-19
Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take the members of Christ and make them members of a harlot? Certainly not!Or do you not know that he who is joined to a harlot is one body with her? For “the two,” He says, “shall become one flesh.”But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.
Flee sexual immorality. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body. Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own?

Who is this harlot that we are to flee spiritual sexual immorality with?
It refers to the old covenant of righteousness by works of the law, which is symbolically described as Hagar. .
Gal 4:23-26
But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise, which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar— for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children— but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all.

So we see scripture, when speaking of sexual immorality, is referring to which covenant we are under. We're saved by grace, hence we should not then turn back to works of the law to determine righteousness. We cannot even mix grace with works of the law.
Rom 11:6
And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.

Note God's will for us.
1Thess 4:3
For this is the will of God, your sanctification (which we have when we believe on Jesus, Heb 10:10) that you should abstain from sexual immorality;(with Hagar/righteousness by works of the law).

So scripture shows us that we are to remain under grace and not to turn back to the old covenant of righteousness by works of the law (Hagar, Gal 4:24). To turn back to the law or even mix grace with works of the law is spiritual sexual immorality. We should avoid anyone who preaches doctrines that mix grace with works of the law. Such ungodly persons are turning the grace of God into spiritual lasciviousness, as Jude 1:4 says.