Attack of the Judaizers

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Spokenpassage

Guest
Nope. 9 of the 10 commandments are in the law of Christ. The sabbath is not a part of the law of Christ. I have said this many times.
Yes it is, but the command is about faith in His spiritual rest instead of letting go of physical labor.
 
D

danschance

Guest
So I ask a question and you turn it into me making a definitive statement, the guy who forged my post in his quote. NO SURPRISE.

I quote Messiah and I get called all kinds of wrong, so my question stands: (and if the answer is no, then how is it that one can speak the same doctrine as these verse and they are spoken evil of?)

Originally Posted by Hizikyah

Is the Messiah a "Judaizer?"

Mattithyah 5:19, "Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, he will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh."

Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

Mattithyah 7:23, "But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity."

iniquity is:#0458 ἀνομία anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459

Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

Isayah 42:21, "Yahweh is well-pleased, for His righteousness' sake, to magnify the Law, and make it honorable"

Mattithyah 5:20-30, ""For I say to you: Unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will certainly not enter into the Kingdom of Yahweh. You have heard that it was said by the people of ancient times: You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment; But I say to you: Whoever is angry with his brother will be in danger of the judgment! Again, anyone who says; Raca! insulting your brother, will be in danger of the Sanhedrin, but whoever says: Nabel! desiring them to fall away, will be in danger of the fire of Gehenna. Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar, and there you remember that your brother has something against you; Leave your gift there before the altar, and go first and be reconciled with your brother; then come and offer your gift. Settle a controversy with your accuser quickly, before he gets you into court; or your adversary may deliver you to the judge, the judge deliver you to the officer, and you be put into prison. Truly I say to you: You will never come out of there until you have paid the last penny. You have heard that it was said by the people of ancient times: You shall not commit adultery; But I say to you: Whoever looks on a woman with lust for her, has already committed ladultery with her in his heart. So if your right eye causes you to offend; sin, gouge it out and throw it from you! For it is better for you that one of your members perish, than for the whole body to be cast into Gehenna. Or if your right hand causes you to offend, cut it off and throw it from you! For it is better for you that one of your members perish, than for the whole body to be cast into Gehenna."
Perhaps you are not capable of unerstanding how I view you asking a question about Jesus being a sinner is offensive to me. I love Jesus. I would never consider asking any sort of question that would suggest or imply Jesus is a sinner. All I can do is ask you to not post that again as I view it as blasphemy.
 
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here is a bigger bucket full

(Exo 16:23 KJV) And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.


(Exo 16:25 KJV) And Moses said, Eat that to day; for to day is a sabbath unto the LORD: to day ye shall not find it in the field.


(Exo 16:26 KJV) Six days ye shall gather it; but on the seventh day, which is the sabbath, in it there shall be none.


(Exo 16:29 KJV) See, for that the LORD hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.


(Exo 20:8 KJV) Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.


(Exo 20:10 KJV) But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:


(Exo 20:11 KJV) For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.


(Exo 31:14 KJV) Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.


(Exo 31:15 KJV) Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.


(Exo 31:16 KJV) Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.


(Exo 35:2 KJV) Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.


(Exo 35:3 KJV) Ye shall kindle no fire throughout your habitations upon the sabbath day.


(Lev 16:31 KJV) It shall be a sabbath of rest unto you, and ye shall afflict your souls, by a statute for ever.


(Lev 23:3 KJV) Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.


(Lev 23:11 KJV) And he shall wave the sheaf before the LORD, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the sabbath the priest shall wave it.


(Lev 23:15 KJV) And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete:


(Lev 23:16 KJV) Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the LORD.


(Lev 23:24 KJV) Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation.


(Lev 23:32 KJV) It shall be unto you a sabbath of rest, and ye shall afflict your souls: in the ninth day of the month at even, from even unto even, shall ye celebrate your sabbath.


(Lev 23:39 KJV) Also in the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when ye have gathered in the fruit of the land, ye shall keep a feast unto the LORD seven days: on the first day shall be a sabbath, and on the eighth day shall be a sabbath.


(Lev 24:8 KJV) Every sabbath he shall set it in order before the LORD continually, being taken from the children of Israel by an everlasting covenant.


(Lev 25:2 KJV) Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye come into the land which I give you, then shall the land keep a sabbath unto the LORD.


(Lev 25:4 KJV) But in the seventh year shall be a sabbath of rest unto the land, a sabbath for the LORD: thou shalt neither sow thy field, nor prune thy vineyard.


(Lev 25:6 KJV) And the sabbath of the land shall be meat for you; for thee, and for thy servant, and for thy maid, and for thy hired servant, and for thy stranger that sojourneth with thee,


(Num 15:32 KJV) And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.


(Num 28:9 KJV) And on the sabbath day two lambs of the first year without spot, and two tenth deals of flour for a meat offering, mingled with oil, and the drink offering thereof:


(Num 28:10 KJV) This is the burnt offering of every sabbath, beside the continual burnt offering, and his drink offering.


(Deu 5:12 KJV) Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee.


(Deu 5:14 KJV) But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.


(Deu 5:15 KJV) And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.


(2 Ki 4:23 KJV) And he said, Wherefore wilt thou go to him to day? it is neither new moon, nor sabbath. And she said, It shall be well.


(2 Ki 11:5 KJV) And he commanded them, saying, This is the thing that ye shall do; A third part of you that enter in on the sabbath shall even be keepers of the watch of the king's house;


(2 Ki 11:7 KJV) And two parts of all you that go forth on the sabbath, even they shall keep the watch of the house of the LORD about the king.


(2 Ki 11:9 KJV) And the captains over the hundreds did according to all things that Jehoiada the priest commanded: and they took every man his men that were to come in on the sabbath, with them that should go out on the sabbath, and came to Jehoiada the priest.


(2 Ki 16:18 KJV) And the covert for the sabbath that they had built in the house, and the king's entry without, turned he from the house of the LORD for the king of Assyria.


(1 Chr 9:32 KJV) And other of their brethren, of the sons of the Kohathites, were over the showbread, to prepare it every sabbath.


(2 Chr 23:4 KJV) This is the thing that ye shall do; A third part of you entering on the sabbath, of the priests and of the Levites, shall be porters of the doors;


(2 Chr 23:8 KJV) So the Levites and all Judah did according to all things that Jehoiada the priest had commanded, and took every man his men that were to come in on the sabbath, with them that were to go out on the sabbath: for Jehoiada the priest dismissed not the courses.


(2 Chr 36:21 KJV) To fulfil the word of the LORD by the mouth of Jeremiah, until the land had enjoyed her sabbaths: for as long as she lay desolate she kept sabbath, to fulfil threescore and ten years.


(Neh 9:14 KJV) And madest known unto them thy holy sabbath, and commandedst them precepts, statutes, and laws, by the hand of Moses thy servant:


(Neh 10:31 KJV) And if the people of the land bring ware or any victuals on the sabbath day to sell, that we would not buy it of them on the sabbath, or on the holy day: and that we would leave the seventh year, and the exaction of every debt.


(Neh 13:15 KJV) In those days saw I in Judah some treading wine presses on the sabbath, and bringing in sheaves, and lading asses; as also wine, grapes, and figs, and all manner of burdens, which they brought into Jerusalem on the sabbath day: and I testified against them in the day wherein they sold victuals.


(Neh 13:16 KJV) There dwelt men of Tyre also therein, which brought fish, and all manner of ware, and sold on the sabbath unto the children of Judah, and in Jerusalem.


(Neh 13:17 KJV) Then I contended with the nobles of Judah, and said unto them, What evil thing is this that ye do, and profane the sabbath day?


(Neh 13:18 KJV) Did not your fathers thus, and did not our God bring all this evil upon us, and upon this city? yet ye bring more wrath upon Israel by profaning the sabbath.


(Neh 13:19 KJV) And it came to pass, that when the gates of Jerusalem began to be dark before the sabbath, I commanded that the gates should be shut, and charged that they should not be opened till after the sabbath: and some of my servants set I at the gates, that there should no burden be brought in on the sabbath day.


(Neh 13:21 KJV) Then I testified against them, and said unto them, Why lodge ye about the wall? if ye do so again, I will lay hands on you. From that time forth came they no more on the sabbath.


(Neh 13:22 KJV) And I commanded the Levites that they should cleanse themselves, and that they should come and keep the gates, to sanctify the sabbath day. Remember me, O my God, concerning this also, and spare me according to the greatness of thy mercy.


(Psa 92:1 KJV) A Psalm or Song for the sabbath day. It is a good thing to give thanks unto the LORD, and to sing praises unto thy name, O most High:


(Isa 56:2 KJV) Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.


(Isa 56:6 KJV) Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;


(Isa 58:13 KJV) If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:


(Isa 66:23 KJV) And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.


(Jer 17:21 KJV) Thus saith the LORD; Take heed to yourselves, and bear no burden on the sabbath day, nor bring it in by the gates of Jerusalem;


(Jer 17:22 KJV) Neither carry forth a burden out of your houses on the sabbath day, neither do ye any work, but hallow ye the sabbath day, as I commanded your fathers.


(Jer 17:24 KJV) And it shall come to pass, if ye diligently hearken unto me, saith the LORD, to bring in no burden through the gates of this city on the sabbath day, but hallow the sabbath day, to do no work therein;


(Jer 17:27 KJV) But if ye will not hearken unto me to hallow the sabbath day, and not to bear a burden, even entering in at the gates of Jerusalem on the sabbath day; then will I kindle a fire in the gates thereof, and it shall devour the palaces of Jerusalem, and it shall not be quenched.


(Ezek 46:1 KJV) Thus saith the Lord GOD; The gate of the inner court that looketh toward the east shall be shut the six working days; but on the sabbath it shall be opened, and in the day of the new moon it shall be opened.


(Ezek 46:4 KJV) And the burnt offering that the prince shall offer unto the LORD in the sabbath day shall be six lambs without blemish, and a ram without blemish.


(Ezek 46:12 KJV) Now when the prince shall prepare a voluntary burnt offering or peace offerings voluntarily unto the LORD, one shall then open him the gate that looketh toward the east, and he shall prepare his burnt offering and his peace offerings, as he did on the sabbath day: then he shall go forth; and after his going forth one shall shut the gate.


(Amos 8:5 KJV) Saying, When will the new moon be gone, that we may sell corn? and the sabbath, that we may set forth wheat, making the ephah small, and the shekel great, and falsifying the balances by deceit?
 
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(Mat 12:1 KJV) At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat.


(Mat 12:2 KJV) But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.


(Mat 12:5 KJV) Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?


(Mat 12:8 KJV) For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.


(Mat 12:10 KJV) And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him.


(Mat 12:11 KJV) And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?


(Mat 12:12 KJV) How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.


(Mat 24:20 KJV) But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:


(Mat 28:1 KJV) In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.


(Mark 1:21 KJV) And they went into Capernaum; and straightway on the sabbath day he entered into the synagogue, and taught.


(Mark 2:23 KJV) And it came to pass, that he went through the corn fields on the sabbath day; and his disciples began, as they went, to pluck the ears of corn.


(Mark 2:24 KJV) And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful?


(Mark 2:27 KJV) And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:


(Mark 2:28 KJV) Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.


(Mark 3:2 KJV) And they watched him, whether he would heal him on the sabbath day; that they might accuse him.


(Mark 3:4 KJV) And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.


(Mark 6:2 KJV) And when the sabbath day was come, he began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing him were astonished, saying, From whence hath this man these things? and what wisdom is this which is given unto him, that even such mighty works are wrought by his hands?


(Mark 15:42 KJV) And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath,


(Mark 16:1 KJV) And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.


(Luke 4:16 KJV) And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.


(Luke 4:31 KJV) And came down to Capernaum, a city of Galilee, and taught them on the sabbath days.


(Luke 6:1 KJV) And it came to pass on the second sabbath after the first, that he went through the corn fields; and his disciples plucked the ears of corn, and did eat, rubbing them in their hands.


(Luke 6:2 KJV) And certain of the Pharisees said unto them, Why do ye that which is not lawful to do on the sabbath days?


(Luke 6:5 KJV) And he said unto them, That the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.


(Luke 6:6 KJV) And it came to pass also on another sabbath, that he entered into the synagogue and taught: and there was a man whose right hand was withered.


(Luke 6:7 KJV) And the scribes and Pharisees watched him, whether he would heal on the sabbath day; that they might find an accusation against him.


(Luke 6:9 KJV) Then said Jesus unto them, I will ask you one thing; Is it lawful on the sabbath days to do good, or to do evil? to save life, or to destroy it?


(Luke 13:10 KJV) And he was teaching in one of the synagogues on the sabbath.


(Luke 13:14 KJV) And the ruler of the synagogue answered with indignation, because that Jesus had healed on the sabbath day, and said unto the people, There are six days in which men ought to work: in them therefore come and be healed, and not on the sabbath day.


(Luke 13:15 KJV) The Lord then answered him, and said, Thou hypocrite, doth not each one of you on the sabbath loose his ox or his ass from the stall, and lead him away to watering?


(Luke 13:16 KJV) And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day?


(Luke 14:1 KJV) And it came to pass, as he went into the house of one of the chief Pharisees to eat bread on the sabbath day, that they watched him.

(Luke 14:3 KJV) And Jesus answering spake unto the lawyers and Pharisees, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath day?


(Luke 14:5 KJV) And answered them, saying, Which of you shall have an ass or an ox fallen into a pit, and will not straightway pull him out on the sabbath day?


(Luke 23:54 KJV) And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on.


(Luke 23:56 KJV) And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.


(John 5:9 KJV) And immediately the man was made whole, and took up his bed, and walked: and on the same day was the sabbath.


(John 5:10 KJV) The Jews therefore said unto him that was cured, It is the sabbath day: it is not lawful for thee to carry thy bed.


(John 5:16 KJV) And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.


(John 5:18 KJV) Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.


(John 7:22 KJV) Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers;) and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man.


(John 7:23 KJV) If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?


(John 9:14 KJV) And it was the sabbath day when Jesus made the clay, and opened his eyes.


(John 9:16 KJV) Therefore said some of the Pharisees, This man is not of God, because he keepeth not the sabbath day. Others said, How can a man that is a sinner do such miracles? And there was a division among them.


(John 19:31 KJV) The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.


(Acts 1:12 KJV) Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.


(Acts 13:14 KJV) But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down.


(Acts 13:27 KJV) For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him.


(Acts 13:42 KJV) And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.


(Acts 13:44 KJV) And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.


(Acts 15:21 KJV) For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.


(Acts 16:13 KJV) And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither.


(Acts 17:2 KJV) And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,


(Acts 18:4 KJV) And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.


(Col 2:16 KJV) Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
 
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give me a sunday verse

In heaven there will be only the seventh day Sabbath

when do you plan on changing?
 
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Always ignoring the fact that those Two are the summation of the Ten...
Yes, "summation" says it all.

Rom 13:9 For the commandments, "YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY," "YOU SHALL NOT MURDER," "YOU SHALL NOT STEAL," "YOU SHALL NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS," "YOU SHALL NOT COVET," and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."

They are a brief summary of the Ten Commandments
just as Love is the brief summary of the Two Great Commandments.
Please explain the difference between "summary of the Ten Commandments" and Mt 22:40.
 
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It is all about obedience

what is the big deal with the apple?
One bite no big deal they said.

its called
which army are you in?

you going to go shoot Sabbath keepers when it is open season on them?

It will be...

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman church,
and went to make war with the very few faithful of her seed,
which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

You going to shoot Jews?
Or will you be running with us?
 
S

Spokenpassage

Guest
It is all about obedience

what is the big deal with the apple?
One bite no big deal they said.

its called
which army are you in?

you going to go shoot Sabbath keepers when it is open season on them?

It will be...

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman church,
and went to make war with the very few faithful of her seed,
which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

You going to shoot Jews?
Or will you be running with us?
Up to you whether you want to keep the physical sabbath or not. But the direct command is fulfilled in belief. Whether you go to church on Sunday or Saturday, your faith in the end is what determines where you go.
 
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danschance

Guest
The Ten Commandments are the Law of Christ. He spoke them then He said they would be around after the heavens and earth were gone (Luke 16:17).
You are again twisting scripture to fit your paradigm.
"But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one stroke of a letter of the Law to fail. Luke 16:17
I have said this several times before. Maybe you will get it this time?
Jesus did not come to do away with the law but instead He came to fulfill it. The ceremonial laws in particular have changed (not obliterated). For example circumcision of the foreskin is now circumcision of the heart. Sabbath being rest on saturday is changed to Jesus being our sabbath. and so on. The scripture you cited is not the 10 commandments. It is in reference to all OT law.
16The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John; since that time the gospel of the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is forcing his way into it. "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one stroke of a letter of the Law to fail. Luke 16:17
Please take note of what Jesus said right before verse 17.
 
L

LT

Guest
He was refuting that belief that keeping the Law EARNED salvation. It does not.
But Paul told them to not get circumcised... he literally told them to not follow that part of the Law.

According to what I've heard here, we must continue to follow the Law. Paul said to not follow part of it.
How do we rationalize this?

If you interpret Mat 5:18 to mean that all of the Law is still valid, then Paul is contradicting Scripture. I think some people need to reconsider what Mat 5:18 means.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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I am wondering what Hizi, John, RedTent, etc... believe that Paul was refuting when discussing "Judaizers".

Is circumcision the only thing he was talking about? If so, why are the other related laws not abrogated along with circumcision?
I believe the "judaizers" spoken of in Acts were saying one must do all the Law to enter into following the Messiah aka be saved.

Yet all one has to do is make a sincere confession the Yahshua is the Messiah and they wish to be saved, and Yahweh will pull that person out of the fire.

Again the "judaizers" were trying to enforce all Law and most likely Jewish tradition which is man made upon people coming into the fold.

again :) coming in this is not necessary, once we accep the Messiah we must then turn to obedience to Yahweh/Yahshua, (they both require the same thing, to think otherwise IS FOOLISH, the Messiah does the will of the Father)

Acts 15:20, "But rather, write to them that they abstain from defilements: such as godworship, from all sexual impurity, from that which has been cooked with the blood still in it, and from bloodshed by violence"

its not things "from things strangled" or "strangled with blood"

that dosent even make sense.

what is being said is to enter the "congregation" (cant have demon worshippers in the "sanctuary")

no godworship (no idolotry)

no sexual impurity

from that which has been cooked with the blood still in it (is this an "evil jew law?, or is it "strangled with blood", how does one strangle something with blood? make a "blood rope" and strangle away? or did Paul make up his own new law? no strangling things? "from things strangled"

no bloodshed by violence

I believe he was giving them a little to sanctify themselves in Yahweh without asking too much, not to mention, are there not a ton of other "Laws of Messiah" besides these?

ALSO:

This is how Acts 15:24 reads in the oldest text:

Acts 15:24, "Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you, and unsettled; brought confusion to, your minds through statements which are not authorized by us"
Verses 15:19,20,24 and 29 -- The Emphatic Diaglott by Benjamin Wilson,

The text does not say what the things are, yet years later extra words were forged in, please study this.
 
Jan 13, 2014
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You expect catholics who come to your church to give up their false doctrines of idols but you keep the sunday?
that is weird.
 
D

danschance

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(Mat 12:1 KJV) At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat.


(Mat 12:2 KJV) But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.


(Mat 12:5 KJV) Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?


(Mat 12:8 KJV) For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.


(Mat 12:10 KJV) And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him.


(Mat 12:11 KJV) And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?


(Mat 12:12 KJV) How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.


(Mat 24:20 KJV) But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:


(Mat 28:1 KJV) In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.


(Mark 1:21 KJV) And they went into Capernaum; and straightway on the sabbath day he entered into the synagogue, and taught.


(Mark 2:23 KJV) And it came to pass, that he went through the corn fields on the sabbath day; and his disciples began, as they went, to pluck the ears of corn.


(Mark 2:24 KJV) And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful?


(Mark 2:27 KJV) And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:


(Mark 2:28 KJV) Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.


(Mark 3:2 KJV) And they watched him, whether he would heal him on the sabbath day; that they might accuse him.


(Mark 3:4 KJV) And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.


(Mark 6:2 KJV) And when the sabbath day was come, he began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing him were astonished, saying, From whence hath this man these things? and what wisdom is this which is given unto him, that even such mighty works are wrought by his hands?


(Mark 15:42 KJV) And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath,


(Mark 16:1 KJV) And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.


(Luke 4:16 KJV) And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.


(Luke 4:31 KJV) And came down to Capernaum, a city of Galilee, and taught them on the sabbath days.


(Luke 6:1 KJV) And it came to pass on the second sabbath after the first, that he went through the corn fields; and his disciples plucked the ears of corn, and did eat, rubbing them in their hands.


(Luke 6:2 KJV) And certain of the Pharisees said unto them, Why do ye that which is not lawful to do on the sabbath days?


(Luke 6:5 KJV) And he said unto them, That the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.


(Luke 6:6 KJV) And it came to pass also on another sabbath, that he entered into the synagogue and taught: and there was a man whose right hand was withered.


(Luke 6:7 KJV) And the scribes and Pharisees watched him, whether he would heal on the sabbath day; that they might find an accusation against him.


(Luke 6:9 KJV) Then said Jesus unto them, I will ask you one thing; Is it lawful on the sabbath days to do good, or to do evil? to save life, or to destroy it?


(Luke 13:10 KJV) And he was teaching in one of the synagogues on the sabbath.


(Luke 13:14 KJV) And the ruler of the synagogue answered with indignation, because that Jesus had healed on the sabbath day, and said unto the people, There are six days in which men ought to work: in them therefore come and be healed, and not on the sabbath day.


(Luke 13:15 KJV) The Lord then answered him, and said, Thou hypocrite, doth not each one of you on the sabbath loose his ox or his ass from the stall, and lead him away to watering?


(Luke 13:16 KJV) And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day?


(Luke 14:1 KJV) And it came to pass, as he went into the house of one of the chief Pharisees to eat bread on the sabbath day, that they watched him.

(Luke 14:3 KJV) And Jesus answering spake unto the lawyers and Pharisees, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath day?


(Luke 14:5 KJV) And answered them, saying, Which of you shall have an ass or an ox fallen into a pit, and will not straightway pull him out on the sabbath day?


(Luke 23:54 KJV) And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on.


(Luke 23:56 KJV) And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.


(John 5:9 KJV) And immediately the man was made whole, and took up his bed, and walked: and on the same day was the sabbath.


(John 5:10 KJV) The Jews therefore said unto him that was cured, It is the sabbath day: it is not lawful for thee to carry thy bed.


(John 5:16 KJV) And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.


(John 5:18 KJV) Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.


(John 7:22 KJV) Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers;) and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man.


(John 7:23 KJV) If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?


(John 9:14 KJV) And it was the sabbath day when Jesus made the clay, and opened his eyes.


(John 9:16 KJV) Therefore said some of the Pharisees, This man is not of God, because he keepeth not the sabbath day. Others said, How can a man that is a sinner do such miracles? And there was a division among them.


(John 19:31 KJV) The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.


(Acts 1:12 KJV) Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.


(Acts 13:14 KJV) But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down.


(Acts 13:27 KJV) For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him.


(Acts 13:42 KJV) And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.


(Acts 13:44 KJV) And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.


(Acts 15:21 KJV) For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.


(Acts 16:13 KJV) And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither.


(Acts 17:2 KJV) And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,


(Acts 18:4 KJV) And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.


(Col 2:16 KJV) Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Anyone think this is how to prove an argument or is it to alienate others?
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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You are again twisting scripture to fit your paradigm.

I have said this several times before. Maybe you will get it this time?
Jesus did not come to do away with the law but instead He came to fulfill it. The ceremonial laws in particular have changed (not obliterated). For example circumcision of the foreskin is now circumcision of the heart. Sabbath being rest on saturday is changed to Jesus being our sabbath. and so on. The scripture you cited is not the 10 commandments. It is in reference to all OT law.

Please take note of what Jesus said right before verse 17.
And then tell me why fulfilling means done away. If they are not done away, then why don't you keep them? Oh yeah, you do, someof them anyway. He only came to "fulfill" some of them.
 
H

Hoffco

Guest
To Keren, I read you as a very mature saint in Christ; So, why are you "pretending" to be a babe in Christ,upset over the arguments.? Are you "pretending? and why? Love to all, Hoffco
 
Jan 13, 2014
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Anyone think this is how to prove an argument or is it to alienate others?
in court there is called weight of evidence


let us put all the Sabbath verses here and then all the sunday verses and let us choose the one that has the weight of evidence

this is what they do in court

ok?

so I put up the sabbath verses and you can put up the sunday verses.
 
S

Spokenpassage

Guest
in court there is called weight of evidence


let us put all the Sabbath verses here and then all the sunday verses and let us choose the one that has the weight of evidence

this is what they do in court

ok?

so I put up the sabbath verses and you can put up the sunday verses.
How about you start putting up sabbath verses from the New Testament, and we can post verses that supports Jesus as our sabbath in the New testament?
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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But Paul told them to not get circumcised... he literally told them to not follow that part of the Law.

According to what I've heard here, we must continue to follow the Law. Paul said to not follow part of it.
How do we rationalize this?

If you interpret Mat 5:18 to mean that all of the Law is still valid, then Paul is contradicting Scripture. I think some people need to reconsider what Mat 5:18 means.
But he had Timothy circumcised:

Acts 16:1-3, "Then he came to Derbe and Lystra. And behold, a certain disciple named Timothy was there, the son of a certain Yahdiah woman who was a believer, but his father was a Greek. And he had a righteous reputation among the brothers who were at Lystra and Iconium. Shaul wanted him to go out with him, so he took him and circumcised him because of the Yahdaim who were in that region; for they all knew that his father was a Greek."