BREAKING COVENANT

[Rockbysea]

I understand people would want the covenants of God in separate categories.

It’s not about what the people want or don’t want regarding the covenants being separate,. The covenants are separate because each one was designed for a different party.

I don’t think that is what is being presented in this thread.

Yes that is not being presented in this thread and that’s why I don't agree.

Bottom line, the covenant in Christ can be broken and some (professing only) Christians today refuse to acknowledge this truth.

Those who have the attitude that a contract with God cannot be broken as a result of their non-compliance will never come into covenant with God in the first place.

So when we confess that we are saved, we are bound to the covenant despite our insincerity.

Not so. The Father determines who is bound by covenant established through His Son not the insincere or sincere confession of a man.

 

[homwardbound]

When God makes a covenant it is not regulations such as we would classify as dictation like "do it or die"! Covenant was instituted as a loving jester for mankind to respond to God's promises. That is why love is the focus when God's words define the statutes within any covenant He has ever made. Any covenant before Christ was absolutely necessary for all things to be completed in Christ Jesus. Throw away any of the previous covenants, and those promises of God become forgotten. The repercussions lead to taking "the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain." Exodus 20:7 (KJV)

So then let us be careful not to fleece the flock

 

[homwardbound]

[SUP]11 [/SUP]“How blessed you are when people insult you and persecute you and tell all kinds of vicious lies about you because you follow me! [SUP]12 [/SUP]Rejoice, be glad, because your reward in heaven is great — they persecuted the prophets before you in the same way.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]“You are salt for the Land. But if salt becomes tasteless, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything except being thrown out for people to trample on.

[SUP]14 [/SUP]“You are light for the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Likewise, when people light a lamp, they don’t cover it with a bowl but put it on a lampstand, so that it shines for everyone in the house. [SUP]16 [/SUP]In the same way, let your light shine before people, so that they may see the good things you do and praise your Father in heaven.

[SUP]17 [/SUP]“Don’t think that I have come to abolish the Torah or the Prophets. I have come not to abolish but to complete. [SUP]18 [/SUP]Yes indeed! I tell you that until heaven and earth pass away, not so much as a yud or a stroke will pass from the Torah — not until everything that must happen has happened. [SUP]19 [/SUP]So whoever disobeys the least of these mitzvot and teaches others to do so will be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But whoever obeys them and so teaches will be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven. [SUP]20 [/SUP]For I tell you that unless your righteousness is far greater than that of the Torah-teachers and P’rushim, you will certainly not enter the Kingdom of Heaven!

I have found this to be true, before one can be completed in Christ they many times need to be put under law to show their need for Christ, and thus do come to the end of the energy of their own flesh and decide to be dead to their own flesh and alive to God through the finished work of Son fro tem to be Holy before Father as said in Col. 1:1-29
[h=3]Colossians 1[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timotheus our brother, [SUP]2 [/SUP]to the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you, [SUP]4 [/SUP]since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the love which ye have to all the saints, [SUP]5 [/SUP]for the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel; [SUP]6 [/SUP]which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth: [SUP]7 [/SUP]as ye also learned of Epaphras our dear fellowservant, who is for you a faithful minister of Christ; [SUP]8 [/SUP]who also declared unto us your love in the Spirit.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; [SUP]10 [/SUP]that ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God; [SUP]11 [/SUP]strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness; [SUP]12 [/SUP]giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: [SUP]13 [/SUP]who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: [SUP]14 [/SUP]in whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: [SUP]15 [/SUP]who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: [SUP]16 [/SUP]for by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: [SUP]17 [/SUP]and he is before all things, and by him all things consist. [SUP]18 [/SUP]And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. [SUP]19 [/SUP]For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; [SUP]20 [/SUP]and, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled [SUP]22 [/SUP]in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: [SUP]23 [/SUP]if ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister; [SUP]24 [/SUP]who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body’s sake, which is the church: [SUP]25 [/SUP]whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; [SUP]26 [/SUP]even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: [SUP]27 [/SUP]to whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: [SUP]28 [/SUP]whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: [SUP]29 [/SUP]whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

The covenant is to believe God and trust God, in all things

 

[homwardbound]

Historically, two parties sharing a lick of salt meant they were binding themselves to one another in greatest loyalty and honesty, to the point of suffering death rather than break the covenant. The truces made, the friendships and treaties sealed this way, were never taken lightly. Even the physical properties of salt echo the seriousness of a covenant made with it because it is, among other things, a preservative that prevents decay and corruption. Salt represented purification and symbolized enduring friendship, honesty, and loyalty to the ancient Hebrews.

Bringing the Salt Covenant from Bible times into our time, Dr. Trumbull, considered by scholars to be the greatest authority on Covenant making, says Jesus was talking about covenants in Matthew 5:13 – taken literally, Jesus was saying that we are God’s expression of covenant. "You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt has become tasteless, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled under foot by men.” (NAS)

No matter what it is God's type of Love that goes on forever, te type that no flesh can fathom. Only in the Spirit of truth of and from God can this be understood and done here and now today, in the Spirit of God alone

 

[homwardbound]

Just so you know the biblical meaning of faith. You can have faith that every word of scripture, new and old testament is true words of God, but if that faith isn't enough that you can act on it, it isn't worth a plugged nickel, it is dead as scripture tells us.

And in agreement I post this:
[h=3]1 Corinthians 13:1-3[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

13 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. [SUP]2 [/SUP]And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. [SUP]3 [/SUP]And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

 

[lookuptoseeJesus]

The key is the meaning of the word
SANCTIFIED = to purify, consecrate our lives to following God's entire word (His will)
without this key you cannot understand the covenant, it is only to those who have
sanctified (committed their lives to serve Jesus)

First covenantt: doing right expected
Gen 6:18 But with thee will I establish my covenant;
and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons,
and thy wife, and thy sons' wives with thee.
Believe and do

New covenant: - He puts the desire to do right in us.
Heb 10:16
This is the covenant
that I will make with them after those days,
saith the Lord,
I will put my laws into their hearts, thoughts and feelings,
and in their minds, understanding and disposition (way of living)
will I inscribe them;
(wanting to believe and do)



Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.


Heb 10:18 Now where (deliverance by power from doing sin)
of these is, there is no more offering for sin.



Heb 10:19 Having therefore, brethren,
boldness to enter into the holiest lifestyle
by the blood of Jesus, (power - I can do all things through christ)


Heb 10:20 By a new and living way,
(new way to live, not sinning, not breaking commandments anymore)
which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;


Heb 10:21 And having an high priest over the house of God;


Heb 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart
in full assurance of faith,
having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience,
and our bodies washed with pure water.


Heb 10:23 Let us hold fast the profession
of our faith without wavering;
(for he is faithful that promised


Heb 10:24 And let us consider one another
to provoke unto love and to good works:


Heb 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together,
as the manner of some is;
but exhorting one another:
and so much the more,
as ye see the day approaching.

Ok we are "saved" now what?
Heb 10:26
For if we sin (TRANSGRESS GOD'S MITZVAH 10 commandments)
wilfully after that we have received the knowledge
of the truth,
there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,



Heb 10:27
But a certain fearful looking for
of judgment
and fiery indignation,
which shall devour the adversaries.




Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant,
wherewith he was sanctified,
an unholy thing,
and hath done (sinning and breaking the law)
despite unto the Spirit of grace?

 

[phil112]

Originally Posted by just-me................Covenant was instituted as a loving jester for mankind to respond to God's promises.....................

gesture............. fixed it for you

Perfect example of using the wrong word to say something. I HOPE you didn't do that intentionally.
I also hope you read the bible more carefully than you spell.

 

[Karraster]

The Almighty has turned and has given us, the Christian Church and the Christian world, up to worship the host of heaven, which comprises the sun, the moon, and the stars, of which the sun is the most important. He did this to Israel after He brought them out of Egypt, the land of sin, Acts 7:38,39 and 42. The startling truth is that He has done it again, to us! This is revealed to us in the book of Revelation by our Saviour, in Rev. 12:1—the woman (the Church), "clothed with the sun . . . moon . . . stars." The Almighty delivered Israel up (Act 7:42 NASB) to worship the host of heaven, because they would not abide by, and remain faithful to, the Covenant, the "Ten Words"— Deut. 4:13 Hebrew text, correctly rendered in the New English Bible or Green's Interlinear. Israel would not abide by the "Living Words" (Acts 7:38 NIV or Green's Interlinear) which they received from the Angel on Mt. Sinai, through the mediation of Moses.
Likewise, our Saviour, the Mediator of the New Covenant (Heb. 8:6, Heb. 9:15, Heb. 12:24), has been seeking to mediate the New Covenant to us. The contents of the New Covenant are the same as the Covenant of old, namely the Law of Yahúweh [SUP]1[/SUP] (Heb. 8: 10, Heb. 10: 16, Jer. 31:33), of which the Ten Words, the "Living Words" or the Ten Commandments, form the basis or foundation. These Ten Words were given on two tables. The second table with the last six Commandments is the basis of the ethical or social law. The first table with the first four Commandments is the basis of the religious law. The second table is the basis of our love towards our neighbour, our fellow-man (Matt. 22:39, Luke 10:27b, Mark 12:31, Rom. 13:9, Lev. 19:18). The first table is the basis of our love towards Yahúweh (Matt. 22:37- 38, Luke 10:27a Mark 12:29-30, Deut. 6:5).

​

For almost 2 000 years the Church has been striving to get people to adhere to the ethical or social laws The laws of the second table, the love towards our neighbour and fellow- man. But what about the love towards Yahúweh, the first table, the religious laws? These have been shockingly neglected, turned aside, "done away with" or ignored. The very essence of Yahushúa our Saviour's final message in Revelation chapters 12 to 22 is that of the sad neglect, in fact, even rejection of the "love towards Yahúweh"—the religious laws.

 

[homwardbound]

Acts 17:10,11
And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews. These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Searched the scriptures daily..........because there was a question in their mind about what he said and they wanted to be sure. Is that so hard to understand?
If someone is not interested in having "meat", they should stay out of conservations that involve it. Milk is fine for most folks, but I have no intention of shying away from discussing bible truth. If someone is wary of where they stand with the word of God, they should be hesitant to make absloute statements.

Tell me what is the "bible way" and how am I not doing it correctly?

I can't speak for you, between God and you, but I see you on the right track in to grow
[h=3]Hebrews 5:11-6:6[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]11 [/SUP]Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing. [SUP]12 [/SUP]For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. [SUP]13 [/SUP]For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. [SUP]14 [/SUP]But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
6 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, [SUP]2 [/SUP]of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. [SUP]3 [/SUP]And this will we do, if God permit. [SUP]4 [/SUP]For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, [SUP]5 [/SUP]and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, [SUP]6 [/SUP]if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

To start with Brother by God you are forgiven through Son Christ, now grow: if God permit unto perfection found only in Son unto Father and walk as Christ walked in total dependence on Father

 

[Karraster]

So then let us be careful not to fleece the flock

In the end, the decision is yours to make, but a wise person will rely on these God-given resources to make a good decision, one that pleases God and is good for you.

 

[homwardbound]

[SUP]15 [/SUP]It is because of this death that he is mediator of a new covenant [or will].[SUP][a][/SUP] Because a death has occurred which sets people free from the transgressions committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promised eternal inheritance. [SUP]16 [/SUP]For where there is a will, there must necessarily be produced evidence of its maker’s death, [SUP]17 [/SUP]since a will goes into effect only upon death; it never has force while its maker is still alive.



Just another rendering of translation. Many do not understand how testament is covenant. I didn't know it for a long time.

The new or renewed covenant, enforces the old.

Some cling to the cross (more likely it was a stake, but that's another topic) and falsely think it means go your way, do as is fitting in your eyes. We have no law anymore, ..That is folly.

What was nailed to the stake along with Messiah was our sin, and man's adding to instructions/law...and blood sacrifice, for Messiah was the end of blood sacrifice for our sins.

How many times did Messiah heal people, then say "go and sin no more"..What is sin? Breaking Torah, lawlessness, that is sin.

No one can really love as Father has said until they see:
1 John 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.

[h=3]Ephesians 3:16-18[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]16 [/SUP]that he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; [SUP]17 [/SUP]that Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, [SUP]18 [/SUP]may be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;

 

[homwardbound]

WRONG!!! The new covenant REPLACED the old. What is it about plain scripture that makes you want to reject it so easily?

Hebrews 8:13In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

The new is the difference between flesh and the Spirit of God, to seek after the spirit of God where today is the only way God is worshipped in Spirit and truth
John 4:23-24

 

[homwardbound]

I love you brother Just-me! I love brother Rockbysea, even tho I do get frustrated with him sometimes. ~wink~ I know he too gets frustrated with me! We are all trying to find our way, we stumble and get back up, over and over...it is life.

And Sister there is:
Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

 

[homwardbound]

I even love Phil.

So to do this you must see the Love of God that God has for us all through the Son at the cross

 

[RedTent]

No, that is not correct.


If you want to put yourself under the law, go ahead. That will get you eternal punishment. If you obey the two commandments that God has given us, through Christ, the law will never have any application in your life. If you spent more time studying the new testament, which replaced the old, because the old was rotting away, you might understand more of the subject. Clinging to the law is not going to get you there my friend.

You read the same scripture I do and hear God telling you the very opposite that God tells me! HOW could this be? You sort of tell me to go to hell! besides, to go ahead and not use Christ for my savior. It is a terrible!

Then you tell me not to study the OT, that God has been replaced! Is that because the blood of Christ replaced the blood of animals that represented Him? That would be like throwing out the baby with his bathwater. The OT explains Christ to me in a way that gives me better understanding of the New Testament. I think your lack of understanding of the OT is leading to a misunderstanding of the New. I suggest you stop reading the OT superficially, and start reading it as an understanding of Christ.

Of course, I cling to the law. I cling to Christ, I cling to all of God, and the directions God gives for my life has direct and profound application in my life. I follow Christ. And following the law gets me all the Hebrew word shalom explains. If you want people to follow sin, that is not going to get them anywhere but darkness and bondage.

 

[just-me]

gesture............. fixed it for you

Perfect example of using the wrong word to say something. I HOPE you didn't do that intentionally.
I also hope you read the bible more carefully than you spell.

It was a mistake on my part. I'm happy that you enlightened all those that are reading these posts that I am human. I'm very happy that you are above this imperfect example of my fallibility. It is are very good to share all of your heart so everybody can see you as you really are. All people should do that. It's exemplary to be that brave and forthright by reminding others of their vulnerable state. Thanks again.

I use spell check a lot. LOL

 

[homwardbound]

In the end, the decision is yours to make, but a wise person will rely on these God-given resources to make a good decision, one that pleases God and is good for you.

Sister, I am 100% dependent on Father through Son Christ, By Faith in the finished work of Christ walking in the Spirit of God where no flesh can upset this type of Love ever and no sin can take place in God's Spirit ever.
We are called through Christ to be born again, having life more abundantly. Now this is to be content in all things, whether good or bad. Whether homeless or not
As Paul I am crucified never the less "I" live
Praying you see this, it is not by any works of the flesh, it is by God's Mercy through Son. All credit to Father thanks to Son. so I am a partaker in God's righteousness, as Christ was the same and very clear that only Father is good Matt 19

 

[just-us-2]

It is all in how it is said. But, where did the nasty comments start? Take note of where the contentious (Galatians 5:15 and 20 (“variance,” “strife”)) comments started – way back at post #2 - can people not bring up a subject they see in a post with gentleness (as most of us know in our heads is part of the fruit of the Spirit in Galatians 5:22) and humility? Whenever someone jumps on my case saying I’m all wet for sharing what I have learned in order to edify others and aid in a closer walk with God, when they are promoting the abdicating of responsibility on our part, I see it as wrongly dividing the Word of Truth we are told to rightly divide. When I get to the point that I think I can’t learn anything from anybody else because I know more than they do…uff da! …what a horrible thought…may God strike me down for misrepresenting Him!

i'd just like to add 2 things...learning can go both ways.
and i believe in being obedient to all NT commands.

Learning SHOULD go both ways – at least we seem to agree on that.

That is where we differ – I apply the entire Bible in context to my life the best I know how. After all, if we need only the New Testament and don’t need to pay any attention to the Old Testament, we wouldn’t have it. Besides if that were the case the gospels would have no use because the “new” covenant wasn’t in effect until He died. And I strive to constantly learn more and be more the person my Savior requires me to be since I profess to be one of His.

 

[Mastersman]

Hey Just us 2, your point is well taken, I guess in my zeal to encourage one friend I became a little callous to the feelings of another, and u r right gentleness is an element in the fruit of the spirit. I want to maintain a good spirit on cc, and I want people to enjoy chatting with me. I don't want to be constantly in conflict with my brothers and sisters in Christ. 1 Cor 10:17 says "For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread. If we are truly saved we are all part of His Church, and all part of the family, Praise god! we are one in Christ!

 

[just-me]

Originally Posted by just-me
So when we confess that we are saved, we are bound to the covenant despite our insincerity.

Not so. The Father determines who is bound by covenant established through His Son not the insincere or sincere confession of a man.

Sounds like a dictatorship to me. Instead of God issuing Words that we can respond to, you seem to be saying that God says you better respond, and you have no alternative. I don't see an institution (covenant) of a loving relationship in that.