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Friendly troll, no, I think not.
There was no mention of the ten commandments in my post only a reference to God declaring the Seventh Day His gift to man to rest with Him and spend the day. Also, you did not have the dignity to pay attention to the fact that I said whatever day a person believes to observe in the sight of God with a clear conscience is fine, it is not a sin. I have maintained this teaching from Paul throughout all my posts.
What you fail to recognize is there is no mention in the Word, that is Old and New Testament, to change the Seventh Day to the First, and this order of creation given us in the Word has not been changed. You are not a friendly troll. When you learn to read and address the content of the posts to which you reply, you will have beguin to be a student of truth, until then do not lay ideas on others they have not purported, this is lying.
The Lord Jesus Christ did not tell you from any of the epistles in the NT, nor from the book of Hebrews or Revelation to keep or remember the Sabbath. It does not exist in any of the instructions or commandments to any of the NT churches and this includes Friday/Saturday or Sunday. There were many Jews in those churches as well as Gentiles and never one time were any of them commanded or urged to remember or keep the Sabbath. So I don't care what you say God told you, the NT church is not commanded and does not teach it in any way, shape or form and this is why you have a problem with Paul and you do have a problem with what he taught as an Israelite, from the tribe of Benjamin, from the seed of Abraham, who was of the elite of the Pharisees, who persecuted Christians and had them killed, who God redeemed and raised up as an apostle by pure mercy and grace, not only to the Gentiles but also to the Jews.
If you want to remember the Sabbath and worship God on that day you consider to be the Sabbath, go right ahead, but don't you teach that the NT scriptures instructs any member of the church, God's redeemed both of the Jew and the Gentile, to do likewise, because it does not. You will not find even one reference relating to keeping or remembering the Sabbath in any epistle nor from the lips of any of the original apostles. That is a dilemma for you JaumeJ and you are not right on this. Grace gives you the freedom to keep and remember the Sabbath if that is what you desire but it is not a commandment for the NT church and it has been that way for over 2,000 years. Put that in your 10 commandment pipe and toke on that for awhile.
From your friendly troll,
BradC[/QUOTE]
There was no mention of the ten commandments in my post only a reference to God declaring the Seventh Day His gift to man to rest with Him and spend the day. Also, you did not have the dignity to pay attention to the fact that I said whatever day a person believes to observe in the sight of God with a clear conscience is fine, it is not a sin. I have maintained this teaching from Paul throughout all my posts.
What you fail to recognize is there is no mention in the Word, that is Old and New Testament, to change the Seventh Day to the First, and this order of creation given us in the Word has not been changed. You are not a friendly troll. When you learn to read and address the content of the posts to which you reply, you will have beguin to be a student of truth, until then do not lay ideas on others they have not purported, this is lying.
The Lord Jesus Christ did not tell you from any of the epistles in the NT, nor from the book of Hebrews or Revelation to keep or remember the Sabbath. It does not exist in any of the instructions or commandments to any of the NT churches and this includes Friday/Saturday or Sunday. There were many Jews in those churches as well as Gentiles and never one time were any of them commanded or urged to remember or keep the Sabbath. So I don't care what you say God told you, the NT church is not commanded and does not teach it in any way, shape or form and this is why you have a problem with Paul and you do have a problem with what he taught as an Israelite, from the tribe of Benjamin, from the seed of Abraham, who was of the elite of the Pharisees, who persecuted Christians and had them killed, who God redeemed and raised up as an apostle by pure mercy and grace, not only to the Gentiles but also to the Jews.
If you want to remember the Sabbath and worship God on that day you consider to be the Sabbath, go right ahead, but don't you teach that the NT scriptures instructs any member of the church, God's redeemed both of the Jew and the Gentile, to do likewise, because it does not. You will not find even one reference relating to keeping or remembering the Sabbath in any epistle nor from the lips of any of the original apostles. That is a dilemma for you JaumeJ and you are not right on this. Grace gives you the freedom to keep and remember the Sabbath if that is what you desire but it is not a commandment for the NT church and it has been that way for over 2,000 years. Put that in your 10 commandment pipe and toke on that for awhile.
From your friendly troll,
BradC[/QUOTE]
Well, this will chap ya'.
The Seder is not authorized by God in the NT, and we are to worship God only in the way he has authorized, not according to what we think is good, which the NT calls will worship (Col 2:22-23).
God has authorized the Lord's Supper, not the Passover, for the NT.
We are to focus on, and proclaim the death of Jesus in the NT Lord's Supper (1Co 11:26),
not focus on and proclaim Jewish deliverance from Egypt in the OT Passover.
The Seder is not authorized by God in the NT, and we are to worship God only in the way he has authorized, not according to what we think is good, which the NT calls will worship (Col 2:22-23).
God has authorized the Lord's Supper, not the Passover, for the NT.
We are to focus on, and proclaim the death of Jesus in the NT Lord's Supper (1Co 11:26),
not focus on and proclaim Jewish deliverance from Egypt in the OT Passover.
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Do the words of our Savior carry any weight here with those against the teachings of God?
[SUP]
10 [/SUP]For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death: [SUP]11 [/SUP]But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free. [SUP]12 [/SUP]And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother; [SUP]13[/SUP]making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
Perhaps the Word of God is of none effect through your tradition. Do you honestly expect when our Savior mentions but one of the Ten Commandments, He is saying the others, or any one of them is to no effect? Perhaps you will ammend what He says here to mean the Shabbat commandment is also null and void. Yes, tradition, tradition is your commandment, but not the Word of God, for you know what His Word says about all concerning the order of creation.
[SUP]
10 [/SUP]For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death: [SUP]11 [/SUP]But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free. [SUP]12 [/SUP]And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother; [SUP]13[/SUP]making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
Perhaps the Word of God is of none effect through your tradition. Do you honestly expect when our Savior mentions but one of the Ten Commandments, He is saying the others, or any one of them is to no effect? Perhaps you will ammend what He says here to mean the Shabbat commandment is also null and void. Yes, tradition, tradition is your commandment, but not the Word of God, for you know what His Word says about all concerning the order of creation.
why do some say they can't be obeyed? In all honesty I am seeing it is a debate over Sabbath. At least
I hope I'm not conversing with a murderer.
[h=3]Romans 6:1-2[/h]King James Version (KJV)
6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
And the scriptures say...
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Now, what does Paul say the nature that resides in us is really like?
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
And this...
Jas 4:5 Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?
Our human spirit is not automatically made perfect upon conversion. Conversion is a process...
2Pe 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.
If we are immediately a perfectly loving, wonderful individual at conversion, why do we need to GROW in grace and knowledge?
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Now, what does Paul say the nature that resides in us is really like?
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
And this...
Jas 4:5 Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?
Our human spirit is not automatically made perfect upon conversion. Conversion is a process...
2Pe 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.
If we are immediately a perfectly loving, wonderful individual at conversion, why do we need to GROW in grace and knowledge?
You have ignored an improtant part of this passage...
Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
You have ignored the fact that the New Covenant is made with Israel and Judah. Wanna be part of the New Covenant?
Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
And this homespun philosophy negates theses scriptural passages?
1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jn 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
And again...
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Paul's experience was different than yours. I gotta go with Paul on this one.
Never mind that the two are a summation of the Ten Commandments as well as the Statutes as Mat 22:37-39 show since they are a direct quote from Deut 6 and 10 and Lev 19.
1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jn 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
And again...
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Paul's experience was different than yours. I gotta go with Paul on this one.
Never mind that the two are a summation of the Ten Commandments as well as the Statutes as Mat 22:37-39 show since they are a direct quote from Deut 6 and 10 and Lev 19.
Well then, since we are deliverd from the Law, explain why we need a Savior? Since we are delivered from the Law, there can be no penalty for breaking it...
Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
So if someone breaks into your home, steals your possessions and kills you, what are they guilty of? Certainly not sin since...
1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
And we just read that sin is not imputed when there is no Law. So, apparently they have done nothing wrong.
Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
So if someone breaks into your home, steals your possessions and kills you, what are they guilty of? Certainly not sin since...
1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
And we just read that sin is not imputed when there is no Law. So, apparently they have done nothing wrong.
It sounds as though some believe because they have become a member of the Body of Yeshua they are instantly perfect. These folks are exceedingly misled by their self glorification, void of humility, and unable to hear reason, and they should be avoided until either they repent or go away. No, this is not a direct quote, but it is fromt he Torah of the entire Word. Beginning to reign without the King present is a thought only entertained by the enemy.
Why don't you show us that scripture? In the mean time we will read this...
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Notice the words in red? Means they were spoken by Jesus Christ.
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Notice the words in red? Means they were spoken by Jesus Christ.
Ya gotta love this one...
1Co 11:20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.
But then, Christ said this...
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
And people think He CAME TO DESTROY THE LAW.
Luk 22:15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:
Luk 22:16 For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.
Luk 22:17 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves:
Luk 22:18 For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.
Luk 22:19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.
Luk 22:20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.
Luk 22:21 But, behold, the hand of him that betrayeth me is with me on the table.
So, Christ kept the Passover and instructed the disciples "this do in remembrance of me". Someone just told you not to do this.
I gotta go with Christ on this one.
1Co 11:20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.
But then, Christ said this...
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
And people think He CAME TO DESTROY THE LAW.
Luk 22:15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:
Luk 22:16 For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.
Luk 22:17 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves:
Luk 22:18 For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.
Luk 22:19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.
Luk 22:20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.
Luk 22:21 But, behold, the hand of him that betrayeth me is with me on the table.
So, Christ kept the Passover and instructed the disciples "this do in remembrance of me". Someone just told you not to do this.
I gotta go with Christ on this one.
why do some say they can't be obeyed? In all honesty I am seeing it is a debate over Sabbath. At least
I hope I'm not conversing with a murderer.
Romans 6:1-2
King James Version (KJV)
6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
It is really awful for those who hate the natural branches so much as to reject all things pointing to the faith of Abraham simply because they sound "too Jewish."
Every time we come together for breaking bread in the memory of Jesus Chris Wha was called Yeshua in Hebrew, we are commemorating and reaenacting His seder, for He is the Passover Lamb of God........if this hurts any anti-semites reading here, it should.
Every time we come together for breaking bread in the memory of Jesus Chris Wha was called Yeshua in Hebrew, we are commemorating and reaenacting His seder, for He is the Passover Lamb of God........if this hurts any anti-semites reading here, it should.