Attack of the Judaizers

[Spokenpassage]

You are absolutely sure the Levitical Priesthood is over and done?

Jer 33:19 And the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah, saying,
Jer 33:20 "Thus says the LORD: 'If you can break My covenant with the day and My covenant with the night, so that there will not be day and night in their season,
Jer 33:21 then My covenant may also be broken with David My servant, so that he shall not have a son to reign on his throne, and with the Levites, the priests, My ministers.
Jer 33:22 As the host of heaven cannot be numbered, nor the sand of the sea measured, so will I multiply the descendants of David My servant and the Levites who minister to Me.' "

Perhaps you can tell me when day and night ceased?

If Christ is the High Priest according to the order of Melchizedek, how does the levitical system still stand?

Those verses means that the covenant with David will be cut off from the old covenant. Which it did, because Judaism today cannot receive the blessings through Abraham or David through the Old covenant alone. That's why those other covenants were transferred to the New one since they were perishing with the Old that Israel kept breaking.

They became dead to the Old Mosaic

But alive through Christ's new one

 

[Hoffco]

To danschance, You qouiting on Sunday, The Lord's day, is great. The N.T.is clear; the Sat. Sab. has been changed to Sunday. And it is the symbol of our eternal Sabbath rest. Hoffco

 

[Hizikyah]

you are the one going around and around.

for probably the 10th time today:

Romans 13:9, "For the commandments: You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not bring false testimony, You shall not covet, and all other commandments are briefly summed up in these Laws; namely: You must love your neighbor as yourself."

SO I HAVE A FINAL QUESTION FOR YOU ON THIS MATTER, PLEASE:

which one of these

(You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not bring false testimony, You shall not covet)


can I break and still be keeping

(You must love your neighbor as yourself)


???????????????????????????????????/

all other commandments are briefly summed up in these Laws

Yes, "summed up" says it all.

Will you answer my question?

which one of these

(You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not bring false testimony, You shall not covet)


can I break and still be keeping

(You must love your neighbor as yourself)


???????????????????????????????????

 

[Elin]

How is it so hard to understand

"and all other commandments are briefly summed up in these Laws; namely: You must love your neighbor as yourself"

love your neighbor as yourself sums up the other Laws, dosent destroy them, it contains all other Laws within.

How could the two destroy the ten, the two are the ten.

Why do you keep setting the two against the ten?
Jesus didn't do that.

Christian doctrine doesn't do that.

Straw man.

 

[danschance]

Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against Yahweh, and will wear out the saints of Yahweh, and think to change times and Laws..."

Right, ignore what that article says because you KNOW you are right. Why even read a single line of it, because you can not disprove what is says.

 

[Hizikyah]

Evidence of the Change of Days (Sabbath to Sunday) can be Seen in the NT

The Sabbath Was Changed to Sunday!
But by who?

“Sunday is our mark or authority...the church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact.” Catholic Record of London, Ontario, September 1, 1923.

Exodus 31:13, "Speak also to the children of Israyl, saying; Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for they are a *sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am Yahweh
Who sanctifies you, and makes you holy."

*sign=Word #226, Hebrew Dictionary,Strong's Exhaustive Concordance,
meaning mark, token, sign, consent, flag, evidence of consent.

“Of course the Catholic Church claims that the change (Saturday Sabbath to Sunday) was her act...And the act is a mark of her ecclesiastical authority in religious things.” H.F. Thomas, Chancellor of Cardinal Gibbons

Ezekiyl 20:12, "Moreover, I also gave them My Sabbaths, to be a sign between Me and them, that they might know that I am Yahweh Who sanctifies them."

“Protestants...accept Sunday rather than Saturday as the day for public worship after the Catholic Church made the change...But the Protestant mind does not seem to realize that...In observing the Sunday, they are accepting the authority of the spokesman for the church, the Pope.” Our Sunday Visitor, February 15, 1950.

“Sunday is founded, not of scripture, but on tradition, and is distinctly a Catholic institution. As there is no scripture for the transfer of the day of rest from the last to the first day of the week, Protestants ought to keep their Sabbath on Saturday and thus leave Catholics in full possession of Sunday.” Catholic Record, September 17, 1893.

“It is always somewhat laughable, to see the Protestant churches, in pulpit and legislation, demand the observance of Sunday, of which there is nothing in their Bible.” Peter R. Kraemer, Catholic Church Extension Magazine, USA (1975), Chicago, Illinois, “Under the blessing of the Pope Pius XI”

Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against Yahweh, and will wear out; mentally attack to cause to fall away, the saints of Yahweh, and think to change times and Laws..."
"Times" is word # 2166 - Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar - 1) a set time, time, season

Daniyl 8:12, "And a host was given him against the daily by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practiced, and succeeded."

 

[Hizikyah]

Right, ignore what that article says because you KNOW you are right. Why even read a single line of it, because you can not disprove what is says.

i GREW UP IN THE "CHANGED TO SUNDAY LIE"

CONSTANTINE ORDAINED SUNDAY in honor or sol invictus mithra, which he minted on his coins until he died, KILLED ALL THE REAL FOLLOWERS OF MESSIAH, and now the world wonders after the beast.

At best you are making your own tradition just as the pharisee did, at worst you are standing on your own authority or the authority of the RCC in this change, nowhere is there a single verse Commanding to keep Sunday.

 

[Hizikyah]

Originally Posted by Hizikyah

you are the one going around and around.

for probably the 10th time today:

Romans 13:9, "For the commandments: You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not bring false testimony, You shall not covet, and all other commandments are briefly summed up in these Laws; namely: You must love your neighbor as yourself."

SO I HAVE A FINAL QUESTION FOR YOU ON THIS MATTER, PLEASE:

which one of these

(You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not bring false testimony, You shall not covet)


can I break and still be keeping

(You must love your neighbor as yourself)


???????????????????????????????????/

all other commandments are briefly summed up in these Laws

How could the two destroy the ten, the two are the ten.

Why do you keep setting the two against the ten?
Jesus didn't do that.

Christian doctrine doesn't do that.

Straw man.

against? what, I see your game.

So this is the second time you have cut my question out of your quote and "replied", you really do not want to answer that question?

Spirit and truth, Ms Elin.

Will you answer my question?

which one of these

(You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not bring false testimony, You shall not covet)


can I break and still be keeping

(You must love your neighbor as yourself)


???????????????????????????????????

 

[Elin]

I think it would be better to follow the bible
but you know
the bible IS Jewish

so maybe Judaizing is a good term

The NT doesn't think so (Gal 2:14).

beter than paganizing by following pagan tradition

ok

what would you rather do?

Judaize?
or Paganize?

Neither, I choose Chritianize.

Your thinking could use some Christian expansion.

 

[Hoffco]

To john832 On 70 ad, God "ordered" Gen. Titus to shut down the temple sacrifices of the Jews. GONE FISHING for Gentle converts!! (date, 70ad) Hoffco

 

[Elin]

Hosheyah 4:6, "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I will also reject you, that you will be no priest to Me. Because you have forgotten the Law of Yahweh, I will also forget your children."

Are you saying Jesus forgets the law of God in Mt 22:37-40?

 

[Hoffco]

To Hezikyah, I am not a "lair" I only asked you, "am I right", Please answer,(yes/no) Further more,I would like to know ,Where are you coming from? What "group" do you belong to? Hofco

 

[Elin]

AsI posted my last post, I got about 6 new posts: Therefore I see more clearly as to how the arguments are flowing. To WomanLovesTX.do you accept the N.T,'s changes of the O.T. laws? And to
Elin, Have you thrown out all law keeping? I think Elin will say no. and WomanLoveTX will say, no. Hoffco

You got it right about Elin.

How can one believe Jesus in Mt 22:37-39, or Paul in Gal 5:6, 14; Ro 13:8-10; or Jas 2:8, and do that?

 

[Elin]

inventing a doctrine that says one of the commandments are no more binding makes you antichrist

Jesus doesn't say that in Mt 22:37-40.

 

[Hoffco]

To Hezikyah, I am not a "lair" I only asked you, "am I right", Please answer,(yes/no) Further more,I would like to know ,Where are you coming from? What "group" do you belong to? Hofco

 

[WomanLovesTX]

Evidence of the Change of Days (Sabbath to Sunday) can be Seen in the NT

The New Testament has ample evidence that the seventh day Sabbath is no longer a requirement.

• Rom. 14:5-6, "One man regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Let each man be fully convinced in his own mind. [SUP]6[/SUP] He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God."

The entire section of Rom. 14:1-12 is worth careful study. Nevertheless, the instructions here are that individuals must be convinced in their own minds about which day they observe for the Lord. If the seventh day Sabbath were a requirement, then the choice would not be man's, but God’s.

• Col. 2:16-17, "Therefore let no one act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day— [SUP]17[/SUP] things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ."

Notice here that time sequence mentioned. A festival is yearly. A new moon is monthly. A Sabbath is weekly. No one is to judge in regard to this. The Sabbath is defined as a shadow, the reality is Jesus. Jesus is our Sabbath.

• Acts 20:7, "And on the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul began talking to them, intending to depart the next day, and he prolonged his message until midnight."

The first day of the week is Sunday and this is the day the people gathered. This passage can easily be seen as the church meeting on Sunday. It has two important church functions within it: breaking bread (communion) and a message (preaching). Additionally, Luke did not use the Jewish system of counting days: sundown to sundown. He used the Roman system: midnight to midnight. This is a subtle point that shows the Jewish Sabbath system was not the one utilized by Luke.

• 1 Cor. 16:1-2, "Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I directed the churches of Galatia, so do you also.[SUP] 2[/SUP] On the first day of every week let each one of you put aside and save, as he may prosper, that no collections be made when I come."

Notice here that Paul is directing the churches to meet on the first day of each week and put money aside. It would seem that this is tithing. So, the instructed time for the church to meet is Sunday. Is this an official worship day set up by the church? You decide.

• Rev. 1:10-11, "I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day, and I heard behind me a loud voice like the sound of a trumpet,[SUP] 11[/SUP]saying, "Write in a book what you see, and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Pergamum and to Thyatira and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to Laodicea."

The New Bible Dictionary says regarding the term, ‘The Lord’s Day’ in Revelation 1:10: "This is the first extant occurrence in Christian literature of τῇ κυριακῇ ἡμέρᾳ, "ta kuriaka hamera". The adjectival construction suggests that it was a formal designation of the church’s worship day. As such it certainly appears early in the 2nd century (Ignatius, Epistle to the Magnesians, 1. 67).
In many churches today, the term "The Lord’s Day" is used to designate Sunday, the same as it was in the second century.
I hope this is evidence enough to show you that the Bible does not require that we worship on Saturday. If anything, we have the freedom (Rom. 14:1-12) to worship on the day that we believe we should. And, no one should judge us in regard to the day we keep. We are free in Christ, not under law (Rom. 6:14).

The above text is part of an online article about Sunday and the Sabbath. It can be found here:Why do we worship on Sunday instead of Saturday? | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry

Highly recommend reading https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/...Day_and_the_Seventh_Day_-_A_Sabbath_Study.pdf

This work is in regard to the scriptures in KJV that state "first day of the week". It goes in deep with the original words in Greek. If you know Torah, then you know God's Feast Days. The word "first" can also be "on one". The word "day" is added by KJV transcribers to make it sound better in English language. The word "week" is "Sabbaton, meaning "a Sabbath".

So all the NT KJV scriptures that say "first day of the week" is actually speaking of the Feast of Weeks where one is counting 7 weeks (counting each Sabbath) up to Pentecost/Shavuot, which is actually on the first day of the week.

I am not going to list them all, you can refer back to the article, but here is one example.

Mat 28:1 In the end[SUP](G3796)[/SUP] of the sabbath,[SUP]G4521[/SUP] as it began to dawn G2020 toward G1519 the first [SUP]G3391[/SUP] day( <-word added by transcribers) of the week,[SUP]G4521[/SUP] came G2064 Mary G3137 Magdalene G3094 and G2532 the G3588 other G243 Mary G3137 to see G2334 the G3588 sepulchre. G5028

G3391 - also can mean "ONE"
μία
mia
mee'-ah
Irregular feminine of G1520; one or first: - a (certain), + agree, first, one, X other.

G4521 (not day of the week, but actually counting of the 7 Sabbaths after Feast of Firstfruits)
σάββατον
sabbaton
sab'-bat-on
Of Hebrew origin [H7676]; the Sabbath (that is, Shabbath), or day of weekly repose from secular avocations (also the observance or institution itself); by extension a se'nnight, that is, the interval between two Sabbaths; likewise the plural in all the above applications: - sabbath (day), week.

The meaning therefore for Matthew 28:1 should be this (please look up multiple other translations besides KJV):

YLT Mat 28:1 And on the eve of the sabbaths, at the dawn, toward the first of the sabbaths, came Mary the Magdalene, and the other Mary, to see the sepulchre,

Note, the YLT translation accurately uses plural for the sabbaths.

 

[BradC]

inventing a doctrine that says one of the commandments are no more binding makes you antichrist

Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

that is sad

Inventing what doctrine? You are making a claim so you need to fess up and state the doctrine.

 

[Elin]

He was refuting that belief that keeping the Law EARNED salvation. It does not.

Nope. . .read it again.

Paul was addressing Peter's hypocrisy in drawing back from his freedom in Christ from the law (Gal 2:4)
and yielding to the pressure of the Judaizers, thereby going against what he knew to be right.

You could use some good NT teaching.

 

[BradC]

You ignore all I post and make up your own meaning and thinking and call it MINE.

Your are being dishonest and twisted.

I am not someone who had Paul read to me one in church, I have read the "NT" and studied the history of THOSE times for years, people completely miss what is actually being said because they understand nothing of the times. Narrow is the way, sad to say but there is much more false doctrine than true doctrine in the world, it is telling of those who speak evil of those who promote actually following the Laws of the Most High and have faith in Messiah, SCRIPTURE SAID IT WOULD BE EXACTLY SO:

Revelation 12:17, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went to make war with those who forsook her seed; her seed being those who keep the Laws of Yahweh, and have the testimony of Yahshua Messiah."

1785. entolé
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.

are you on the side of those "keep the Laws of Yahweh, and have the testimony of Yahshua Messiah"

or do you fight against those who do the right thing?

Is there any of the apostle Paul's teachings in the NT church that you do not agree with and are his teachings for both the Jew and the Gentile in Christ who make up the church?

 

[Elin]

I am wondering what Hizi, John, RedTent, etc... believe that
Paul was refuting when discussing "Judaizers".

I believe the "judaizers" spoken of in Acts were saying one must do all the Law to enter into following the Messiah aka be saved.

Paul's reference to Judaizing is in Gal 2:14, not in Acts.

And in Gal 2:14, he is talking about Peter's hypocrisy in not doing what he knew was right because of pressure from the Judaizers regarding the food laws.

It was not about salvation, it was about hypocrisy.