Rebellion

[Misty77]

Working with abused women is a needed ministry. Unfortunately, much of the social work with abused women is done by radical feminists with a very toxic attitude towards men. In some cases, a lot of damage to society is done in the name of not abusing women. Here locally, an organization whose name has something to do with being against abusing women fought against doing away with laws that basically give parental rights to the mother in almost every case of divorce and turn the father into a visitor in the child's life. Politicians and other people are like, "Hey, I'm against abusing women, too." so they back off. The law is unfair and damaging to children.

You've got your own set of experiences and your own backgrounds. Maybe you've had a bad experience with a man or men. Don't project that onto other men. You seem to have a hair trigger. But you've got to stop reading 'abuse' into everything. Accusing a man of wife beating is like accusing a woman of being a whore. It's several notches down from accusing someone of being a child molester. To do something like that based on no evidence like you did is very low class. You need to repent. If you are hanging out with man-haters who think it's okay to do that, you need to consider who you are hanging around with, because it can influence your thinking. You can also do a lot of damage to others, and even yourself going around making accusations like that. A reasonable thing to do would be to humble a little and apologize, and be reconciled to your brother like Matthew 5 says. I'm willing to let by-gones be by-gones. I've said things I've regretted before. If you want to stick to your guns and keep justifying yourself, I'm just asking the Lord to correct you. It's easier and better, though, to settle matters quickly.

You are painting with a pretty broad brush there and using a logical fallacy assuming that if one cares for abused women, that one must also hate men. I'm actually very pro male. God created both genders to work together for his glory.

Because the majority of abuse goes un reported, it's hard to get a good estimate. But most statistics put the percentage of women in the church who suffer abuse between 25-33%. The most conservative numbers are 15% which us still almost 1 out of every six. I'm not some rogue feminist seeing an abuser behind every tree; this is a very real problem. No abuser ever sees himself/herself as such. And the words you use are the same ones used by abusers to justify their actions.

If it quacks like a duck . . .

 

[sandtigeress]

The thought has struck me several times to move to the other end of Canada but my wife refuses. She needs a clean break from her family though. That's the only way she can grow up, become more independent and actually learn to rule her own mind.

Many times I encouraged her to join a ladies gym, join some class in the University etc but no. She wants me to go with her. She lacks confidence and is not a self-starter. I'm her complete opposite. I bicycled through Sweden to Poland when I was 17, I have been to several war zones, worked at ER and Forensic Psych. I'd fly to Mongolia tomorrow alone if someone paid the ticket...

Just a thought from my life.
There is a person in my life , that tells me often,
to think for myself, when i disagree with her, and try to argue, that person a thinks as me as well.
I am then grinning inside, because that person, wants me to have her ideas
instead of those of myself (just because they are the same as someone elses),
so I seldom change my mind, because she is a person, that i am allowed to defy, because she
really wants me to choose myself, even when my ideas are not hers.

Telling someone, to think for herself and (!) more like you, is a mindlock because one can not fullfill this.
That is extremly difficult, when one wants to please that person, because both is not possible.

I am also not someone, who likes to do somewhere alone, where I never was bevor.
So if she is interested in universary cause, why not go with her for some time.
But ask her, if she wants that, or if it is your view, of what a healthy independent woman should do.

She might be a person, who wants to hear more when she is right, instead of ideas about how she needs
to change (exspecially if the change is so profund).

 

[presidente]

You are painting with a pretty broad brush there and using a logical fallacy assuming that if one cares for abused women, that one must also hate men.

That's not what I said at all. I said a lot of the social services for abused women are run by feminists, not all. I didn't even say all feminists were man-haters. But it's clear you have a problem with judging others and hold to a toxic philosophy.

Because the majority of abuse goes un reported, it's hard to get a good estimate. But most statistics put the percentage of women in the church who suffer abuse between 25-33%. The most conservative numbers are 15% which us still almost 1 out of every six.

I have no idea the real numbers, but somehow, I suspect you aren't talking only about women whose husbands hit them. Am I right in guessing that if a man reminds his wife of the Biblical teachings for a wife to submit to her husband or quotes 'even as Sarah obeyed Abraham' to remind her of his role in decision-making that, you would label him as an 'abuser' as well.

Calling all kinds of things 'abuse' is going to eventually cheapen the impact the word 'abuse' has. Eventually society will see through everthing that doesn't line up with Feminist thought in marriage being called 'abuse.' That's not good for dealing with the issue of real abuse.

I'm not some rogue feminist seeing an abuser behind every tree; this is a very real problem. No abuser ever sees himself/herself as such.

Again, more self-justification. I'll ask the Lord to correct you on this whole issue.

Slanderers justify their actions. So do people who hold to ungodly philosophies. In another thread, you associated the idea of a man telling his wife who'd only slept with him three times and 8 months that she was depriving him as husband with 'rape.' It's clear that you hold to some toxic ideas. You need to back away from the diet of feminism and study the word of God without the feminist eyeglasses.

Really think about it. I suggest a man take his wife, whose in a potentially abusive situation, to somewhere like Saudi Arabia to focus on the marriage. You accuse me of being abusive based on that. That's really messed up thinking.

And the words you use are the same ones used by abusers to justify their actions.

The problem is, you have a really big bucket for abusive language. You use the same type of language that abusers use, too. And your sin of slander is open for all who read the thread to see.

You also need to consider these two conflicting world views you are holding to. You have a set of criteria for what is abusive language. If you read the Bible though, without redefining words to mean something they did not mean in the at the time the book was written, would your philosophy label Moses, Paul, and even God Himself to be 'abusive.' God gave a young woman's father the right to marry her off. If I'm 'abusive' for suggesting finding an expat assignment to Saudi Arabia because Saudi Arabia is restrictive on women's rights, then what about God who gave fathers such power over women? You should re-evaluate your definition of abuse.

If it quacks like a duck . . .

What if it quacks like someone who has issues with men?

 

[Misty77]

Ok, I'm done playing with my food now. Ignore button FTW!

 

[Markus75]

Just a thought from my life.
There is a person in my life , that tells me often,
to think for myself, when i disagree with her, and try to argue, that person a thinks as me as well.
I am then grinning inside, because that person, wants me to have her ideas
instead of those of myself (just because they are the same as someone elses),
so I seldom change my mind, because she is a person, that i am allowed to defy, because she
really wants me to choose myself, even when my ideas are not hers.

Telling someone, to think for herself and (!) more like you, is a mindlock because one can not fullfill this.
That is extremly difficult, when one wants to please that person, because both is not possible.

I am also not someone, who likes to do somewhere alone, where I never was bevor.
So if she is interested in universary cause, why not go with her for some time.
But ask her, if she wants that, or if it is your view, of what a healthy independent woman should do.

She might be a person, who wants to hear more when she is right, instead of ideas about how she needs
to change (exspecially if the change is so profund).

Sandtigeress,

I understand what you mean. I believe my wife needs to take small steps forward. She needs encouragement. I'm a very choleic and assertive person and especially now after going through all kinds of drama, I have not given much though to trying to be kind and bless her etc. But soon. I need to cool down first, rebuild my own life, then it will be easier to help her. But I will never compromise me being the head of our new family.

 

[Markus75]

Presidente, I don't want my wife as a roommate or even in the same house as me. She needs full deliverance first and then we both have to go to marriage counselling. I have moved in and out in and out in and out for 4.5 years. She has to be fully delivered. She has called the police twice just for fun. She involved socialworkers and gets mad later on because they come to visit us or we have to go there. She is not mature and definately not free but is learning through consequences.

I'm going back to school and refuse to lose my studies again because of my demonized wife. I want her to go through lots of hardship so she will understand her own actions and what they lead to. I know there is a reason that she is moving out from her sick family, she must be fed up with them. Still, I will help her and support her but not move in with her before she gets set free and agrees to counselling.

 

[presidente]

Presidente, I don't want my wife as a roommate or even in the same house as me. She needs full deliverance first and then we both have to go to marriage counselling. I have moved in and out in and out in and out for 4.5 years. She has to be fully delivered. She has called the police twice just for fun. She involved socialworkers and gets mad later on because they come to visit us or we have to go there. She is not mature and definately not free but is learning through consequences.

I'm going back to school and refuse to lose my studies again because of my demonized wife. I want her to go through lots of hardship so she will understand her own actions and what they lead to. I know there is a reason that she is moving out from her sick family, she must be fed up with them. Still, I will help her and support her but not move in with her before she gets set free and agrees to counselling.

Some people may improve after counseling if the counselor has good things to say, especially the word of God, and the counselee is open to it. Her improving is an area where you have to put your trust in the Lord. If she repents and is devoted to prayer, and spends time in prayer every day with you, that may do her more good than counseling, and it's easier to do that under the same roof. If you were living in another country, that could save you problems with social services, since probably most countries do not have such departments. I don't know about your country, but if she is filing false reports, you could easily end up with a black mark on your record due to her false allegations or even get hauled off to jail. Those are some things to be careful about.

 

[Markus75]

Some people may improve after counseling if the counselor has good things to say, especially the word of God, and the counselee is open to it. Her improving is an area where you have to put your trust in the Lord. If she repents and is devoted to prayer, and spends time in prayer every day with you, that may do her more good than counseling, and it's easier to do that under the same roof. If you were living in another country, that could save you problems with social services, since probably most countries do not have such departments. I don't know about your country, but if she is filing false reports, you could easily end up with a black mark on your record due to her false allegations or even get hauled off to jail. Those are some things to be careful about.

I believe that prior to counselling my wife will need deliverance. Otherwise counselling will not work. She is now looking for her own apartment and that is a step in the right direction. I personally have an aversion to social workers and it takes a lot of focus and discipline to remain humble in front of them. 2 Years ago I spent a weekend in fasting and cried out to The Lord to give us favor and end this mess with authorities, the social worker got fired and instead a 55-year old born again male worker took our case! Somehow, bitter feminists and man haters always make their way with their hidden biased agenda into these ministries. Vancouver is full of them.

 

[Lucy68]

Wow, praying for you and your wife. What a dilemma. Her mom sounds like a very domineering woman who has totally controlled and manipulated her family members, while at the same time, maintaining that she is a Christian.

There's a woman in our church who I have tried to help with some of her ministry projects but finally decided that she was a wolf in sheep's clothing....she lied and manipulated to fulfill her own agenda while appearing to be a loving and caring person. I will not question her salvation but I can judge her fruits and they are healthy on the outside while rotten on the inside. I decided it's best for me not to be around her; not out of revenge but because she is simply not a healthy person to be involved with. Plus, when her lies and deceit become exposed, I don't want people to think that I was a part of them.

It does look like your wife is battling her mother's influence along with her cultural upbringing. This can be very hard and I commend you on your understanding of her conflict! Yes, she needs to put some good distance between her and her mom and work on her relationship with Christ and with you. I'm sure she appreciates your patience even if she doesn't tell you this. Your prayers for her eyes and ears to be opened are probably having more effect than you know.

I think your communicating your love for her along with your firm guidelines about how your marriage will operate under God's guidance and mandates will ultimately bear good fruit. Your working in cooperation with the Holy Spirit will pay off! But you need to get rid of anger and resentment. Nothing quenches the Holy Spirit like these do. Try to have compassion for your mother-in-law for her lack of understanding and compassion. It can be very frustrating when a very controlling person tries to control everybody and everything like they know it all and nobody else is capable. But we must take this bitterness to God. He is the only one that can change that person and they really do need our prayers on their behalf.

Yes, do get on with your own life (not with other women) but maintain an openness toward your wife. I have a feeling when she sees you enjoying your life and being happy in any circumstance, she will be greatly attracted to a life free from manipulation and pettiness. Your Christ-filled spirit will draw her . This does need to be of her own choosing but she needs your encouragement and patience.

There is the possibility that she may not be able to make that leap but at least you will know that you tried. Stay close to God and He will let you know when it is time to release her and move on.

 

[presidente]

I believe that prior to counselling my wife will need deliverance. Otherwise counselling will not work. She is now looking for her own apartment and that is a step in the right direction.

One way people get delivered is when a believer casts demons out of them. But that is not the only way.

II Timothy 2
25 Opponents must be gently instructed, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth,26 and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.
(NIV)

Your wife can also be set free by hearing teaching of the word of God if she comes to her senses. In your own home, is it more likely that she will hear the word of God and be freed than in your mothers? If your wife has a problem with demons, is it your responsibility to take care of her, or her mother's? If it were me, I'd be thinking of this as part of my responsibility to 'provide for my own.'

Things may not be perfect before you put your house back together.

I personally have an aversion to social workers and it takes a lot of focus and discipline to remain humble in front of them. 2 Years ago I spent a weekend in fasting and cried out to The Lord to give us favor and end this mess with authorities, the social worker got fired and instead a 55-year old born again male worker took our case! Somehow, bitter feminists and man haters always make their way with their hidden biased agenda into these ministries. Vancouver is full of them.

I can see how that would be a huge problem. If a household functions according to God's word, some people with this philosophy would find fault and try to cause trouble. I am happy to hear how things worked out for you. Many people call evil good and good evil these days, and the problem effects churches, too.

 

[Markus75]

If it was'nt for our daughter I would have kicked my retard wife back to her sick family. The only reason today to keep a good relation to her is because she is a mother and if she sniffs divorce in the air then she will do her best together with her sick false christian hindu family to ostacize me and keep my daughter in bondage away from me.

I'm alone in this country of femists, socialists and people more inteested in political correcteness than the word of God.

Sometimes I still plan revenge. Those days I have to go out jogging for 2 hours to calm down. I'm tempted to ty dating on a christian website.

Good thing with this website is that I get some of my thoughts out of my head instead of internalizing.

 

[Lucy68]

If it was'nt for our daughter I would have kicked my retard wife back to her sick family. The only reason today to keep a good relation to her is because she is a mother and if she sniffs divorce in the air then she will do her best together with her sick false christian hindu family to ostacize me and keep my daughter in bondage away from me.

I'm alone in this country of femists, socialists and people more inteested in political correcteness than the word of God.

Sometimes I still plan revenge. Those days I have to go out jogging for 2 hours to calm down. I'm tempted to ty dating on a christian website.

Good thing with this website is that I get some of my thoughts out of my head instead of internalizing.

I can see why you have resentment but calling your wife a 'retard' is not going to help your situation. Remember we're not battling flesh and blood (people) but spirits. When you can see the real battle going on...for people's souls...you will be able, with God's help, to have victory in your life. Bitterness and resentment will prevent the Holy Spirit from working.

Do you attend church or know of a group of Christians that you can fellowship with? Hearing God's Word preached is highly motivating and enlightening...a wonderful encouragement when you're in a dark place ( or not ).

 

[Markus75]

I can see why you have resentment but calling your wife a 'retard' is not going to help your situation. Remember we're not battling flesh and blood (people) but spirits. When you can see the real battle going on...for people's souls...you will be able, with God's help, to have victory in your life. Bitterness and resentment will prevent the Holy Spirit from working.

Do you attend church or know of a group of Christians that you can fellowship with? Hearing God's Word preached is highly motivating and enlightening...a wonderful encouragement when you're in a dark place ( or not ).

Lucy68,

I understand what you're saying. Bitterness took several years of my life. I have a christian fellowship that I attend and they are curious about my past. I don't dare to mention my wife. This far few have believed me but many have fallen victims for my wifes slander and manipulation. Especially other women.

It feels like I have to stay in the shadows. I hate it. Tired of being alone too. Contacted my wife but she still lives in the same lies. Her mother speaks through her. So does the hindu brother in law.

I'm moving on. Still I don't know if I will commit a sin marrying another woman after divorcing this one. Can't get into any kind of important jobs or ministry either. My current wife would ruin it. After awhile the demons that torment her would pop up and spreading lies, gossip and slander. She loves it.

 

[presidente]

I'm moving on. Still I don't know if I will commit a sin marrying another woman after divorcing this one. Can't get into any kind of important jobs or ministry either. My current wife would ruin it. After awhile the demons that torment her would pop up and spreading lies, gossip and slander. She loves it.

The Bible teaches against divorcing your wife and marrying another. Slander and demon possession are not grounds for it.

I was thinking of something you wrote earlier about the conditions under which you would get back with her. What I was thinking though, is that if your wife is demonized, why shouldn't she be demonized in your home rather than her relatives. You are responsible for her now after all.

I agree you should not call her a retard, or 'raca' or 'thou fool'.

 

[CRC]

Grounds for Separation
Paul’s words at 1 Corinthians 7:10-16 encourage marriage mates to stay together. Yet, some, after trying very hard to preserve their marriage relationship, have finally decided that, in all conscience, they have no choice but to separate. What may be the grounds for such a step?
Willful nonsupport is one basis for separation. When entering wedlock, a husband assumes the responsibility of providing for his wife and any children they may have. The man who does not provide for members of his household “has disowned the faith and is worse than a person without faith.” (1 Timothy 5:8) So separation is possible if there is willful nonsupport. Of course, appointed elders should give careful consideration to an accusation that a Christian is refusing to support his wife and family.
Extreme physical abuse is another basis for separation. Suppose an unbelieving mate often gets drunk, becomes enraged, and causes the believer physical harm. (Proverbs 23:29-35

Absolute endangerment of spirituality also provides a basis for separation. The believer in a religiously divided home should do everything possible to take advantage of God’s spiritual provisions. But separation is allowable if an unbelieving mate’s opposition (perhaps including physical restraint) makes it genuinely impossible to pursue true worship and actually imperils the believer’s spirituality.

 

[Markus75]

Grounds for Separation
Paul’s words at 1 Corinthians 7:10-16 encourage marriage mates to stay together. Yet, some, after trying very hard to preserve their marriage relationship, have finally decided that, in all conscience, they have no choice but to separate. What may be the grounds for such a step?
Willful nonsupport is one basis for separation. When entering wedlock, a husband assumes the responsibility of providing for his wife and any children they may have. The man who does not provide for members of his household “has disowned the faith and is worse than a person without faith.” (1 Timothy 5:8) So separation is possible if there is willful nonsupport. Of course, appointed elders should give careful consideration to an accusation that a Christian is refusing to support his wife and family.
Extreme physical abuse is another basis for separation. Suppose an unbelieving mate often gets drunk, becomes enraged, and causes the believer physical harm. (Proverbs 23:29-35

Absolute endangerment of spirituality also provides a basis for separation. The believer in a religiously divided home should do everything possible to take advantage of God’s spiritual provisions. But separation is allowable if an unbelieving mate’s opposition (perhaps including physical restraint) makes it genuinely impossible to pursue true worship and actually imperils the believer’s spirituality.

Presidente and CRC,

thank you for your replies and the Bible quotes. I am praying for guidance. When talking to my wife on the phone she tells me that she wants us to move together. When I agree to it on the condition that her family are not allowed to our home, she changes her mind. She doesn't even want to come to the church I'm a member off. Her family lives 10 minutes drive away from my place.

I'm 38 already. I see no other solution than divorce. I know that I have a calling from God. My wife and her family would ruin it. They want to be in charge and me to submit to them. I have not been called as a christian husband to follow and submit to my wifes mother and their hindu brother in law.

I will file fo divorce.

 

[presidente]

Presidente and CRC,

thank you for your replies and the Bible quotes. I am praying for guidance. When talking to my wife on the phone she tells me that she wants us to move together. When I agree to it on the condition that her family are not allowed to our home, she changes her mind. She doesn't even want to come to the church I'm a member off. Her family lives 10 minutes drive away from my place.

I'm 38 already. I see no other solution than divorce. I know that I have a calling from God. My wife and her family would ruin it. They want to be in charge and me to submit to them. I have not been called as a christian husband to follow and submit to my wifes mother and their hindu brother in law.

I will file fo divorce.

I don't know your situation, but I sure can't follow the logic of your argument here. The Bible doesn't say having a controlling mother-in-law and Hindu brother-in-law are grounds for divorce either. If you divorce her for that and remarry, it's adultery.

You had a big argument with your in-laws and a lot of other problems. Why don't you bury the hatchet with them? Why not just make up with them. It is not normal to have a rule that your wife's folks can't visit her in your home. My wife's folks can be difficult. I've got the whole cross-cultural thing going on, and there expectations make no sense to me at times. But I'm not going to say they aren't welcome.

Instead of giving her ground rules like that,that she can only move in if she does this and that, just have her move in, and then deal with the situation from a stronger position-- the position of a united home and reconciled marriage. If her folks start trying to control, you have to politely assert yourself and your position as husband. If they try to make it out like she isn't honoring her mother about some decision, have a conversation with your dad where he disagrees. You'd be following your father. In India, doesn't the wife have to follow the husband and become a part of his household?

Ideally, you need to get your wife on your team, where she stands up with you against the brother-in-law and if necessary the mother-in-law in making decisions. That may not be easy, but that's your challenge. If her marriage is a safe loving situation, and her situation with these other relatives is oppressive chaos, she's more likely to stick with you. You also need to be setting the tone where it is clear that marriage is a life-time commitment. Her living elsewhere isn't an option. It's not a matter of you two staying married if things work out. You are committed and you will work things out. If you communicate that to her consistently through what you do or say, the marriage will be less up in the air. If you aren't sure the marriage will work out, why would she attach herself to you instead of her relatives. That's a risky thing to do, not only financially, but also emotionally.

Just think about it. If she has to dump her mom and brother-in-law and cut them off to live with you, but you aren't giving her a solid life-long commitment, your asking her to burn her bridge to cross over into a raving forest fire. The logical thing is to stay where she is. Her mother probably doesn't threaten to 'divorce' her as a daughter. Your ultimatum that she not have her folks over sounds like an unreasonable ultimatum to me. Are you subconsciously trying to sabatage the relationship to avoid drama and make some kind of resolution to the problem.

Also, think about Rehoboam in the Bible. His father Solomon had put a heavy burden on the people, and when he died, the people would accept his son's kingship if he lightened the load. The old men told him to speak kindly to the people this once, and they would serve him forever. The young men gave him this advice.

I Kings 12
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And the young men that were grown up with him spake unto him, saying, Thus shalt thou speak unto this people that spake unto thee, saying, Thy father made our yoke heavy, but make thou it lighter unto us; thus shalt thou say unto them, My little finger shall be thicker than my father's loins.

[SUP]11 [/SUP]And now whereas my father did lade you with a heavy yoke, I will add to your yoke: my father hath chastised you with whips, but I will chastise you with scorpions.


Of course we know the other tribes besides Judah (and much of Levi) left Rehoboam, part of a larger plan the LORD had for Israel.

When you are talking to your wife to get her home, talk to her kindly. Go into it with a mindset that you'll work things out with her family. You can ask your wife for loyalty to you over her family now that you are married. But go into it with a mindset to reconcile with all relatives but to be at peace. They can't control you or her, but you want peace and a good relationship with everyone.

Putting a bunch of heavy rules on her relationship that shut out her mom isn't a wise way, IMO, to reconcile. Yes, you want her on your team now that you are married, not following everything her mom says, not controlled by her mother. But you can't ask for something so radical. And not having your in-laws in your home is pretty radical.

Btw, if you can't deal with her family, another way to handle it is to get her back in the house, then quickly find a job far away where her folks won't follow that's a great opportunity for you and your family.

You keep talking about demons being involved. I think demons are involved in a lot of things. But unless she's a raving demoniac who is unaware of what she's doing, I don't think demons should be your focus. One way to overcome demonic power is through learning and applying the word of God. If she's not foaming at the mouth or having demons manifest while she blacks out, I wouldn't obsess over that if I were you. Of course, if she were participating in idolatry, that's fellowship with demons, and a major concern. But if not, the Bible says resist the Devil and he will flee from you.

I've also read that Christian couples who pray together regularly have a very low rate of divorce, less than 1%. If she won't move in with you just yet, you could meet with her regularly for prayer to pray about your concerns.

I don't see why you want to file for divorce. If things aren't working out yet, you can still keep the doors wide open by staying legally married and work toward reconciling. If emotionally that doesn't satisfy you, don't make permanent decisions to satisfy temporary problems. In this case the temporary problem would be emotional dissatisfaction. Do you want your wife marrying some other guy, sleeping with him, your daughter calling him daddy? Why would you want that?

 

[Markus75]

I don't know your situation, but I sure can't follow the logic of your argument here. The Bible doesn't say having a controlling mother-in-law and Hindu brother-in-law are grounds for divorce either. If you divorce her for that and remarry, it's adultery.

You had a big argument with your in-laws and a lot of other problems. Why don't you bury the hatchet with them? Why not just make up with them. It is not normal to have a rule that your wife's folks can't visit her in your home. My wife's folks can be difficult. I've got the whole cross-cultural thing going on, and there expectations make no sense to me at times. But I'm not going to say they aren't welcome.

Instead of giving her ground rules like that,that she can only move in if she does this and that, just have her move in, and then deal with the situation from a stronger position-- the position of a united home and reconciled marriage. If her folks start trying to control, you have to politely assert yourself and your position as husband. If they try to make it out like she isn't honoring her mother about some decision, have a conversation with your dad where he disagrees. You'd be following your father. In India, doesn't the wife have to follow the husband and become a part of his household?

Ideally, you need to get your wife on your team, where she stands up with you against the brother-in-law and if necessary the mother-in-law in making decisions. That may not be easy, but that's your challenge. If her marriage is a safe loving situation, and her situation with these other relatives is oppressive chaos, she's more likely to stick with you. You also need to be setting the tone where it is clear that marriage is a life-time commitment. Her living elsewhere isn't an option. It's not a matter of you two staying married if things work out. You are committed and you will work things out. If you communicate that to her consistently through what you do or say, the marriage will be less up in the air. If you aren't sure the marriage will work out, why would she attach herself to you instead of her relatives. That's a risky thing to do, not only financially, but also emotionally.

Just think about it. If she has to dump her mom and brother-in-law and cut them off to live with you, but you aren't giving her a solid life-long commitment, your asking her to burn her bridge to cross over into a raving forest fire. The logical thing is to stay where she is. Her mother probably doesn't threaten to 'divorce' her as a daughter. Your ultimatum that she not have her folks over sounds like an unreasonable ultimatum to me. Are you subconsciously trying to sabatage the relationship to avoid drama and make some kind of resolution to the problem.

Also, think about Rehoboam in the Bible. His father Solomon had put a heavy burden on the people, and when he died, the people would accept his son's kingship if he lightened the load. The old men told him to speak kindly to the people this once, and they would serve him forever. The young men gave him this advice.

I Kings 12
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And the young men that were grown up with him spake unto him, saying, Thus shalt thou speak unto this people that spake unto thee, saying, Thy father made our yoke heavy, but make thou it lighter unto us; thus shalt thou say unto them, My little finger shall be thicker than my father's loins.

[SUP]11 [/SUP]And now whereas my father did lade you with a heavy yoke, I will add to your yoke: my father hath chastised you with whips, but I will chastise you with scorpions.


Of course we know the other tribes besides Judah (and much of Levi) left Rehoboam, part of a larger plan the LORD had for Israel.

When you are talking to your wife to get her home, talk to her kindly. Go into it with a mindset that you'll work things out with her family. You can ask your wife for loyalty to you over her family now that you are married. But go into it with a mindset to reconcile with all relatives but to be at peace. They can't control you or her, but you want peace and a good relationship with everyone.

Putting a bunch of heavy rules on her relationship that shut out her mom isn't a wise way, IMO, to reconcile. Yes, you want her on your team now that you are married, not following everything her mom says, not controlled by her mother. But you can't ask for something so radical. And not having your in-laws in your home is pretty radical.

Btw, if you can't deal with her family, another way to handle it is to get her back in the house, then quickly find a job far away where her folks won't follow that's a great opportunity for you and your family.

You keep talking about demons being involved. I think demons are involved in a lot of things. But unless she's a raving demoniac who is unaware of what she's doing, I don't think demons should be your focus. One way to overcome demonic power is through learning and applying the word of God. If she's not foaming at the mouth or having demons manifest while she blacks out, I wouldn't obsess over that if I were you. Of course, if she were participating in idolatry, that's fellowship with demons, and a major concern. But if not, the Bible says resist the Devil and he will flee from you.

I've also read that Christian couples who pray together regularly have a very low rate of divorce, less than 1%. If she won't move in with you just yet, you could meet with her regularly for prayer to pray about your concerns.

I don't see why you want to file for divorce. If things aren't working out yet, you can still keep the doors wide open by staying legally married and work toward reconciling. If emotionally that doesn't satisfy you, don't make permanent decisions to satisfy temporary problems. In this case the temporary problem would be emotional dissatisfaction. Do you want your wife marrying some other guy, sleeping with him, your daughter calling him daddy? Why would you want that?

Presidente,

I am reading your post and probably have to read it a couple of times. Believe me I took the step to burying the hatchet several times. Only thing that happenened was they tried to bribe me with food and then they think it's ok for them to take over, again..........................

The one who keeps the backdoor open to our marriage for other influences is my wife. She enjoys it. I had a christian brother confess to me after two years of avoidance. He simple could not look me in the eyes but told me that he drove my wife on her request to social services of Canada and slandered me as much of possible. What in his and the social workers opinion was remarkable was the grin of joy she had on her face when she painted me black and verbally back stabbed me, once, twice, in the CANADIAN churches of naive non-discerning people.

For the fifth time she pretends that she wants me back(everybody has stopped listening to her and she is looking for new sympathisers).

In order for me to be a dad and somewhat function emotionally, I have to limit my contact with her and be cunning. But I can't live alone rest of my life.

She is from an Island of animism, voodoo, islam, hinduism, curses, witchdoctors etc. Except for Papua Guinea some of the last Cannibals lived there. Her family never dealt with any of it. "If you put a T-Shirt on a monkey, it's still a monkey".

 

[presidente]

Markus75,

The advice I give is from trying to put myself in your shoes based on what you've shared. For me, the idea of not having a wife to love me, care for me, be a family with me and my kids is a dreary idea. And the idea of not having female attention and comfort, including the sexual aspect, is a bleak one. Also, the idea of sinning against the Lord by committing adultery is unacceptable. If I were in a marriage that had gotten started be a remarriage the Bible calls adulterous, I don't know if I could continue in it with a clean conscience. I wouldn't want to be in that kind of limbo in my life. If I were gifted with celibacy and content with that, that would be fine, I suppose.

So if I were in your situation, I'd be trying to preserve the marriage. If your wife had someone badmouth you to social services, I can definitely see how that would hurt you. A friend of mine once passed on some information he'd heard someone involved in marriage counseling, I think it was, say. If spouses 'hate' each other, there is still hope for the marriage. If someone is apathetic, that's when it's really dangerous. Anger, etc. shows emotional investment. From what you've shared in the thread, it sounds like you've got a bit of a temper in dealing with people. Maybe you said some hurtful things, and she reacted with bitterness and vindictiveness. That's not right. But it's not something that can be forgiven and overcome if both parties are willing. Maybe she's a bad person, but aren't we all? We are all fallen. What is good in us comes from grace.

I know some people from the island of New Guinea. One of them has planted churches and reached out to people in some of the really tough places on earth, ministering the gospel. Christ is powerful enough to redeem people from animistic and pagan backgrounds. Germanic tribes used to drink out of human skulls if you go back far enough, and engage in all kinds of pagan rituals.

If she wants you back, I can understand your urge to set boundaries or even give conditions. One question to ask is whether Jesus would do that, set the kinds of conditions you would. Another is to ask whether you have the right to ask such things. If you ask her to do things that she considers are immoral-- cut off her mom-- then how can she do that? The Bible says to honor your father and mother. On the other hand, if you want to be 'cunning', then there are ways to do that, like finding a job far away and having her reconcile by coming to be with you. I got persecuted a bit for the Saudi Arabia suggestion. It wouldn't have to be that extreme to physically put some distance between your family and your wife's family. As far as demons go, if you are her husband, why should her getting delivered from demons happen in her relatives house--with your daughter living there-- rather than in your own. I believe in casting out demons, but if they aren't raving demoniacs, a lot of times deliverance happens by resisting the devil. For believers, getting out of Satan's grip can be a matter of learning and obeying Christ's word. If your daughter lives with your wife, and you think their house is full of demons, think about that. For her sake, wouldn't it make sense to get her and her mother in your home, deal with the demonic issues, and eventually have a house not over-run with demonic influence for your daughter's sake, for her to grow up in. If your daughter lives with your mother-in-law, how is that going to work out for her? Legally, how likely is the scenario of you getting full custody? If I were in your shoes, I'd probably see the only options as reconciling with the wife's family members to some extent at least, reconciling with the wife, getting the wife and daughter back home, and possibly, if necessary, putting some physical distance between my family and hers, using work as a means/excuse for doing so. In the meantime, you'll have to build your relationship with your wife and work on loyalty issues so she'll be loyal to you, in addition to other spiritual issues. With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.

As far as divorce goes, it opens up the door for her to find someone else and for someone else to call your daughter daddy. I don't know about your wife's culture. If it's allowed at all, she may have relatives pushing that option on her shortly after the divorce. That's something to consider as well. Staying separated and being in relationship limbo is uncomfortable, but it leaves the door open for reconciliation and keeps the door closed, somewhat, to daddy 2 coming in. If there is a step-dad in the picture, there may be more motivation on their end to shut you out of your daughter's life. If you have some power now to push for reconciliation, go for it. Something else to keep in mind about demons. You know they don't only 'posses' people. I believe they tempt people to sin, and to make the wrong choices. You really need to pray about your decisions. Biblically, if your wife wants to reconcile, do you have much ground for saying no? Why say no? Unforgiveness over the backstabbing? Fear? Fear that things won't work out? When you make your decisions, trust God to work mightily. If you walk closely with Him, wouldn't it be wonderful if he could use you... and your wife.. to truly win her family members to repentance.