Is the Rapture biblical

[GM777]

I've read the entire New Testament and while the signs and scriptures certainly point to Jesus' return, I didn't find any evidence of a Rapture and assumed the meeting in the air was referring to the second coming. Is the rapture just wishful thinking and does it occur, if it is even legitimate, before or after the mark of the beast? Bible says let no man deceive you for that day shall not come until the man of perdition is revealed (paraphrased). Confused by this.

 

[GM777]

Not confused by the Anti-Christ being revealed, I'm confused by the lack of evidence for a rapture of the church before things get ugly

 

[overcomer2]

I've read the entire New Testament and while the signs and scriptures certainly point to Jesus' return, I didn't find any evidence of a Rapture and assumed the meeting in the air was referring to the second coming. Is the rapture just wishful thinking and does it occur, if it is even legitimate, before or after the mark of the beast? Bible says let no man deceive you for that day shall not come until the man of perdition is revealed (paraphrased). Confused by this.

You are right the word rapture is not is scripture or at least not in KJV. It is called catching away. Okay, lets say that for humanity sake we call it the same thing, meaning that through time words have changed, there will be a time the Lord comes for you. You must be ready (period). No, well I have to bury my father or my daughter is getting married. You must quickly get ready. Now, how soon is this. If you believe that Isreal becoming a nation in 1948 (is that right?) (Using the ole memory). then 70 years for a generation and you have the LOrd coming back soon. GLORY, GLORY, GLORY~~~

 

[kingerik]

Thessalonians 4:13–18


The Coming of the Lord
13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. 14 For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. 15 For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord,t hat we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

It's not called the rapture in the bible but it is definitely biblical! Be prepared either way...we are entering into the last days.

 

[Shouryu]

I prefer the actual Greek word used, which is harpazo​, rather than The Rapture.

 

[GM777]

Thessalonians 4:13–18


The Coming of the Lord
13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. 14 For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. 15 For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord,t hat we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

It's not called the rapture in the bible but it is definitely biblical! Be prepared either way...we are entering into the last days.

But this, to me, refers to the second coming after the tribulation. This does not speak of a pre-tribulation rapture. Just confirms my suspicion that a pre-trib rapture is fabricated by man. Wish it were true. *sigh*

 

[Historicist]

I've read the entire New Testament and while the signs and scriptures certainly point to Jesus' return, I didn't find any evidence of a Rapture and assumed the meeting in the air was referring to the second coming. Is the rapture just wishful thinking and does it occur, if it is even legitimate, before or after the mark of the beast? Bible says let no man deceive you for that day shall not come until the man of perdition is revealed (paraphrased). Confused by this.

"Rapture," a word not in scripture is used by Dispensationalists-Futurists to disguise the fact that the resurrection of "the dead in Christ" in 1 Thessalians 4:13-18, etc. cannot occur before "the first resurrection" (Rev. 20:6). They are teaching a Jesus who descends from, but immediately returns to heaven for seven years. This, of course, requires a Jesus who must descend again---a third time! And, of course, in between this second and third time is a convenient second chance for a nation of neo-Pharisees masquerading as Israel.

Historicist

 

[kingerik]

But this, to me, refers to the second coming after the tribulation. This does not speak of a pre-tribulation rapture. Just confirms my suspicion that a pre-trib rapture is fabricated by man. Wish it were true. *sigh*

Yes, I've always heard of pre-trib, but i've accepted that the tribulation will happen and then the second coming. it actual makes since...Christians will few as i Imagine the persecution will weed many out. But I've heard, that the trib is already happening in the other countries such as Iraq, North Korea, and such in the Muslim territory...I'm just prepared either way.

 

[kingerik]

But this, to me, refers to the second coming after the tribulation. This does not speak of a pre-tribulation rapture. Just confirms my suspicion that a pre-trib rapture is fabricated by man. Wish it were true. *sigh*

We just need to be ready and bringing more people back to his kingdom!

 

[Historicist]

Thessalonians 4:13–18


The Coming of the Lord
13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. 14 For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. 15 For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord,t hat we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

It's not called the rapture in the bible but it is definitely biblical! Be prepared either way...we are entering into the last days.

Kingerik,

Where, in the context of 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 do you find a Jesus who, descends from heaven, but who immediately returns? Where? It is'nt there, you're reading it into the text. "Meet," in the context of verse 17, means to meet and return with. The dead in Christ, and those alive in the same rise, to meet, i.e., to greet the Lord in the air---on his way way down. Again, there is nothing in these verses about a Jesus who goes back to heaven. This would require Christ to descend again---a third time. Absurd!

 

[Historicist]

I prefer the actual Greek word used, which is harpazo​, rather than The Rapture.

Okay then, call it as in the Greek, but still, this does not mean that Jesus, upon descending from heaven, immediately goes back. This idea is being read into the text. There is no Jesus in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 who goes back to heaven, for seven, or for three and one half years. This idea is being read into the text by Dispensationalist-Futurist teachers, those who are trying to create a second chance for a nation of neo-Pharisees.

Historicist

 

[kingerik]

Read my above post...I don't believe in pre-trib.

 

[kingerik]

Read my above post...I don't believe in pre-trib.

But then again...raised in a pre-trib church. I can see where both can be interpreted, so my goal is to only be ready in what ever way he comes and bring more souls to the kingdom.

 

[Historicist]

You are right the word rapture is not is scripture or at least not in KJV. It is called catching away. Okay, lets say that for humanity sake we call it the same thing, meaning that through time words have changed, there will be a time the Lord comes for you. You must be ready (period). No, well I have to bury my father or my daughter is getting married. You must quickly get ready. Now, how soon is this. If you believe that Isreal becoming a nation in 1948 (is that right?) (Using the ole memory). then 70 years for a generation and you have the LOrd coming back soon. GLORY, GLORY, GLORY~~~

You say "70 years for a generation." When the self named state of Israel was created its admirers said a generation was 40, that "the rapture" would occur in 40 years. It did not, and it will not in 80, because there is no "rapture" of Christians to heaven. When Jesus descends he's here to stay. There is not one verse in scripture describing a Jesus who descends from heaven the second time, but who goes back to heaven, to descend again---a third time! Please, stop reading this idea into these verses, it is not there.

 

[RedTent]

Usually, when people talk of the rapture they are not speaking about the exact timing and ways God will act on His return, but what they THINK scripture says. When they use the phrase "the bible clearly says", watch out! Scholars even got the prophecy about the 70 years of the Babylonian exile incorrect, the 70 applied to the years of the Babylonian Empire itself. We should let God take care of how he will manage the return, and even the years involved.

The final feasts God told us about give the day of the year but nothing about the year. Comparing timing they give, and the timing given on the four feasts that have taken place like Passover and First Fruits, can help us.

God is specific, giving us no reason to question when it is something we need to know, like the new earth and new heavens scripture tells us of. But usually numbers are given symbolically, and when someone says they know exactly what the symbolism is, they are feeding their own ego, not reporting on scripture.

 

[PlainWord]

The Rapture as most believe it is NOT SCRIPTURAL. There is a "Rapture" but it does not involve any living being being translated into a spiritual body where after they are taken to heaven to avoid the coming Great Tribulation.

The Real rapture occurs when the Lord returns (with martyred saints) after the Great Tribulation and He gathers those remaining believers in "clouds." When the Lord returns He remains on earth and reigns for 1,000 years. He does not do a u-turn back to heaven. Christ rules with a rod of iron and puts all enemies under His feet before turning the Kingdom over to the Father. This is the clear teaching which is found in the Bible.

 

[Keren]

I had a friend I do not see much any more because they only cared about the Rapture.
I do not understand this idea, I never learned it.

 

[starfield]

The Real rapture occurs when the Lord returns (with martyred saints) after the Great Tribulation and He gathers those remaining believers in "clouds." When the Lord returns He remains on earth and reigns for 1,000 years. He does not do a u-turn back to heaven.

There’s no coming 1,000-year reign. All of the kingdom passages in the OT have been fulfilled in Christ. Daniel 2:44 and 7:14 says the kingdom will be everlasting, and established during the days of the kings, so how could there be a literal 1,000 year reign yet to come? Also, why is it that the kingdom cannot be destroyed? This is because it's a spiritual kingdom, not an earthly one in Jerusalem.
Daniel 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Daniel 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
Daniel 7:14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

 

[starfield]

Is the Pre-tribulation rapture doctrine biblical? Absolutely not.

 

[PlainWord]

There’s no coming 1,000-year reign. All of the kingdom passages in the OT have been fulfilled in Christ. Daniel 2:44 and 7:14 says the kingdom will be everlasting, and established during the days of the kings, so how could there be a literal 1,000 year reign yet to come? Also, why is it that the kingdom cannot be destroyed? This is because it's a spiritual kingdom, not an earthly one in Jerusalem.
Daniel 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Daniel 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
Daniel 7:14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

I understand why you might think there is no actual tangible 1,000 year reign of Christ on earth but I think you are wrong. Daniel 7:13-14 are yet future. The "kings" you cite from Daniel 2:44 are also future.

Christ has not yet returned but He will soon as we learned from Hosea that there would be a 2,000 year gap between His earthly birth and His Second Coming. We are at approx 6,000 years of Biblical recorded history. An additional 1,000 years is needed for divine completeness so, it makes sense for there to be a 1,000 years of peace under Christ's reign before the final eternal heaven state.